Post by stevep on Sept 10, 2023 11:43:01 GMT
I refer to Germany with 1933 borders so all territory controlled by Germany in 1933. Yes, Versailles borders in other words
Yes, the Soviet Group of Forces is ISOTed together with East Germany.
a) No You were initially writing Germany of 7 May 1945 which in a German context would have had Austria, Sudetenland, occupied Czech lands etc. as part of their Germany. So thanks for the clarification.
Then WHEN in 1933 do they arrive? Prior to 30 Jaunuary - not that it matters much but the outside world will wonder where Hitler went!
Ok - so the World (Europe) will be amazed at a Germany bombed to ruins with remnants of a beaten Army, Navy and Airforce, with a dead Adolph Hitler (30 April 1945, announced to the Germans 1 May 1945) led by Admiral Dönitz. Free roaming Nazi leaders around Berlin on the run from the Soviets will be surprised but mightily pleased that they are alive.
That will make for some confused situation - as it is the territory of 1933 that is ISOT this doesn't include ships at sea such as U-boats which will make Adm. Dönitz even more confused. 6 U-Boats at German port won't upset anybody of 1933 - all major units lost being in foreign ports such as Copenhagen.
So what happens in Germany - everybody mightily pleased that its over though the SS may still be cleaning up the few remaining Concentration sub-Camps in areas such as Schleswig-Holstein:
which must be seen in conjunction with the map of remaining German controlled areas:
Adm Dönitz in charge but the various top-Nazi's Himmler, Goring, Bormann will surface thanking providence for their survival - their problem will be Dönitz heading state and most instruments of State destroyed thus little power-base to build a position upon but of course they'll try so a confused powerstruggle unfolds.
Don't know how ruthless Dönitz is going to be BUT the Kriegsmarine did execute deserters post surrender at Kiel with the British hearing the shots!
Dönitz will then dispose of the to-Nazi's - perhaps have them shot defying his orders or just locking them up.
The foreign powers will want to know where their Embassies at Berlin have gone - Dönitz will be busy inviting them to reestablish Diplomatic relations at Kiel!
The French will be looking across the Rhine wondering about the bombed out German cities across it. Other border nations will wonder of the scars of war on the German borderlands.
The real problem for Döniz will be reassuring the British, French and Soviets that everything is A-ok in Germany and he is just going to spend some time to rebuild the nation.
As the real story leaks out what will the Czechs and Poles do - preventive War!
b) Ok - Stalin invades the revolutionaries. Nukes in GDR?
a) In terms of the 1945 to 1933 Germany its going to raise a lot of questions. There are a hell of a lot of former/actual slaves in the affected region, most of whom have just been liberated by the incoming allies. Given a lot of Germans, military age men especially are lost as either dead, POWs or still in pockets such as Norway, the Baltic states, Bohemia extra which will be lost and many surviving Germans also with a clear incentive to oppose any Nazi revival. As such as well as Donitz and the surviving Nazis, who sooner or later will argue about which of them should be the new Fuhrer. Plus by this time aren't Goring and Himmler both discredited to the party loyalists having been denounced by Hitler? [Goring for claiming to take over the defence of the rest of the Reich - which may have been a genuine error on his part and Himmler when the western allies revealed he had tried making a separate peace with them]. As such, left alone the ISOT region is going to be a chaotic area.
The other question of course is as news leaks out of why Germany is such a devastated wasteland - and what its done to prompt such actions by its opponents there could be a lot of people, probably including France as well as the Poles and Czechs and possibly even the British, Dutch and Belgians who decide they must remove the Nazis, along with a desire to free any of their people being held captive in Germany and also gain access to some of the technology they will learn about. While details will be scarce at 1st knowledge of what sort of weaponry Germany can deploy if allowed to recover economically. 1933 forces will have enough problems facing what forces 45 Germany can deploy, limited in numbers and with problems with production and support as they will face so that could be quite a struggle and would probably prompt some aspect of co-operation among the assorted German groups.
How Stalin and the newly elected President Roosevelt will react to news as it comes out is likely to be important as well but the US may be affected by a large degree of disbelief/denial as well as the views of their strongly isolationist population and the fact their deep in recession at this point. For Stalin he could go any number of ways or you might just have enough military and political leaders learning about the purge and deciding they must get rid of Stalin, which could also lead to a level of chaos in the USSR as well.
One other question of course is what happens when assorted powers hear about Japanese actions in the Far East? Probably not going to lead to war with Japan in the short term but going to be a cooling of relations and probably more direct support to the KMT in China, although if this prompts an earlier full scale invasion by Japan?
b) The biggest issue would probably be what the Soviet Group of Forces decides to do as their got by a long way the most advanced military and nuclear forces in the world. True a fair amount of that equipment may not be supportable for long but if they declare loyalty to Stalin this could be a very nasty world developing. If they don't, or are divided then things could get very complex.
