stevep
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Post by stevep on Apr 17, 2016 17:27:49 GMT
Guys [not forgetting any girls out there] a small challenge. I remember a few years back a challenge on AH which I've modified a bit and added here for people to consider. Your approached by an ASB who offers you the ability to go back to 30-6-1940, with the following resources: 1) Yourself, given similar powers to Captain America, i.e. very strong, fast and agile and able to take a lot of punishment and heal quickly. 2) Military forces as detailed below:- Select a country and then from it equipment that were available on or before 1-1-1950. Note that the country who's equipment you choose need not be who you will support. So if you think say 1950's Soviet weaponry was the best for your planned purpose then you can deploy units from there but support say Britain, Germany, China or anyone else you care to. a) An army of up to 6 divisions, including supporting corps and army units [i.e. supply, HQ, artillery etc]. b) 300,000 tons of military shipping, from the same nation and time period allocated as you wish. c) 1500 'engines' of aircraft. i.e. a single engine fighter counts as 1, a twin engined one as two and say a Lancaster Bomber as 4. This total would include engines for naval a/c whether land or carrier based. Note that jet engined a/c are banned. d) You can juggle the above allocation, say swapping an army division for 50k of shipping or 250 engines. [The shipping allocation would be of little use if you were setting up in Mongolia say. ] e) Note that NO nuclear weapons are permitted! f) All those forces are manned by people who are in good health, trained to use the equipment [both physically and in terms of doctrine and equipment], have combat experience and are loyal to you and will obey your commands. 3) There is a base for this force which includes airfields and a port along with spares, supplies and food for a year's activity along with 3 months supply of munitions, at high rates of use. This also houses your forces and equipment and four production lines for products. Again those are any single items available in your selected country in 1950 and again this excludes any nuclear equipment. Further population, male and/or female are supplied as with 2f above to operate those facilities and provide ground-crew and maintenance personnel for the military units. This base occupies about 50 square miles which can be deployed anywhere with the following restrictions: a) It can not replace a large urban area, so it's deployment couldn't be used to destroy say a major city. b) It can't be used to make radical changes to the Earth's geography that affects geopolitics. i.e. you could raise an island from the sea bed but not say close the straits of Gibraltar. c) While the terrain can be shaped within reason, say to include a safe harbour for the fleet and flat terrain for airfields, accommodation etc you couldn't say have a bit of land about 100 yards wide and 500 miles long. 4) You can also have a number of designs for military and civil equipment, again limited to a cut off date of 1-1-1950 but this can include things like jet a/c and nuclear installations. Those can total: a) 15 military designs b) 15 naval designs c) 15 air designs d) 10 items of industrial or technological equipment or installations. 5) Finally you can have 10 books, which can date from any time up to the present day. Any interest and what would you decide to do? I have a few ideas and will try and put them together over the next few days. Clarification:- Just to make clear it only needs that the selected nation supplying your units has an example of that equipment on 1-1-1950. For instance Britain had HMS Vanguard in operation then. You could if you wish include in your force set-up say 2-3 Vanguard class BBs, despite the fact Britain historically only had one. Similarly with any other type of equipment. Similarly if you choose forces from a relatively small nation you are only limited to the type of equipment available for it, not the historical force-pool.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Apr 17, 2016 17:40:03 GMT
Nice, i like this, will try to put mine force together as well, reminds me of something that was don once on AH.com where you where send back to Normandy, France in 1943 with forces depending on you level of post you had, to bad IAN made it clear that those threads where only allowed on the Shared Word and those die died out.
I am thinking of choosing my country army in 1950 but the fact is that in 1950 we never had more than 4 divisions, Germany has not even a army in 1950, the Soviets i do not like, this leaves me with the United Kingdom, Unites, States, Canada, Sweden ore France as my main choices.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Apr 17, 2016 19:24:37 GMT
Nice, i like this, will try to put mine force together as well, reminds me of something that was don once on AH.com where you where send back to Normandy, France in 1943 with forces depending on you level of post you had, to bad IAN made it clear that those threads where only allowed on the Shared Word and those die died out. I am thinking of choosing my country army in 1950 but the fact is that in 1950 we never had more than 4 divisions, Germany has not even a army in 1950, the Soviets i do not like, this leaves me with the United Kingdom, Unites, States, Canada, Sweden ore France as my main choices. Lordroel That sounds very like the one that inspired this thread although that was definitely dates in June 40, just too late to prevent you rescuing France and possibly crushing the German blitzkrieg. Note that the equipment and other designs are from the selected army but that has no relation to what you do with it. Also the manpower is sources elsewhere so having insufficient manpower in the Dutch army in 1950 is no problem. There are other options, such as the Swiss, Australians etc. Or even German 44/45 equipment. As I say the personnel come from elsewhere and are loyal to you so something like that would be no problem, although the iron crosses might cause some awkward questions. Plus it might be rather dated compared to ~1950 equipment. I'm going to be choosing British, simply because it would be easier to support by 1940 Britain who I will be helping. After some thought have my starting location selected. Although it will cause problems for a lot of seabirds its idea for what I'm planning. Steve
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Apr 18, 2016 3:39:27 GMT
That sounds very like the one that inspired this thread although that was definitely dates in June 40, just too late to prevent you rescuing France and possibly crushing the German blitzkrieg. Yes that is the thread i am talking about, maybe i should create on here in the future if we have enough members. Note that the equipment and other designs are from the selected army but that has no relation to what you do with it. Also the manpower is sources elsewhere so having insufficient manpower in the Dutch army in 1950 is no problem. There are other options, such as the Swiss, Australians etc. Or even German 44/45 equipment. As I say the personnel come from elsewhere and are loyal to you so something like that would be no problem, although the iron crosses might cause some awkward questions. Plus it might be rather dated compared to ~1950 equipment. That could be good, a Netherlands army equipped with German 1945 equipment, otherwise i am thinking of India,Canada or even South Africa as my countries to chose from. I'm going to be choosing British, simply because it would be easier to support by 1940 Britain who I will be helping. After some thought have my starting location selected. Although it will cause problems for a lot of seabirds its idea for what I'm planning. Two of the countries i think am choosing might end up in a place that is hot but that allowed them to move quickly where they are needed.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Apr 18, 2016 8:19:23 GMT
That sounds very like the one that inspired this thread although that was definitely dates in June 40, just too late to prevent you rescuing France and possibly crushing the German blitzkrieg. Yes that is the thread i am talking about, maybe i should create on here in the future if we have enough members. Note that the equipment and other designs are from the selected army but that has no relation to what you do with it. Also the manpower is sources elsewhere so having insufficient manpower in the Dutch army in 1950 is no problem. There are other options, such as the Swiss, Australians etc. Or even German 44/45 equipment. As I say the personnel come from elsewhere and are loyal to you so something like that would be no problem, although the iron crosses might cause some awkward questions. Plus it might be rather dated compared to ~1950 equipment. That could be good, a Netherlands army equipped with German 1945 equipment, otherwise i am thinking of India,Canada or even South Africa as my countries to chose from. I'm going to be choosing British, simply because it would be easier to support by 1940 Britain who I will be helping. After some thought have my starting location selected. Although it will cause problems for a lot of seabirds its idea for what I'm planning. Two of the countries i think am choosing might end up in a place that is hot but that allowed them to move quickly where they are needed. Lordroel If you do set up one with a later start date then I suggest doing it with absolute force levels rather than based on number of posts as in the original AH one. I think that is unfair on newer or less active posters plus it really needs a site with quite a history unless you set the multiplier pretty high. I had [IIRC] several thousand posts on AH at the time so could get quite a decent force but if your fairly new to the site you would be badly handicapped. Possibly even more so with a high multiplier. When you say hot do you mean climate or political? Steve
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Apr 18, 2016 13:46:56 GMT
If you do set up one with a later start date then I suggest doing it with absolute force levels rather than based on number of posts as in the original AH one. I think that is unfair on newer or less active posters plus it really needs a site with quite a history unless you set the multiplier pretty high. I had [IIRC] several thousand posts on AH at the time so could get quite a decent force but if your fairly new to the site you would be badly handicapped. Possibly even more so with a high multiplier. i was thinking of calling it ASB Madness: dropped in Normandy 1941. But depending on the number of post i wanted to begin with: 1 post: a platoon of 1945 infantry. 10 post: a 1945 squadron made op of 12 armored cars. 20 post: a 1945 squadron made op of 12 tanks. 30 post: a 1945 artillery battery made op of 12 artillery of your choosing. 40 post: a 1945 elite infantry company (marines, airborne or army). 50 post: a 1945 squadron made op of 12 fighters. 60 post: a 1945 squadron made op of 12 light bombers. 70 post a 1945 squadron made op of 12 transport planes. 80 post: a 1945 squadron made op of 12 heavy bombers. 90 post: 10,000 tons of ammunition, spare parts and fuel located in a depot. 100 post: a fully stock airfield with facilities for your air force. So that would mean that you with 105 post would get. 6,300 infantry. 120 armored cars. 120 tanks. 120 artillery. 2 companies of elite infantry. 2 fighter squadrons. 1 transport squadron. 1 light bomber squadron. 1 heavy bomber squadron. 1 depot with 10,000 tons of ammunition, spare parts and fuel. 1 airfield for you 5 squadrons. When you say hot do you mean climate or political? That region is both.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Apr 18, 2016 15:26:00 GMT
Lordroel Well, unless we have several people working as a team, most would quickly be overwhelmed, although it might depend on when in 41. After Barbarossa starts the Germans have a lot committed in the east but even so such a force as mine would be quickly overwhelmed. You have 1619 posts so would have a lot more but even so Britain is thinly stretched and would be able to supply little help other than by air and I would probably have to plan to evacuate ASAP. I notice two problems with your set of facilities: a) A general one in that relying on the total post number is that unless you have a cut-off date you have a moving target. By the end of this week, especially if a couple of threads get active I could have 130-150 posts - even without any deliberate desire to boost my total. b) You might have to include some basing and supplies as a given. For instance anyone with 50-99 posts have aircraft but no base to operate them from. Similarly without the 90 post limit it sounds like their units would only have what ready ammo and supplies, especially food and fuel, they carry with them, which is likely to be very quickly exhausted. I'm a bit puzzled by some of the numbers. The fighter and probably the infantry total comes from 1 unit for each x posts. I.e. the 12 armoured cars for each 10 posts, giving a total of 120. However if so and I get 12 tanks for each 20 posts then I would have only 60 in total rather than 120 and similarly 36 artillery pieces rather than 120? In terms of the region and given that your Dutch then I'm guessing your base in my scenario is somewhere in what was the DEI? For myself I'm thinking of a major expansion of Rockall, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockall into a small island base. Hadn't realised it was that far north and thought it was more west of Ireland than NW so will probably be wetter and colder than I was initially thinking. Steve
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Apr 18, 2016 15:33:02 GMT
Lordroel Well, unless we have several people working as a team, most would quickly be overwhelmed, although it might depend on when in 41. After Barbarossa starts the Germans have a lot committed in the east but even so such a force as mine would be quickly overwhelmed. You have 1619 posts so would have a lot more but even so Britain is thinly stretched and would be able to supply little help other than by air and I would probably have to plan to evacuate ASAP. I notice two problems with your set of facilities: a) A general one in that relying on the total post number is that unless you have a cut-off date you have a moving target. By the end of this week, especially if a couple of threads get active I could have 130-150 posts - even without any deliberate desire to boost my total. b) You might have to include some basing and supplies as a given. For instance anyone with 50-99 posts have aircraft but no base to operate them from. Similarly without the 90 post limit it sounds like their units would only have what ready ammo and supplies, especially food and fuel, they carry with them, which is likely to be very quickly exhausted. I'm a bit puzzled by some of the numbers. The fighter and probably the infantry total comes from 1 unit for each x posts. I.e. the 12 armoured cars for each 10 posts, giving a total of 120. However if so and I get 12 tanks for each 20 posts then I would have only 60 in total rather than 120 and similarly 36 artillery pieces rather than 120? In terms of the region and given that your Dutch then I'm guessing your base in my scenario is somewhere in what was the DEI? For myself I'm thinking of a major expansion of Rockall, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockall into a small island base. Hadn't realised it was that far north and thought it was more west of Ireland than NW so will probably be wetter and colder than I was initially thinking. Steve It was just a idea while i working on the list of this thread, i think i pick the Canadians, question can divisions be also that where disbanded be used as i do not know if Canada had 6 active division in 1950.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Apr 18, 2016 17:06:06 GMT
Lordroel Well, unless we have several people working as a team, most would quickly be overwhelmed, although it might depend on when in 41. After Barbarossa starts the Germans have a lot committed in the east but even so such a force as mine would be quickly overwhelmed. You have 1619 posts so would have a lot more but even so Britain is thinly stretched and would be able to supply little help other than by air and I would probably have to plan to evacuate ASAP. I notice two problems with your set of facilities: a) A general one in that relying on the total post number is that unless you have a cut-off date you have a moving target. By the end of this week, especially if a couple of threads get active I could have 130-150 posts - even without any deliberate desire to boost my total. b) You might have to include some basing and supplies as a given. For instance anyone with 50-99 posts have aircraft but no base to operate them from. Similarly without the 90 post limit it sounds like their units would only have what ready ammo and supplies, especially food and fuel, they carry with them, which is likely to be very quickly exhausted. I'm a bit puzzled by some of the numbers. The fighter and probably the infantry total comes from 1 unit for each x posts. I.e. the 12 armoured cars for each 10 posts, giving a total of 120. However if so and I get 12 tanks for each 20 posts then I would have only 60 in total rather than 120 and similarly 36 artillery pieces rather than 120? In terms of the region and given that your Dutch then I'm guessing your base in my scenario is somewhere in what was the DEI? For myself I'm thinking of a major expansion of Rockall, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockall into a small island base. Hadn't realised it was that far north and thought it was more west of Ireland than NW so will probably be wetter and colder than I was initially thinking. Steve It was just a idea while i working on the list of this thread, i think i pick the Canadians, question can divisions be also that where disbanded be used as i do not know if Canada had 6 active division in 1950. I think the main problem with your idea, unless you have several players working as a team, is that you force them into hostile held territory at a time when Germany is still very strong, especially since its a position that Germany can quickly and [depending on the exact date] fairly easily reinforce. If the player forces could appear in friendly territory, or even enemy territory that Germany couldn't easily reinforce then there would be more prospects for their forces to play a lasting role. For instance possibly behind Axis lines in N Africa at a place of their choosing, which could be fatal for Rommel's forces at the right time. As I mentioned and I added a amendment to my OP, its only the type of units/equipment you select. The OTL force need not have that many units at that time. [Strongly suspect that Canada probably didn't have 6 active divisions at that time but as I say that's not relevant in this case.]
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Apr 18, 2016 17:21:17 GMT
It was just a idea while i working on the list of this thread, i think i pick the Canadians, question can divisions be also that where disbanded be used as i do not know if Canada had 6 active division in 1950. I think the main problem with your idea, unless you have several players working as a team, is that you force them into hostile held territory at a time when Germany is still very strong, especially since its a position that Germany can quickly and [depending on the exact date] fairly easily reinforce. If the player forces could appear in friendly territory, or even enemy territory that Germany couldn't easily reinforce then there would be more prospects for their forces to play a lasting role. For instance possibly behind Axis lines in N Africa at a place of their choosing, which could be fatal for Rommel's forces at the right time. As I mentioned and I added a amendment to my OP, its only the type of units/equipment you select. The OTL force need not have that many units at that time. [Strongly suspect that Canada probably didn't have 6 active divisions at that time but as I say that's not relevant in this case.] So far i can tell the Canadian army had 6 divisions in use during world war II, i will use them and upgrade them with the latest British or Canadian weapons that where used in 1950. My list of divisions i have:1st Canadian Infantry Division 2nd Canadian Infantry Division 3rd Canadian Infantry Division 3rd Canadian Infantry Division 4th Canadian (Armoured) Division 5th Canadian (Armoured) Division 6th Canadian Infantry Division So i will have 4 infantry and two armored divisions, i think i also have a location chosen of Iceland. My list of the 300,000 ton in military shipping:2 Colossus-class light aircraft carrier, (36,800 tons). 4 Minotaur-class light cruisers (32,200 tons). 12 V-class destroyers (21,324 tons). 24 Algerine-class minesweepers (24,720 tons). 24 River-class frigates (43,920 tons). 24 Flower-class (modified) corvettes (24,000 tons). At this moment i have a total of 185,000 tons of the 300,000 tons available, i think i fill the rest up with smaller ships like landing craft and other in order to transport my 6 divisions where i need them.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Apr 18, 2016 22:52:52 GMT
Lordroel Some interesting options there. You could rely on the RN and merchant marine to ship units to Britain once your contacted them and asured them your friendly to free up the outstanding naval tonnage for other uses if you wish. A balanced small fleet which could be pretty useful for anti-sub use especially. Gone into more detail than I had so far. Must do some actual checking up myself on some of the details.
As I said your not limited by historical numbers so could have say 6 Arm Divs and rely on the British and other allies to provide infantry for instance. Unless your expecting to be fighting on your own soon.
Steve
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Post by lordroel on Apr 19, 2016 3:49:32 GMT
Some interesting options there. You could rely on the RN and merchant marine to ship units to Britain once your contacted them and asured them your friendly to free up the outstanding naval tonnage for other uses if you wish. A balanced small fleet which could be pretty useful for anti-sub use especially. Gone into more detail than I had so far. Must do some actual checking up myself on some of the details. The thing is, the British i can convince easily, it the Canadians i have to convince because with from nowhere there are now 6 Canadian divisions with military hardware 10 years more modern what they have. As I said your not limited by historical numbers so could have say 6 Arm Divs and rely on the British and other allies to provide infantry for instance. Unless your expecting to be fighting on your own soon. I think i keep 1 division as garrison on Iceland, 1 division is send back to Canada for training the Canadian army and that leaves me with 2 infantry and 2 armored divisions which i can use where it is needed. Also i found a very good site about Canadian hardware called canadiansoldiers.com, so i think that i can use that to find out what i need as tanks for my two armor divisions.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Apr 30, 2016 16:39:11 GMT
As I threatened, although it took longer than I expected I put some thought into my initial set-up. Far from complete but a few ideas. Equipment comes from 1950 Britain a) Land forces – 3 Arm divs + two brigades of special forces, along with army units, such as central artillery. Working on the basis that 1940 troops can bulk out the force when fighting is required, while they are also being upgraded to 1950 standard, or at least as close as practical. b) Naval Forces – The cut in land forces allows me to increase shipping to 400k. Doing this because ships take a llot longer to build than other units and many are needed now. Assuming here: i) 6 Majestic class CVL en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1942_Design_Light_Fleet_Carrier#Majestic_class 13,200 tons, ~50 a/c. Those are large enough to handle jet a/c when developed and had angled flight decks when completed. Plus they will handle the heavier late 40's a/c available. Basically to provide some expertise for the expansion of the FAA and help in hunting raiders, including any BC/BBs the Germans send out. Also possibly to be sent east in emergency against the Japanese. A/c will be summarised in the Air section. ii) 10 Dido class AA CLs, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dido-class_cruiser 6,000 ton. Will take the latter designs with 4.5” guns as better for AA action. To act as escorts for larger warships, including the CVLs if they go into range of enemy a/c iii) 50 Daring class DD's, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daring-class_destroyer_(1949) , 2,800 tons, to supplement the convoy escorts and provide some additional cover, against subs, for the carrier force. iv) 50 Loch class DE's, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loch-class_frigate 1,400 tons equipped with lastest ~1950 ASW suite. The core of the addition to the RN to help win the U boat war ASAP. v) 30 Algerine class minesweepers, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algerine-class_minesweeper ~1000 tons – since early in the war mines, especially the German magnetic mines, were a serious problem. vi) 15 Amphion class SS, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amphion-class_submarine 1,400 tons. Basically to provide an initial force and hopefully to be joined by British built later ships of the class, to fight the Japanese in the Far East. All ships adopted as examples would have been in 1950 with latest weapons fix. This should give then a technological edge against their opponents. Basically, since the start date means the Fall of France has occurred there's no chance of defeating Hitler quickly so planning on a long war and minimising losses while we build up the strength and seek allies to liberate Europe and if necessary [as is likely] defeat Japan. As it is I caused myself a bit of a problem selecting Britain as my source nation. Between economic exhaustion and the massive amount of stuff already in service there was very little new construction immediately post WWII so a lot of the above were at least designed and in most cases actually saw service in WWII. All I think actually had one unit in service by 1-1-50 so they meet the conditions of the OP. c) Air Forces – 1500 engines worth. To include: i) 120 Lancaster's modified for MPA [Martime Patrol Aircraft] en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avro_Lancaster#Postwar ii) 120 Mosquito's, in night fighter mode en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Havilland_Mosquito iii) 400 Hawker Tempest V's, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawker_Tempest , as the basic addition to the daytime air defence. It feels heretical somehow ignoring the Spitfire but I think the Tempest has the better potential. Designs of later mark Spits may be included in the design list. iv) 180 Hawker Sea Fury, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawker_Sea_Fury for protection of the Carrier force. v) 120 Fairey Baraccuda, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairey_Barracuda for torpedo/dive bomber attack. Not a great choice but none of the candidates developed post-war, i.e. the Firebrand, Spearfish or Wyvern seem to have been that competent. Hopefully it would still service efficiently early in the war while a successor was developed. Have some spare engines left but may change something. Also there would be the need for training a/c if those units are to see service generally. 3) Forces are based on the island of Avalon, a 50mile square island located about 100 miles SW of Rockall, at the opposite end of the uplift zone that Rockall sits on. [Both to avoid removing the home for seabirds that Rockall provides and get Avalon in a better location for my needs.] Also 4 production lines for individual items a) Penicillin production – will save a lot of lives, both in forces and civilian lives. b) Proximity fuse warheads – working on the basis this gives the necessary background for a lot of other radar c) Transistor – should enable a fairly rapid revolution of electronics and associated weapons. d) TBD 4) You can also have a number of designs for military and civil equipment, again limited to a cut off date of 1-1-1950 but this can include things like jet a/c and nuclear installations. Those can total: a) 15 military designs 1) - All to be decided b) 15 naval designs 1) – Malta class CV, latest design en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malta-class_aircraft_carrier The rest TBD c) 15 air designs 1) – Avon jet engine, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolls-Royce_Avon 2) – De Havilland Vampire en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Havilland_Vampire 3) – Hawker Hunter en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawker_Hunter 4) – Canberra bomber en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Electric_Canberra 5) – Grand Slam bomb en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Slam_%28bomb%29 The rest TBD d) 10 items of industrial or technological equipment or installations. 1) – Colossus II computer design en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colossus_computer 2) – Design for critical pile 3) – Design for Fat Man plutonium bomb The rest TBD 5) Finally you can have 10 books, which can date from any time up to the present day. 1) – Suitable book on Cambridge spy ring and infiltation of British security by Soviet spies 2) – Suitable book on development of early computers 3) – Suitable book on development of nuclear weapons. The rest TBD Anyway, initial thoughts. Assuming that all equipment I'm using will come with designs/plans so no need for separate designs for them. Steve
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Apr 30, 2016 16:44:32 GMT
As I threatened, although it took longer than I expected I put some thought into my initial set-up. Far from complete but a few ideas. Equipment comes from 1950 Britain a) Land forces – 3 Arm divs + two brigades of special forces, along with army units, such as central artillery. Working on the basis that 1940 troops can bulk out the force when fighting is required, while they are also being upgraded to 1950 standard, or at least as close as practical. b) Naval Forces – The cut in land forces allows me to increase shipping to 400k. Doing this because ships take a llot longer to build than other units and many are needed now. Assuming here: i) 6 Majestic class CVL en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1942_Design_Light_Fleet_Carrier#Majestic_class 13,200 tons, ~50 a/c. Those are large enough to handle jet a/c when developed and had angled flight decks when completed. Plus they will handle the heavier late 40's a/c available. Basically to provide some expertise for the expansion of the FAA and help in hunting raiders, including any BC/BBs the Germans send out. Also possibly to be sent east in emergency against the Japanese. A/c will be summarised in the Air section. ii) 10 Dido class AA CLs, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dido-class_cruiser 6,000 ton. Will take the latter designs with 4.5” guns as better for AA action. To act as escorts for larger warships, including the CVLs if they go into range of enemy a/c iii) 50 Daring class DD's, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daring-class_destroyer_(1949) , 2,800 tons, to supplement the convoy escorts and provide some additional cover, against subs, for the carrier force. iv) 50 Loch class DE's, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loch-class_frigate 1,400 tons equipped with lastest ~1950 ASW suite. The core of the addition to the RN to help win the U boat war ASAP. v) 30 Algerine class minesweepers, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algerine-class_minesweeper ~1000 tons – since early in the war mines, especially the German magnetic mines, were a serious problem. vi) 15 Amphion class SS, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amphion-class_submarine 1,400 tons. Basically to provide an initial force and hopefully to be joined by British built later ships of the class, to fight the Japanese in the Far East. All ships adopted as examples would have been in 1950 with latest weapons fix. This should give then a technological edge against their opponents. Basically, since the start date means the Fall of France has occurred there's no chance of defeating Hitler quickly so planning on a long war and minimising losses while we build up the strength and seek allies to liberate Europe and if necessary [as is likely] defeat Japan. As it is I caused myself a bit of a problem selecting Britain as my source nation. Between economic exhaustion and the massive amount of stuff already in service there was very little new construction immediately post WWII so a lot of the above were at least designed and in most cases actually saw service in WWII. All I think actually had one unit in service by 1-1-50 so they meet the conditions of the OP. c) Air Forces – 1500 engines worth. To include: i) 120 Lancaster's modified for MPA [Martime Patrol Aircraft] en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avro_Lancaster#Postwar ii) 120 Mosquito's, in night fighter mode en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Havilland_Mosquito iii) 400 Hawker Tempest V's, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawker_Tempest , as the basic addition to the daytime air defence. It feels heretical somehow ignoring the Spitfire but I think the Tempest has the better potential. Designs of later mark Spits may be included in the design list. iv) 180 Hawker Sea Fury, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawker_Sea_Fury for protection of the Carrier force. v) 120 Fairey Baraccuda, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairey_Barracuda for torpedo/dive bomber attack. Not a great choice but none of the candidates developed post-war, i.e. the Firebrand, Spearfish or Wyvern seem to have been that competent. Hopefully it would still service efficiently early in the war while a successor was developed. Have some spare engines left but may change something. Also there would be the need for training a/c if those units are to see service generally. 3) Forces are based on the island of Avalon, a 50mile square island located about 100 miles SW of Rockall, at the opposite end of the uplift zone that Rockall sits on. [Both to avoid removing the home for seabirds that Rockall provides and get Avalon in a better location for my needs.] Also 4 production lines for individual items a) Penicillin production – will save a lot of lives, both in forces and civilian lives. b) Proximity fuse warheads – working on the basis this gives the necessary background for a lot of other radar c) Transistor – should enable a fairly rapid revolution of electronics and associated weapons. d) TBD 4) You can also have a number of designs for military and civil equipment, again limited to a cut off date of 1-1-1950 but this can include things like jet a/c and nuclear installations. Those can total: a) 15 military designs 1) - All to be decided b) 15 naval designs 1) – Malta class CV, latest design en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malta-class_aircraft_carrier The rest TBD c) 15 air designs 1) – Avon jet engine, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolls-Royce_Avon 2) – De Havilland Vampire en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Havilland_Vampire 3) – Hawker Hunter en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawker_Hunter 4) – Canberra bomber en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Electric_Canberra 5) – Grand Slam bomb en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Slam_%28bomb%29 The rest TBD d) 10 items of industrial or technological equipment or installations. 1) – Colossus II computer design en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colossus_computer 2) – Design for critical pile 3) – Design for Fat Man plutonium bomb The rest TBD 5) Finally you can have 10 books, which can date from any time up to the present day. 1) – Suitable book on Cambridge spy ring and infiltation of British security by Soviet spies 2) – Suitable book on development of early computers 3) – Suitable book on development of nuclear weapons. The rest TBD Anyway, initial thoughts. Assuming that all equipment I'm using will come with designs/plans so no need for separate designs for them. Steve Thanks i can use this as a base of mine own force. Question do our two armies end up on the same earth our separate earths.
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stevep
Fleet admiral
Posts: 23,482
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Post by stevep on Apr 30, 2016 17:42:09 GMT
Lordroel Can play it either way. My set up assumes no allies from here but it would be interesting with a joint effort although get a couple more people along and, presuming we all agree, Adolph could have some serious problems very quickly. Steve
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