lordroel
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Post by lordroel on May 22, 2020 2:46:28 GMT
Comrade Dave, The DE Royal Fleet Auxiliary and RN is fair bit better developed, given the requirements of range, the long term planning and the earlier naval rearmament. Dedicated ConstructionTankers/Oilers: 16 Wave class oilers completed between 1940 and 1943, 8 Ranger class tankers built 1938-1940, 35 Dale class oilers built 1936-1940, 12 Gold class tankers built 1928-1935 and 20 Ol class tankers built 1918-1923. Combat Stores Ships: 12 Fort class built 1940-1943, 6 Bacchus class built 1936-1940 Maintenance and Repair Ships: 4 Resource class built 1928-1934, 4 Faithful class built 1936-1940, 4 Artifex class built 1940-1943; 4 Abundance class built 1941-1944, 24 Beachy Head class built 1942-1945 (+ 8 Destroyer Tenders, 4 Submarine Depot Ships, 3 Torpedo Boat Tenders, 3 Seaplane Tenders, 12 Salvage Ships) Merchant Conversions Amenities Ships: 5 Menestheus class Combat Supply Ships: 42 Empire ships Ammunition Ships: 8 Vesuvius class General Stores Issue Ships: 20 Luna class Maintenance Ships: 17 Empire ships Would aircraft carrier tenders be also on the list. |
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Post by simon darkshade on May 22, 2020 3:19:30 GMT
No.
There is no such ship, not on Earth, Dark Earth or any fictional universe that I've heard of.
Tenders and depot ships are designed to provide base support at forward operating bases or ports for smaller vessels not capable of independent operations. These have typically consisted of destroyers and submarines in the 20th century, but there have also been some for landing craft, MTBs, small escorts and generally any small ships without the room for maintenance, recreation and other services. The smallest ship considered capable of independent operations was typically the cruiser; indeed, this is one of the terms that define it. Thus, cruisers, battleships and aircraft carriers never had any tenders, as they had all the onboard facilities, shops and berthing space necessary.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on May 22, 2020 8:23:16 GMT
No. There is no such ship, not on Earth, Dark Earth or any fictional universe that I've heard of. Tenders and depot ships are designed to provide base support at forward operating bases or ports for smaller vessels not capable of independent operations. These have typically consisted of destroyers and submarines in the 20th century, but there have also been some for landing craft, MTBs, small escorts and generally any small ships without the room for maintenance, recreation and other services. The smallest ship considered capable of independent operations was typically the cruiser; indeed, this is one of the terms that define it. Thus, cruisers, battleships and aircraft carriers never had any tenders, as they had all the onboard facilities, shops and berthing space necessary. What about OTL Shinano she was converted into a carrier that supported other carriers. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on May 22, 2020 11:15:03 GMT
Interesting and a hell of a lot of ships. A bit disappointed we don't have a HMS Temeraire but possibly that ship name is already used or is in the unnamed 42 ships. Notice you seem to be using BBB for battleships whereas I've normally seen then referenced as BB.
How does one group of the military feel about having a BB named after them? Probably makes them more prideful than normally or do they dislike comparison with a sea limited unit? 
Very good details on production and Japanese production holds up a lot better than I would have expected.
Always had the viewpoint that if you could get forces there and support them logistically a relatively small force of modern western heavy units alongside the KMT [or whatever the main anti Japanese forces are here since we end up with an empire] would have been a good way of really chewing up the Japanese forces in China. Although of course with the predominantly naval approach it wasn't actually needed.
Steve
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on May 22, 2020 13:50:40 GMT
How does one group of the military feel about having a BB named after them? Probably makes them more prideful than normally or do they dislike comparison with a sea limited unit?
What BB would that be stevep . |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on May 22, 2020 14:20:10 GMT
How does one group of the military feel about having a BB named after them? Probably makes them more prideful than normally or do they dislike comparison with a sea limited unit?
What BB would that be stevep .
HMS Dragon. Sorry if I was being too vague.
True there were ships of that name OTL although I don't think every a battleship but here there are actual dragons in existence. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on May 22, 2020 14:25:03 GMT
Comrade Dave, The DE Royal Fleet Auxiliary and RN is fair bit better developed, given the requirements of range, the long term planning and the earlier naval rearmament. Dedicated ConstructionTankers/Oilers: 16 Wave class oilers completed between 1940 and 1943, 8 Ranger class tankers built 1938-1940, 35 Dale class oilers built 1936-1940, 12 Gold class tankers built 1928-1935 and 20 Ol class tankers built 1918-1923. Combat Stores Ships: 12 Fort class built 1940-1943, 6 Bacchus class built 1936-1940 Maintenance and Repair Ships: 4 Resource class built 1928-1934, 4 Faithful class built 1936-1940, 4 Artifex class built 1940-1943; 4 Abundance class built 1941-1944, 24 Beachy Head class built 1942-1945 (+ 8 Destroyer Tenders, 4 Submarine Depot Ships, 3 Torpedo Boat Tenders, 3 Seaplane Tenders, 12 Salvage Ships) Merchant Conversions Amenities Ships: 5 Menestheus class Combat Supply Ships: 42 Empire ships Ammunition Ships: 8 Vesuvius class General Stores Issue Ships: 20 Luna class Maintenance Ships: 17 Empire ships Would aircraft carrier tenders be also on the list.
Missed this earlier - didn't notice this last page  . An example here might be HMS_Unicorn, which was a support carrier, designed in large part to enable repairs of damaged a/c in theatre that would be beyond that of the main front line carriers.
I think as you mentioned further down Shinano was primarily planned - as completed - to ferry a/c to other locations, either land bases or other carriers, if Japan had any left by the time it was completed, rather than operate them itself as a strike carrier. Hence I suspect its actually as a very large BB.
Steve
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on May 22, 2020 14:37:44 GMT
What BB would that be stevep . HMS Dragon. Sorry if I was being too vague.
True there were ships of that name OTL although I don't think every a battleship but here there are actual dragons in existence. Well it would not be the first case that a ships is named after a serivce in the armed forces i presume. A example would be HMS Gurkha, 3 ships have been given that name after a people who originate in Nepal and who serve with distinction in the British Army as part of the Brigade of Gurkhas. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on May 22, 2020 15:27:46 GMT
HMS Dragon. Sorry if I was being too vague.
True there were ships of that name OTL although I don't think every a battleship but here there are actual dragons in existence. Well it would not be the first case that a ships is named after a serivce in the armed forces i presume. A example would be HMS Gurkha, 3 ships have been given that name after a people who originate in Nepal and who serve with distinction in the British Army as part of the Brigade of Gurkhas.
Interesting. Hadn't realised that. Thought the only HMS Gurkha was one pf the 'Tribal' class DDs, many of which were named after assorted martial peoples - some of which IIRC not associated with the empire at all.
Actually checking while the 1st HMS Gurkha was initially for the Royal Indian Navy there were an earlier class of tribals in WWI and wiki lists 5 such ships, HMS_Gurkha, although the RN haven't had one since 1984.
Steve
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on May 22, 2020 15:38:57 GMT
Well it would not be the first case that a ships is named after a serivce in the armed forces i presume. A example would be HMS Gurkha, 3 ships have been given that name after a people who originate in Nepal and who serve with distinction in the British Army as part of the Brigade of Gurkhas. Interesting. Hadn't realised that. Thought the only HMS Gurkha was one pf the 'Tribal' class DDs, many of which were named after assorted martial peoples - some of which IIRC not associated with the empire at all.
Actually checking while the 1st HMS Gurkha was initially for the Royal Indian Navy there were an earlier class of tribals in WWI and wiki lists 5 such ships, HMS_Gurkha, although the RN haven't had one since 1984. Steve
Also there are, checking quikjly, might be more out there: HMS Zulu, after the African Zulu people and warriors. HMS Anzac, after the Australian and New Zealand Army Corps (ANZAC. |
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Post by simon darkshade on May 22, 2020 16:20:19 GMT
Shinano is a battleship. The @ circumstances do not exist.
Lion and Temeraire are the RN battleships that commission in 1939; that is seen in their inclusion in previous references and orders of battle.
The naming of Dragon should not be viewed as anything truly deep regarding different arms.
BBB is simply a shorthand for super battleship.
Gurkha is a Tribal class destroyer, as in @.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on May 22, 2020 16:22:57 GMT
BBB is simply a shorthand for super battleship. And i assume that designer have ore had planes for a supper super BB, ore is there a limit on what can be build. |
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Post by simon darkshade on May 22, 2020 16:26:49 GMT
No.
Super battleship is simply the terminology used in the general developmental flow, following on from dreadnought and super dreadnought.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on May 23, 2020 10:30:31 GMT
Interesting. Hadn't realised that. Thought the only HMS Gurkha was one pf the 'Tribal' class DDs, many of which were named after assorted martial peoples - some of which IIRC not associated with the empire at all.
Actually checking while the 1st HMS Gurkha was initially for the Royal Indian Navy there were an earlier class of tribals in WWI and wiki lists 5 such ships, HMS_Gurkha, although the RN haven't had one since 1984. Steve
Also there are, checking quikjly, might be more out there: HMS Zulu, after the African Zulu people and warriors. HMS Anzac, after the Australian and New Zealand Army Corps (ANZAC.
In terms of the WWII Tribals there were 27 built, 16 for the RN, 8 for RCN and 3 for the RAN. See Tribal class names for their names. For the WWI ships see WWI Tribal class of which 12 were built although notice the 13th, HMS Zubian at the end of the list. A number such as Tartar, Nubian, Cossack, Viking have no clear connection with the empire at all so its not just groups within it who provided names.
Steve
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stevep
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Post by stevep on May 23, 2020 10:44:01 GMT
Shinano is a battleship. The @ circumstances do not exist. Lion and Temeraire are the RN battleships that commission in 1939; that is seen in their inclusion in previous references and orders of battle. The naming of Dragon should not be viewed as anything truly deep regarding different arms. BBB is simply a shorthand for super battleship. Gurkha is a Tribal class destroyer, as in @.
OK thanks for clarifying, both on the use of the triple B and the Temeraire as I knew there was one planned in the OTL Lion class.
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. An example here might be