baloo
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Post by baloo on Apr 8, 2017 15:18:15 GMT
In OTL, Clare Boothe Luce's daughter was killed in an automobile accident on 11 Jan 1944. As a result of that, she converted to Catholicism in 1946. Suppose, however, that her daughter survived the accident or that there was no accident at all. She never became a Catholic, and without that electoral impediment, was therefore chosen as Eisenhower's running mate in 1952. As VP, she has the opportunity to do all the diplomatic things she did in OTL, plus several more. This positions her very well to run for President herself in 1960. Who would she pick for VP? Would she beat Kennedy?
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Apr 8, 2017 15:25:14 GMT
In OTL, Clare Boothe Luce's daughter was killed in an automobile accident on 11 Jan 1944. As a result of that, she converted to Catholicism in 1946. Suppose, however, that her daughter survived the accident or that there was no accident at all. She never became a Catholic, and without that electoral impediment, was therefore chosen as Eisenhower's running mate in 1952. As VP, she has the opportunity to do all the diplomatic things she did in OTL, plus several more. This positions her very well to run for President herself in 1960. Who would she pick for VP? Would she beat Kennedy? Was the United states ready for a female vice-president in 1952. |
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baloo
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Post by baloo on Apr 8, 2017 15:42:07 GMT
A very good question. I think she's the most likely to be acceptable, because of her wide range of accomplishments and abilities. But it is a stretch.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Apr 8, 2017 15:49:14 GMT
A very good question. I think she's the most likely to be acceptable, because of her wide range of accomplishments and abilities. But it is a stretch. Than is the question would a Eisenhower/Luce ticket win, i still not think that in that time period the United States people where eager to have a female Vice-President. |
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baloo
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Post by baloo on Apr 8, 2017 16:03:48 GMT
No, they weren't eager, but Luce wouldn't have been a random pick like Ferraro. She was prominent for lots of reasons, and I thought of this largely because she'd have added the same anti-communist element to the ticket that Nixon did in OTL. And, of course, OTL Eisenhower had a landslide, and I doubt enough would have voted Dem because of Luce to change that very much.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Apr 8, 2017 16:20:51 GMT
No, they weren't eager, but Luce wouldn't have been a random pick like Ferraro. She was prominent for lots of reasons, and I thought of this largely because she'd have added the same anti-communist element to the ticket that Nixon did in OTL. And, of course, OTL Eisenhower had a landslide, and I doubt enough would have voted Dem because of Luce to change that very much. So we can assume that even if Eisenhower/Luce ticket win in the 1952 election, it will not be the landslide as OTL as some voters will not pick a president who has a female as his running mate. |
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baloo
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Post by baloo on Apr 8, 2017 16:54:56 GMT
Unless it's offset by women voting for Eisenhower because of her. But, assuming that Ike would lose 2% of his voters because of her, looking at this map state by state: uselectionatlas.org/RESULTS/national.php?year=1952It looks like he'd lose Tennessee and Missouri to Stevenson, but that's about all. Still a landslide. Of course, I just pulled the 2% out of the air. |
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Apr 8, 2017 16:59:23 GMT
Unless it's offset by women voting for Eisenhower because of her. But, assuming that Ike would lose 2% of his voters because of her, looking at this map state by state: uselectionatlas.org/RESULTS/national.php?year=1952It looks like he'd lose Tennessee and Missouri to Stevenson, but that's about all. Still a landslide. Of course, I just pulled the 2% out of the air. Well i think you are right, but then in 1960 i do not see Clare Boothe Luce defeat Kennedy in 1960. |
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baloo
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Post by baloo on Apr 8, 2017 23:20:46 GMT
Added some:
Compared to OTL, Ike's choice of Luce slightly hurts his 1952 vote totals. He fails to carry Missouri and Tennessee, but gains Louisiana, giving him a net loss of 14 electoral votes, so it's
Eisenhower 428
Stevenson 103
Still a very comfortable landslide. In 1956, his lead increases, and he carries Missouri and Tennessee, adding 24 electoral votes to total:
Eisenhower 452
Stevenson 79
An even more impressive landslide.
As the 1960 races for the nomination heat up, Eisenhower endorses Luce early on, citing her brilliant diplomatic efforts on his administration's behalf. Opposed for the nomination by both Rockefeller and Goldwater, she is perceived as the moderate candidate, and is nominated on the second ballot at the Chicago convention after Goldwater withdraws and endorses her. Seeing that she was going to be running against Jack Kennedy, she attempted to offset the allure of his military service (and to distance herself somewhat from Eisenhower) by selecting General Matthew Ridgeway as her running mate. The election was close, but Luce squeaked out a victory by carrying all the states Nixon did in OTL, except for Washington State, and also carried Michigan, New Jersey, Missouri, and Minnesota, which Nixon did not. That gave her 270 electoral votes, just barely enough, but enough, to win the Presidency.
President Luce's cabinet picks were no surprise to most of those who knew her:
Secretary of State Richard M. Nixon 1961–1969
Secretary of Treasury Henry Ford II 1961–1969
Secretary of Defense Curtis E. LeMay 1961–1969
Attorney General Thomas E. Dewey 1961–1969
Postmaster General Murray Chotiner 1961–1969
Edward A. McCabe 1963–1969
Secretary of the Interior Milan Dale Smith 1961–1969
Secretary of Agriculture Ezra Taft Benson 1961–1969
Secretary of Commerce Walter J. Kohler, Jr. 1961–1969
Secretary of Labor George Romney 1961–1965
Harold Stassen 1965–1969
Secretary of Health,
Education, and Welfare Robert Finch 1961–1962
Roger O. Egeberg 1962–1963
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Apr 9, 2017 5:04:35 GMT
Added some: Compared to OTL, Ike's choice of Luce slightly hurts his 1952 vote totals. He fails to carry Missouri and Tennessee, but gains Louisiana, giving him a net loss of 14 electoral votes, so it's Eisenhower 428 Stevenson 103 Still a very comfortable landslide. In 1956, his lead increases, and he carries Missouri and Tennessee, adding 24 electoral votes to total: Eisenhower 452 Stevenson 79 An even more impressive landslide. As the 1960 races for the nomination heat up, Eisenhower endorses Luce early on, citing her brilliant diplomatic efforts on his administration's behalf. Opposed for the nomination by both Rockefeller and Goldwater, she is perceived as the moderate candidate, and is nominated on the second ballot at the Chicago convention after Goldwater withdraws and endorses her. Seeing that she was going to be running against Jack Kennedy, she attempted to offset the allure of his military service (and to distance herself somewhat from Eisenhower) by selecting General Matthew Ridgeway as her running mate. The election was close, but Luce squeaked out a victory by carrying all the states Nixon did in OTL, except for Washington State, and also carried Michigan, New Jersey, Missouri, and Minnesota, which Nixon did not. That gave her 270 electoral votes, just barely enough, but enough, to win the Presidency. President Luce's cabinet picks were no surprise to most of those who knew her: Secretary of State Richard M. Nixon 1961–1969 Secretary of Treasury Henry Ford II 1961–1969 Secretary of Defense Curtis E. LeMay 1961–1969 Attorney General Thomas E. Dewey 1961–1969 Postmaster General Murray Chotiner 1961–1969 Edward A. McCabe 1963–1969 Secretary of the Interior Milan Dale Smith 1961–1969 Secretary of Agriculture Ezra Taft Benson 1961–1969 Secretary of Commerce Walter J. Kohler, Jr. 1961–1969 Secretary of Labor George Romney 1961–1965 Harold Stassen 1965–1969 Secretary of Health, Education, and Welfare Robert Finch 1961–1962 Roger O. Egeberg 1962–1963 Wonder how president Luce will handle the Cuban missile Crisis. Also Secretary of Defense Curtis E. LeMay requires a waiver due the National Security Act of 1947, which requires a seven-year waiting period before retired military personnel can assume the role of Secretary of Defense, wonder if the 86th United States Congress (January 3, 1959 – January 3, 1961) which is held by the democrats would vote to allow him to become Secretary of Defense. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Apr 9, 2017 13:59:29 GMT
That could be nasty, a fairly right wing Presidency during the Cuba crisis. Also I wonder how she would react to Vietnam? Plus 16 years of Republican rule, after 16 of Democrat could mean another swing in 1970.
Would she keep Ridgeway as VP in the 2nd term?
How would she view the civil rights movement? According to her Wiki entry she didn't seem a great fan of women's lib so there could be some retarding of things there.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Apr 9, 2017 14:02:53 GMT
That could be nasty, a fairly right wing Presidency during the Cuba crisis. Also I wonder how she would react to Vietnam? Plus 16 years of Republican rule, after 16 of Democrat could mean another swing in 1970. I am more concern that she will be more hawkish than Kennedy was in OTL and launch a attack against Cuba. |
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baloo
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Post by baloo on Apr 9, 2017 21:41:56 GMT
I figure Ridgeway would act as a moderating influence on both Luce and LeMay. And with a tougher, more military-oriented Luce admin, compared to the JFK admin, there might not have been a crisis at all. I'm wondering where to go with Vietnam. And I'm expecting that after 16 years of Republican rule, the Dems would make a comeback. How about a Fulbright ticket with Orville Freeman as running mate? Maybe Stuart or Mo Udall for VP instead? I'm keeping this copied at my blog here: ifnicity.blogspot.com/2017/04/clare-boothe-luce.html |
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baloo
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Post by baloo on Apr 9, 2017 22:30:48 GMT
And I'm betting that after JFK's defeat, the Dems would be disappointed and somewhat in disarray, leading them to nominate someone who isnt young and charismatic in 1964, like Pat Brown, and pair him with someone like Harrison Williams of New Jersey. I figure Luce'd beat that ticket, too.
Oh, Ridgeway would be 73 in 1968, so he'd not be trying for the nomination. I could see LeMay and Nixon fighting for it. And maybe William Scranton, calling himself a moderate. Yeah, now I see it. The competition gets nasty, leaving the candidates' supporters annoyed with each other. Nixon ends up with the nomination, but is so po'd at Scranton, who has the second greatest number of delegates, that he doesn't pick him for VP, but instead goes with James Rhodes of Ohio.
So now I have Nixon/Rhodes running against, unless I'm persuaded otherwise, Fulbright/Udall, I think. And the latter win.
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baloo
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Post by baloo on Apr 11, 2017 19:13:21 GMT
Another addition:
The Bay of Pigs invasion is handled quite differently from OTL, in that US ground forces assisted the Cuban revolutionaries, and both air and naval support were provided. This ended with the fall of the communist regime, the death of Fidel Castro, and the exile of Raúl Castro and Che Guevara to the Soviet Union.
President Luce appointed Admiral Thomas H. Moorer to be military governor of Cuba, a post he retained until Enrique Ros was elected President of Cuba in 1963. There is, of course, no Cuban missile crisis in this timeline. But the overthrow of Castro was considered a loss for the USSR, and Nikita Khrushchev voluntarily stepped aside in 1962 in favor of his friend and colleague, Anastas Mikoyan, who became First Secretary and Premier of the Soviet Union. Mikoyan is thought to have been instrumental in encouraging and effectuating Deng Xiaoping's successful coup against Mao Zedong in 1966 and the Ozhlivenie (revitalization) movement that opened up both the USSR and China to the outside world and a general move towards capitalism. Mikoyan was followed by his chosen successor,
Eduard Shevardnadze, in 1970.
The conflict in Vietnam is largely neutralized by the reinstatement of Emperor Bảo Đại 1n 1967 with the support of both the United States and China. He presides over a coalition government that includes Catholics, Buddhists, Caodaists, and communists.
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