lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Apr 30, 2016 18:37:55 GMT
Lordroel Can play it either way. My set up assumes no allies from here but it would be interesting with a joint effort although get a couple more people along and, presuming we all agree, Adolph could have some serious problems very quickly. Steve This is my list but it is not yet complete as you can see. Equipment comes from 1950 Canada A) An army of up to 6 divisions, including supporting corps and army units [i.e. supply, HQ, artillery etc].
3 Divisions (1 armored brigade, 2 infantry brigades, 1 artillery brigade and several support regiments), First Special Service Force (consist of 3 regiments of 3 battalions each and one support battalion) and a Canadian Parachute Brigade 3 Parachute infantry Battalions, 1 Parachute Artillery Battalion and the Parachute Reconnaissance Battalion). B) 300,000 tons of military shipping, from the same nation and time period allocated as you wish.
4 Colossus-class light aircraft carrier (73,600 tons). 8 Minotaur-class light cruisers (64,400 tons). 24 V-class destroyers (42,648 tons). 24 Algerine-class minesweepers (24,720 tons). 24 River-class frigates (43,920 tons). 24 Flower-class (modified) corvettes (24,000 tons). 3 Casa Grande-class dock landing ships (12,000 tons). This bring a total of 286,000 tons of my allocated 300,000 tons. C) 1500 'engines' of aircraft. i.e. a single engine fighter counts as 1, a twin engined one as two and say a Lancaster Bomber as 4. This total would include engines for naval a/c whether land or carrier based. Note that jet engined a/c are banned.
240 Bristol Beaufighter Mk III/IV heavy fighter/strike aircraft. 120 Lincoln MR 31 Maritime patrol aircraft. 200 North American Aviation P-51K Mustangs fighter aircraft. 200 Sea Hurricane Mk IIC fighter aircraft. 150 Hawker Sea Fury fighter-bomber. 90 Bristol Freighter transport aircraft. Have some spare engines left but think that I will use them for training aircraft. 3) There is a base for this force which includes airfields and a port along with spares, supplies and food for a year's activity along with 3 months’ supply of munitions, at high rates of use. This also houses your forces and equipment and four production lines for products.
I choose Iceland, it is strategic located and has enough room where I can have a port, airfield without having to bump into locals. 4) You can also have a number of designs for military and civil equipment, again limited to a cutoff date of 1-1-1950 but this can include things like jet a/c and nuclear installations. Those can total: A) 15 military designs
TBD. B) 15 naval designs
TBD. C) 15 air designs
TBD. D) 10 items of industrial or technological equipment or installations.
TBD. 5) Finally you can have 10 books, which can date from any time up to the present day.
TBD
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Apr 30, 2016 23:37:39 GMT
Lordroel
Sounds like an interesting combination. You also have some spare army capacity I think as you only have 3 divisions and some extra battalions. Also no assembly lines for production mentioned.
If we play on the same world then between us and our forces we can do a hell of a lot to close the air gap and win the Atlantic battles. Not sure you have much in the way of anti-ship capacity with your carrier force, which is why I went with the Barracuba to give some ability against German raiders or if I need to go against the Japanese.
I'm having 2nd thoughts about using one of my assembly lines for the transistors as I can probably get the same effect from a design fairly quickly while there's a lot of things I could run short of while Britain develops the necessary production lines.
One reason I went with the Loch's for DEs was that they were later and more capable designs rather than the Flowers or even the Rivers. Haven't gone for any conventional cruisers or bigger simply because I intent to avoid big gun battles and also can hopefully rely on working with the RN as it has a lot of capacity there.
With your US designs what are you thinking about for when your spares run out? Hoping to buy more or just use them while you can?
Steve
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on May 1, 2016 9:54:58 GMT
Sounds like an interesting combination. You also have some spare army capacity I think as you only have 3 divisions and some extra battalions. Also no assembly lines for production mentioned. does this include vehicles and weapons because if i can name four i would like to produce in large numbers. If we play on the same world then between us and our forces we can do a hell of a lot to close the air gap and win the Atlantic battles. Not sure you have much in the way of anti-ship capacity with your carrier force, which is why I went with the Barracuba to give some ability against German raiders or if I need to go against the Japanese. The 1940 British can supply me with dive and torpedo bombers if necessary so that is not going to be a problem i think. I'm having 2nd thoughts about using one of my assembly lines for the transistors as I can probably get the same effect from a design fairly quickly while there's a lot of things I could run short of while Britain develops the necessary production lines. That is true. With your US designs what are you thinking about for when your spares run out? Hoping to buy more or just use them while you can? Did not toughed about that.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on May 1, 2016 17:47:42 GMT
does this include vehicles and weapons because if i can name four i would like to produce in large numbers. Most definitely. I think I will need to allocate at least one to either a/c type or engine as it would take some time for Britain to start producing versions themselves. Be warned that carrier a/c were a serious weakness of Britain in WWII. Along with some aspects of carrier design and tactics. Even with advanced a/c I would be cautious about facing up to the full strength KB with my carrier force. Its something to be considered. With some support, i.e. supplying designs of the equipment you can probably get them to produce stuff for you, although that could be politically difficult prior to the US being entered into the war. Otherwise, once the year's supply of spares and equipment is used up that's very much a wasting asset. Also please remember that you have no replacement manpower so use it carefully. We will need to work with the down-timers as closely as possible. Steve
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on May 1, 2016 18:09:03 GMT
Most definitely. I think I will need to allocate at least one to either a/c type or engine as it would take some time for Britain to start producing versions themselves. I think i have production lines for the following: Centurion Mk III tank. Sterling sub machine gun. Rolls-Royce Merlin 60 series (engine used by the P-51K Mustang fighter aircraft). 25pdr SP, tracked, Sexton self-propelled artillery vehicle. Be warned that carrier a/c were a serious weakness of Britain in WWII. Along with some aspects of carrier design and tactics. Even with advanced a/c I would be cautious about facing up to the full strength KB with my carrier force. I still think i have a good choice made, both mine Mustangs, Sea Hurricanes and Hawker Sea Furys can help in winning the Battle of Britain that still rages on, my carriers will go to the Pacific where they can go against Japan Zero when they start to come. Its something to be considered. With some support, i.e. supplying designs of the equipment you can probably get them to produce stuff for you, although that could be politically difficult prior to the US being entered into the war. Otherwise, once the year's supply of spares and equipment is used up that's very much a wasting asset. Lucky for me the Mustang uses a British engine produce in license so i do not see why the US is going to complain about it. Also please remember that you have no replacement manpower so use it carefully. We will need to work with the down-timers as closely as possible. I will send 1 division to the UK, 1 i keep on Iceland and 1 i can use where it is needed.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on May 1, 2016 19:09:51 GMT
Lordroel Think their good choices for the assembly lines. Possibly we could co-operate as I will be using the Centurion myself. Also possibly still using the Sexton. [Must admit other than the Centurion I don't really know what the Order of Battle of a post-war British Armoured Division was]. The Mustang's will be useful in a BoB as will be the Sea Fury's. The Sea Hurriances may struggle a bit depending on how much their modification for carrier use. However do remember that if their used in a BoB then: a) There will be some losses, due to attrition/accidents as well as combat which will mean they won't be available for use in your carriers [Not a point with the Mustang's but could be for other types. b) Not too sure I want to show too much of our hand by making any BoB a massacre of the Luftwaffe. We can hurt it a lot and protect Britain against most attacks but too dramatic a success could have unintended consequences. Thinking mainly do we still want Germany to attack Russia? If it does then it could be a longer and costlier war for the western powers because we won't have the Soviets destroying most of the German army. If they do and we do too much damage to Germany before the western powers can land on the continent in force you could have the Red Army on the Rhine, or even further west! Have to think through the consequences. The Mustang is OK, at least up to the P51-D and I suspect your P51-K's do but couldn't tell from a quick look on Wiki. However what do the B25's and C47's use? Presumably American engines? The B25 as 1st produced had " 1,600 hp Wright R-2600 "Double Cyclone" radial engines," according to its Wiki entry. As I say it should be possible to sort out some sort of deal but while the US is at peace you, or someone else, may have to pay. I'm planning on sending the bulk of my army to Britain with the expectation of possibly forming a considerable addition to the WDF [Western Desert Force]. Hopefully to reach Tripoli before Rommel or if not he's libel to get a very nasty surprise. Garrisoning Iceland would be useful as it would free up British forces sent there OTL, who were later replaced by Americans.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on May 1, 2016 19:29:50 GMT
Lordroel Think their good choices for the assembly lines. Possibly we could co-operate as I will be using the Centurion myself. Also possibly still using the Sexton. [Must admit other than the Centurion I don't really know what the Order of Battle of a post-war British Armoured Division was]. The Mustang's will be useful in a BoB as will be the Sea Fury's. The Sea Hurriances may struggle a bit depending on how much their modification for carrier use. However do remember that if their used in a BoB then: a) There will be some losses, due to attrition/accidents as well as combat which will mean they won't be available for use in your carriers [Not a point with the Mustang's but could be for other types. b) Not too sure I want to show too much of our hand by making any BoB a massacre of the Luftwaffe. We can hurt it a lot and protect Britain against most attacks but too dramatic a success could have unintended consequences. Thinking mainly do we still want Germany to attack Russia? If it does then it could be a longer and costlier war for the western powers because we won't have the Soviets destroying most of the German army. If they do and we do too much damage to Germany before the western powers can land on the continent in force you could have the Red Army on the Rhine, or even further west! Have to think through the consequences. The Mustang is OK, at least up to the P51-D and I suspect your P51-K's do but couldn't tell from a quick look on Wiki. However what do the B25's and C47's use? Presumably American engines? The B25 as 1st produced had " 1,600 hp Wright R-2600 "Double Cyclone" radial engines," according to its Wiki entry. As I say it should be possible to sort out some sort of deal but while the US is at peace you, or someone else, may have to pay. I'm planning on sending the bulk of my army to Britain with the expectation of possibly forming a considerable addition to the WDF [Western Desert Force]. Hopefully to reach Tripoli before Rommel or if not he's libel to get a very nasty surprise. Garrisoning Iceland would be useful as it would free up British forces sent there OTL, who were later replaced by Americans Check this out, this is British forces in 1950 in Korea, maybe this helps ( 1st Commonwealth Division). I could change the B-25 with the Bristol Brigand anti-shipping torpedo bomber, ground attack/dive bomber, it flew in 1946 and is British design, the C47 i could replace with the Bristol Freighter.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on May 1, 2016 20:00:31 GMT
Lordroel Think their good choices for the assembly lines. Possibly we could co-operate as I will be using the Centurion myself. Also possibly still using the Sexton. [Must admit other than the Centurion I don't really know what the Order of Battle of a post-war British Armoured Division was]. The Mustang's will be useful in a BoB as will be the Sea Fury's. The Sea Hurriances may struggle a bit depending on how much their modification for carrier use. However do remember that if their used in a BoB then: a) There will be some losses, due to attrition/accidents as well as combat which will mean they won't be available for use in your carriers [Not a point with the Mustang's but could be for other types. b) Not too sure I want to show too much of our hand by making any BoB a massacre of the Luftwaffe. We can hurt it a lot and protect Britain against most attacks but too dramatic a success could have unintended consequences. Thinking mainly do we still want Germany to attack Russia? If it does then it could be a longer and costlier war for the western powers because we won't have the Soviets destroying most of the German army. If they do and we do too much damage to Germany before the western powers can land on the continent in force you could have the Red Army on the Rhine, or even further west! Have to think through the consequences. The Mustang is OK, at least up to the P51-D and I suspect your P51-K's do but couldn't tell from a quick look on Wiki. However what do the B25's and C47's use? Presumably American engines? The B25 as 1st produced had " 1,600 hp Wright R-2600 "Double Cyclone" radial engines," according to its Wiki entry. As I say it should be possible to sort out some sort of deal but while the US is at peace you, or someone else, may have to pay. I'm planning on sending the bulk of my army to Britain with the expectation of possibly forming a considerable addition to the WDF [Western Desert Force]. Hopefully to reach Tripoli before Rommel or if not he's libel to get a very nasty surprise. Garrisoning Iceland would be useful as it would free up British forces sent there OTL, who were later replaced by Americans Check this out, this is British forces in 1950 in Korea, maybe this helps ( 1st Commonwealth Division). I could change the B-25 with the Bristol Brigand anti-shipping torpedo bomber, ground attack/dive bomber, it flew in 1946 and is British design, the C47 i could replace with the Bristol Freighter. Good catch, I didn't see this myself when looking. However did you notice the problems the entry reports with the Brigand, albeit that seems to have been largely in topical service. Notice it was replaced with the De Havilland Hornet, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Havilland_Hornet which since it 1st flew in 44 is definitely a valid a/c. I don't think it can dive bomb but can straff and carry a sizeable bomb load and Eric Brown seems to rate it highly. Possibly it might be an alternative. Also while the Brigand was used for attacking ships I'm not clear whether it was carrier operational rather than from land bases. The Hornet had a carrier version. The Freighter looks like a good choice as a transport a/c. Thanks for the link. Gives information about some units and equipment and hopefully I can dig up more. Been busy today with a game which took up most of my attention. I'm not addicted, I can stop playing any time there's a power cut. [Actually that's not going to be accurate much longer. I'm getting a laptop to use at my mum's so won't be totally dependent on the mains]. Steve
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on May 2, 2016 3:12:34 GMT
Good catch, I didn't see this myself when looking. However did you notice the problems the entry reports with the Brigand, albeit that seems to have been largely in topical service. Notice it was replaced with the De Havilland Hornet, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Havilland_Hornet which since it 1st flew in 44 is definitely a valid a/c. I don't think it can dive bomb but can straff and carry a sizeable bomb load and Eric Brown seems to rate it highly. Possibly it might be an alternative. Also while the Brigand was used for attacking ships I'm not clear whether it was carrier operational rather than from land bases. The Hornet had a carrier version. I can also choice the Bristol Blenheim Mk IV Light bomber/fighter instead but the De Havilland Hornet looks to be a good replacement of the B25.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on May 2, 2016 13:53:10 GMT
Lordroel Looking at the a/c types we're considering most use either the Merlin or the Bristol Centaurus, with the chief exception being the Bristol Freighter using the later Bristol Hurcules. If we presume the assembly lines are flexible enough to handle different types, i.e. your line can produce any type of Merlin, and I handle the Centaurus as one of my assembly lines then we have some cover for replacement engines for our at start a/c and also possibly later designs. As well as any surplus helping towards British needs. Thinking I will change my choices a bit. a) Replace the Tempest V with the Tempest II, which was actually a later design and uses the Centaurus for logistical simplicity. b) 40 York Transport a/c, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avro_York for transport duties. Uses up the last of my engine stockpile if my maths are correct. They use Merlin's so I can hopefully get extra spares when needed either from Britain or you. c) Replace the transistor assembly line with one for the Bristol Centarus engine, which equips a lot of my a/c. For you I would definitely go for the Hornet rather than the Blenheim, which was a very early a/c that is pretty much obsolete by 1940 standards even if still in widespread service in the RAF. Later Bristol a/c of the Beaufort/Beaufighter type would be better than the Blenheim. Steve
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Post by lordroel on May 2, 2016 14:07:39 GMT
Looking at the a/c types we're considering most use either the Merlin or the Bristol Centaurus, with the chief exception being the Bristol Freighter using the later Bristol Hurcules. If we presume the assembly lines are flexible enough to handle different types, i.e. your line can produce any type of Merlin, and I handle the Centaurus as one of my assembly lines then we have some cover for replacement engines for our at start a/c and also possibly later designs. As well as any surplus helping towards British needs. Steve I think i also now what the first 4 of my 15 air designs are. (1) Supermarine Spitfire Mk IX (late Merlin-powered variants), this plane uses the Rolls-Royce Merlin 60 series of which i have a assembly line fore. (2) de Havilland Sea Venom(3) Folland Gnat(4) Avro Shackleton(5) TBD. (6) TBD. (7) TBD. (8) TBD. (9) TBD. (10) TBD. (11) TBD. (12) TBD. (13) TBD. (14) TBD.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on May 2, 2016 15:14:14 GMT
Looking at the a/c types we're considering most use either the Merlin or the Bristol Centaurus, with the chief exception being the Bristol Freighter using the later Bristol Hurcules. If we presume the assembly lines are flexible enough to handle different types, i.e. your line can produce any type of Merlin, and I handle the Centaurus as one of my assembly lines then we have some cover for replacement engines for our at start a/c and also possibly later designs. As well as any surplus helping towards British needs. Steve I think i also now what the first 4 of my 15 air designs are. (1) Supermarine Spitfire Mk IX (late Merlin-powered variants), this plane uses the Rolls-Royce Merlin 60 series of which i have a assembly line fore. (2) de Havilland Sea Venom(3) Folland Gnat(4) Avro Shackleton(5) TBD. (6) TBD. (7) TBD. (8) TBD. (9) TBD. (10) TBD. (11) TBD. (12) TBD. (13) TBD. (14) TBD. Lordroel Sorry problem with the Gnat as the RAF Operational Requirement didn't date until 1952. For the Shackleton the prototype flew in Mar 49 so that's OK but the Mk I was quickly superseded by the better Mk II which would be beyond the cut off date for the design as it was only finalised in late 1950. [That's why I reverted to the earlier Lancaster version for my actual long range ASW vehicle, although a Shackleton Mk I design could be a useful step forward to work with]. The Sea Venom might be OK as although the prototype didn't fly until Apr 51 the designs might be before 1-1-50. Or you could go with the land based Venom which 1st flew in Sept 49 so definitely designs for that. Steve .
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on May 2, 2016 15:18:07 GMT
Sorry problem with the Gnat as the RAF Operational Requirement didn't date until 1952. For the Shackleton the prototype flew in Mar 49 so that's OK but the Mk I was quickly superseded by the better Mk II which would be beyond the cut off date for the design as it was only finalised in late 1950. [That's why I reverted to the earlier Lancaster version for my actual long range ASW vehicle, although a Shackleton Mk I design could be a useful step forward to work with]. The Sea Venom might be OK as although the prototype didn't fly until Apr 51 the designs might be before 1-1-50. Or you could go with the land based Venom which 1st flew in Sept 49 so definitely designs for that. No prob will look at planes that flew well before 1950, only thing is we must not duplicate them if we both end up on the same earth as that will not help.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on May 2, 2016 21:35:59 GMT
Not necessarily. Common a/c, especially when their the best available, have some advantages in supporting each other.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on May 3, 2016 2:50:30 GMT
Not necessarily. Common a/c, especially when their the best available, have some advantages in supporting each other. I working on my list of designs i will take with me, but it does not nesacary has to be all fill to the max does it.
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