mspence
Warrant Officer
Posts: 282 
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Post by mspence on Dec 9, 2023 5:01:10 GMT
No George Wasington-Successful Whiskey Rebellion?
Let's say the American Revolution still succeeds without him, how would the Whiskey Rebellion have played out?
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Post by Otto Kretschmer on Dec 13, 2023 12:08:56 GMT
WI: no Genghis Khan, what happens to Kievan Rus?
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Post by Max Sinister on Dec 13, 2023 23:21:05 GMT
WI: no Genghis Khan, what happens to Kievan Rus?
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Post by Otto Kretschmer on Dec 17, 2023 10:40:08 GMT
AHC/WI: a larger Vinland.
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Zyobot
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Just a time-traveling robot stranded on Earth.
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Post by Zyobot on Dec 26, 2023 23:51:52 GMT
'AHC: Austronesians Colonize The World'. That is, the Austronesian peoples go on a global empire-building spree and spread their cultures, customs, and languages as far and wide as OTL West. Even IOTL, they built some pretty impressive trade networks and maritime empires, so it's a shame their momentum fizzled out and gave way to European dominance instead.  |
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Post by TheRomanSlayer on Dec 27, 2023 1:44:16 GMT
'AHC: Austronesians Colonize The World'. That is, the Austronesian peoples go on a global empire-building spree and spread their cultures, customs, and languages as far and wide as OTL West. Even IOTL, they built some pretty impressive trade networks and maritime empires, so it's a shame their momentum fizzled out and gave way to European dominance instead. Your best bet would be either a surviving Srivijaya Empire or Majapahit Empire not falling apart. Coupled with either keeping the entire Nusantara Archipelago as Hindu, become Buddhist, or become Muslim like OTL. Nusantara would be basically like Japan, but on steroids and more powerful than Turkey. Plus possibly conquering Champa before the Vietnamese does, and even taking over the islands of what is now the Philippines. The Austronesians would be to Asia, what the Slavs are to Europe. Fun fact: Madagascar is also the closest thing that we got to an Afro-Austronesian nation-state. |
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Zyobot
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Just a time-traveling robot stranded on Earth.
Posts: 17,352
Likes: 7,260
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Post by Zyobot on Dec 27, 2023 2:01:47 GMT
'AHC: Austronesians Colonize The World'. That is, the Austronesian peoples go on a global empire-building spree and spread their cultures, customs, and languages as far and wide as OTL West. Even IOTL, they built some pretty impressive trade networks and maritime empires, so it's a shame their momentum fizzled out and gave way to European dominance instead. Your best bet would be either a surviving Srivijaya Empire or Majapahit Empire not falling apart. Coupled with either keeping the entire Nusantara Archipelago as Hindu, become Buddhist, or become Muslim like OTL. Nusantara would be basically like Japan, but on steroids and more powerful than Turkey. Plus possibly conquering Champa before the Vietnamese does, and even taking over the islands of what is now the Philippines. The Austronesians would be to Asia, what the Slavs are to Europe. Fun fact: Madagascar is also the closest thing that we got to an Afro-Austronesian nation-state. An interesting proposal. Thanks for replying. 👍
Upon reflection, I wonder where other players fit into this? After all, China's not going anywhere; even with its isolationist tendencies, I imagine it's only a matter of time before Austronesia comes knocking on the Ming Dynasty's door and inflicts their own "Moral power of the 24-pounder!".
Furthermore, what becomes of Europe IATL? If Austronesians are colonizing the world instead, then it stands to reason Europe (for one reason or another) isn't up to the task here. Not saying we need to screw Europe over outright, but at the same time, it can't be the world-conquering hegemon it turned out to be IOTL, either.
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575
Captain
There is no Purgatory for warcriminals - they go directly to Hell!
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Post by 575 on Dec 27, 2023 10:09:29 GMT
Your best bet would be either a surviving Srivijaya Empire or Majapahit Empire not falling apart. Coupled with either keeping the entire Nusantara Archipelago as Hindu, become Buddhist, or become Muslim like OTL. Nusantara would be basically like Japan, but on steroids and more powerful than Turkey. Plus possibly conquering Champa before the Vietnamese does, and even taking over the islands of what is now the Philippines. The Austronesians would be to Asia, what the Slavs are to Europe. Fun fact: Madagascar is also the closest thing that we got to an Afro-Austronesian nation-state. An interesting proposal. Thanks for replying. 👍
Upon reflection, I wonder where other players fit into this? After all, China's not going anywhere; even with its isolationist tendencies, I imagine it's only a matter of time before Austronesia comes knocking on the Ming Dynasty's door and inflicts their own "Moral power of the 24-pounder!".
Furthermore, what becomes of Europe IATL? If Austronesians are colonizing the world instead, then it stands to reason Europe (for one reason or another) isn't up to the task here. Not saying we need to screw Europe over outright, but at the same time, it can't be the world-conquering hegemon it turned out to be IOTL, either.
Regarding Europe the Austronesians "only" reached Madagaskar 2000 years ago i.e. at a time when the Roman Empire, Parthian Empire and various Indian Empires flourished. Africa seems a better choice also in regard to their agricultural package. Not that I view them as inferior but it would include some head-banging going for Europe via the Middle East or a lenghty route around Africa. Along this route they may also stumble upon Brazil.
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Zyobot
Fleet admiral
Just a time-traveling robot stranded on Earth.
Posts: 17,352
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Post by Zyobot on Dec 27, 2023 20:54:04 GMT
An interesting proposal. Thanks for replying. 👍
Upon reflection, I wonder where other players fit into this? After all, China's not going anywhere; even with its isolationist tendencies, I imagine it's only a matter of time before Austronesia comes knocking on the Ming Dynasty's door and inflicts their own "Moral power of the 24-pounder!".
Furthermore, what becomes of Europe IATL? If Austronesians are colonizing the world instead, then it stands to reason Europe (for one reason or another) isn't up to the task here. Not saying we need to screw Europe over outright, but at the same time, it can't be the world-conquering hegemon it turned out to be IOTL, either.
Regarding Europe the Austronesians "only" reached Madagaskar 2000 years ago i.e. at a time when the Roman Empire, Parthian Empire and various Indian Empires flourished. Africa seems a better choice also in regard to their agricultural package. Not that I view them as inferior but it would include some head-banging going for Europe via the Middle East or a lenghty route around Africa. Along this route they may also stumble upon Brazil.
Good point. In which case, I suppose Madagascar would make a good gateway into the African heartland. Curious as to what actual Austronesian imperialism would look like once the ball gets rolling, though; hopefully, not quite as brutal as OTL Europeans were, slave trade and all. Also wondering what ATL Europe’s exact reach looks like here? Judging by the timing, I’m guessing we need a second POD to blunt their efforts, as well, if the Austronesians only start colonizing the world in Majapahit or Srivijaya times (which, admittedly, is comparable to when Europeans really hit their stride IOTL). Even then, I’m assuming that if they stumble upon Brazil, they’re still insisting on having their slice of the pie — more so than OTL Austronesians during the Age of Exploration as we know it, at least. |
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575
Captain
There is no Purgatory for warcriminals - they go directly to Hell!
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Post by 575 on Dec 28, 2023 10:03:40 GMT
Regarding Europe the Austronesians "only" reached Madagaskar 2000 years ago i.e. at a time when the Roman Empire, Parthian Empire and various Indian Empires flourished. Africa seems a better choice also in regard to their agricultural package. Not that I view them as inferior but it would include some head-banging going for Europe via the Middle East or a lenghty route around Africa. Along this route they may also stumble upon Brazil.
Good point. In which case, I suppose Madagascar would make a good gateway into the African heartland. Curious as to what actual Austronesian imperialism would look like once the ball gets rolling, though; hopefully, not quite as brutal as OTL Europeans were, slave trade and all. Also wondering what ATL Europe’s exact reach looks like here? Judging by the timing, I’m guessing we need a second POD to blunt their efforts, as well, if the Austronesians only start colonizing the world in Majapahit or Srivijaya times (which, admittedly, is comparable to when Europeans really hit their stride IOTL). Even then, I’m assuming that if they stumble upon Brazil, they’re still insisting on having their slice of the pie — more so than OTL Austronesians during the Age of Exploration as we know it, at least. I haven't looked into SEA for effects of Fimbul Winter 536-40 though Sriyijaya seems to emerge during late 7 century that would be the candidate to move upon the Europeans in Europe and the Middle East as both these areas suffered from the effects; which in the Middle Eastern Empires - in my view - led to an influx of herders to replace agriculturalist's hit by the drought there following 536 which had long lasting effects.
I would however see Africa as the real interest of the Austronesians and the place to colonize - if the Africans themselves can't resisit them of which I'm not really knowledable.
A strong colonization during Majapahit era isn't all that bad though I think they should again put their effort into Africa and then fend the few Portuguese explorers off - at this point the Arabs however is also a big factor to take into consideration as they may upset such efforts which they may seem to detracht from their trade with India. Aaand not to count out the Indians themselves!
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Zyobot
Fleet admiral
Just a time-traveling robot stranded on Earth.
Posts: 17,352
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Post by Zyobot on Jan 4, 2024 1:15:35 GMT
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Post by Otto Kretschmer on Jan 7, 2024 18:41:00 GMT
AHC: wank Buddhism as much as possible.
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Post by TheRomanSlayer on Jan 7, 2024 18:44:12 GMT
AHC: wank Buddhism as much as possible. Maybe convert a good chunk of the Cumans that lived in Central Asia to Buddhism would be a start. Plus possibly a Buddhist Golden Horde where both Sartaq and Berke kill each other, and one of the Golden Horde's other rulers embrace Buddhism. Or alternatively, prevent the Qing from rising, but have the Four Oirats form a dynasty that conquers all of China, parts of Central Asia, and even make an attempt at colonizing Australia. |
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Post by Otto Kretschmer on Jan 7, 2024 21:04:13 GMT
AHC/WI: India with merchants as the dominant caste. How would it differ from Brahmin dominated India?
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jan 8, 2024 16:29:28 GMT
AHC: wank Buddhism as much as possible.
Possibly have Islam still-born or unable to conquer Iran. That removes one big competitor in much of Asia east of Iran and Zoroastrianism doesn't seem to have been good at proselytize so it might not be a great threat in itself to Buddhism in the regions to the east.
Another, somewhat earlier PoD is that for whatever reason Buddhism stays powerful in India rather than Hinduism staging a come back. Although that depends on how much Buddhism's dominance was due to actual large scale popularity or simply being popular in the ruling elites for a while.
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