stevep
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Post by stevep on Aug 29, 2023 11:58:25 GMT
1850 Papal States to 350 BC 2020 Luxembourg to 1618 AD 1928 Germany to 1913 Don't have any off on first one.
Hmm, so You want Luxembourg to stop the Thirty Years War with an outbreak of Covid 19?
Weimar Germany to 1913 - may be interesting. No Great War in the West and a few territories in the East of the Bleeding Borders Germany may reoccupy. Belgium will be elated at getting Eupen - Malmedy. France will be confused at having Alsace-Lorraine on a platter.
No big German Navy - Britannia rules the Wawes.
So when do Germany to East..
a) Well at that date I don't think Roman power extends much beyond the areas of the 1850 Papal states so the old republic is pretty much obliterated. Replaced instead with an alien culture with advanced technology but a lot of ideas the down times will probably find repulsive. How much of that technology might spread to neighbouring states and how quickly could be the big issue, as well as the character of the pope at the time. This was Pius IX who reigned from 1846 to 1878. Initially seen as a liberal he became increasingly more conservative after the revolutions of 1848, including a short lived republic he fled Rome but the French came to his aid, occupying Rome city and crushing the republic in 1849 although the pope, who found the French who had aided him too liberal refused to return to the city until 1850. He was in another part of the papal states so will be brought along but the situation is likely to be somewhat chaotic and with the removal of external support the republicans might try again.
I suspect the chaos is likely to seriously cripple central Italy as a power for a period and hence possibly the big benefactors might be either the Greek cities of the south or the Carthaginians. If either of those get enough access to modern technology then you could see an earlier industrial revolution albeit it will take time to develop and probably some big wars while a new order is established. Likely no centralized empire emerging I suspect.
b) Luxembourg is likely to be swamped by the down-timers, cut off from the rest of the modern world and likely to face a hell of a lot of nasty diseases itself. Covid is probably going to kill a fair number of down-timers but be largely unnoticed among the other causes of death at that time. Not sure what the assorted leaders and people will think of news they get from survivors of the collapse of the up-time state.
c) Assuming this means that only 1928 Germany is transferred, i.e. Alsace-Lorraine, the lands transferred to Poland, Denmark and Belgium are still in their 1913 configuration. Unless he's out of the affected area at this time Wilhelm II is gone although his older version is still in exile in the Netherlands. There might be an attempt at a restoration but at this point its likely to fail I suspect. Probably going to be a French attempt to occupy Alsace-Lorraine once they realize what has happened, especially the relative weakness of the UT Germans but that could be costly for both sides. The French have a much larger army but the Germans in the province have powerful defences and can call on their own DTers from the East - unless the Czar also attacks but would he want to rule more Poles and possibly Germans? - along with a small but well trained UT army that could probably be quickly expanded in those circumstances. Britain is likely to stay neutral in such a conflict, since France would be the aggressor and the Germans are in no position to invade Belgium.
The RN would again be the dominant naval power but Britain and a lot of other nations are going to learn a lot of bad news from their diplomats, merchants and others brought along with 1928 Germany. How quickly assorted nations respond and in which ways would be important.
Germany has one big boost, other than the somewhat superior technological knowledge in that reparations will now be a dead issue.
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Post by Otto Kretschmer on Aug 29, 2023 12:07:03 GMT
1800 AD Japan to 3000 BC
I wonder how long it takes Japan to open up again and notice that the world is now a different place?
It might be interesting to look at what advanced cultures are in China in 3000 BC and how their interactions with Japan might be like.
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575
Captain
There is no Purgatory for warcriminals - they go directly to Hell!
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Post by 575 on Aug 29, 2023 18:47:56 GMT
Don't have any off on first one.
Hmm, so You want Luxembourg to stop the Thirty Years War with an outbreak of Covid 19?
Weimar Germany to 1913 - may be interesting. No Great War in the West and a few territories in the East of the Bleeding Borders Germany may reoccupy. Belgium will be elated at getting Eupen - Malmedy. France will be confused at having Alsace-Lorraine on a platter.
No big German Navy - Britannia rules the Wawes.
So when do Germany to East..
a) Well at that date I don't think Roman power extends much beyond the areas of the 1850 Papal states so the old republic is pretty much obliterated. Replaced instead with an alien culture with advanced technology but a lot of ideas the down times will probably find repulsive. How much of that technology might spread to neighbouring states and how quickly could be the big issue, as well as the character of the pope at the time. This was Pius IX who reigned from 1846 to 1878. Initially seen as a liberal he became increasingly more conservative after the revolutions of 1848, including a short lived republic he fled Rome but the French came to his aid, occupying Rome city and crushing the republic in 1849 although the pope, who found the French who had aided him too liberal refused to return to the city until 1850. He was in another part of the papal states so will be brought along but the situation is likely to be somewhat chaotic and with the removal of external support the republicans might try again.
I suspect the chaos is likely to seriously cripple central Italy as a power for a period and hence possibly the big benefactors might be either the Greek cities of the south or the Carthaginians. If either of those get enough access to modern technology then you could see an earlier industrial revolution albeit it will take time to develop and probably some big wars while a new order is established. Likely no centralized empire emerging I suspect.
b) Luxembourg is likely to be swamped by the down-timers, cut off from the rest of the modern world and likely to face a hell of a lot of nasty diseases itself. Covid is probably going to kill a fair number of down-timers but be largely unnoticed among the other causes of death at that time. Not sure what the assorted leaders and people will think of news they get from survivors of the collapse of the up-time state.
c) Assuming this means that only 1928 Germany is transferred, i.e. Alsace-Lorraine, the lands transferred to Poland, Denmark and Belgium are still in their 1913 configuration. Unless he's out of the affected area at this time Wilhelm II is gone although his older version is still in exile in the Netherlands. There might be an attempt at a restoration but at this point its likely to fail I suspect. Probably going to be a French attempt to occupy Alsace-Lorraine once they realize what has happened, especially the relative weakness of the UT Germans but that could be costly for both sides. The French have a much larger army but the Germans in the province have powerful defences and can call on their own DTers from the East - unless the Czar also attacks but would he want to rule more Poles and possibly Germans? - along with a small but well trained UT army that could probably be quickly expanded in those circumstances. Britain is likely to stay neutral in such a conflict, since France would be the aggressor and the Germans are in no position to invade Belgium.
The RN would again be the dominant naval power but Britain and a lot of other nations are going to learn a lot of bad news from their diplomats, merchants and others brought along with 1928 Germany. How quickly assorted nations respond and in which ways would be important.
Germany has one big boost, other than the somewhat superior technological knowledge in that reparations will now be a dead issue.
a) -
b) Agree - the downtimers will see Covid-19 as just 'nother pox - leathal but so pox use to be. Any attempt of up-timers to tell down-timers how 'orrible the TYW was will probably be met with a shrug.. thats the ways of war.
c) Indeed but those areas have been ceded by 1928 Germany to these various states so now 1913 Germany - which will make for some confusion. But probably the up-timers and surely among them A Hitler. 1928 I expect Weimar German Army to be quite capable with 7 Infantry and 3 Cavalry Divisions and drafting the 3 mill. SA-troops. The Navy just the remnants of Imperial Navy basically a threat to no-one. Probably no real airforce but some production of civil single engine aircraft was going on and these would outclass anything else.
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Post by Otto Kretschmer on Aug 30, 2023 7:49:47 GMT
Iraq from 2007 (with all US and allied troops) to 3000 BC.
What happens is that obviously the US troops assimilate into the wider Iraqi society. How much yechnological regress is expected and what trajectory of development do you predict for a wider Iraqi society?
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Post by Otto Kretschmer on Aug 31, 2023 9:38:38 GMT
2020 US to 10 AD.
How does the US deal with Rome? Remember Rome still has slavery whch will be a major hurdle in US-Roman relations. How best to convince Rome to end slavery?
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stevep
Fleet admiral
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Post by stevep on Aug 31, 2023 15:43:46 GMT
2020 US to 10 AD. How does the US deal with Rome? Remember Rome still has slavery whch will be a major hurdle in US-Roman relations. How best to convince Rome to end slavery?
At this point just about everywhere has slavery so its not an issue that the US can really apply pressure specifically to Rome on. Especially given the economic and social crisis that would develop from the sudden loss of all foreign contacts.
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Post by Otto Kretschmer on Aug 31, 2023 16:01:17 GMT
2020 US to 10 AD. How does the US deal with Rome? Remember Rome still has slavery whch will be a major hurdle in US-Roman relations. How best to convince Rome to end slavery?
At this point just about everywhere has slavery so its not an issue that the US can really apply pressure specifically to Rome on. Especially given the economic and social crisis that would develop from the sudden loss of all foreign contacts.
But after the initial crisis is sorted out, what can US do? |
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Post by Otto Kretschmer on Sept 6, 2023 15:16:24 GMT
2018 Germany to 1871.
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Post by Otto Kretschmer on Sept 9, 2023 9:11:26 GMT
Germany from May 7th 1945 to 1933. Foreign troops are not ISOTed.
1988 East Germany to 1950
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575
Captain
There is no Purgatory for warcriminals - they go directly to Hell!
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Post by 575 on Sept 9, 2023 14:24:11 GMT
a) What Germany to You refer to? Germany with Versailles Borders?  Germany prior to 1. September 1939?  German 7 May 1945? (the Red in German control) but with Austria - Sudetenland - Occupied territories?  b) Is the SGFG along for the ride? |
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Post by Otto Kretschmer on Sept 10, 2023 2:53:36 GMT
575I refer to Germany with 1933 borders so all territory controlled by Germany in 1933. Yes, Versailles borders in other words Yes, the Soviet Group of Forces is ISOTed together with East Germany.
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575
Captain
There is no Purgatory for warcriminals - they go directly to Hell!
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Post by 575 on Sept 10, 2023 10:20:33 GMT
575 I refer to Germany with 1933 borders so all territory controlled by Germany in 1933. Yes, Versailles borders in other words Yes, the Soviet Group of Forces is ISOTed together with East Germany. a) No You were initially writing Germany of 7 May 1945 which in a German context would have had Austria, Sudetenland, occupied Czech lands etc. as part of their Germany. So thanks for the clarification.
Then WHEN in 1933 do they arrive? Prior to 30 Jaunuary - not that it matters much but the outside world will wonder where Hitler went!
Ok - so the World (Europe) will be amazed at a Germany bombed to ruins with remnants of a beaten Army, Navy and Airforce, with a dead Adolph Hitler (30 April 1945, announced to the Germans 1 May 1945) led by Admiral Dönitz. Free roaming Nazi leaders around Berlin on the run from the Soviets will be surprised but mightily pleased that they are alive. That will make for some confused situation - as it is the territory of 1933 that is ISOT this doesn't include ships at sea such as U-boats which will make Adm. Dönitz even more confused. 6 U-Boats at German port won't upset anybody of 1933 - all major units lost being in foreign ports such as Copenhagen.
So what happens in Germany - everybody mightily pleased that its over though the SS may still be cleaning up the few remaining Concentration sub-Camps in areas such as Schleswig-Holstein:
which must be seen in conjunction with the map of remaining German controlled areas:
Adm Dönitz in charge but the various top-Nazi's Himmler, Goring, Bormann will surface thanking providence for their survival - their problem will be Dönitz heading state and most instruments of State destroyed thus little power-base to build a position upon but of course they'll try so a confused powerstruggle unfolds. Don't know how ruthless Dönitz is going to be BUT the Kriegsmarine did execute deserters post surrender at Kiel with the British hearing the shots! Dönitz will then dispose of the to-Nazi's - perhaps have them shot defying his orders or just locking them up.
The foreign powers will want to know where their Embassies at Berlin have gone - Dönitz will be busy inviting them to reestablish Diplomatic relations at Kiel! The French will be looking across the Rhine wondering about the bombed out German cities across it. Other border nations will wonder of the scars of war on the German borderlands. The real problem for Döniz will be reassuring the British, French and Soviets that everything is A-ok in Germany and he is just going to spend some time to rebuild the nation.
As the real story leaks out what will the Czechs and Poles do - preventive War!
b) Ok - Stalin invades the revolutionaries. Nukes in GDR?
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Post by Otto Kretschmer on Sept 10, 2023 10:30:16 GMT
575As for the second scenario - Stalin is gonna be very disappointed. His troops are goong to fight T-72s and T-80s with T-34/85s - not a very fair fight. The USSR in 1950 also has very few nukes and very primitive means of carrying them.
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575
Captain
There is no Purgatory for warcriminals - they go directly to Hell!
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Post by 575 on Sept 10, 2023 10:37:31 GMT
575 As for the second scenario - Stalin is gonna be very disappointed. His troops are goong to fight T-72s and T-80s with T-34/85s - not a very fair fight. The USSR in 1950 also has very few nukes and very primitive means of carrying them. He won't like it but it has to be done. And he has a still a rather large occupation Army in Poland. The SGFG have limited logistics but Nukes - it was those I primarily asked to. |
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Post by Otto Kretschmer on Sept 10, 2023 11:28:54 GMT
575Did the Soviet Group of Forces in Germany have nukee? Which ones as nd in what quantity? What future do you predict for Germany, USSR and the workd in the years and decades following the ISOT?
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