lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Nov 28, 2021 10:21:06 GMT
The Polish governement in exile soon declared that the Polish troops withdrawn from France could be transfered to Norway to reinforce the Independant Highland Brigade. Norwegian government immediatly dispached freighters to carry these undreamed forces. Unfortunatly, all Polish divisions was on the eastern front and not able to evacuate. But discussions started to send a Polish fighter squadron as soon as reequiped. Good idea, this will free up British forces to do something else. |
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DMZ
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Post by DMZ on Nov 28, 2021 10:34:16 GMT
The Polish governement in exile soon declared that the Polish troops withdrawn from France could be transfered to Norway to reinforce the Independant Highland Brigade. Norwegian government immediatly dispached freighters to carry these undreamed forces. Unfortunatly, all Polish divisions was on the eastern front and not able to evacuate. But discussions started to send a Polish fighter squadron as soon as reequiped. Good idea, this will free up British forces to do something else. That was the idea, Polish wanted to stay in the fight and Norway was the last remaining place to do it. On the other hand, British will welcome this initiative as it will strenghten the Norwegian resistance and will help politically Churchill who could say: "We don't abandon Norwegian, we give them all means to resist the aggression". |
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Nov 28, 2021 10:39:33 GMT
With only two remaining destroyers, Norwegian Navy was not able to assure the protection of the convoys and advocated for a minimal help from RN that was agreed except that it could be removed at any time without previous notice in case of imminent danger of invasion. The Norwegian Navy took a beating if they are down to only 2 destroyers. So where would they be based in Norway that is save from German aerial attack. |
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DMZ
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Post by DMZ on Nov 28, 2021 11:19:48 GMT
With only two remaining destroyers, Norwegian Navy was not able to assure the protection of the convoys and advocated for a minimal help from RN that was agreed except that it could be removed at any time without previous notice in case of imminent danger of invasion. The Norwegian Navy took a beating if they are down to only 2 destroyers. So where would they be based in Norway that is save from German aerial attack. RNoN was not hudge and had only four modern destroyers ( Sleipner class (1936)) plus two under testing, three old destroyers ( Draug class (1910)) and two four obsolete coastal defense ships ( Eidsvold class (1900) and Tordenskjold class (1896)) Sleipner and Draug escaped. Æger ( Sleipner class), Eidsvold and Norge ( Eidsvold class) was sunk. All other seized by German. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleipner-class_destroyeren.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draug-class_destroyerThey will be based in Scappa Flow... There are no suited base in Northern Norway. Alta or Kirkeness are safe but ill equiped and too far from the theatre of operations. |
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Nov 28, 2021 11:21:21 GMT
They will be based in Scappa Flow... There are no suited base in Northern Norway. Alta or Kirkeness are safe but ill equiped and too far from the theatre of operations. So how quickly can the British supply the Norwegians with new ships ore is the Royal Navy getting first picks. |
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DMZ
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Post by DMZ on Nov 28, 2021 11:59:26 GMT
Unfortunatly, there are no available ships at this critical moment. {Spoiler: Destroyers for RNoN}In fact nobody knows at this time but British gvt will give some of the 50 destroyers obtained from USA under Destroyer-Base agreement on September 2nd.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Nov 28, 2021 12:05:10 GMT
Unfortunatly, there are no available ships at this critical moment. {Spoiler}{Spoiler: Destroyers for RNoN}In fact nobody knows at this time but British gvt will give some of the 50 destroyers obtained from USA under Destroyer-Base agreement on September 2nd.
The Norwegian navy as i look at OTL data is a bit worse of what they still field, ore am i wrong. |
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DMZ
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Post by DMZ on Nov 28, 2021 12:13:50 GMT
No, it's the same. I didn't mention the smaller ships that are not suitable for offshore escort but they are still there.
Have you any different listing for destroyers?
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Nov 28, 2021 12:20:43 GMT
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DMZ
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Post by DMZ on Nov 30, 2021 9:33:36 GMT
June - Fauske's struggleJune 1st - The Germans came into direct contact on the southern bank of the fjord bottom (Nedrevatnet and Øvrevatnet) and tried to cross in the rush. They were easily repulsed with important losses and had to ask for a cease-fire in Finneid to collect the wounded. June 6 - An attempt to cross the Blåmannsissen glacier led to skirmishes with Norwegian patrols. The difficulty of the terrain prevented the Austrians from advancing under the precise fire of the Norwegians. June 7 - A new crossing effort was made at Finneid and Gjemgam to support the attempted overrun through the glacier. Without result. June 8 - The Germans probed the fjord bottom defences at Laskå. Here too, the Norwegians, well entrenched in the woods, forbid the approach, the Germans are stuck at the bottom of the valley and cannot cross the creek swollen by the melting snow. June 11 - Berlin "We have crushed the Franco-British in two weeks and we have been held in check by the Norwegians for two months! How can a single small division stop the Wehrmacht on a 20 km front? How could we not rescue General Dietl in Narvik? - Mein Führer, the terrain is particularly difficult and we cannot engage tanks. We have to cross the fjord under enemy fire. - Didn't we do it in three places on the Meuse River in one day against the French army? Are you going to tell me that the Norwegians are even more formidable when they owe their salvation only to the intervention of the Franco-English that we are sweeping at this very moment in France? What can stop you when the 2. Gebirgs-Division has just pushed back all the defenses over 600 km from Trondheim? Why don't you break through the Blåmannsissen? - We tried it, but it is a glacier on which our forces are very vulnerable and there is no road to access it, the mines in the Sulitjelma area are only served by the bottom of the fjord which we do not control. As for crossing the fjord, here too we have no road to transport heavy equipment, we have to go through the fjord and the British have destroyed or taken away all the ships while evacuating Saltdal. - Put all the means at work to finish quickly! I expect results as soon as possible. Present me with a plan by tomorrow!"  Skjerstad Fjord - Saltdal Fjord - Nedrevatnet - Øvrevatnet - Fauske - Finneid - Saltdal - Rognan - Blåmannsissen glacier - Swedish Border (upper right)June 15 - The Germans attacked from Laskå to Finneid after a violent but short preparation of aerial bombardment (about thirty He 111 and thirty Ju 87 are engaged). Taking advantage of the last moments of the shelling, engineers crossed at Finneid and Gjemgam and threw improvised footbridges over the icy and turbulent waters. A confused melee took place on the banks of the fjord and the few defenders were quickly overwhelmed. But as soon as the aerial bombardment ended, the snipers on the heights made a massacre among the attackers. A few houses were taken which allowed the Germans to have a small protection but any attempt to advance towards the slopes in Gjemgam or in the village in Finneid were violently pushed back. The German reinforcements now had to cross an open space under fire from the defenders above them or from the artillery behind the front. On their side, the British and Norwegians committed their reserves at Finneid to push the enemy out of the now ruined village. On the eastern side of teh front, the result in Laskå was exactly the same as June 8: Germans couldn't cross the bottom of the valley.
English fighters came too late to intervene against bombers and could only straff crossing ennemies.After a day of hard hand-to-hand fighting, the Gebirgsjägers, having run out of ammunition, had to withdraw, leaving many dead, wounded or prisoners. The Anglo-Norwegians suffered relatively few losses, mainly during the recapture of Finneid, the log fortifications having been extremely resistant to the bombardment. On the other hand, the artillery, more exposed, was heavily hit. Two Gladiators was badly damaged. Fauske and Finneid are in ashes.On the German side, in addition to the losses on the ground, six bombers were destroyed or damaged beyond repair by the AA artillery. June 16 - Hitler's anger is phenomenal. There is, so to speak, no more organized resistance in France, Paris is taken, and an elite division is still held at bay by a handful of men in Norway. The order was given to reinforce the aerial capacities in the North.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Nov 30, 2021 16:06:53 GMT
Well that's going to take some pressure off Britain, at least in the short term. Hitler's obsession with the resistance on N Norway is going to tied down attention probably more importantly than the actual forces involved. It will mean more support needed for the defenders I suspect but that should be increasingly popular in the UK. There's probably also going to be an up-swell of support for their resistance in the US which could be important in the longer run.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Nov 30, 2021 17:49:11 GMT
June - Fauske's struggleJune 1st - The Germans came into direct contact on the southern bank of the fjord bottom (Nedrevatnet and Øvrevatnet) and tried to cross in the rush. They were easily repulsed with important losses and had to ask for a cease-fire in Finneid to collect the wounded. June 6 - An attempt to cross the Blåmannsissen glacier led to skirmishes with Norwegian patrols. The difficulty of the terrain prevented the Austrians from advancing under the precise fire of the Norwegians. June 7 - A new crossing effort was made at Finneid and Gjemgam to support the attempted overrun through the glacier. Without result. June 8 - The Germans probed the fjord bottom defences at Laskå. Here too, the Norwegians, well entrenched in the woods, forbid the approach, the Germans are stuck at the bottom of the valley and cannot cross the creek swollen by the melting snow. June 11 - Berlin "We have crushed the Franco-British in two weeks and we have been held in check by the Norwegians for two months! How can a single small division stop the Wehrmacht on a 20 km front? How could we not rescue General Dietl in Narvik? - Mein Führer, the terrain is particularly difficult and we cannot engage tanks. We have to cross the fjord under enemy fire. - Didn't we do it in three places on the Meuse River in one day against the French army? Are you going to tell me that the Norwegians are even more formidable when they owe their salvation only to the intervention of the Franco-English that we are sweeping at this very moment in France? What can stop you when the 2. Gebirgs-Division has just pushed back all the defenses over 600 km from Trondheim? Why don't you break through the Blåmannsissen? - We tried it, but it is a glacier on which our forces are very vulnerable and there is no road to access it, the mines in the Sulitjelma area are only served by the bottom of the fjord which we do not control. As for crossing the fjord, here too we have no road to transport heavy equipment, we have to go through the fjord and the British have destroyed or taken away all the ships while evacuating Saltdal. - Put all the means at work to finish quickly! I expect results as soon as possible. Present me with a plan by tomorrow!" Skjerstad Fjord - Saltdal Fjord - Nedrevatnet - Øvrevatnet - Fauske - Finneid - Saltdal - Rognan - Blåmannsissen glacier - Swedish Border (upper right)June 15 - The Germans attacked from Laskå to Finneid after a violent but short preparation of aerial bombardment (about thirty He 111 and thirty Ju 87 are engaged). Taking advantage of the last moments of the shelling, engineers crossed at Finneid and Gjemgam and threw improvised footbridges over the icy and turbulent waters. A confused melee took place on the banks of the fjord and the few defenders were quickly overwhelmed. But as soon as the aerial bombardment ended, the snipers on the heights made a massacre among the attackers. A few houses were taken which allowed the Germans to have a small protection but any attempt to advance towards the slopes in Gjemgam or in the village in Finneid were violently pushed back. The German reinforcements now had to cross an open space under fire from the defenders above them or from the artillery behind the front. On their side, the British and Norwegians committed their reserves at Finneid to push the enemy out of the now ruined village. On the eastern side of teh front, the result in Laskå was exactly the same as June 8: Germans couldn't cross the bottom of the valley.
English fighters came too late to intervene against bombers and could only straff crossing ennemies.After a day of hard hand-to-hand fighting, the Gebirgsjägers, having run out of ammunition, had to withdraw, leaving many dead, wounded or prisoners. The Anglo-Norwegians suffered relatively few losses, mainly during the recapture of Finneid, the log fortifications having been extremely resistant to the bombardment. On the other hand, the artillery, more exposed, was heavily hit. Two Gladiators was badly damaged. Fauske and Finneid are in ashes.On the German side, in addition to the losses on the ground, six bombers were destroyed or damaged beyond repair by the AA artillery. June 16 - Hitler's anger is phenomenal. There is, so to speak, no more organized resistance in France, Paris is taken, and an elite division is still held at bay by a handful of men in Norway. The order was given to reinforce the aerial capacities in the North. One option would be to invade Sweden. |
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DMZ
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Post by DMZ on Nov 30, 2021 21:10:13 GMT
stevep, Despite their withdraw, British will have to continue to support Norwegians, this is a heavy burden for England at this very time. The BEF has to be fully reequiped and the aerial defense of Great Britain is top priority (AA artillery and fighters). And the RN have to escort the convoys when Mediterranean Sea needs reinforcement... Of course, the reinforcement of the Luftwaffe in Norway is a good news for England but it won't be so huge. lordroel, Invading Sweden is tempting but maybe not enought to seize Narvik. This will be discussed.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Dec 1, 2021 4:16:54 GMT
lordroel, Invading Sweden is tempting but maybe not enought to seize Narvik. This will be discussed. And it will open up a new can of worms. |
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DMZ
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Post by DMZ on Dec 1, 2021 22:38:26 GMT
June 17 - Luftwaffe launchs a big reprisal raid on Tromsø. To avoid naval radar, visual detection and Bardufoss fighters interception, He 111 fly over Sweden.
June 17 - German 181. ID starts its deployment west of Saltdal Fjord. They encounter Norwegian elements from 14th Regiment at Misvær. Without heavy weapons and far from their logistical base at Rognan, Germans have to move back.
June 18 - British government demands Sweden to enforce its neutrality.
June 18 - The Swedish government asks for explanation to German ambassador about the border incident. Instead of apologizes, he replies that this is war and makes barely veiled threats if any country try to impede the German fight for its survival.
June 18 - Operation Paul is launched. Twelve Swordfish modified with additionnal fuel tanks drop magnetic mines in and out Luleå Swedish harbour. Six Swordfish are lost for various reasons, the others succeed to reach the carriers Ark Royal and Glorious. Maritime traffic is interrupted.
June 19 - General Auchinleck, after debriefing of the German offensive on June 15th with general Ruge, general Fleicher and general Béthouart, informs London that without RAF reinforcement and RDF (Range and Direction Finding: radar) coverage, the front will be difficult to held. Artillery replacement is also urgent.
June 19 - Formal protest from Swedish government after Luleå raid. Foreign Office apologizes but replies Great Britain considers Germany doesn't respect Swedish neutrality. It offers compensations in return.
June 20 - War Cabinet accepts to send recomplement for 46 Squadron (8 Hurricanes) and 263 Squadron (10 Gladiators), 6 more Gladiators will be delivered to RNoAAS (Royal Norwegian Army Air Service) and 20 Norwegian pilots will be sent to Scotland to be trained on Hurricanes. Four GM RDF stations (50 km range) will be implemented on Værøy (height 100 m) the most western Lofoten island, on a mount 18 km NE of Bodø (height 650 m), on another 3 km NW of Straume (height 650 m) and 2 km south of Björnfjell, near the Swedish border (height 1.000 m). The two first will cover the coast and the Vest Fjord entrance to Bodø and Narvik, the second is in the alignment of several valleys south of Fausk and will give the best coverage over the moutains and the last will cover Narvik region including Swedish air space to prevent any German attempt to take advantage of an eastern incursion path. This scheme is expected to give 10 minutes advance notice to the fighters. To cover the front area, Bodø airfield will be repaired and protected by more AA artillery, a flight of Gladiators will be based on with direct phone line with the two radars located between Bodø and Straume. Evenes/Skånland airfield will be drained and put in condition to home the second Gladiators flight. Norwegian Gladiators will be based in Elvenes. Two GL radar stations will be implemented at Bodø and Fauske for heavy AA guns' laying. Two additionnal airfields will be built in Nordbotn as dispersal for Bardufoss and at Andenes to benefit from different weather near Harstad.
June 20 - As British are reluctant to provide more AA guns, Nowegian government starts negotiation with Sweden to buy 100 Bofors 40 mm L/60 to equip airfields and ships. But Swedes are not keen to accept such a deal in order not to provoke Germans. They propose to reactivate the Mowinckel plan on a new basis: the buffer zone should be between Rognan and Mo i Rana (100 km). This proposal is welcomed by Norwegians as it gives a more comfortable gap between the two opponents, securing a possible cease of fire, Nygaardsvold goverment accepts that Swedes present it to Germans.
June 20 - Germans offer help to sweep mines from Swedish waters.
June 20 - 181. ID attaks in force at Misvær. Overwhelmed, Norwegians are gradually retreating, conceding 5 kilometers but establishing strongest positions on the mountainside at Olaerid, on the western bank of the Misvaerfjord, and Kvarv on the east.
June 21 - Common declaration from Sweden and Finland to reaffirm their strict neutrality and to ask belligerants to respect it.
June 22 - British embassadors in Stockholm and Helsinki deliver messages from Foreign Office assuring United Kingdom is willing to continue to support Scandinavian countries by providing them food, armament and all needed furnitures. In return, it asks for exclusive delivery of nickel and iron ore. Swedes welcome the support but don't want to suppress all deliveries to Germany as there is no longer possibility to export ore through Narvik for a while due to fight destructions. Finnish are more receptive but have to cope with their other neighbor: Soviets make pressure to obtain mining concession, at least Finland will continue to export nickel to USSR if not to Germany.
June 22 - Mowinckel plan is rejected by Germans who refuse to give back any territory to Norwegians. As they suspect English withdrawal, they expect to take advantage of the new situation.
June 25 - A dozen of Bofors 40 mm L/60 are discretely sent from Sweden to Norway.
June 26 - Arrival of the Glorious transporting Gladiators and Hurricanes. There all land safely at Bardufoss.
June 28 - General De Gaulle visits king Haakon VI and Norwegian government. General Béthouart announces he will join De Gaulle and continue the fight.
June 28 - After 10 days the weather returns to good, Luftwaffe starts again raids against Harstad and Tromsø.
June 29 - De Gaulle reviews French troops in Bodø. Most of the men of Légion Étrangère and Chasseurs Alpins decide to join the Free French.
June 29 - With the good weather, Luftwaffe launchs 60 bombers over the trenches at Laskå, followed by mountain artillery shelling. Gebirgsjägers cross the valley under smoke screen and defense is pushed and pierced in several places. Violent fights result and Norwegians have to bake away several kilometers but recover on the ridge. Attack is stalling but Germans infiltrate on north following the valley. Reinforcement are sent and Germans are slowly pushed back to the bottom. Skuas from Ark Royal bomb the Germans that have reached the top of the plateau.
June 30 - Two companies of Chasseurs Alpins intervene from Elvemo to disloge intruders on the Startveråfjell, NE of Laskå. Without support, Gebirgsjägers withdraw to the south-east.
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