stevep
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Post by stevep on May 27, 2023 9:43:48 GMT
Burr's Republic Possibility of Aaron Burr surviving and establishing an independent Republic in Texas?
Are you assuming that he's driven from the western lands - still east of the Mississippi - where he was allegedly planning to establish his republic and I believe did draw a measure at least of support from?
At this stage Mexico and its territories are part of the Spanish empire and I would have thought it would be beyond American reach, especially since the Catholic inhabitants would probably be unwilling to come under control of an American faction. However I noticed on wiki it says for 1807
This was the 2nd trial reported for him but suggests he had wider aims that just breaking off disaffected western parts of the current 1807 US.
I still think however it would have been a huge ask for him.
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Post by Max Sinister on May 27, 2023 17:53:42 GMT
Burr's Republic Possibility of Aaron Burr surviving and establishing an independent Republic in Texas? I’m not too sure. Texas wasn’t exactly on anyone’s radar in America yet. I could be wrong though. Well, after 1803, it kind of became their neighbor, so it doesn't seem impossible.
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miletus12
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Post by miletus12 on May 30, 2023 5:30:08 GMT
If the US broke up before 1800, would it be possible for a southern equivalent of the Erie Canal to be built to the Ohio River Valley? There was notably the Chesapeake and Ohio Canal IOTL but it only got to Cumberland, Maryland and it was a financial disaster in the long-term. I have been through the country, so many times, I recognize the mosquitoes on a first name basis. Can you posit a start point and an end point presumably along the Ohio River?  The headwaters of those southern rivers start in the Appalachian Mountains. That might be a problem? |
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Zyobot
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Post by Zyobot on Jun 1, 2023 18:00:53 GMT
'No Jewish Monotheism'.
"Holy lasting Semitic polytheism, Batman!"
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miletus12
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Post by miletus12 on Jun 1, 2023 18:30:57 GMT
'No Jewish Monotheism'. "Holy lasting Semitic polytheism, Batman!" You mean Christianity? |
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Zyobot
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Post by Zyobot on Jun 1, 2023 23:19:08 GMT
'No Jewish Monotheism'. "Holy lasting Semitic polytheism, Batman!" You mean Christianity? Umm... no? Last I checked, Judaism is still alive and well IOTL, despite Christianity having split off long ago. Rather, my meaning is that Judaism as we know it is completely butterflied by keeping the Canaanites' polytheistic tendencies going somehow. |
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miletus12
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Post by miletus12 on Jun 2, 2023 2:35:22 GMT
Umm... no? Last I checked, Judaism is still alive and well IOTL, despite Christianity having split off long ago. Rather, my meaning is that Judaism as we know it is completely butterflied by keeping the Canaanites' polytheistic tendencies going somehow. Not what I meant. Father, Son, Holy Ghost; plus a whole pantheon of "saints" and other "overlays" were grafted onto Judaism and common descended from it. I tend to treat Islam very much the same way, with "magical prophets", djinns, efrets and, and of course the residual animism. The big three "monotheisms" actually are one monotheism and two polytheistic offshoots. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jun 2, 2023 12:59:29 GMT
'No Jewish Monotheism'. "Holy lasting Semitic polytheism, Batman!"
Well that very likely butterflies both Christianity and Islam, although some sort of alternative could develop. Possibly Zoroastrianism, which had something of that aspect or some other area throws up such ideas.
If no such development you would see a radically different world. The Roman empire might mirror the Chinese one in some ways, with a Med orientated culture periodically falling into chaos and then being 'restored' by a new dynasty. However things would be so vastly different that its difficult to tell.
Interesting that miletus12 says that Judaism has followed Christianity and Islam into a semi-polytheistic state with multiple minor figures being worshiped alongside the central god. Not aware of that but not that knowledgeable about its inner workings.
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miletus12
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Post by miletus12 on Jun 2, 2023 13:06:41 GMT
The Roman empire might mirror the Chinese one in some ways It did. |
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miletus12
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Post by miletus12 on Jun 2, 2023 13:11:04 GMT
Interesting that miletus12 says that Judaism has followed Christianity and Islam into a semi-polytheistic state with multiple minor figures being worshiped alongside the central god. Not aware of that but not that knowledgeable about its inner workings. That is not what I wrote. Not what I meant. Father, Son, Holy Ghost; plus a whole pantheon of "saints" and other "overlays" were grafted onto Judaism and common descended from it. I tend to treat Islam very much the same way, with "magical prophets", djinns, efrets and, and of course the residual animism. The big three "monotheisms" actually are one monotheism and two polytheistic offshoots. If you think Kabbalism is mainstream Judaism, then we will have a LONG discussion about religion in another thread, but not this one. Miletus |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jun 2, 2023 20:59:52 GMT
Interesting that miletus12 says that Judaism has followed Christianity and Islam into a semi-polytheistic state with multiple minor figures being worshiped alongside the central god. Not aware of that but not that knowledgeable about its inner workings. That is not what I wrote. Not what I meant. Father, Son, Holy Ghost; plus a whole pantheon of "saints" and other "overlays" were grafted onto Judaism and common descended from it. I tend to treat Islam very much the same way, with "magical prophets", djinns, efrets and, and of course the residual animism. The big three "monotheisms" actually are one monotheism and two polytheistic offshoots. If you think Kabbalism is mainstream Judaism, then we will have a LONG discussion about religion in another thread, but not this one. Miletus
Then its distinctly unclear what you said. Your pretty much claimed Islam and Judaism are as overlaid by polytheistic aspects as Christianity so how do you get one monotheistic faith?
Of course while all three have those overlays that doesn't mean it mitigates the excesses of monotheism that much.  |
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miletus12
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Post by miletus12 on Jun 3, 2023 3:11:42 GMT
That is not what I wrote. If you think Kabbalism is mainstream Judaism, then we will have a LONG discussion about religion in another thread, but not this one. Miletus
Then its distinctly unclear what you said. Your pretty much claimed Islam and Judaism are as overlaid by polytheistic aspects as Christianity so how do you get one monotheistic faith?
Of course while all three have those overlays that doesn't mean it mitigates the excesses of monotheism that much. It is quite clear. One monotheism (Judaism as souerce) and two polytheisms *(Christianity and Islam common descended or should I have written "evolved from"?). Why did you have trouble picking up on it? So you did not pick up on cultural evolution? The second comment about monotheism has nothing to do with the prior discussion about how polytheisms historically common descended from a monotheism. So from where did that remark come? |
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Post by diamondstorm on Jun 3, 2023 3:14:25 GMT
If the US broke up before 1800, would it be possible for a southern equivalent of the Erie Canal to be built to the Ohio River Valley? There was notably the Chesapeake and Ohio Canal IOTL but it only got to Cumberland, Maryland and it was a financial disaster in the long-term. I have been through the country, so many times, I recognize the mosquitoes on a first name basis. Can you posit a start point and an end point presumably along the Ohio River? The headwaters of those southern rivers start in the Appalachian Mountains. That might be a problem? Actually, nevermind. I forgot that canals were used alongside roadways to access the west with roads being the majority path. I do recall the Potomac Canal being planned to join the Ohio River near Pittsburgh though. |
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miletus12
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Post by miletus12 on Jun 3, 2023 3:20:40 GMT
I have been through the country, so many times, I recognize the mosquitoes on a first name basis. Can you posit a start point and an end point presumably along the Ohio River? The headwaters of those southern rivers start in the Appalachian Mountains. That might be a problem? Actually, nevermind. I forgot that canals were used alongside roadways to access the west with roads being the majority path. I do recall the Potomac Canal being planned to join the Ohio River near Pittsburgh though. They ran out of money. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jun 3, 2023 10:38:57 GMT
Then its distinctly unclear what you said. Your pretty much claimed Islam and Judaism are as overlaid by polytheistic aspects as Christianity so how do you get one monotheistic faith?
Of course while all three have those overlays that doesn't mean it mitigates the excesses of monotheism that much. It is quite clear. One monotheism (Judaism as souerce) and two polytheisms *(Christianity and Islam common descended or should I have written "evolved from"?). Why did you have trouble picking up on it? So you did not pick up on cultural evolution? The second comment about monotheism has nothing to do with the prior discussion about how polytheisms historically common descended from a monotheism. So from where did that remark come?
Given that you said
it sounded distinctly like you were referring to Judaism. Especially since you were replying to a suggestion on a polytheistic Judaism. However see now it can also be read as the origins of Christianity.
The 2nd comment was about how having those 'polytheistic' elements hasn't changed the fundamentalist nature of much of the two monotheistic faiths.
How do you get "polytheisms historically common descended from a monotheism faith." as the opposite has been the case historically? Unless that was a typo or your claiming that Christianity and Islam are polytheistic which they aren't. They have elements of those but its a fairly fringe factor.
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