stevep
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Post by stevep on May 3, 2016 7:44:39 GMT
Not at all. We're got relatively small forces so the more we can max things out the better but no need to fill every ton of shipping for instance.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on May 3, 2016 14:25:07 GMT
You said in a previous post we must not defeat Germany in the BoB to fast, does this mean i have to keep my fighters on Iceland as it will raise question both in Ottawa and London why where are not helping the RAF in the BoB with everything we have, explaining to them that we do not want to weaken German air power because the Germans need it a year later when they invade the Soviet Union will not be a good answer.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on May 3, 2016 20:09:20 GMT
Lordroel
We can crush the Germans in TTL BoB fairly easily, at least until they stop sending a/c over. However for the reason I mention I don't know if its the best idea. I would recommend that we say say 200-300 modern fighters which would secure a fairly quick but possibly not crushing one. This would include some advanced night fighters so that any attempt at a Blitz would be a very costly operation for the Luftwaffe. Not saying we desert Britain, just that we don't make the defeat of the Luftwaffe too overwhelming.
I had given some thought to trying and make a TL out of this and what I would do is, while intervening in the Battle of the Atlantic immediately, send envoys to Britain to provide technical aid and offer an alliance. Would mention my fears about too decisive a victory over the Luftwaffe and the possibly implications. I think Churchill and the British leadership would understand. Also offer support for an early victory in N Africa to drive the Italians from Libya, after which Italian East Africa can be mopped up pretty much at our leasire. That would set Britain and its allies up for a more successful war even if we did enough to still prompt the Germans to cancel Barbarossa.
Steve
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on May 4, 2016 3:17:32 GMT
Lordroel We can crush the Germans in TTL BoB fairly easily, at least until they stop sending a/c over. However for the reason I mention I don't know if its the best idea. I would recommend that we say say 200-300 modern fighters which would secure a fairly quick but possibly not crushing one. This would include some advanced night fighters so that any attempt at a Blitz would be a very costly operation for the Luftwaffe. Not saying we desert Britain, just that we don't make the defeat of the Luftwaffe too overwhelming. I had given some thought to trying and make a TL out of this and what I would do is, while intervening in the Battle of the Atlantic immediately, send envoys to Britain to provide technical aid and offer an alliance. Would mention my fears about too decisive a victory over the Luftwaffe and the possibly implications. I think Churchill and the British leadership would understand. Also offer support for an early victory in N Africa to drive the Italians from Libya, after which Italian East Africa can be mopped up pretty much at our leasire. That would set Britain and its allies up for a more successful war even if we did enough to still prompt the Germans to cancel Barbarossa. Steve My plan i have for now and i hoop you approve is. - Send one of my Casa Grande-class dock landing ship with several of my planes and vehicles to Canada so that they can study them. - Prepare to send 1 or 2 of my Colossus-class light aircraft carriers and their escorts to the Mediterranean Sea where they will form the Canadian Mediterranean fleet. - Send 1 regiment (consist of 2 battalions of 600 men each) of my First Special Service Force to North Africa. - Send a 1 or 2 squadrons of Lincoln MR 31 Maritime patrol aircraft to the Faroe Islands, this will expand my anti submarine warfare coverage i already have. - Send the armored brigade of my division that i will use as the Iceland garrison to North Africa, one armored brigade consist of three armored regiments with each regiment having 69 tanks , the tanks are mix of Centurion Mark II and M4A3E8 Sherman tanks ( link to orbat) - Send 1 of my division if the British or Canadian have the transport capacity to the United Kingdom.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on May 4, 2016 8:44:19 GMT
Lordroel
Sounds good. My initial plans are a bit looser at the moment.
a) Start operating against German subs from Avalon, also any raiders I can find. [Think one of my books will be a detailed one on the Battle of the Atlantic to get information to help.
b) Contact Britain to send over a York transport with a deputation to talk to the British leadership, ideally including Churchill himself. They will offer details of what military support we can provide and also some free gifts in terms of designs, historical details and especially a book on the Soviet spies to stop information leaking out to Stalin. Will also seek to provide a cover story for Avalon's presence, i.e. that it comes from a parallel world where it is an important British base. [This is less dangerous than potential opponents finding out we're from the future.
c) Would seek to gain aid for when my stockpiles run out as Avalon is basically unsustainable, plus promises of British citizenship for my people and an agreement that knowledge and designs we supply won't be transferred to another power without our agreement.
d) Offer support in the Atlantic and defence of Britain, boosting Fighter Command so the BoB is won earlier and more decisively but for reasons I mention I would suggest not committing my entire force. In the Atlantic as well as committing my navy and appropriate a/c this would include helping the RN with training and developing historical weapons for winning the war quickly. [Also Coastal command similarly].
e) Also offer ground support with aim of moving units to N Africa and securing Libya ASAP. Following up by clearing their E African colonies.
f) Would discourage direct military support for Greece presuming their still attacked by Mussolini to try and localise the conflict. Given them material aid but not sending troops to try and prevent German intervention. [As I'm not sure we could commit enough forces with logistical support to actually defeat the German army in Greece, although with two of us and what Britain could provide it might be practical]. Also seek to avoid a pro-British coup in Yugoslavia, similarly to keep the Balkans fairly quiet until Germany is committed in Russia and Britain is fully brought up to speed.
g) Possibly start looking at a landing in Sicily for early 41, as another way of finding a battle we could win but might drawn in German units as well as securing control of the Med.
h) Do early planning for reinforcing the Far East. Avoid a suicidal stand in Hong Kong but stiffen the defence of Malaya, Borneo and possibly also the Dutch East Indies. Mainly relying on land based air power, subs and better equipped air units.
i) Thinking of a nuclear project, probably based in Canada for security and ease of access to resources.
Anyway, initial thoughts on longer term steps.
Steve
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on May 4, 2016 14:47:22 GMT
a) Start operating against German subs from Avalon, also any raiders I can find. [Think one of my books will be a detailed one on the Battle of the Atlantic to get information to help. If i send 1 or 2 squadrons of Lincoln MR 31 Maritime patrol aircraft to Greenland, this will help a lot of providing ASW coverage of the Canada-United Kingdom convoys, this means i will have ASW planes in Greenland, Iceland and the Faroe Islands. b) Contact Britain to send over a York transport with a deputation to talk to the British leadership, ideally including Churchill himself. They will offer details of what military support we can provide and also some free gifts in terms of designs, historical details and especially a book on the Soviet spies to stop information leaking out to Stalin. Will also seek to provide a cover story for Avalon's presence, i.e. that it comes from a parallel world where it is an important British base. [This is less dangerous than potential opponents finding out we're from the future. We call hold this meeting in Belfast, call it the Belfast Conference, we can explain both Churchill and Mackenzie King of the upcoming events, what we brought with us and also lay out a framework on how the war will be fought. c) Would seek to gain aid for when my stockpiles run out as Avalon is basically unsustainable, plus promises of British citizenship for my people and an agreement that knowledge and designs we supply won't be transferred to another power without our agreement. I think that Iceland could become a Canadian province, there are more of my troops on the island then there are people living on Iceland itself, do not think that Denmark will mind. d) Offer support in the Atlantic and defence of Britain, boosting Fighter Command so the BoB is won earlier and more decisively but for reasons I mention I would suggest not committing my entire force. In the Atlantic as well as committing my navy and appropriate a/c this would include helping the RN with training and developing historical weapons for winning the war quickly. [Also Coastal command similarly]. I will focus on escorting the Canada-United Kingdom convoys and also support the RAF in the Battle of Britain. e) Also offer ground support with aim of moving units to N Africa and securing Libya ASAP. Following up by clearing their E African colonies. If we clear Africa from Italians, Germans and Vichy French it will aid us enormously in the future, i still plan to send: - 1 regiment of my First Special Service ForceEach "Regiment" of two battalions consist of about 600 men. 1st Battalion
No. 1 Company No. 2 Company No. 3 Company 2nd Battalion
No. 4 Company No. 5 Company No. 6 Company - 1 armored brigade (this orbat is only for 1 regiment, a armored brigade consist of 3 armored regiments.Regimental Headquarters
RHQ Troop - 4 Centurion Mark III tanks. Recce Troop - 11 M4A3E8 Sherman tanks. AA Troop - 6 Crusader III, AA Mk III tanks Intercommunication Troop - 9 Lynx Scout Car "A" Squadron
Squadron HQ Troop - 3 Centurion Mark III tanks. Troop - 4 M4A3E8 Sherman tanks. Troop - 4 M4A3E8 Sherman tanks. Troop - 4 M4A3E8 Sherman tanks. Troop - 4 M4A3E8 Sherman tanks. "B" SquadronSquadron HQ Troop - 3 Centurion Mark III tanks. Troop - 4 M4A3E8 Sherman tanks. Troop - 4 M4A3E8 Sherman tanks. Troop - 4 M4A3E8 Sherman tanks. Troop - 4 M4A3E8 Sherman tanks. "C" Squadron
Squadron HQ Troop - 3 Centurion Mark III tanks. Troop - 4 M4A3E8 Sherman tanks. Troop - 4 M4A3E8 Sherman tanks. Troop - 4 M4A3E8 Sherman tanks. Troop - 4 M4A3E8 Sherman tanks. 1 Artillery brigade Field Regiment (Field Artillery)24 gun regiment (3 Batteries, each of 2 Troops of 4 guns equipped with the Ordnance QF 25-pounder Mark IV). Field Regiment (Self Propelled)24 gun regiment (3 Batteries, each of 2 Troops of 4 guns equipped with the 25pdr SP, tracked, Sexton self-propelled artillery). Anti-Tank Regiment16 gun regiment (2 Batteries, each of 2 Troops of 4 guns equipped with the Ordnance QF 17-pounder). f) Would discourage direct military support for Greece presuming their still attacked by Mussolini to try and localise the conflict. Given them material aid but not sending troops to try and prevent German intervention. [As I'm not sure we could commit enough forces with logistical support to actually defeat the German army in Greece, although with two of us and what Britain could provide it might be practical]. Also seek to avoid a pro-British coup in Yugoslavia, similarly to keep the Balkans fairly quiet until Germany is committed in Russia and Britain is fully brought up to speed. We can discuses that at the Belfast Conference, only thing is will Churchill hear us out. g) Possibly start looking at a landing in Sicily for early 41, as another way of finding a battle we could win but might drawn in German units as well as securing control of the Med. First whe must win the battle of North Africa, this can be done using the knowledge and weapons we have at our disposal. h) Do early planning for reinforcing the Far East. Avoid a suicidal stand in Hong Kong but stiffen the defence of Malaya, Borneo and possibly also the Dutch East Indies. Mainly relying on land based air power, subs and better equipped air units. Canada has nothing to gain in a Far East strategy, i will focus my attention on a Atlantic-Mediterranean first and will if needed support any action in the Far East when needed. i) Thinking of a nuclear project, probably based in Canada for security and ease of access to resources. A Anglo-Canadian nuclear project, as long as we can keep the Americans and the Soviets in the dark it will be oke.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on May 4, 2016 15:32:11 GMT
a) Start operating against German subs from Avalon, also any raiders I can find. [Think one of my books will be a detailed one on the Battle of the Atlantic to get information to help. If i send 1 or 2 squadrons of Lincoln MR 31 Maritime patrol aircraft to Greenland, this will help a lot of providing ASW coverage of the Canada-United Kingdom convoys, this means i will have ASW planes in Greenland, Iceland and the Faroe Islands. b) Contact Britain to send over a York transport with a deputation to talk to the British leadership, ideally including Churchill himself. They will offer details of what military support we can provide and also some free gifts in terms of designs, historical details and especially a book on the Soviet spies to stop information leaking out to Stalin. Will also seek to provide a cover story for Avalon's presence, i.e. that it comes from a parallel world where it is an important British base. [This is less dangerous than potential opponents finding out we're from the future. We call hold this meeting in Belfast, call it the Belfast Conference, we can explain both Churchill and Mackenzie King of the upcoming events, what we brought with us and also lay out a framework on how the war will be fought. c) Would seek to gain aid for when my stockpiles run out as Avalon is basically unsustainable, plus promises of British citizenship for my people and an agreement that knowledge and designs we supply won't be transferred to another power without our agreement. I think that Iceland could become a Canadian province, there are more of my troops on the island then there are people living on Iceland itself, do not think that Denmark will mind. d) Offer support in the Atlantic and defence of Britain, boosting Fighter Command so the BoB is won earlier and more decisively but for reasons I mention I would suggest not committing my entire force. In the Atlantic as well as committing my navy and appropriate a/c this would include helping the RN with training and developing historical weapons for winning the war quickly. [Also Coastal command similarly]. I will focus on escorting the Canada-United Kingdom convoys and also support the RAF in the Battle of Britain. e) Also offer ground support with aim of moving units to N Africa and securing Libya ASAP. Following up by clearing their E African colonies. If we clear Africa from Italians, Germans and Vichy French it will aid us enormously in the future, i still plan to send: - 1 regiment of my First Special Service ForceEach "Regiment" of two battalions consist of about 600 men. 1st Battalion
No. 1 Company No. 2 Company No. 3 Company 2nd Battalion
No. 4 Company No. 5 Company No. 6 Company - 1 armored brigade (this orbat is only for 1 regiment, a armored brigade consist of 3 armored regiments.Regimental Headquarters
RHQ Troop - 4 Centurion Mark II tanks. Recce Troop - 11 M4A3E8 Sherman tanks. AA Troop - 6 Crusader III, AA Mk II tanks Intercommunication Troop - 9 Lynx Scout Car "A" Squadron
Squadron HQ Troop - 3 Centurion Mark II tanks. Troop - 4 M4A3E8 Sherman tanks. Troop - 4 M4A3E8 Sherman tanks. Troop - 4 M4A3E8 Sherman tanks. Troop - 4 M4A3E8 Sherman tanks. "B" SquadronSquadron HQ Troop - 3 Centurion Mark II tanks. Troop - 4 M4A3E8 Sherman tanks. Troop - 4 M4A3E8 Sherman tanks. Troop - 4 M4A3E8 Sherman tanks. Troop - 4 M4A3E8 Sherman tanks. "C" Squadron
Squadron HQ Troop - 3 Centurion Mark II tanks. Troop - 4 M4A3E8 Sherman tanks. Troop - 4 M4A3E8 Sherman tanks. Troop - 4 M4A3E8 Sherman tanks. Troop - 4 M4A3E8 Sherman tanks. 1 Artillery brigade Field Regiment (Field Artillery)24 gun regiment (3 Batteries, each of 2 Troops of 4 guns equipped with the Ordnance QF 25-pounder Mark IV). Field Regiment (Self Propelled)24 gun regiment (3 Batteries, each of 2 Troops of 4 guns equipped with the 25pdr SP, tracked, Sexton self-propelled artillery). Anti-Tank Regiment16 gun regiment (2 Batteries, each of 2 Troops of 4 guns equipped with the Ordnance QF 17-pounder). f) Would discourage direct military support for Greece presuming their still attacked by Mussolini to try and localise the conflict. Given them material aid but not sending troops to try and prevent German intervention. [As I'm not sure we could commit enough forces with logistical support to actually defeat the German army in Greece, although with two of us and what Britain could provide it might be practical]. Also seek to avoid a pro-British coup in Yugoslavia, similarly to keep the Balkans fairly quiet until Germany is committed in Russia and Britain is fully brought up to speed. We can discuses that at the Belfast Conference, only thing is will Churchill hear us out. g) Possibly start looking at a landing in Sicily for early 41, as another way of finding a battle we could win but might drawn in German units as well as securing control of the Med. First whe must win the battle of North Africa, this can be done using the knowledge and weapons we have at our disposal. h) Do early planning for reinforcing the Far East. Avoid a suicidal stand in Hong Kong but stiffen the defence of Malaya, Borneo and possibly also the Dutch East Indies. Mainly relying on land based air power, subs and better equipped air units. Canada has nothing to gain in a Far East strategy, i will focus my attention on a Atlantic-Mediterranean first and will if needed support any action in the Far East when needed. i) Thinking of a nuclear project, probably based in Canada for security and ease of access to resources. A Anglo-Canadian nuclear project, as long as we can keep the Americans and the Soviets in the dark it will be oke. Replying on a number of points: a) Definitely agree on closing the air gap and also a high level of surface protection of convoys. With what we have between us we should be able to not only protect the merchant ships but also sink a hell of a lot of subs. Get on top of them now and it might discourage the Germans from building a lot more later on. If not with how we can speed up the development of the RN and allies it should still be a lot easier and quicker to win, along with a lot few casualties on our side. b) A Belfast Conference would be useful provided we can get both leader to accept our initial approaches and attend. Going to have to go through some intermediates 1st unless we can impress them quickly. c) You would outnumber the native Icelanders but that could cause some resentment if you tried dictating to them. [Not clear what you mean but I would avoid that]. If your floating the idea of them joining Canada and win them and the Canadian government over that would be a different matter. They became independent OTL in 44, when Denmark was still under German occupation so not sure what their reaction would be however. Just checked on Wiki and en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Iceland has details of the British occupation, which has already occurred so you could cause some confusion when you appear. Also see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iceland#Kingdom_of_Iceland_1918.E2.80.931944 which details a very strong support for a republic in 44 rather than continuing the relationship with Denmark. d) Agree with the immediate aims in terms of the BoB and BoAtlantic and winning in Libya. Think we definitely have the forces to do all that with at a minimum just logistics support from Britain and a lot more with them. Quite a OOB you have there. I really ought to draw up the same sort of details although suspect they will end up very similar to you. e) Winning Churchill's support for such a passive stance [in the short term] could be difficult given how aggressive he was and the advantages our appear and forces will give. However if we do get heavily involved in the Balkans, its likely to butterfly the Nazi-Soviet war, which will have both advantages and disadvantages and I think we should consider what will be best. f) Agree that Canada has nothing to gain but it will have something to lose if Britain suffers major problems like the historical defeats to Japan in terms of loss of resources to the allies, directly and indirectly, and also the loss of British influence as a result. I must admit that, given your Dutch [or have I got that wrong?] I thought you might want to help them avoid the OTL Japanese conquest. g) Agree that in the short term at least I would like to keep it a commonwealth affair but would be willing to head-hunt some of the assorted emigres who OTL were very important in the allied nuclear project. Also in the longer term, if we don't have an alliance with the US, which their only likely to be interested in if their in charge, we will need some balance to the Soviets. This might be from a European defensive organisation. Steve
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on May 4, 2016 16:03:13 GMT
a) Definitely agree on closing the air gap and also a high level of surface protection of convoys. With what we have between us we should be able to not only protect the merchant ships but also sink a hell of a lot of subs. Get on top of them now and it might discourage the Germans from building a lot more later on. If not with how we can speed up the development of the RN and allies it should still be a lot easier and quicker to win, along with a lot few casualties on our side. If you deploy your Lancaster in the United Kingdom this will give us a enormous coverage, b) A Belfast Conference would be useful provided we can get both leader to accept our initial approaches and attend. Going to have to go through some intermediates 1st unless we can impress them quickly. I will of course have to meet with British Minister to Iceland Charles Howard Smith, he is my first high level contact, after that i hoop to be able to speak to people in London who really matter. c) You would outnumber the native Icelanders but that could cause some resentment if you tried dictating to them. [Not clear what you mean but I would avoid that]. If your floating the idea of them joining Canada and win them and the Canadian government over that would be a different matter. They became independent OTL in 44, when Denmark was still under German occupation so not sure what their reaction would be however. I hoop it can remain peaceful, the total people living on Iceland in 1940 was around 121,000, many of them i hoop to employ at my assembly lines or doing other services i might need, this will boost their economy a lot i hoop. But that was in OTL, i do not now what might happen but as i have airfields, a naval base and factory's on Iceland i hoop it will work out. d) Agree with the immediate aims in terms of the BoB and BoAtlantic and winning in Libya. Think we definitely have the forces to do all that with at a minimum just logistics support from Britain and a lot more with them. Quite a OOB you have there. I really ought to draw up the same sort of details although suspect they will end up very similar to you. I have this great website i use, called canadiansoldiers.come) Winning Churchill's support for such a passive stance [in the short term] could be difficult given how aggressive he was and the advantages our appear and forces will give. However if we do get heavily involved in the Balkans, its likely to butterfly the Nazi-Soviet war, which will have both advantages and disadvantages and I think we should consider what will be best. Is it not better to save millions of life than to see them lost. f) Agree that Canada has nothing to gain but it will have something to lose if Britain suffers major problems like the historical defeats to Japan in terms of loss of resources to the allies, directly and indirectly, and also the loss of British influence as a result. I must admit that, given your Dutch [or have I got that wrong?] I thought you might want to help them avoid the OTL Japanese conquest. If we can hurt Germany enough it might be that Japan will think different of attacking a strong United kingdom. g) Agree that in the short term at least I would like to keep it a commonwealth affair but would be willing to head-hunt some of the assorted emigres who OTL were very important in the allied nuclear project. Also in the longer term, if we don't have an alliance with the US, which their only likely to be interested in if their in charge, we will need some balance to the Soviets. This might be from a European defensive organisation. The US main focus is on Japan, the problem if we are to good in hurting Germany due our arrival, then we might have a problem of getting the US out of their isolation.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on May 5, 2016 11:36:07 GMT
Lordroel a) Agreed, with a/c in Britain, Iceland, Avalon and Canada we can pretty much close the air gap right away. b) If the people of Iceland and Canada are OK then fine. I would just be concerned about their reaction, having had Germany invade Denmark, Britain occupy them and then suddenly a very large number of overwhelmingly military people appear pretty much out of thin air. c) Thanks for that site. Looks interesting and will try and give it a proper look through soon. Feeling rough today after binging on a particularly addictive, to me at least, computer game yesterday so planning on taking it easy this morning. [Although as the old say goes, no plan survives contact with the enemy, AKA my addiction. ] d) Definitely better and especially if we can limit the Soviet Union to its 1939-40 conquests. However that will mean a lot more fighting for the western powers, which is likely to mean Britain and the dominions and even with our support that could be too much of a challenge. Also there would be the danger of Stalin stepping in as an 'ally' at some point when Germany is clearly on the ropes and seizing possibly even more of eastern and central Europe. Basically I'm doubtful Britain has the numerical strength to occupy Germany and its fascist allies without a long and gruelling battle even with the aid we can give quickly enough to prevent Soviet entry. Especially since it would take a couple of years to rebuild the British army and bring it and their other forces up to our technical standards. Hence I'm in two minds about what is the best option. If we both commit to it we could, with some help from the Greeks and the empire, make Greece a mincing ground for the Germans and possibly even hold it but actually breaking out to the north before say 42-43 at a minimum would probably be beyond us, let alone liberating northern France. e) Hopefully we could deter a Japanese attack but they weren't deterred by the might of the US OTL and at the minimum deterring them would require more forces in the Far East. I think its more likely they will still attack but with some foreknowledge and suitable forces we can hold Malaya and at least the western DEI, inflicting heavy losses on Japanese who were operating very much on a shoe-string and heavily occupied in China. Also if we can keep Burma then the main supply line to China isn't relying on a highly inefficient air bridge over the Himalayas so hopefully the Nationalists can be a good bit stronger. Basically while India can supply some manpower and the dominions will contribute greatly we're very much tied to Britain's manpower reserves. Without France and with the needs for a very large navy and air force I doubt it has the manpower to take out Germany and its allies on its own at least before we get nukes. That's my basic concern. f) That is a big problem as well, which makes the relationship with the Soviets even more important. The US will only step into the European war if they feel their vital interests are threatened, or if Hitler attacks them, as OTL. However if thanks to our help Britain is looking a lot stronger and probably taking the initiative and the U Boats have been hammered this greatly weakens if not removes both of those triggers. They are likely to be drawn into a Pacific war but whether this would mean later on being brought into the European conflict and on what terms is difficult to say. Steve
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on May 5, 2016 11:58:43 GMT
a) Agreed, with a/c in Britain, Iceland, Avalon and Canada we can pretty much close the air gap right away. Plus combined with what Coastal command can bring it will be very hard for U-boats to have any happy time, also if we bring in the blueprints and books about the Enigma machine with us, it will be very hard for the U-boats to communicate with out us finding it out. b) If the people of Iceland and Canada are OK then fine. I would just be concerned about their reaction, having had Germany invade Denmark, Britain occupy them and then suddenly a very large number of overwhelmingly military people appear pretty much out of thin air. My troops are Canadians, they are gentlemen true and true, i myself do not think there will be any problem with my say in Iceland, but time will tell what will happen with Iceland. c) Thanks for that site. Looks interesting and will try and give it a proper look through soon. Feeling rough today after binging on a particularly addictive, to me at least, computer game yesterday so planning on taking it easy this morning. [Although as the old say goes, no plan survives contact with the enemy, AKA my addiction. ] You are not the only one who plays a lot of games, just downloaded my PS4 free game, it Tropic 5, so i think i will have a new game i like to play for a while. d) Definitely better and especially if we can limit the Soviet Union to its 1939-40 conquests. However that will mean a lot more fighting for the western powers, which is likely to mean Britain and the dominions and even with our support that could be too much of a challenge. Also there would be the danger of Stalin stepping in as an 'ally' at some point when Germany is clearly on the ropes and seizing possibly even more of eastern and central Europe. Basically I'm doubtful Britain has the numerical strength to occupy Germany and its fascist allies without a long and gruelling battle even with the aid we can give quickly enough to prevent Soviet entry. Especially since it would take a couple of years to rebuild the British army and bring it and their other forces up to our technical standards. Hence I'm in two minds about what is the best option. seems we have to think of that scenario true, might be wise to build up a reserve of things we need just in case we might have to fight a war with the Soviet Union. If we both commit to it we could, with some help from the Greeks and the empire, make Greece a mincing ground for the Germans and possibly even hold it but actually breaking out to the north before say 42-43 at a minimum would probably be beyond us, let alone liberating northern France. Have a parachute brigade that i can send to Greece or Crete when it needed, do not think for now we are going to do any airborne operations in Western Europe for the time being. e) Hopefully we could deter a Japanese attack but they weren't deterred by the might of the US OTL and at the minimum deterring them would require more forces in the Far East. I think its more likely they will still attack but with some foreknowledge and suitable forces we can hold Malaya and at least the western DEI, inflicting heavy losses on Japanese who were operating very much on a shoe-string and heavily occupied in China. Also if we can keep Burma then the main supply line to China isn't relying on a highly inefficient air bridge over the Himalayas so hopefully the Nationalists can be a good bit stronger. Basically while India can supply some manpower and the dominions will contribute greatly we're very much tied to Britain's manpower reserves. Without France and with the needs for a very large navy and air force I doubt it has the manpower to take out Germany and its allies on its own at least before we get nukes. That's my basic concern. If we win the BoB we can move some of our air asset to Singapore and British Borneo, this with our aircraft carriers will give us a good change, especially against the Japanese zero in air combat as i think our Hawker Sea Fur, Hawker Tempest, North American Aviation P-51K Mustangs and Sea Hurricane Mk IIC fighter aircraft are good enough to fight them. f) That is a big problem as well, which makes the relationship with the Soviets even more important. The US will only step into the European war if they feel their vital interests are threatened, or if Hitler attacks them, as OTL. However if thanks to our help Britain is looking a lot stronger and probably taking the initiative and the U Boats have been hammered this greatly weakens if not removes both of those triggers. They are likely to be drawn into a Pacific war but whether this would mean later on being brought into the European conflict and on what terms is difficult to say. We could also use our knowledge to make sure that the German resistance get some help, we say that they may keep their pre-1939 borders if they remove Hitler from power, a Germany that is on our side will make us stronger in any future conflict with the Soviet Union.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on May 5, 2016 13:16:06 GMT
a) Agreed, with a/c in Britain, Iceland, Avalon and Canada we can pretty much close the air gap right away. Plus combined with what Coastal command can bring it will be very hard for U-boats to have any happy time, also if we bring in the blueprints and books about the Enigma machine with us, it will be very hard for the U-boats to communicate with out us finding it out. b) If the people of Iceland and Canada are OK then fine. I would just be concerned about their reaction, having had Germany invade Denmark, Britain occupy them and then suddenly a very large number of overwhelmingly military people appear pretty much out of thin air. My troops are Canadians, they are gentlemen true and true, i myself do not think there will be any problem with my say in Iceland, but time will tell what will happen with Iceland. c) Thanks for that site. Looks interesting and will try and give it a proper look through soon. Feeling rough today after binging on a particularly addictive, to me at least, computer game yesterday so planning on taking it easy this morning. [Although as the old say goes, no plan survives contact with the enemy, AKA my addiction. ] You are not the only one who plays a lot of games, just downloaded my PS4 free game, it Tropic 5, so i think i will have a new game i like to play for a while. d) Definitely better and especially if we can limit the Soviet Union to its 1939-40 conquests. However that will mean a lot more fighting for the western powers, which is likely to mean Britain and the dominions and even with our support that could be too much of a challenge. Also there would be the danger of Stalin stepping in as an 'ally' at some point when Germany is clearly on the ropes and seizing possibly even more of eastern and central Europe. Basically I'm doubtful Britain has the numerical strength to occupy Germany and its fascist allies without a long and gruelling battle even with the aid we can give quickly enough to prevent Soviet entry. Especially since it would take a couple of years to rebuild the British army and bring it and their other forces up to our technical standards. Hence I'm in two minds about what is the best option. seems we have to think of that scenario true, might be wise to build up a reserve of things we need just in case we might have to fight a war with the Soviet Union. If we both commit to it we could, with some help from the Greeks and the empire, make Greece a mincing ground for the Germans and possibly even hold it but actually breaking out to the north before say 42-43 at a minimum would probably be beyond us, let alone liberating northern France. Have a parachute brigade that i can send to Greece or Crete when it needed, do not think for now we are going to do any airborne operations in Western Europe for the time being. e) Hopefully we could deter a Japanese attack but they weren't deterred by the might of the US OTL and at the minimum deterring them would require more forces in the Far East. I think its more likely they will still attack but with some foreknowledge and suitable forces we can hold Malaya and at least the western DEI, inflicting heavy losses on Japanese who were operating very much on a shoe-string and heavily occupied in China. Also if we can keep Burma then the main supply line to China isn't relying on a highly inefficient air bridge over the Himalayas so hopefully the Nationalists can be a good bit stronger. Basically while India can supply some manpower and the dominions will contribute greatly we're very much tied to Britain's manpower reserves. Without France and with the needs for a very large navy and air force I doubt it has the manpower to take out Germany and its allies on its own at least before we get nukes. That's my basic concern. If we win the BoB we can move some of our air asset to Singapore and British Borneo, this with our aircraft carriers will give us a good change, especially against the Japanese zero in air combat as i think our Hawker Sea Fur, Hawker Tempest, North American Aviation P-51K Mustangs and Sea Hurricane Mk IIC fighter aircraft are good enough to fight them. f) That is a big problem as well, which makes the relationship with the Soviets even more important. The US will only step into the European war if they feel their vital interests are threatened, or if Hitler attacks them, as OTL. However if thanks to our help Britain is looking a lot stronger and probably taking the initiative and the U Boats have been hammered this greatly weakens if not removes both of those triggers. They are likely to be drawn into a Pacific war but whether this would mean later on being brought into the European conflict and on what terms is difficult to say. We could also use our knowledge to make sure that the German resistance get some help, we say that they may keep their pre-1939 borders if they remove Hitler from power, a Germany that is on our side will make us stronger in any future conflict with the Soviet Union. a) I will have details of Enigma and also the Colossus machine that was used to break the latter Enigma codes. b) Don't expect trouble on our side but just that the locals were less than happy with British intervention and suddenly getting a lot more foreign troops is likely to increase that, even if their commander isn't suggesting they join Canada. Possibly however if you go softly with it. c) In my case its a game called Arsenal of Democracy, a spin off of Hearts of Iron. Very big game I haven't played for a year or so and trying to catch up with a couple of version upgrades. Plus it doesn't help I'm a bit of a micro-manager. d) I think there will be no great appetite to fight the Soviets unless they try and grab further land as Germany collapses. In which case, depending on the state of Britain and its allies when Germany is defeated, that could be a nasty situation to be in. Also, if as is likely I suspect the US isn't involved in the European conflict any support they were giving, [I.e. L-L and the like] could well not continue and Britain would struggle to carry the burden on its own even if the will is there. e) To be honest I'm not a great fan of paradrops as after the initial success by the Germans in the west, which seems to have been more surprise than anything else, they proved relatively ineffective and often costly. Might be useful to capture key areas behind enemy lines but too lightly equipped to last long without support. Hence why I haven't including any in my forces. f) Our carriers are light fleet ones so not sure if they would be best used in the Pacific, at least the early stages. Would rely on land based air, especially some of the more advanced designs we can produce, my subs along with any British ones that can be upgraded and a few properly equipped garrisons in key locations. Wear down the KB before we can bring our fleets into play. Especially since as light carriers their not heavily armoured so would be vulnerable if/when the Japanese rely on their divine wind. At least not unless we can build a fair number more to give more a/c for really powerful CAPs. Also if we're working through E Asia rather than the S Pacific as the USN did OTL we should have plenty of land bases to use rather than relying on capturing small islands. g) That might be an option but would have to be agreed with Churchill. Plus are you including them keeping the Sudetenland? Might also insist on a plebiscite in Austria and the full restoration of democracy and international trials of those guilty of war crimes. Even in 44 a lot of the Germans plotting against Hitler wanted and expected to do a deal that would keep a fair number of their gains while elements of the German army were implemented in crimes in the east so this could be a problem. [Don't forget while Russia hasn't been invaded yet Poland has been]. We don't want to end up 'allied' with a regime that still has a lot of the same aims and characteristics as the extreme nationalists under the Nazis. Steve
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on May 5, 2016 17:09:04 GMT
a) I will have details of Enigma and also the Colossus machine that was used to break the latter Enigma codes. Good i will have the blueprint of the Z4, the German counterpart of the Colossus among my list, also think i will have the blueprint of the Type 93 (Long Lance) torpedo, in order to now this Japanese super torpedo its best to now everything about it, therefore a blueprint of the Type 93 is on my list. b) Don't expect trouble on our side but just that the locals were less than happy with British intervention and suddenly getting a lot more foreign troops is likely to increase that, even if their commander isn't suggesting they join Canada. Possibly however if you go softly with it. Was thinking of supporting them with any of their actions and if needed to sign a accord with them for leasing the basses that belong to me for lets begin, 10 years, because i do not intend to remain on Iceland for to long as i think Canada can always use what i have to offer when the war is over. c) In my case its a game called Arsenal of Democracy, a spin off of Hearts of Iron. Very big game I haven't played for a year or so and trying to catch up with a couple of version upgrades. Plus it doesn't help I'm a bit of a micro-manager. Wich country do you play. d) I think there will be no great appetite to fight the Soviets unless they try and grab further land as Germany collapses. In which case, depending on the state of Britain and its allies when Germany is defeated, that could be a nasty situation to be in. Also, if as is likely I suspect the US isn't involved in the European conflict any support they were giving, [I.e. L-L and the like] could well not continue and Britain would struggle to carry the burden on its own even if the will is there. If we can prevent the BoB from becoming a battle in which Germans Bomb British cities it will strengthen us enormously i think. e) To be honest I'm not a great fan of paradrops as after the initial success by the Germans in the west, which seems to have been more surprise than anything else, they proved relatively ineffective and often costly. Might be useful to capture key areas behind enemy lines but too lightly equipped to last long without support. Hence why I haven't including any in my forces. But i do, also one of my battalions in my parachute brigade is called the Parachute Reconnaissance Battalion it consist of: Recon Company (there are 2 companies in the Parachute Reconnaissance Battalion)
Armoured Car Platoon
3 x Lynx Scout Cars 6 x Chevrolet 1533X2 30 CWT (also used by the First Special Service Force). 3 x Bantam BRC-40s (Willys MB Jeep) 3 x 60mm Mortar Light Tank Platoon5 x Light Tank Mk VII Tetrarch Another is called the Parachute Artillery Battalion and it consist of: Battalion Headquarters
Security (two Chevrolet 1533X2 30 CWTs) Signals, Supply, Maintenance 75mm Battery
Section (2x Bantam BRC-40s, 2x75mm Guns) Section (2x Bantam BRC-40s, 2x75mm Guns) 75mm Battery (as above) Anti-Tank Platoon
(2x Chevrolet 30s equipped with the Bofors 37mm QF anti-gun). (2x Bantam BRC-40s equipped with PIATs). f) Our carriers are light fleet ones so not sure if they would be best used in the Pacific, at least the early stages. Would rely on land based air, especially some of the more advanced designs we can produce, my subs along with any British ones that can be upgraded and a few properly equipped garrisons in key locations. Wear down the KB before we can bring our fleets into play. Especially since as light carriers their not heavily armoured so would be vulnerable if/when the Japanese rely on their divine wind. At least not unless we can build a fair number more to give more a/c for really powerful CAPs. Also if we're working through E Asia rather than the S Pacific as the USN did OTL we should have plenty of land bases to use rather than relying on capturing small islands. We have more than 1 1/2 years to prepare, it will be enough i hoop. g) That might be an option but would have to be agreed with Churchill. Plus are you including them keeping the Sudetenland? Might also insist on a plebiscite in Austria and the full restoration of democracy and international trials of those guilty of war crimes. Even in 44 a lot of the Germans plotting against Hitler wanted and expected to do a deal that would keep a fair number of their gains while elements of the German army were implemented in crimes in the east so this could be a problem. [Don't forget while Russia hasn't been invaded yet Poland has been]. We don't want to end up 'allied' with a regime that still has a lot of the same aims and characteristics as the extreme nationalists under the Nazis. Better a strong allied Germany than a Soviet Union at the channel. Also check these website out, they give plenty of information about British armored divisions, you can change vehicles with the last version or succor that where used in 1950. www.cgsc.edu/CARL/nafziger/939BXAA.pdf, www.testofbattle.com/upload/bob/CDModern/British%20CDTOB%20list.pdf
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stevep
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Post by stevep on May 5, 2016 20:24:00 GMT
Lordroel a) Good, that might work with Iceland. I have no problem with them becoming a province of Canada, which would probably mean Greenland going the same way but I think it would have to be handled carefully to get that result. b) The type 93 has some problems because it can be bloody dangerous to ships carrying it if their hit by gunfire but they can also as you say be deadly to enemy ships. c) I've normally played Russia as the easiest of the great powers to play. Only really have to consider one ground front and can ignore the navy pretty much. Did start a game as Germany a couple of years back but never really got beyond the fall of France then RL intervened. Since then its gone from v 1.08 to v 1.10 so started playing as Russia again in the last couple of weeks. After a dry run or two trying a game but not sure how things will go. Generally rely on producing modern forces in sizeable numbers just before the storm but you need to get the balance just right or things can go very wrong. Normally I manage to hold just a little in from the border and from about 43 onwards start pushing back. Last game a couple of years back, by early 44 I had reached Gibraltar, despite it being on the hard setting. What really inspired me was coming across an AAR [After Action Report] of an early version of the game which had been modified so you get a communist US, the UPRA I think its called and a Nazi-Soviet alliance, where the player, operating as Britain manages to defeat the Nazi-Soviet alliance [but only pushing the Soviets back] and also Japan [which is also fighting the UPRA] and then he has stories about the post-war world in which a British lead alliance and the UPRA. Of the great power's I think Britain is the hardest to play and I would like, if I even got to play them proficiently, to try a scenario similar to that. d) Agreed. Plus winning the Atlantic battle quickly and decisively would free up huge resources. e) Each to their own. f) About 18 months is enough to change a lot but not really to build new fleet carriers. Even constructing production lines for our a/c and possibly as importantly changing the FAA's doctrines and tactics will take about that long. However definitely time enough to establish the new bases and forces in the east that can stop the Japanese pretty much dead. As long of course as they still attack the US. If they gambled on only attacking the British and Dutch things could get pretty tight even with the support we can supply. g) Provided it is de-Nazifed and democratic and hasn't made wartime gains. The latter is vital because otherwise no other country in Europe is likely to trust it, or us. h) Many thanks for those links. I think that 2nd one is just what I'm looking for. Steve
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on May 5, 2016 20:38:58 GMT
Lordroel a) Good, that might work with Iceland. I have no problem with them becoming a province of Canada, which would probably mean Greenland going the same way but I think it would have to be handled carefully to get that result. b) The type 93 has some problems because it can be bloody dangerous to ships carrying it if their hit by gunfire but they can also as you say be deadly to enemy ships. c) I've normally played Russia as the easiest of the great powers to play. Only really have to consider one ground front and can ignore the navy pretty much. Did start a game as Germany a couple of years back but never really got beyond the fall of France then RL intervened. Since then its gone from v 1.08 to v 1.10 so started playing as Russia again in the last couple of weeks. After a dry run or two trying a game but not sure how things will go. Generally rely on producing modern forces in sizeable numbers just before the storm but you need to get the balance just right or things can go very wrong. Normally I manage to hold just a little in from the border and from about 43 onwards start pushing back. Last game a couple of years back, by early 44 I had reached Gibraltar, despite it being on the hard setting. What really inspired me was coming across an AAR [After Action Report] of an early version of the game which had been modified so you get a communist US, the UPRA I think its called and a Nazi-Soviet alliance, where the player, operating as Britain manages to defeat the Nazi-Soviet alliance [but only pushing the Soviets back] and also Japan [which is also fighting the UPRA] and then he has stories about the post-war world in which a British lead alliance and the UPRA. Of the great power's I think Britain is the hardest to play and I would like, if I even got to play them proficiently, to try a scenario similar to that. d) Agreed. Plus winning the Atlantic battle quickly and decisively would free up huge resources. e) Each to their own. f) About 18 months is enough to change a lot but not really to build new fleet carriers. Even constructing production lines for our a/c and possibly as importantly changing the FAA's doctrines and tactics will take about that long. However definitely time enough to establish the new bases and forces in the east that can stop the Japanese pretty much dead. As long of course as they still attack the US. If they gambled on only attacking the British and Dutch things could get pretty tight even with the support we can supply. g) Provided it is de-Nazifed and democratic and hasn't made wartime gains. The latter is vital because otherwise no other country in Europe is likely to trust it, or us. h) Many thanks for those links. I think that 2nd one is just what I'm looking for. Steve A) I will work with the people of Iceland and let them decide what they want. B) But understanding the Type 93 give us a change to prevent us from becoming a victim of it. C) i think i now which AAR you are referring to, is it not called Against all Odds: The British Empire in World War 2 by somebody called trekchu. D) Do not think we need our Centurion Mark IIIs in the Asia, the Japanese have nothing to counter them, it going to be a Navy and air show in that region so that means that we can build them and equipped as many armored divisions with them as we can. E) You have submarines in you navy, i do not, prefer hunting them more than using them. F) we at least should prepare Singapore and British Borneo as soon as posabile, in early 1941 we can start if needed send the ships and planes to their new basses there. G) as long as we do not do a Iraq with Germany in disbanding everything like what the US did in Iraq. H) No problem will look more, also have many Concord and Squadron Signal E-books on my computer so that helps also a lot.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on May 5, 2016 22:54:20 GMT
Lordroel Sounding very good. Yes the AAR is AAO. He goes by a number of names on different sites including trekchu but I think he's called trekaddict on that site. [Just checked and that's the case. Think its at least 5 years since he played the game but still coming out with updates and just posted the 1st part of the big naval battle v Japan a few days back. Definitely don't need Centurions in Asia but some down-time army would be useful. More importantly I think some modern a/c and a few properly equipped and trained ground units. With victories elsewhere that should be well within Britain's capacity even without our direct aid. The subs were primarily for helping to stop the Japanese in SEA. OTL most of Britain's sub force was designed with that purpose in mind but drawn west into the Med and North Sea for battles they weren't really planned for. I'm hoping both my ships directly and help in designing others will make a big difference here. Doubly so if we can get adequate numbers of good torpedoes and other equipment. The USN OTL destroyed much of the Japanese economy by the destruction of their MS even without the fire-bombing of the cities but here I think I can help the RN do it even earlier. Agree that we should definitely have plans for reinforcing the positions, including the Dutch if possible. That will be the difficult thing. The Nazis have deeply embedded their organisation and culture into German society, especially since no one can really get anywhere without being a party member. We need to make sure we manage to separate the real Nazis from the minor figures and make sure the party and its ideas are as firmly rejected as OTL. Steve
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