Miscellaneous: Before 1900 (Alternate) History Thread

Pompey's Rome: WI Pompey had won the Roman Civil War?

‘Kievan Rus Without The Mongol Invasions’.

AHC: make an alphabetic writing system reach China before 200 BC.

'President Hannibal Hamlin'.

What if Spain neglects Alta California throughout its American colonial career?

Every century starting in the 1500s, the Spanish did voyages along the difficult to navigate, foggy coast of Alta California, and at least starting the second time around in 1605 started seriously considering a colonization attempt. But they cancelled that aspiration, just having a few weak, poorly run missions in Baja California over the next 150 years, only establishing their first real permanent colony & mission at San Diego (de Alcala) in 1769. Jose Galvez, Spain's Visitador to New Spain, was an avid supporter of the effort, and tried to promote frontier development in California, using preemption of potential British competition (a premature estimate) or Dutch competition (an imaginary estimate) to justify the effort, starting in the 1760s, but he could not get endorsement of the Spanish Court to go ahead. However, he scored a breakthrough in the Spanish Court when he and the Court got corroboration of his general fears from the Spanish Ambassador to St. Petersburg. Russia. who heard about Empress Catherine the Great's alleged plans to colonize the northwest coast of North America down as far south as California. He got endorsement to move by 1769, starting San Diego then, Monterey in 1770, Sand Francisco in 1776, and the rest is history.

What if the Spanish Ambassador in Russia never hears anything of Catherine the Great's plans for Russian American colonization? Jose Galvez never gets Royal approval to unleash Junipero Serra and the Franciscans on Baja and then Alta California and their natives. Variable possible outcomes lie ahead: (a) an empty (of Europeans) indigenous California persists, at least through the time of the American Revolutionary War, 1774-1783?. (b) British California set up in the 1780s (1784 or later) or 1790s, possibly as a haven for American loyalists? (c) French explorer, La Perouse, establishes a French claim on his global Pacific cruise, that is reported back to France via a mail packet, even if, like OTL, he and all his hands are ultimately lost before making it back to the Indian Ocean or France? Possibly, France *just* starts up a fresh colony at Californie on the eve of la revolucion at home. - a wacky variant of (c) could be if in this world, Napoleon Buonaparte had a twin, named Giacomo, who unlike Napoleon, passed muster for the Perouse voyage....Napoleon in OTL tried out and made 'the finals' but was not selected for the crew. Giacomo was recorded as bravely and cleverly serving in the landing party in Californie, in the the account of the voyage that Perouse mailed back from Kamchatka [this really happened], but is lost with the rest of the expedition around New Guinea. Years later when Napoleon has become French Consul, and warlord supreme of western Europe, dominated Spain and extorted back Louisiana from Spain at San Ildefonso, for sentimental reason he also compels the Spanish, to also cede to France the pretty much still Spanish-vacant, or just freshly settled, Alte Californie, where his long lost twin brother pioneered, to France. When the Haitian revolt/French defeat and renewed war with Britain and Continental Coalition for him to give up his American dream then, Alte Californie, consisting of California, Nevada, northwest Arizona, Utah, Colorado, basically, is sold to the young USA along with the Louisiana territory. [Phew, that was long, and contrived]. (d) Spain begin Mission settlements and then ranches. probably run by Franciscans, like OTL, just starting later, from the 1783-84 timeframe after the Bourbon-Yankee versus Britain war is over, and Spanish-Hispanic California history is basically 15 years shorter than OTL with an accordingly smaller Californio population and shallower cultural roots before Yankee, British, and other maritime European types start influencing the coast and port towns of the province.

Eventually, but it might just be a straight line from indigenous control to USA control. Or a two-stop line with the stop being either indigenous--->Anglo-American condominium---->USA [with British North America getting lands north of the Columbia river (Washington state), or Oregon & northward] or indigenous-->Mexican-->USA



More or less what I had in mind. So you're just suggesting, they would not *start* on the west coast in California in 1784 right out of the gate because it is so far, but they could roll south into California from Oregon a little later anyway? Sure. And they started to be active in the Oregon area, Vancouver island, not too long after anyway, with the Nootka sound crisis of 1790.




For sure.....

The only other alternative for the French I guess would be Perouse makes a claim, France starts colony that is abortive and short-lived, abandoned, because the revolution starts. Since the colony is abandoned, nobody occupies it. The area lay dormant (for Europeans) and uncolonized by Europeans a couple more decades. France cannot really do anything about it because of the Revolutionary and Napoleon Wars, where its focus was so continental.

But by 1830, or a couple years earlier, Algeria proved that France is allowed to colonize again, and maybe the French King wants to revive the claim and thumb his nose at the Monroe Doctrine idea, and the Jackson Administration does not have the transcontinental power projection to throw a French garrison and settlement out?




I don't think non-Mexicanization would likely lead to delay in Americanization. Oregon was not definitively owned or colonized by a single power, but the USA was keen to start staking a claim and using the Oregon Trail. And even a late starting Alta California, by 15 years, 20 years, 30 years would have its most natural association with New Spain/Mexico, and probably even *less* local separatist tendency than OTL. It will just be less populous, developed, and Mexico City politicians will care even less about it.