gillan1220
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I've been depressed recently. Slow replies coming in the next few days.
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Post by gillan1220 on Dec 12, 2020 14:00:31 GMT
Credits to CDR Mark R. Condeno of the Defense of the Republic of the Philippines for posting these. I was doing my research about ships and coastal defense capabilities of the Philippines. From the 1950s to the 1990s to even present day, several ships, submarines, cruisers, and even maritime patrol planes were offered to the Philippine Navy. Unfortunately, the Marcos dictatorship caused economic problems for the country from the 1970s to the 1980s. It continued to be felt well into the 21st century. Because of these, none of these acquisitions did not push through. These are the following planned procurements that never pushed through:- HMS Lion (C34), a Minotaur-class light cruiser
- HMS Blake (C99), a Tiger-class light cruiser
- USS Mackerel (SS-204), a Mackerel-class submarine
- Destroyer acquisition project: Fletcher-class, Allen M. Summer-class, and the Gearing-class
- 2 x guided missile frigates/guided missile destroyer escort: Brooke-class
- 3 x Diesel submarines
- German Type 206 submarine
- 5 x unnamed training submarines
- 6 x P-3 Orion maritime patrol/ASW aircraft
- 18 x S-2G Tracker ASW aircraft
- BGM-84 Harpoon anti-ship missiles
Modern Day planned procurements that didn't materialize:- Phalanx CIWS
- 3 x Oliver Hazard Perry-class frigates
- Adelaide-class frigate
- Kilo-class submarine
- Maestrale-class frigate
- Incheon-class frigate
Had these pushed through especially during the Cold War, the Philippines would have been in par with its Southeast Asian neighbors. At this period, countries such as Indonesia, Malaysia, Taiwan, and Thailand were already operating American or British second hand destroyers, cruisers, and submarines. The biggest change in East Asian affairs would be felt in the 1990s and the 21st century as China would not bully the Philippines with these capable equipment at hands. |
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Dec 12, 2020 14:03:51 GMT
Credits to CDR Mark R. Condeno of the Defense of the Republic of the Philippines for posting these. I was doing my research about ships and coastal defense capabilities of the Philippines. From the 1950s to the 1990s to even present day, several ships, submarines, cruisers, and even maritime patrol planes were offered to the Philippine Navy. Unfortunately, the Marcos dictatorship caused economic problems for the country from the 1970s to the 1980s. It continued to be felt well into the 21st century. Because of these, none of these acquisitions did not push through. These are the following planned procurements that never pushed through:- HMS Lion (C34), a Minotaur-class light cruiser
- HMS Blake (C99), a Tiger-class light cruiser
- USS Mackerel (SS-204), a Mackerel-class submarine
- Destroyer acquisition project: Fletcher-class, Allen M. Summer-class, and the Gearing-class
- 2 x guided missile frigates/guided missile destroyer escort: Brooke-class
- 3 x Diesel submarines
- German Type 206 submarine
- 5 x unnamed training submarines
- 6 x P-3 Orion maritime patrol/ASW aircraft
- 18 x S-2G Tracker ASW aircraft
- BGM-84 Harpoon anti-ship missiles
Modern Day planned procurements that didn't materialize:- Phalanx CIWS
- 3 x Oliver Hazard Perry-class frigates
- Adelaide-class frigate
- Kilo-class submarine
- Maestrale-class frigate
- Incheon-class frigate
Had these pushed through especially during the Cold War, the Philippines would have been in par with its Southeast Asian neighbors. At this period, countries such as Indonesia, Malaysia, Taiwan, and Thailand were already operating American or British second hand destroyers, cruisers, and submarines. The biggest change in East Asian affairs would be felt in the 1990s and the 21st century as China would not bully the Philippines with these capable equipment at hands. That is a nice list gillan1220 , thanks for sharing it. |
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gillan1220
Fleet admiral
I've been depressed recently. Slow replies coming in the next few days.
Posts: 12,609
Likes: 11,326
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Post by gillan1220 on Dec 12, 2020 14:10:23 GMT
Credits to CDR Mark R. Condeno of the Defense of the Republic of the Philippines for posting these. I was doing my research about ships and coastal defense capabilities of the Philippines. From the 1950s to the 1990s to even present day, several ships, submarines, cruisers, and even maritime patrol planes were offered to the Philippine Navy. Unfortunately, the Marcos dictatorship caused economic problems for the country from the 1970s to the 1980s. It continued to be felt well into the 21st century. Because of these, none of these acquisitions did not push through. These are the following planned procurements that never pushed through:- HMS Lion (C34), a Minotaur-class light cruiser
- HMS Blake (C99), a Tiger-class light cruiser
- USS Mackerel (SS-204), a Mackerel-class submarine
- Destroyer acquisition project: Fletcher-class, Allen M. Summer-class, and the Gearing-class
- 2 x guided missile frigates/guided missile destroyer escort: Brooke-class
- 3 x Diesel submarines
- German Type 206 submarine
- 5 x unnamed training submarines
- 6 x P-3 Orion maritime patrol/ASW aircraft
- 18 x S-2G Tracker ASW aircraft
- BGM-84 Harpoon anti-ship missiles
Modern Day planned procurements that didn't materialize:- Phalanx CIWS
- 3 x Oliver Hazard Perry-class frigates
- Adelaide-class frigate
- Kilo-class submarine
- Maestrale-class frigate
- Incheon-class frigate
Had these pushed through especially during the Cold War, the Philippines would have been in par with its Southeast Asian neighbors. At this period, countries such as Indonesia, Malaysia, Taiwan, and Thailand were already operating American or British second hand destroyers, cruisers, and submarines. The biggest change in East Asian affairs would be felt in the 1990s and the 21st century as China would not bully the Philippines with these capable equipment at hands. That is a nice list gillan1220 , thanks for sharing it. Tomorrow I will make a thread A better Philippine Navy in the Cold War to present day. |
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Dec 12, 2020 14:14:56 GMT
That is a nice list gillan1220 , thanks for sharing it. Tomorrow I will make a thread A better Philippine Navy in the Cold War to present day. Is this not already a thread called A better Philippine Navy in the Cold War to present day. |
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gillan1220
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I've been depressed recently. Slow replies coming in the next few days.
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Post by gillan1220 on Dec 12, 2020 14:16:45 GMT
Tomorrow I will make a thread A better Philippine Navy in the Cold War to present day. Is this not already a thread called A better Philippine Navy in the Cold War to present day. Oh my bad, I meant Air Force. Found some interesting procurements that never made it. |
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Dec 12, 2020 14:20:20 GMT
Is this not already a thread called A better Philippine Navy in the Cold War to present day. Oh my bad, I meant Air Force. Found some interesting procurements that never made it. Okay. The list looks nice, with at least 4 submarines, but i do question the unnamed training submarines, why so many. |
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gillan1220
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I've been depressed recently. Slow replies coming in the next few days.
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Post by gillan1220 on Dec 12, 2020 14:36:34 GMT
Oh my bad, I meant Air Force. Found some interesting procurements that never made it. Okay. The list looks nice, with at least 4 submarines, but i do question the unnamed training submarines, why so many. I think it was to train sailors in preparation for the real thing. |
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Dec 12, 2020 14:39:16 GMT
Okay. The list looks nice, with at least 4 submarines, but i do question the unnamed training submarines, why so many. I think it was to train sailors in preparation for the real thing. That is also possible on the regular submarines as what is done in most countries who operate submarines, do not know many countries who have submarines only for training. |
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gillan1220
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I've been depressed recently. Slow replies coming in the next few days.
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Post by gillan1220 on Dec 12, 2020 15:03:23 GMT
I think it was to train sailors in preparation for the real thing. That is also possible on the regular submarines as what is done in most countries who operate submarines, do not know many countries who have submarines only for training. These training submarines were offered during the Cold War when the Philippines was still looking to acquire submarines of that era. I couldn't find more information on this matter. |
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1bigrich
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Post by 1bigrich on Dec 12, 2020 22:14:14 GMT
Credits to CDR Mark R. Condeno of the Defense of the Republic of the Philippines for posting these. I was doing my research about ships and coastal defense capabilities of the Philippines. From the 1950s to the 1990s to even present day, several ships, submarines, cruisers, and even maritime patrol planes were offered to the Philippine Navy. Unfortunately, the Marcos dictatorship caused economic problems for the country from the 1970s to the 1980s. It continued to be felt well into the 21st century. Because of these, none of these acquisitions did not push through. These are the following planned procurements that never pushed through:- HMS Lion (C34), a Minotaur-class light cruiser
- HMS Blake (C99), a Tiger-class light cruiser
- USS Mackerel (SS-204), a Mackerel-class submarine
- Destroyer acquisition project: Fletcher-class, Allen M. Summer-class, and the Gearing-class
- 2 x guided missile frigates/guided missile destroyer escort: Brooke-class
- 3 x Diesel submarines
- German Type 206 submarine
- 5 x unnamed training submarines
- 6 x P-3 Orion maritime patrol/ASW aircraft
- 18 x S-2G Tracker ASW aircraft
- BGM-84 Harpoon anti-ship missiles
I wonder if the cruisers were because of Indonesia's acquisition of a Sverdlov class? Interesting list. The ROCN certainly got good service out of their Fletcher, Allen M Sumner and Gearing class DDs, along with some innovative upgrades that the Philippines might have been interested in as well. I wonder what diesel submarines were considered? Oberons were supposed to be very quiet boats and the Australians used them extensively with their special forces. Barbels from the US would have been a capable modern, as would options from the Netherlands ( Zwaardvis) and Sweden ( Sjöormen or later Nacken). Brook class DDGs would have been good, with the Mk 22 Tartar outfit, 5in gun, ASROC and Helo. Type 206 would have been good too in their day. P-3s and S-2Gs would be good for patrol in the archipelago, and Harpoons would provide a good anti-surface capability Some interesting Frigate choices there. Kilos would have made for some interesting exercises with allied navies! [/font][/div] [/div][/quote] More interesting choices. Certainly such acquisitions make the Philippines an interesting diplomatic entity, as a more powerful Philippine Navy means a more powerful ally. I think other nations would be more eager to align with the Philippines, especially with China pressing most of their neighbors. My thoughts, |
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Dec 12, 2020 22:20:54 GMT
I wonder if the cruisers were because of Indonesia's acquisition of a Sverdlov class? Where the Tiger-class light cruiser not a problem for the royal Navy to man and operate, how would a country like the Philippines operate 1 ore even 2 light cruisers when they have never operating anything bigger than a destroyer. |
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Post by TheRomanSlayer on Dec 13, 2020 5:37:09 GMT
I might need help with this very topic for my current TL regarding modernization of the Philippine military.
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gillan1220
Fleet admiral
I've been depressed recently. Slow replies coming in the next few days.
Posts: 12,609
Likes: 11,326
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Post by gillan1220 on Dec 13, 2020 6:15:42 GMT
I wonder if the cruisers were because of Indonesia's acquisition of a Sverdlov class? Interesting list. The ROCN certainly got good service out of their Fletcher, Allen M Sumner and Gearing class DDs, along with some innovative upgrades that the Philippines might have been interested in as well. I wonder what diesel submarines were considered? Oberons were supposed to be very quiet boats and the Australians used them extensively with their special forces. Barbels from the US would have been a capable modern, as would options from the Netherlands ( Zwaardvis) and Sweden ( Sjöormen or later Nacken). Brook class DDGs would have been good, with the Mk 22 Tartar outfit, 5in gun, ASROC and Helo. Type 206 would have been good too in their day. P-3s and S-2Gs would be good for patrol in the archipelago, and Harpoons would provide a good anti-surface capability Yep, one of the reasons why the Philippines was looking to acquire cruisers is because Indonesia got some Soviet cruisers. While this was happening, Malaysia also got frigates, Taiwan got several donations of ships and subs from the U.S., and Thailand also got its hand on submarines. Too bad the economic situation of the Philippines under Marcos and then the 1997-98 Asian Financial Crisis cancelled everything. I talked to a USN P-3 veteran that was stationed in Cubi Point during the 1980s. He told me that the Philippines needs subs and ASW to protect the narrow straits within the archipelago as it would deny OPFOR access to the Pacific Ocean. The Zwaardvis-class submarine would have been ideal as well. The ROC-N operates two of these. Some interesting Frigate choices there. Kilos would have made for some interesting exercises with allied navies! I remember I was still in high school when there was news about the acquisition of frigates from Spain, Italy, or France. The Maestrale-class frigate came close to winning the bid but it got cancelled. So it took way into the mid-2010s for the Philippines to come up with a missile frigate bidding process. Hyundai Heavy Industries won the bid to produce two Jose Rizal-class frigates but this was plagued with problems between 2017-19. It was only until May 2020 when the first Jose Rizal-class frigate arrived. Another one is on its way as we speak. The Kilo-class was considered because AFP observers noticed how Vietnam operates a handful of them. This was back then in 2011. However right now this is not gonna happen because of CAATSA signed during the Trump administration. That would mean countries that purchase Russian equipment would be sanctioned by the U.S. government. Before the Philippine Navy received two Tarlac-class strategic sealift vessels (based on the Indonesian Makassar-class LPD) in 2016 and 2017, the Navy considered the French Mistral-class, the Spanish Galicia-class, and the Singaporean Endurance-class for their amphibious assault force. More interesting choices. Certainly such acquisitions make the Philippines an interesting diplomatic entity, as a more powerful Philippine Navy means a more powerful ally. I think other nations would be more eager to align with the Philippines, especially with China pressing most of their neighbors. My thoughts, That would have been ideal so the Philippines would not be overdependent on allies and partners to come to the country's defense. Where the Tiger-class light cruiser not a problem for the royal Navy to man and operate, how would a country like the Philippines operate 1 ore even 2 light cruisers when they have never operating anything bigger than a destroyer. Actually the largest ship prior to the Tarlac-class SSVs the PN operated was the Cannon-class destroyer escort. There were four of these and one was beached in 1981 due to a typhoon. The rest have been scrapped. If the Philippines used both the Tiger-class and Minotaur-class cruisers, the Navy would probably send officers to the UK to go on training. In OTL, that's what occurred when the country purchased ships, jets, and helicopters from other countries. I might need help with this very topic for my current TL regarding modernization of the Philippine military. Feel free to use this thread for references. I will be making another one for the PAF tonight. |
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Post by TheRomanSlayer on Dec 13, 2020 6:18:31 GMT
I wonder what vessels the Philippine Navy would have purchased, or if there were any chances of other countries donating its old vessels at this point.
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gillan1220
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I've been depressed recently. Slow replies coming in the next few days.
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Post by gillan1220 on Dec 13, 2020 6:33:45 GMT
I wonder what vessels the Philippine Navy would have purchased, or if there were any chances of other countries donating its old vessels at this point. I don't see the DND purchasing older vessels. Even the OHP-class frigate, the Adelaide-class frigate, and the Knox-class frigate are already old and refurbishing them to modern day would be cost the same as procuring a newer destroyer. |
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