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Post by TheRomanSlayer on Mar 14, 2021 19:10:50 GMT
This is looking very grim for everybody, with the possible exception of Europe and the new Russian state. China is ever more murderous and deranged than OTL, the Philippines has a tin-pot Hitler who is happy turning that country [as well as others] into a graveyard and the CIA are doing everything they can to distablise Latin America, as well as the US itself. Worst of all possibly is
If Jackson can't keep the idiots in the CIA under control what the hell will those nutters get up to when they have actual Presidential support?  That Kemp is a moronic idiot in TTL doesn't surprise me unfortunately but a lot of chickens are going to come home to roost for the US even if democracy recovers there.
Remember how the Corsair faction of the CIA had assassinated a US president after she placed Oliver North under arrest for several charges, and outing him as the leader of the Corsairs? That is an example of the CIA trying to destabilize the US itself. I'm not exactly sure if Kemp was a moron IOTL, but ITTL having him become president might make him a bit more popular with the middle and upper classes, but unpopular with the lower classes. There will be a reason why the left will try to satirize him as "Mein Kemp". I doubt even Ye Fei would be insane to recommend to the Chinese bigwigs to send ground troops to his former homeland, without triggering a wider conflict with the US. Keep in mind, the Taiwan Straits Crisis would be one way for Jackson to avoid getting impeached again, but it is a good way for him to lose the 1996 US presidential election to Jack Kemp, who would become a more aggressive president. Also, Vietnam is also in the middle of a two-front war with China and Cambodia, so if China sends actual troops to invade the Philippines, it will indeed fight a two front war as well. Although seeing Cambodia as the weak link, Vietnam might be able to retake some of its lost territories, and unfortunately pull a scenario to Operation: Storm of OTL, or Operation: Batyr of TTL. Ironically enough, the recent Chinese attempt at invading the Philippines might actually make the Filipinos view Japan with more positivity, since Jesse Jackson pretty much hung them out to dry, and we are already seeing it by the rehabilitation (later on) of the Second Philippine Republic, and this would also create a different conflict between the Philippines and the rest of SE Asia that suffered from Japanese occupation (except Indonesia, since much of Indonesia's pro-independence fighters were actually trained by the Japanese). The moment the PLA would make landfall in the Philippines it would be a bloodbath because the Chinese would have a hard time navigating through the jungles. I could the see the beaches of Appari, Lingayen, La Union, etc be defended or even be placed with booby traps. Come urban warfare and it would be a nightmare. Filipinos would not want to be under a foreign power again and even someone has weak as Jackson would not abandon Taiwan. With the U.S. Navy going to defend Taiwan here even one carrier strike group could cover the entirety of Luzon so the Chinese would not dare. I could see the Khmer Rouge get streamrolled once more. They are not a highly trained force so the VPA would definitely route them. In addition, the Vietnamese too would see the Japanese as saviors despite being occupied by them 50 years prior. Just like the case of Indonesia, over 800 Imperial Japanese Army soldiers remained in Vietnam where they trained and organized the Viet Minh. Most of these Japanese soldiers had reasons ranging from humiliation to return to an U.S.-occupied Japan, anting to keep the Empire's promise of ridding Asia of Westerners, or to escape from war criminal trials. That would be true, if the Philippine military is being well supplied. Thanks to the arms embargo, China might not have this problem, but then again, the Corsairs will become very busy when Chinese troops will try to invade. Even Indonesia would definitely get involved, and expect an official American military aid to Indonesia to materialize. Don't forget that Indonesia might also have the East Timorese insurgency on their hands as well, so maybe Subianto would just give the East Timorese autonomy, similar to the Bangsamoro acquiring autonomy in Mindanao. What we might see here in the future is several years of political instability that could potentially create a violent power vacuum that could result in the possible collapse of communism in Vietnam. In addition, the Khmer Rogue would get steamrolled by the Vietnamese once again, but this time the Vietnamese military might commit ethnic cleansing against the Khmer minority inside Vietnam, as payback for the Khmer Rogue's attempted annexation of Vietnamese territory. I also suggest Rage of the Machine being assassinated by Tadiar's Death Squads, or Propagandhi for criticizing Tadiar in their songs. Probably they will use bombs. Or poison. |
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gillan1220
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Post by gillan1220 on Mar 15, 2021 1:46:10 GMT
That would be true, if the Philippine military is being well supplied. Thanks to the arms embargo, China might not have this problem, but then again, the Corsairs will become very busy when Chinese troops will try to invade. Even Indonesia would definitely get involved, and expect an official American military aid to Indonesia to materialize. Don't forget that Indonesia might also have the East Timorese insurgency on their hands as well, so maybe Subianto would just give the East Timorese autonomy, similar to the Bangsamoro acquiring autonomy in Mindanao. What we might see here in the future is several years of political instability that could potentially create a violent power vacuum that could result in the possible collapse of communism in Vietnam. In addition, the Khmer Rogue would get steamrolled by the Vietnamese once again, but this time the Vietnamese military might commit ethnic cleansing against the Khmer minority inside Vietnam, as payback for the Khmer Rogue's attempted annexation of Vietnamese territory. Doesn't Japan and Indonesia support the Philippines here with weapons? As with the CIA? I totally forgot about East Timor. How will its independence go out here? |
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Post by TheRomanSlayer on Mar 15, 2021 2:17:08 GMT
Indirectly, and covertly, in case of Indonesia. The Yakuza might actually infiltrate the humanitarian mission by sending its members to pose as relief effort workers, and we might even see Shoko Asahara and Aum Shinrikyo volunteering in the Philippines as well. If the Chinese sent ground troops, it would not be out of Tadiar's mind to arm AUm Shinrikyo, and that is exactly how Tadiar starts using fringe cults to commit acts of terrorism. Fortunately, we won't get to see the Reunification Church go down the same level as Aum Shinrikyo, but we might see certain chaebols with ties to the Tongil Foundation start their business in the Philippines as well.
Not sure if East Timor might go independent, since Subianto might actually try to give them autonomy on the same model as Nur Misuari. Look for an East Timorese version of Misuari to emerge here.
Another thing too: I will start planning my next TL projects sometime soon, but one of them is a continued reboot of "To Rebuild a Shattered World".
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gillan1220
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Post by gillan1220 on Mar 15, 2021 11:12:52 GMT
Indirectly, and covertly, in case of Indonesia. The Yakuza might actually infiltrate the humanitarian mission by sending its members to pose as relief effort workers, and we might even see Shoko Asahara and Aum Shinrikyo volunteering in the Philippines as well. If the Chinese sent ground troops, it would not be out of Tadiar's mind to arm AUm Shinrikyo, and that is exactly how Tadiar starts using fringe cults to commit acts of terrorism. Fortunately, we won't get to see the Reunification Church go down the same level as Aum Shinrikyo, but we might see certain chaebols with ties to the Tongil Foundation start their business in the Philippines as well. Not sure if East Timor might go independent, since Subianto might actually try to give them autonomy on the same model as Nur Misuari. Look for an East Timorese version of Misuari to emerge here. Another thing too: I will start planning my next TL projects sometime soon, but one of them is a continued reboot of "To Rebuild a Shattered World". Aum Shinrikyo here would be more dangerous as it was in our timeline. They would probably be in par with Al-Qaeda. I remember I was in Tokyo when Asahara was executed on July 6, 2018. It was the second day of our trip and that was the first thing I read upon waking up for breakfast. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Mar 15, 2021 12:38:12 GMT
This is looking very grim for everybody, with the possible exception of Europe and the new Russian state. China is ever more murderous and deranged than OTL, the Philippines has a tin-pot Hitler who is happy turning that country [as well as others] into a graveyard and the CIA are doing everything they can to distablise Latin America, as well as the US itself. Worst of all possibly is
If Jackson can't keep the idiots in the CIA under control what the hell will those nutters get up to when they have actual Presidential support? That Kemp is a moronic idiot in TTL doesn't surprise me unfortunately but a lot of chickens are going to come home to roost for the US even if democracy recovers there.
Remember how the Corsair faction of the CIA had assassinated a US president after she placed Oliver North under arrest for several charges, and outing him as the leader of the Corsairs? That is an example of the CIA trying to destabilize the US itself. I'm not exactly sure if Kemp was a moron IOTL, but ITTL having him become president might make him a bit more popular with the middle and upper classes, but unpopular with the lower classes. There will be a reason why the left will try to satirize him as "Mein Kemp". The moment the PLA would make landfall in the Philippines it would be a bloodbath because the Chinese would have a hard time navigating through the jungles. I could the see the beaches of Appari, Lingayen, La Union, etc be defended or even be placed with booby traps. Come urban warfare and it would be a nightmare. Filipinos would not want to be under a foreign power again and even someone has weak as Jackson would not abandon Taiwan. With the U.S. Navy going to defend Taiwan here even one carrier strike group could cover the entirety of Luzon so the Chinese would not dare. I could see the Khmer Rouge get streamrolled once more. They are not a highly trained force so the VPA would definitely route them. In addition, the Vietnamese too would see the Japanese as saviors despite being occupied by them 50 years prior. Just like the case of Indonesia, over 800 Imperial Japanese Army soldiers remained in Vietnam where they trained and organized the Viet Minh. Most of these Japanese soldiers had reasons ranging from humiliation to return to an U.S.-occupied Japan, anting to keep the Empire's promise of ridding Asia of Westerners, or to escape from war criminal trials. That would be true, if the Philippine military is being well supplied. Thanks to the arms embargo, China might not have this problem, but then again, the Corsairs will become very busy when Chinese troops will try to invade. Even Indonesia would definitely get involved, and expect an official American military aid to Indonesia to materialize. Don't forget that Indonesia might also have the East Timorese insurgency on their hands as well, so maybe Subianto would just give the East Timorese autonomy, similar to the Bangsamoro acquiring autonomy in Mindanao. What we might see here in the future is several years of political instability that could potentially create a violent power vacuum that could result in the possible collapse of communism in Vietnam. In addition, the Khmer Rogue would get steamrolled by the Vietnamese once again, but this time the Vietnamese military might commit ethnic cleansing against the Khmer minority inside Vietnam, as payback for the Khmer Rogue's attempted annexation of Vietnamese territory. I also suggest Rage of the Machine being assassinated by Tadiar's Death Squads, or Propagandhi for criticizing Tadiar in their songs. Probably they will use bombs. Or poison.
I didn't literally mean a moron but he would be reckless indeed to encourage such actions, especially when many of them are in direct contradiction of Congress. That one group has already murdered a US President, which I admit I had forgotten, shows how bad things have gotten. The US might not become a police state ruled by terror but its getting close to the edge, especially when a sitting President is encouraging such actions to destablise neighbouring states. That the corsairs got away with such a murder without a massive lock down on them shows how deep the crisis is. Kemp will hopefully be recognised as one of the worst Presidents in US history as that would suggest democracy and rule of law survives there.
Steve
Steve
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Post by TheRomanSlayer on Mar 15, 2021 14:52:15 GMT
Indirectly, and covertly, in case of Indonesia. The Yakuza might actually infiltrate the humanitarian mission by sending its members to pose as relief effort workers, and we might even see Shoko Asahara and Aum Shinrikyo volunteering in the Philippines as well. If the Chinese sent ground troops, it would not be out of Tadiar's mind to arm AUm Shinrikyo, and that is exactly how Tadiar starts using fringe cults to commit acts of terrorism. Fortunately, we won't get to see the Reunification Church go down the same level as Aum Shinrikyo, but we might see certain chaebols with ties to the Tongil Foundation start their business in the Philippines as well. Not sure if East Timor might go independent, since Subianto might actually try to give them autonomy on the same model as Nur Misuari. Look for an East Timorese version of Misuari to emerge here. Another thing too: I will start planning my next TL projects sometime soon, but one of them is a continued reboot of "To Rebuild a Shattered World". Aum Shinrikyo here would be more dangerous as it was in our timeline. They would probably be in par with Al-Qaeda. I remember I was in Tokyo when Asahara was executed on July 6, 2018. It was the second day of our trip and that was the first thing I read upon waking up for breakfast. True, and the worst part is that there is a foreign backer willing to use them in order to hurt their enemies that badly. Remember how the Corsair faction of the CIA had assassinated a US president after she placed Oliver North under arrest for several charges, and outing him as the leader of the Corsairs? That is an example of the CIA trying to destabilize the US itself. I'm not exactly sure if Kemp was a moron IOTL, but ITTL having him become president might make him a bit more popular with the middle and upper classes, but unpopular with the lower classes. There will be a reason why the left will try to satirize him as "Mein Kemp". That would be true, if the Philippine military is being well supplied. Thanks to the arms embargo, China might not have this problem, but then again, the Corsairs will become very busy when Chinese troops will try to invade. Even Indonesia would definitely get involved, and expect an official American military aid to Indonesia to materialize. Don't forget that Indonesia might also have the East Timorese insurgency on their hands as well, so maybe Subianto would just give the East Timorese autonomy, similar to the Bangsamoro acquiring autonomy in Mindanao. What we might see here in the future is several years of political instability that could potentially create a violent power vacuum that could result in the possible collapse of communism in Vietnam. In addition, the Khmer Rogue would get steamrolled by the Vietnamese once again, but this time the Vietnamese military might commit ethnic cleansing against the Khmer minority inside Vietnam, as payback for the Khmer Rogue's attempted annexation of Vietnamese territory. Or poison.
I didn't literally mean a moron but he would be reckless indeed to encourage such actions, especially when many of them are in direct contradiction of Congress. That one group has already murdered a US President, which I admit I had forgotten, shows how bad things have gotten. The US might not become a police state ruled by terror but its getting close to the edge, especially when a sitting President is encouraging such actions to destablise neighbouring states. That the corsairs got away with such a murder without a massive lock down on them shows how deep the crisis is. Kemp will hopefully be recognised as one of the worst Presidents in US history as that would suggest democracy and rule of law survives there.
Steve
Steve
Well, Kemp ITTL might have a worse reputation than both TTL and OTL Reagan, and OTL Trump in terms of notoriety. His knee jerk reaction would come at a time when the establishment in the US have to deal with the ineptitude of Jesse Jackson's Presidency. |
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Post by kyuzoaoi on Mar 15, 2021 15:46:59 GMT
Indeed.
BTW, what is Tadiar doing with the industrialization efforts?
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Post by TheRomanSlayer on Mar 16, 2021 2:32:43 GMT
Indeed. BTW, what is Tadiar doing with the industrialization efforts? Hard to industrialize when your country is being bombed to bits, although he is trying to improve on the food situation. Why else would TTL's Filipinos start eating shark meat and drink carabao milk? |
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Post by kyuzoaoi on Mar 16, 2021 4:12:23 GMT
Indeed. Maybe Tadiar for some reason even ask Iran to ease their oil crisis. And speaking of which, instead of Venirauto, which is butterflied away due to Chavez's death, we get this: www.google.com/search?q=venirauto&source=lnms&tbm=isch&biw=1366&bih=625Venirauto is a Venezuelan-Iranian joint venture. Tadiar in 2006 might want a new car factory and only Iran is willing to help him restart the car industry. Now we can get rid of the jeepneys since most might be bombed in 1995 or in the scrapyard.  Imagine that Filipino-built car from Sarao Motors (now banned from producing jeeps and had been expropriated by Tadiar and co.) becoming the standard Filipino car in the 2000s. |
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Post by TheRomanSlayer on Mar 16, 2021 4:36:14 GMT
Indeed. Maybe Tadiar for some reason even ask Iran to ease their oil crisis. And speaking of which, instead of Venirauto, which is butterflied away due to Chavez's death, we get this: www.google.com/search?q=venirauto&source=lnms&tbm=isch&biw=1366&bih=625Venirauto is a Venezuelan-Iranian joint venture. Tadiar in 2006 might want a new car factory and only Iran is willing to help him restart the car industry. Now we can get rid of the jeepneys since most might be bombed in 1995 or in the scrapyard. Imagine that Filipino-built car from Sarao Motors (now banned from producing jeeps and had been expropriated by Tadiar and co.) becoming the standard Filipino car in the 2000s. India stands to have a better chance of launching a joint project with the Philippines than Iran. For instance, we might have this improved version of the tricycle emerging:  In my opinion, this would be a better improvement over the existing tricycles that I had to ride when I was a kid, going to school. The Indian version of the tricycle has a better safety record than the Filipino one. The one below would be a suitable vehicle for the busy streets of Manila, Cebu, and even Baguio City:  Or this:  I distinctly remember someone who invented a vehicle that could easily run on water as its fuel source. All I can remember is that the invention may have come from the Philippines, but other than that, I do not know who invented it. ITTL, that might be of the crazy projects that the Tadiar regime might implement, to the benefit of the entire world, ironically. |
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Post by kyuzoaoi on Mar 16, 2021 5:08:14 GMT
I think this would be better, maybe include it in your updates.
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Post by TheRomanSlayer on Mar 16, 2021 5:14:02 GMT
I think this would be better, maybe include it in your updates. That would be way later, sometime in the late 2000s. |
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gillan1220
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Post by gillan1220 on Mar 16, 2021 6:53:07 GMT
Would the 500 years of Christianity celebrations still occur in this alternate Philippines with the same Spanish ship as OTL following the same route?  |
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Post by TheRomanSlayer on Mar 17, 2021 0:59:35 GMT
Would the 500 years of Christianity celebrations still occur in this alternate Philippines with the same Spanish ship as OTL following the same route? Most likely, although it would be more of a somber affair, with Tadiar having broken diplomatic ties with the Vatican, and it took Loren Legarda of TTL to restore it. |
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gillan1220
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Post by gillan1220 on Mar 17, 2021 5:03:36 GMT
Would the 500 years of Christianity celebrations still occur in this alternate Philippines with the same Spanish ship as OTL following the same route? Most likely, although it would be more of a somber affair, with Tadiar having broken diplomatic ties with the Vatican, and it took Loren Legarda of TTL to restore it. 5 years left to go in 2021 for TTL so I could see relations with the Vatican being restored just right in time for the 500 years of Christianity. |
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That Kemp is a moronic idiot in TTL doesn't surprise me unfortunately but a lot of chickens are going to come home to roost for the US even if democracy recovers there.
