DMZ
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Post by DMZ on Feb 16, 2024 11:55:55 GMT
Love the bit about the British ambassador and George III. Guessing that was OTL as it seems too ironic to be made up. Indeed, all about Kerr was OTL.
EDIT: But the support to De Gaulle!
Sorry for jumping from a theater to another without respecting the chronology. I will come back to many other places and events later on. I just write chapters as I think about it. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Feb 16, 2024 18:40:05 GMT
Love the bit about the British ambassador and George III. Guessing that was OTL as it seems too ironic to be made up. Indeed, all about Kerr was OTL. Sorry for jumping from a theater to another without respecting the chronology. I will come back to many other places and events later on. I just write chapters as I think about it.
No problem with that. Just great to see this interesting TL active again.  |
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Feb 16, 2024 18:49:14 GMT
No problem with that. Just great to see this interesting TL active again. Second that. |
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DMZ
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Post by DMZ on Feb 17, 2024 9:10:50 GMT
A small complement for June
End of the Crazy Fortnight
30 June - A major raid carried out by two Bleinheim squadrons based at Banak/Lakselv is launched on the Hattfjeldal and Trondheim/Værnes airfields. The bombers took off from Bardufoss under the midnight sun after refuelling there. Heading south after the Lofoten Islands, they entered the twilight over the sparsely populated area of the Svartisen glacier south of Bodø. Their arrival as the sun rises over Hattfjeldal did not come as a complete surprise to the Germans, but the meagre local anti-aircraft defences could not prevent the destruction of the wooden runway, while some of the attackers continued their flight discreetly further east, near the Swedish border, towards Værnes, which they also reached at sunrise. With its glare in their backs, they carried out a devastating pass over the aircraft stationed there before escaping north at full speed, pursued by a swarm of Bf-109s intenting on making them pay a high price for their affront. Hattfjeldal was out of action for a while and around twenty aircraft went up in smoke at Værnes. Four Bleinheims are missing and two seriously damaged, mainly by flak. 30 June - Start of Operation Alphabet, the withdrawal of British troops. All weapons were transferred to the Norwegians. Only the Independent Companies, the anti-aircraft artillery and the RAF remain. 30 June - Refusing the armistice, almost 4,000 Poles from the Independent Carpathian Rifle Brigade, stationed in Syria and Lebanon under the command of General Stanisław Kopański, move towards Palestine. |
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DMZ
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Post by DMZ on Feb 17, 2024 9:30:59 GMT
Polish Reinforcement
1 July - Considering that Poland is not formally at war with Italy, its government in exile asks the British to repatriate the Independent Carpathian Rifle Brigade to Britain to fight in Norway.
2, 3 and 4 July - Operation Catapult: seizure of French ships in Great Britain, bombardment of the fleet at Mers-el-Kebir, immobilisation of the fleet at Alexandria.
5 July - After an exchange with the Norwegian government, the War Cabinet agrees to re-equip and transport to Harstad the independent Carpathian Rifle Brigade. It will replace the French forces there. The Podhale Independent Rifle Brigade, currently at the front, would then be placed in reserve to be re-completed and re-equipped.
The Polish Navy destroyers (ORP Burza (Wicher class), ORP Błyskawica (Grom class), ORP Garland (G-class)) will be dedicated to the protection of Norwegian waters together with the two remaining Nowegian destroyers (the modern HNoMS Sleiplner (Sleipner class), the very old HNoMS Draug (Draug class 1910) which has to be reinforced with AA guns before sent back to Norway).
Polish air squadrons in formation will also be sent to relieve the RAF. No. 302 "City of Poznan" Polish Fighter Squadron (Poznański) on Hurricane will be based at Bardufoss, No. 300 "Masovia" Polish Bomber Squadron (Ziemi Mazowieckiej) on Fairey Battle will go to Alta/Elvesbakken, it will be reinforced by No. 301 "Pomerania" Polish Bomber Squadron (Ziemi Pomorskiej) at Banak/Lakselv also on Fairey Battle at the end of July. Finally No. 303 "Kościuszko" Polish Fighter Squadron (Warszawski imienia Tadeusza Kościuszki) on Hurricane will be based in August on Elvenes field.
Taking into account the results of the 30 June raid and the distances to be covered in Norway, a transformation of Squadron 300 and 301 on Bleinheim is envisaged. They will take over the planes of the British squadrons when they will leave Norway.
The Norwegians of the RNoAAS will be re-equipped with Gloster Gladiators, their squadrons being based on Elvenes airfield, then Skånland/Evenes which will have to be consolidated and Andenes/Andøya which is to be built on the island of Andøya north of Harstad, as well as Bodø if the runway can be repaired and the airfield protected by a reinforced AA defence. The 40 or so Curtiss 75s (P-36s) still to be delivered, possibly supplemented by ex-French H-75s, will be based at Nordbotn, near Tromsø, where construction has begun at the request of the Norwegians, and will gradually replace the Gladiators on the other airfields.
While waiting for the 36 Douglas A-33 attack aircraft ordered from the United States to arrive towards the end of the year, a dozen Blackburn Skua aircraft will be loaned to the Norwegians.
The Kirkenes airfield, close to the border with Finland and furthest from the front line, will be used for reserve and training purposes.
The RNoNAS will continue to use its seven remaining Heinkel He 115 seaplanes (two of which were seized from the Germans) from Tromsø floatplane base for maritime patrols until the spare parts run out. Discreet contacts will be made with the Swedes, who operate a dozen of them, to try to obtain parts as needed. They were completed, for shorter distance missions, by the 24 Northrop N-3PB Nomads ordered from the United States but which were not available before spring 1941.
The Curtiss 75, Douglas A-33 and Northrop N-3PB were all equipped with the same Wright GR-1820-G205A engine.
At the end of August, only the Royal Navy will be called upon in Norway to escort the convoys and possibly supplement the air cover depending on the weather conditions, as the land is more often under rain or clouds. One aircraft carrier, one cruiser and their destroyer escort will be necessary and sufficient. The Glorious and the Furious will remain dedicated to this task in turn.
10 July - The Battle of Britain begins with the attack on British convoys in the Channel.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Feb 17, 2024 14:27:12 GMT
Ah well the BoB will still occur. There might not be the same single raid from Norway this time - although it might still occur to try and tie down RAF resources. Other than more German forces being tied down in Norway there shouldn't be a great difference in the short term so expecting it to go pretty much as OTL. However the greater French resources might possibly play a part. Its after that that wider butterflies will start to flap their wings.
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DMZ
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Post by DMZ on Feb 17, 2024 14:57:47 GMT
Ah well the BoB will still occur. There might not be the same single raid from Norway this time - although it might still occur to try and tie down RAF resources. Other than more German forces being tied down in Norway there shouldn't be a great difference in the short term so expecting it to go pretty much as OTL. However the greater French resources might possibly play a part. Its after that that wider butterflies will start to flap their wings.
Yes, it's too early in July to have significant changes in this time line vs OTL. The main point is the symbol of the fierce resistance in northern Norway. We have seen Free French bolstered by Légion and Chasseurs alpins fight. And a small country (the last one, with the help of Poles) facing the winner of the "most powerfull army in the world" shows that everything remains open. This also impose to Hitler to intensify pressure on Great Britain because making peace with London will doom to failure the fight in Norway. So same BoB (because it's not possible to do more...)
And big players start to look carrefuly at the game: Roosevelt, Stalin, Tojo and Co...
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DMZ
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Post by DMZ on Feb 18, 2024 14:02:10 GMT
I have been far too optimistic about Catroux rallying to De Gaulle and resistance to Japaneese demands. If Catroux had the goal to continue the fight from the beginning, he was fully aware of the impossibility to do so against Japaneese and tried to temporize to retain France sovereignty on Indochina. I have to review my writing...
The Tipping
July 1st - The announcement of De Gaulle travel to Tromsø didn't make an impression only in Norway. Throughout the Empire, informed people were closely following the developpment in the fareway lands, and the departure of the Poles to Palestine did not leave General Mittlehauser unaffected who, in turn, declares refusing an armistice contrary of the honnor of France, whose soldiers continue to fight in the snow of Bodø, he cannot do less in the sands of the Levant. He follows the tinny Domaine de Saint-Hélène from where the Curator, Georges Colin, has taken the plunge as soon as June 23rd.
July 2nd - Paul Legentilhomme in Djibouti make similar declaration. They are both revocated by Vichy but it make no difference for them who continue to put in defensive position their respective territory in conjucotion with the British neighbours. Georges Catroux, who maintaining himself at his position in Indochina despite being called back by Vichy, and try to appease the Japanese, discreetly informed Admiral Sir Percy Noble in Singapore - whom he had met in Saigon on 27 June to enquire about the possibility of support from the Royal Navy - that he could not join General De Gaulle for the time being, despite his intention to do so.
July 16 - Catroux sound out his British contacts in order to know if Free France, which is developping in French Equatorial Africa, could be in any help in his fight. With the negative answer, he decide to resign in order to save his policy touward Japanese.
July 20 - Catroux is officially replaced by rear admiral Jean Decoux in Hanoi.
August 23 - Georges Catroux join Free France in the stopover of the small armada in Pondichery. Although Churchill proposed him to lead it, he publicly pledge allegiance to De Gaulle. To him, who reproaches him for having given in too much to the Japanese, he make the same report he made to Albert Rivière at Vichy, the absolute impossibility to military face them and the necessity to stall for time while holding firm on sovereignty.
A Blazing Ambassador
August 28th - Singapore - (...) The Indochina case is also reviewed but is more worrying because the threat of invasion is real. It is agreed that the switch of the colony, which unanimously fears the possible Japanese takeover, won't be attempted before sufficient forces could be sent.
Churchill, once informed of these plans, was receptive and even enthusiastic. He also foresee a mean to regain influence in South-East Asia and reinforcing against Japanese after the humiliating stepback of teh closure of the Burmese road to China at their request. (...)
August 30th - Realising the inevitable, Admiral Geoffroy switched to Free France and Force X was able to rearm its ships in Alexandria.
August 30th - Vichy settle an agreement with Tokyo, acknowledging its main position in the Far-East. De Gaulle immediatly protest against this new "treason".
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Post by raharris1973 on May 11, 2024 16:46:42 GMT
This is a great timeline. Very much looking forward to the next update.
Could we get a concise world overview of where we are now in this timeline, I guess as of August 30th, 1940?
Probably a vital part would be an illustration of the positioning of the battle line/ forward line of troops in Norway.
But a review of the territorial status/territorial control of Corsica would be in order, as well as the political loyalty of each French colony to Vichy or De Gaulle. Zones of British versus Italian control in Africa. Anything notable to clarify about the political, military, and diplomatic positions and alignments of Sweden and Finland.
In Eastern Europe, the status of the Baltic States - annexed to the USSR yet or not?
USSR-Romania - current status of Bessarabia at this time
Balkans in general - any puppetization, alignment of Balkans regimes with Germany and Italy?
Italo-Greek relations?
Anglo-American relations? Any discussion of destroyers for bases?
American-Japanese relations? Any American discussion of raw material embargoes?
USSR - German relations? Any new or revised trade agreements or payment disputes or frictions? Any discussion of Soviet alignment with Germany?
Will the Tripartite Pact emerge on schedule between Germany, Japan, Italy on schedule?
Status of air balance of power over Britain and North Sea?
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on May 11, 2024 16:50:53 GMT
This is a great timeline. Very much looking forward to the next update. DMZ had not been online sins February this year, so time will only tell. |
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Post by raharris1973 on May 12, 2024 3:08:10 GMT
This is a great timeline. Very much looking forward to the next update. DMZ had not been online sins February this year, so time will only tell. Agreed. Hope they come back. Hope they're OK. I really like this TL. The detail is part of what makes it good, but it has left me impatient to see where things go next. |
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on May 12, 2024 6:17:33 GMT
DMZ had not been online sins February this year, so time will only tell. Agreed. Hope they come back. Hope they're OK. I really like this TL. The detail is part of what makes it good, but it has left me impatient to see where things go next. DMZ is over at the French Fights on Forum, if you know French.. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on May 12, 2024 13:44:55 GMT
Agreed. Hope they come back. Hope they're OK. I really like this TL. The detail is part of what makes it good, but it has left me impatient to see where things go next. DMZ is over at the French Fights on Forum, if you know French..
Ah good that means he's still about and active elsewhere. Hopefully he will be back soon as I agree with the other posters this is a very good TL with a hell of a lot of research and detail.
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Post by raharris1973 on May 12, 2024 15:57:55 GMT
Ca c’est bon!
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Post by American hist on May 25, 2024 17:33:53 GMT
I admit to skipping a lot of the pages in the thread. It may be worth it that a country with the biggest navy in the world should stay in Norway as the Royal Navy can cut off the Germans by sea.
However, I recognize that the British did have high casualties for the navy during this phase of WW2. A thought would be that Canadians are used to harsh winters let's send them to Norway to fight. Although from what I heard Scandinavia is warmer than what many people thought. Also provided the the British last this long perhaps the USSR could coordinate troops against the finished campaign.
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