stevep
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Post by stevep on Nov 1, 2020 12:47:34 GMT
At the beginning of 1943, the Allied perception was that the Battle of the Atlantic was won. This changed over the course of the year with the debut of the Type XXI, but this too was countered in due course. The German surface fleet was boxed in and contained. There will be details of a battle that occurs during 1943. However, at the beginning of the year, the Germans could give themselves the temporary delusion that the Kriegsmarine had the capacity for a breakout, having a strength of the following major vessels: 7 Battleships (1st Rates) Hindenburg: 135,000t, 8 x 600mm, 12 x 240mm, 24 x 128mm, 32 x 88mm 72 x 40mm, 32kts Friedrich der Große:135,000t, 8 x 600mm, 12 x 240mm, 24 x 128mm, 32 x 88mm, 72 x 40mm, 32kts Grossdeutschland: 135,000t, 8 x 600mm, 12 x 240mm, 24 x 128mm, 32 x 88mm, 72 x 40mm 32kts Mackensen: 135,000t, 8 x 600mm, 12 x 240mm, 24 x 128mm, 32 x 88mm, 72 x 40mm, 32kts Tirpitz: 125,000t, 8 x 600mm, 24 x 128mm, 32 x 88mm, 56 x 40mm, 80 x 20mm, 32kts Moltke: 125,000t, 8 x 600mm, 24 x 128mm, 32 x 88mm, 56 x 40mm, 80 x 20mm, 32kts Derrflinger: 125,000t, 8 x 600mm, 24 x 128mm, 32 x 88mm, 56 x 40mm, 80 x 20mm, 32kts 3 Battleships (2nd Rate) Scharnhorst: 96,000t, 9 x 510mm, 16 x 150mm, 20 x 105mm, 48 x 37mm, 64 x 20mm, 33kts Goeben: 96,000t, 9 x 510mm, 16 x 150mm, 20 x 105mm, 48 x 37mm, 64 x 20mm, 33kts Yorck: 96,000t, 9 x 510mm, 16 x 150mm, 20 x 105mm, 48 x 37mm, 64 x 20mm, 33kts 2 Battleships (3rd Rates) Sachsen: 69,000t, 8 x 480mm, 12 x 150mm, 20 x 105mm, 28.5kts Baden : 69,000t, 8 x 480mm, 12 x 150mm, 20 x 105mm, 28.5kts 5 Battlecruisers Thor Arminius Heimdall Wotan 5 Aircraft Carriers Graf Zeppelin Otto Lilienthal Friedrich Metzing Werner Voss Oswald Boelcke On initial examination, that seems like a strong fleet and it is one of the strongest in the world. The problem is that it is up against the three stronger Allied navies, the Soviets, the RAF and the USAF. Whilst running low on oil supplies. And the Italians being neutralised, allowing the bulk of the fleet from there to be redeployed. I came late to this topic.
Simon am I missing something?
Those displacement tonnages are huge. Those guns are huge.
Simon has a huge background for his DE universe, which is vastly different from ours including many different races, most from fantasy but also Martians and Venusian. Earth has a couple of smaller moons as well as Luna and the Earth itself is 50% larger than ours. Which means countries are ~2.25 larger in surface areas, enabling larger populations and industrial production. Plus its a lot longer between countries and there are some additional islands as well as historical Atlantis and Mu although both of those have been lost. Personally I think the 24" guns are OTT but it's Simon's world. If you have a few hundred hours free have a read through what he's written already. Its definitely a Brit-wank and a more conservative world than I would be happy with but also very interesting how much he's put together.
Steve
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Post by simon darkshade on Nov 1, 2020 15:15:01 GMT
As ever, some stats:
As of the beginning of 1943, the USAF deploys 25,684 combat aircraft (+ 15,972 USN), the RAF 18,432 (+ 7486 RN), the Soviet Union 16,562, the Luftwaffe 15,948 (+ 1117 Kriegsmarine), the IJAF 7627 (+ 5246 IJN), Italy 4925 and Austria-Hungary 3629.
1/1/1943 World's Largest Air Forces
1.) USA: 56742 2.) Britain: 25964 3.) Soviet Union: 20034 4.) Germany: 19623 5.) Japan: 8922 6.) Italy: 6870 7.) Austria-Hungary: 5327 8.) Canada: 4192 9.) Free France: 3636 10.) Australia: 2459
1/1/1943 World's Largest Armies
1.) Soviet Union: 12,547,000/564 divisions 2.) Germany: 7,835,362/356 divisions 3.) USA: 7,798,593/183 divisions 4.) China: 5,688,000/525 divisions 5.) British India: 4,892,000/72 divisions 6.) Britain: 4,629,783/93 divisions 7.) Japan: 4,257,000/162 divisions 8.) Austria-Hungary: 2,896,255/110 divisions 9.) Canada: 2,689,523/32 divisions 10.) Italy: 2,558,752/86 divisions
Battle of the Atlantic
U-Boat Production 1939: 50 1940: 143 1941: 267 1942: 329
Ships/Tonnage Sunk by U-Boats 1939: 228 ships/775,000t 1940: 1121 ships/5,963,000t 1941: 853 ships/4,544,000t 1942: 1092 ships/5,827,000t
U-Boat Losses 1939: 22 1940: 98 1941: 105 1942: 173
British Shipbuilding 1939: 467,258t (Sep-Dec) 1940: 3,289,425t 1941: 4,578,536t 1942: 5,236,897t
Canadian Shipbuilding 1939: 123,956t (Sep-Dec) 1940: 694,231t 1941: 1,362,830t 1942: 2,248,435t
US Shipbuilding 1939: 392,108t (Sep-Dec) 1940: 2,546,330t 1941: 5,247,886t 1942: 12,855,379t
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Post by simon darkshade on Nov 1, 2020 15:43:27 GMT
I came late to this topic.
Simon am I missing something?
Those displacement tonnages are huge. Those guns are huge.
Simon has a huge background for his DE universe, which is vastly different from ours including many different races, most from fantasy but also Martians and Venusian. Earth has a couple of smaller moons as well as Luna and the Earth itself is 50% larger than ours. Which means countries are ~2.25 larger in surface areas, enabling larger populations and industrial production. Plus its a lot longer between countries and there are some additional islands as well as historical Atlantis and Mu although both of those have been lost. Personally I think the 24" guns are OTT but it's Simon's world. If you have a few hundred hours free have a read through what he's written already. Its definitely a Brit-wank and a more conservative world than I would be happy with but also very interesting how much he's put together.
Steve
Steve, The size of countries is a driver for some developments, certainly. The 24" generation of weapons aren't over the top so much as the next step up from 20". Without the WNT, we would see the 18" enter service in the 1920s and a 20" generation follow on in the 1930s. Incidentally, 24" was a calibre postulated for a 1934 USN battleship study, as well as coming from what is the largest practicable gun size for general construction and deployment in the 1930s if developments continued along the general growth curve interrupted by the WNT. Significantly, I have made reference to more advances in naval armour development, including the incorporation of rather stronger substances. This then drives the need for a very powerful shell capable of penetrating that armour. Using an old DOS programme I found somewhere around the old Springsharp site, I did a lot of modelling and 'testing' of various guns and shell combinations back in 2003-2005 before deciding on the 24". I wouldn't call it a Britwank or such for any particular country so much as an examination of the type of power politics and relations of 1870-1945 extended into the postwar era. There are only a handful of countries that are worse off, per se, and development follows the drivers from events. My primary interest is in writing stories set in the English speaking world, based on ease of research, general affinity, the widest market and availability of resources. Developments follow the drivers. As a general rule: Germany is unified, larger and growing more powerful by the day; France remains a global power in the mid 1960s; Austria-Hungary exists and is developing well; Italy is prospering and not going to experience the Years of Lead; Spain is a parliamentary democracy under a constitutional monarchy that didn't have a disastrous past century; Scandinavia is advanced and powerful; Yugoslavia is unified and democratic; Belgium and the Netherlands are pursuing ever-closer union whilst still playing a broader role; Japan is prospering and not under quite the same restrictions of @; Korea is unified, as is India; Persia is modernising and under different management; Greece is completely different; Mexico is rather more powerful across the board; Argentina hasn't fallen into a marked decline; Canada is a bona fide great power in its own right; the Soviet Union isn't entering a period of Brezhnevian stagnation; and the United States is richer, more powerful and not hit by the twin issues of civil rights and opposition to Vietnam in quite the same way. It is not simply a matter of Britain being ahead whilst the rest of the world sips paint, which is slightly what a 'wank' of any kind implies As for conservatism, there are two factors at play there. Firstly, the era of 1945-1960 was certainly much more socially conservative than today in Britain, the USA, Australia and many, many other places; much of what I've written and wrought simply comes from the time. Secondly, there is an extra edge of social conservatism driven by comparatively greater religiosity, general popular culture reaction to 50+ years of war and crisis, certain events and circumstances driving a different reaction to communism and associated beliefs.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Nov 1, 2020 16:15:11 GMT
Simon has a huge background for his DE universe, which is vastly different from ours including many different races, most from fantasy but also Martians and Venusian. Earth has a couple of smaller moons as well as Luna and the Earth itself is 50% larger than ours. Which means countries are ~2.25 larger in surface areas, enabling larger populations and industrial production. Plus its a lot longer between countries and there are some additional islands as well as historical Atlantis and Mu although both of those have been lost. Personally I think the 24" guns are OTT but it's Simon's world. If you have a few hundred hours free have a read through what he's written already. Its definitely a Brit-wank and a more conservative world than I would be happy with but also very interesting how much he's put together.
Steve
Steve, The size of countries is a driver for some developments, certainly. The 24" generation of weapons aren't over the top so much as the next step up from 20". Without the WNT, we would see the 18" enter service in the 1920s and a 20" generation follow on in the 1930s. Incidentally, 24" was a calibre postulated for a 1934 USN battleship study, as well as coming from what is the largest practicable gun size for general construction and deployment in the 1930s if developments continued along the general growth curve interrupted by the WNT. Significantly, I have made reference to more advances in naval armour development, including the incorporation of rather stronger substances. This then drives the need for a very powerful shell capable of penetrating that armour. Using an old DOS programme I found somewhere around the old Springsharp site, I did a lot of modelling and 'testing' of various guns and shell combinations back in 2003-2005 before deciding on the 24". I wouldn't call it a Britwank or such for any particular country so much as an examination of the type of power politics and relations of 1870-1945 extended into the postwar era. There are only a handful of countries that are worse off, per se, and development follows the drivers from events. My primary interest is in writing stories set in the English speaking world, based on ease of research, general affinity, the widest market and availability of resources. Developments follow the drivers. As a general rule: Germany is unified, larger and growing more powerful by the day; France remains a global power in the mid 1960s; Austria-Hungary exists and is developing well; Italy is prospering and not going to experience the Years of Lead; Spain is a parliamentary democracy under a constitutional monarchy that didn't have a disastrous past century; Scandinavia is advanced and powerful; Yugoslavia is unified and democratic; Belgium and the Netherlands are pursuing ever-closer union whilst still playing a broader role; Japan is prospering and not under quite the same restrictions of @; Korea is unified, as is India; Persia is modernising and under different management; Greece is completely different; Mexico is rather more powerful across the board; Argentina hasn't fallen into a marked decline; Canada is a bona fide great power in its own right; the Soviet Union isn't entering a period of Brezhnevian stagnation; and the United States is richer, more powerful and not hit by the twin issues of civil rights and opposition to Vietnam in quite the same way. It is not simply a matter of Britain being ahead whilst the rest of the world sips paint, which is slightly what a 'wank' of any kind implies As for conservatism, there are two factors at play there. Firstly, the era of 1945-1960 was certainly much more socially conservative than today in Britain, the USA, Australia and many, many other places; much of what I've written and wrought simply comes from the time. Secondly, there is an extra edge of social conservatism driven by comparatively greater religiosity, general popular culture reaction to 50+ years of war and crisis, certain events and circumstances driving a different reaction to communism and associated beliefs.
My personal opinion on gun size and capital ships is that ~20" is probably the practical limit and also that they would be eclipsed as OTL by carriers, land based air and subs.
Yes there are a number of places doing a lot better than OTL but Britain and its 'empire' is probably the biggest winner in terms of economic and political strength compared to our world. Not that I'm complaining as I would love to see a more powerful and successful Britain but especially since 1979 we're turned down a very dark and destructive dead end despite having seen such policies fail - at least for the country and its people - before.
Your world is a lot more conservative and collectivist than OTL in the early/mid 60s. Things like the continuation of conscription and the lack of any cultural diversity in Britain [and elsewhere], the maintenance of old customs of social priviledges, the expansion of monarchies for instance. Furthermore I suspect your expecting that to continue for quite a while.
I'm not saying I'm not enjoying your work but I do think that some things are unrealistic in that they would be unlikely to occur.
Steve
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Post by simon darkshade on Nov 1, 2020 17:23:13 GMT
Steve,
1.) 20” is the practical limit for Earth and @, most certainly. However, Dark Earth isn’t it. The extra size comes from the combination of heavier armour to penetrate + firing a 5200-6000lb shell at the most optimum velocity to that end. It comes from a very different background that stimulates development of longer range guns and related technology. This is in addition to arcanely enhanced machinery allowing a greater rate of fire than could be achieved through ordinary means. The other factor at play is what is the largest sized hull that can be built and serviced in the various docks and ports of the great powers. Once that is in place, it dictates what the largest practical gun size would be.
2.) As to the eclipse of the battleship:
Carriers: We are seeing that in this thread so far, but not quite in the same pronounced manner. A battleship in port would be very vulnerable, but at sea, it stands a better chance, to some extent. So far, they have proved survivable when concentrated together, accompanied by cruiser and destroyer screens and covered by their own carrier based fighter cover. By virtue of their number of AA guns and directors, battleships make for ideal carrier AA escorts + heavy cover/escorts. The largest bombs carried by CV aircraft as of early 1943 are 2000lb. Enough of those when combined with torpedoes could sink a modern super battleship, but the only three navies with substantial carrier fleets are in the Pacific.
Land based air: As seen off Norway, in the Med and in the Pacific, carrier task forces can take on land based air forces under certain circumstances, particularly when they can overwhelm them with numbers. The major battleship navies are the major carrier navies as well.
Submarines: They would need to be positioned very well and be lucky against fast ships moving with escorts during WW2. Postwar, the threat is pronounced and leads to steps and measures to counter subs, including the counter torpedo.
What keeps battleships in general service is the combination of opposing battleship fleets; nuclear shells; AA weapons and guided missiles; space for flagship operations; advances in armour; operating as nuclear weapons platforms; utility in “Cold War” missions; the presence of certain creatures and other threats; and sheer organisational inertia.
3.) The British Empire seems to be the largest winner compared to 1966 in @, but decent arguments can be made for Austria-Hungary, China, India and Argentina when the full combination of economics + industry + military + stability + internal politics + long term trends is assessed. British power is declining comparatively in a number of measures compared to the USA, USSR and China, but not quite in the same manner as @. Certainly the biggest winners since 1945 have not been Britain.
4.) Yes and no.
A.) At this time, conscription was still the general rule across most of the Western world, with Britain and Canada being the exceptions. The drivers for continued National Service are certainly present, so it isn’t a forced consequence of conservatism, but simply a coterminous circumstance.
B.) Even though the 1950s had seen the first waves of migration to Britain and Western Europe, they were still overwhelmingly lacking in cultural diversity as of 1966. Here is something on the matter from 2017:
“Prior to the Second World War, there was a relatively small portion of the British population that was non-White, including Indians/lascars, Chinese, Yemenis and West Indians. This began to increase from the late 1940s, with the famed Empire Windrush being the first major ship bringing immigrants from the West Indies. Throughout the 1950s, the Black population increased through migration, with the latter increasing from ~15,000 in 1951 to ~172,000 in 1961 and ~304,000 in 1971. This occurred for a number of reasons and in several phases, but broadly due to labour shortages post WW2 and movement from the Commonwealth under the British Nationality Act of 1948. This has increased over the subsequent several generations to the levels of the 2011 Census ~ 1 million Afro-Caribbean people.
The Asian population has something of a similar history, growing from a few tens of thousands prior to 1950 to the much higher levels of today on the back of several waves of migration - the initial postwar movement of the late 40s, the late 50s and 60s migration wave from the Punjab, especially to the Midlands and Lancashire and to London for the NHS and then the East African Asians and Bangladeshis in the 70s.
In Dark Earth as of 1960, there wasn't an immediate postwar labour shortage of the same urgency, but there was some migration. The big change comes in the 1950s, when there was a combination of different nationality laws pushed by sections of the Conservative Party and the Nationals and Imperialists (in part motivated by the stronger Red Scare in Britain at the time) and better economic conditions in Britain, India and the West Indies; in the latter case, there is a fair bit more development in the Caribbean.
This has resulted in a general reduction in overall migration from some Commonwealth and Empire countries to Britain, so that the 1960 population is more along the lines of ~40,000 Afro-Caribbean and ~20,000 Indian, rather than ~170,000 and ~80,000. These numbers will continue to slowly grow during the 1960s. In terms of percentages, it is 0.1% in Dark Earth compared to 0.4% on Earth.”
C.) I’m not sure exactly what social privileges/customs have been maintained beyond the measure of realism, so you might need to expand upon this.
D.) There hasn’t been an expansion of monarchism so much as a continuation of it for very straightforward and mundane reasons in the late 19th century-post WW1. There are some other aspects of the role of monarchs that haven’t quite been touched upon yet, specifically related to some more of the fantastical elements.
As said, virtually all of the features occur for detailed reasons, so I’m quite willing to explain the context of realism, particularly given that you represent half of my active audience.
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oscssw
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Post by oscssw on Nov 1, 2020 19:03:39 GMT
Simon has a huge background for his DE universe, which is vastly different from ours including many different races, most from fantasy but also Martians and Venusian. Earth has a couple of smaller moons as well as Luna and the Earth itself is 50% larger than ours. Which means countries are ~2.25 larger in surface areas, enabling larger populations and industrial production. Plus its a lot longer between countries and there are some additional islands as well as historical Atlantis and Mu although both of those have been lost. Personally I think the 24" guns are OTT but it's Simon's world. If you have a few hundred hours free have a read through what he's written already. Its definitely a Brit-wank and a more conservative world than I would be happy with but also very interesting how much he's put together.
Steve
No offense to Simon but I'll be bowing out of this topic after this post. I never had much use or liking for large warships. My own experience was they were far too much like the Army for my liking. I have served aboard both a cruiser (18 months under a certifiable, sun downing SOB) and a Bird Farm (30 miserable days). Give me a FFG, FF or PB any day. But that's just me. I'm funny that way.
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Post by simon darkshade on Nov 2, 2020 0:30:17 GMT
That is fine; it is just a fictional in-universe history that would stretch out to 1964 or so.
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Post by simon darkshade on Nov 2, 2020 13:08:28 GMT
Next 1943 snippet:
"The new year would see the arrival of new Fleet Air Arm aircraft that would provides substantial leap forward in capability. The Supermarine Eagle Mark X combined an increased rate of climb with improved protection and its already strong armament. These would all yield greater combat effectiveness when combined with new aerial combat tactics that emphasised superior speed and climb over dogfighting with the agile Japanese Zeroes. Its replacement was projected as coming in the form of the high performance Supermarine Type 396, which had been under development since April 1942, but that fighter would not see service until 1944. This would represent a distinct jump in capability from the Eagle in speed, range and general performance, although there was significant interest in potential acquisition of the Boeing long range naval fighter under development. However, just as in the United States, there was significant interest by the Admiralty in the employment of the new jet powered fighters, which offered a significant jump in speed, climb rate and altitude. Whilst the Mark X offered a noticeable improvement over previous marks of the Supermarine Eagle, the same could not be said about the Hawker Firefly Mark V. Indeed, the development limits of the basic airframe had been reached well prior to 1943 and its employment as a strike fighter and fighter-bomber was increasingly proving to be the weak point in the Fleet Air Arm's arsenal. Extensive consideration had been given to the acquisition of the new American Vought Corsair fighter-bomber and over 500 were ordered through Lend Lease, but this was seen as a temporary measure whilst a long awaited British fighter-bomber could be completed. The navalised adaption of the Hawker Fury light fighter had been selected the putative replacement for the Firefly, flying for the time on May 29th 1942, paving the way for further testing and development through to its introduction in November 1943. The Sea Fury was an exceptionally manoeuvrable fighter-bomber with a very high rate of climb and a top speed of more than 470 mph, both of which allowed it to duel the Zero on equal terms.
Development of a replacement torpedo bomber for the redoubtable Fairey Swordfish had been underway since 1940, based around a design for an enlarged aircraft powered by the powerful Bristol Centaurus engine. It took its first flight in March 1941, but subsequent development was troubled by technical issues and gremlins. Initial production of the new engine was problematic, delaying entry into service throughout the whole of 1942, but full scale production began by the end of that year, allowing the first Spearfish to reach the support facilities of Grand Fleet in January. Extensive testing and training by operational conversion units over the first half of the year saw the gradual replacement of the Swordfish in frontline FAA squadrons as Admiral Cunningham prepared for Operation Provident, the invasion of Indochina. Accompanying the Spearfish into service was the Blackburn Firedrake, a multi-purpose attack plane that would fill the role of the dive bomber; the advent of air-to-ground rockets and rocket bombs meant that precision attack no longer required the tactics of a steep dive. The Firedrake had a slightly less troublesome development process than the Spearfish, although its maneuverability would remain a problem throughout much of its service life. Production had begun in October 1942, allowing initial entry into operational squadrons by the second quarter of 1943. Like the Spearfish, it was armed with four wing-mounted 25mm guns, but its primary weapons would be the 3" rocket, the 1000lb semi armour-piercing bomb and the new 2500lb armour piercing bomb. Meanwhile, development and testing of the de Havilland Sea Mosquito continued in Britain and Canada with great urgency; this type was seen as providing an unparalleled strike capacity once the large Malta class carriers entered service in 1944 and 1945."
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Post by simon darkshade on Jul 22, 2021 14:01:14 GMT
It's been a while.
Battle of the Atlantic The year had begun with the Allies holding a firm upper hand in the Battle of the Atlantic as escort vessels, aircraft and the sheer scale and power of American production overwhelmed the Kriegsmarine's UBootwaffe. The North American coast and the immediate vicinity of the Western Approaches were increasingly safe from the predations of the submarine threat due to the weight of land-based airpower, shifting the primary battle zone to Mid Atlantic and northern waters. Even in these areas, the U-Boats faced concentrated opposition from Allied navies that deployed ever-deadlier weapons systems. 1942 had seen the United States gird its loins and build up the means of production and now the great weight of their industrial might and manpower came to bear. America's shipyards would turn out over 2500 merchant ships of all types during the year of a total of over 18 million tons; this replaced all the tonnage lost in the war thus far to German U-Boats, making the calculus of victory stark and clear. Nevertheless, the menace beneath the waves remained a dangerous dagger across the lifeline of the Allied cause.
As such, the Battle of the Atlantic continued to rank among the very foremost of Allied priorities of production, technology and strategic focus and one major aspect of this was its first call on increasing numbers of escort carriers fielded by the United States and Royal Navies. The Allied Atlantic Convoy Conference of December 1942 had reached agreement on a goal of sixteen mobile Support Groups, or Hunter-Killer Groups in American parlance, based around an escort carrier for operations in the North Atlantic, half supplied by the RN and RCN and half supplied by the USN. These were to strike out in aggressive operations against German U-Boats rather than simply confine themselves to defensive convoy escort and were equipped with newer, faster escort carriers, allowing the older construction and converted vessels to provide close escort to the merchant convoys transiting the North Atlantic. The force goal was reached by the end of the year, but for the crucial first months, the USN provided the majority of the hunter-killer force.
In the convoy battles of HX-254 and SC-179 in March, four German wolfpacks attacked relentlessly over several days, barely being repelled by the strong escort and aircraft operating from two British escort carriers with the convoys. The attackers soon turned into prey for the Allied trap, as three USN hunter-killer groups struck from the south and two RN support groups hammered in from the north, along with American Boeing Sea Rangers out of Greenland providing a constant aerial umbrella. The loss of 11 U-Boats bloodied the nose of the U-Bootwaffe, but did not break their threat entirely. That would seemingly come in April, when the cumulative attrition inflicted by the Allies cost the Kriegsmarine 56 U-Boats, 8 of which were sunk by RN escort carriers. Each major convoy was now covered by at least a pair of escort carriers in their voyage across the North Atlantic, along with a stronger surface escort than ever before. In conjunction with the constant coverage provided by the airships and maritime patrol bombers above, these measures reduced losses to some of the lowest levels since the Fall of France.
At the very moment when victory over the submarine menace seemed within the grasp of the Allies, a new and terrible threat entered the equation - the Type XXI ‘Electroboot’. These were boats optimised for submerged operations, carrying large amounts of batteries and recharging whilst beneath the surface through their ‘schnorkels’. Their debut had been anticipated by Allied intelligence for some time, but the Battle of Convoy HX-267 on June 7th nevertheless came as a shock. The loss of 21 merchant ships of 196,247 tons and 6 escorts to an attack by five German submarines in a single night in exchange for only one confirmed U-Boat sinking begat a tremendous response by Allied surface, aerial and carrier forces. A hunt which involved 49 surface ships, over 300 aircraft, 4 airships and 5 escort carriers resulted in a successful counterstroke over the next week, as three of the surviving Type XXIs were sunk; the presence of such forces in the operational vicinity of the convoy battle has been ascribed to both sheer good fortune and the growing tidal wave of mass Allied shipbuilding. The Type XXIs would smash several more convoys over the summer of 1943, but their ability to reach the crucial waters of decision in the Mid Atlantic was increasingly hampered by the Anglo-American strategic bombing campaign, the massive mining efforts and growing patrols of Royal Navy submarines around the U-Boat bases in France and the deployment of RN escort carriers on the blockade line in the Bay of Biscay.
The final turn of the tide in the war's longest and bloodiest battle came in August, when the largest 'ship' in the world entered the fray. Through the efforts of Canadian industry and workers, nothing short of a modern miracle of production had occurred, as HMS Habakkuk was commissioned in Saint John's on August 4th. Construction had begun in November 1942 and, through the application of new industrial design spells and ice magic, the massive pykrete ship was completed and fitted out by the end of June. Even as it prepared for deployment in top secret in an sealed Newfoundland naval base, there were many voices on both sides of the Atlantic who derided the ship as ludicrous, a colossal waste of resources and entirely unworkable. After it put to sea for the first time, it was to prove them both right and wrong. To keep the bergship cold enough to remain solid for a protracted period of time, an entirely new freezing solution had been developed by Canadian alchemists and four wizards assigned to the sole duty of casting ice magics over different portions of the hull, which all raised the expense of the vessel to over £50 million, whilst Habbakuk's engines could only propel her forward at 2.5 knots, rather than her design speed of 8 knots. Forward she crept into the middle of the North Atlantic until she reached her destination on September 15th and halted, creating a floating airfield and shipping base some 1500 miles out in the ocean. Habakkuk was to prove valuable in this role of an artificial island, allowing not only her intended deployment of twin and four engine patrol bombers, but the support and refueling of both dragons and flying boats on the high seas. Furthermore, her presence allowed the growth of a floating armada around her, extending the range and operational efficiency of anti-submarine vessels and escorts. Aircraft operating from Habakkuk were responsible for the sinking of 38 German U-Boats by the end of the war, yet she was never quite considered to be a true aircraft carrier.
Victory in the Battle of the Atlantic was one of the foremost triumphs of the Allies in the entirety of the Second World War, coming through a combination of courage, daring, ingenuity, technological supremacy, overwhelming industrial might and successful strategy. By November 1943, the wolfpacks of the U-Boatwaffe had been withdrawn from the North Atlantic, as Grand Admiral Donitz's gambit failed in the face of the Allied navies. He had begun the battle aiming to overwhelm Britain in a tonnage war, yet in the end, it was his submarines which were overwhelmed by tonnage - the tonnage of Allied merchant shipbuilding and the tonnage of escorts churned out by the naval shipyards of Britain and the New World. German U-Boats would continue to strike out into the Atlantic in 1944 and 1945, but their efforts were far less coordinated and greatly constrained, not least of which by the Allied invasion of France. The escort carrier had made significant contributions to the defence of the convoys in 1941 and 1942 and in 1943, they formed part of a formidable team that took the battle to the U-Boats and won. No single weapon nor no single effort was responsible for winning the Battle of the Atlantic, but each played a valuable and significant part in their own right.
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Post by simon darkshade on Apr 20, 2022 18:32:28 GMT
The role of the Home Fleet in 1943 was primarily one of training in support of the combat fleets in the Mediterranean and Far East and covering the remnant threat of the Kriegsmarine fleet in being. The requirements of protracted operations necessitated a consistent flow of replacement aircraft and more significantly trained pilots and aircrew to the Fleet Air Arm in other theatres. By the end of 1942, 600 pilots a month were being qualified in carrier operations, but this barely managed to supply the needs of the expanding fleet in a global war and would rise considerably in 1943. After basic training in Canada and the United States, the prospective naval pilots, drawn not just from Britain but also throughout the Empire, would undergo carrier qualifications and training in the Irish Sea and the sea lochs of Scotland onboard the escort carriers Pretoria Castle, Capetown Castle and Durban Castle. These were newly commissioned vessels converted from large fast ocean liners which had brief careers as armed merchant cruisers in 1940, all displacing over 25,000 tons and able to operate up to three dozen aircraft. Even with each of the Castles conducting an average of upwards of two hundred landings per day, it was still considered necessary to supplement them with arcanely augmented mobile floating platforms on Lough Neagh and Strangford Lough for training in night landings and illusorily simulated rough North Atlantic conditions.
This process was followed by operational combat training aboard the Training Squadron in the Irish Sea, a collection of the older carriers in RN service (Furious, Arion, Hawkins and Raleigh) considered no longer fit for frontline sea service save in the most pressing of circumstances. This allowed for novice FAA pilots to gain continuous and extensive flying experience in the Royal Navy’s main frontline carrier aircraft, a process made even more valuable through direct training from combat veterans and aces rotated back home from the Far East and Mediterranean. Once pilots had fully passed through the extensive training process, they would then been given combat experience in the regular strikes on Norway and France that made up the Home Fleet’s other primary mission. This key element in the successful training system resulted in FAA pilots getting at least 500 hours in the air before seeing combat, considerably outclassing their Japanese opponents in Asia.
The frontline strength of the Home Fleet was based on a squadron of four fleet carriers (two RN, Remarkable and Spectacular and two RCN, Aurora and Arcadia) ,at least one escort carrier squadron and between four and six light fleet carriers, the fruits of the large 1939 and 1940 construction programmes beginning to be felt in force this year. This total embarked force of over 800 aircraft was larger than that deployed by the Grand Fleet in the 1940 campaign and demonstrated the ever expanding scale of the war. The shifting tides of war finally meant that the threat to the British Isles had abated and the possibility of a full sortie by the rump German fleet was considered extremely unlikely as they remained decisively outnumbered by RN and Allied ships. Without a significant carrier force, Kriegsmarine forces would be nakedly exposed to airpower throughout their putative deathride across the North Sea and this combination of distance and vulnerability militated against the prospect of such a threat. The return of Courageous and Glorious from the Mediterranean at the end of the year drove the strategic imbalance further against Germany.
Rather than simply remain on watch at Scapa Flow, the Home Fleet was used increasingly aggressively in 1943 against those parts of Nazi-occupied Europe within their range, the first of these being in Southern Norway. The hitherto static front in the centre of Norway began to slowly shift over the year, but the primary targets selected for Royal Naval attention in 1943, apart from the Battle of Andalsnes, were further south than the mountainous narrows of Trondheim - the airfield complexes and U-Boat pens around Bergen, Stavanger and Egersund. There were nine separate major strikes against the German bases between March and August, inflicting substantive damage against the more open airfields and their defences but making comparatively little impact against the gargantuan concrete edifices housing the deadly submersible threats to the lifeblood of the Allied war effort; their elimination would come at the hands of RAF Bomber Command’s heavy Halifaxes and Lancasters with their new Tallboy bombs, as well as the advancing Allied armies of liberation. The relative proximity of the Norwegian coast to the safety of the Shetland Islands allowed a swift flight by carrier strikes under cover of darkness or at low level and the sheer numbers of a full scale multi-carrier strike were able to overwhelm local Luftwaffe defences in a manner not dissimilar to the ‘bomber stream’ over Germany. Whilst the naval operations against Norway, collectively codenamed Operation Scullery, were not intended to be strategically decisive and nor were they. However, they did see the destruction of over 300 German aircraft on the ground and in the air against the cumulative loss of 58 FAA planes, draw Hitler’s attention away from the Mediterranean and blood hundreds of new pilots. Scullery was not without its critics in the Royal Navy, who contended that the nature of the target areas negated to some extent the inherent advantage possessed by carriers at sea - their unpredictable locations and axes of approach.
The second major Home Fleet campaign of 1943 made much more use of this advantage due to its particular geography: the strikes against the Atlantic ports of France, or Operation Termagant. Here, the carrier fleet would be able to slip out of their staging areas on the west coast of Lyonesse and speedily strike at the ports of Britanny in coordination with RAF, RNAS and USAF bomber raids. 10 separate carrier attacks, ranging in size from 250 to 600 aircraft, were launched against Brest, Saint-Nazaire and Lorient from September 4 through November 27, overwhelming their Luftwaffe fighter defences, laying mines, striking Kriegsmarine light surface vessels and attacking the submarine pens with 2500lb rocket bombs and flying torpedoes. Whilst the latter weapons failed to prove the nemesis of the U-Boat lairs, the principles of their design would result in far more substantive results elsewhere. The chief operational lesson from the Termagant strikes was the force multiplication provided by proper coordination of all forces engaged in the broader campaign against the U-Boat bases. The RN carrier strikes successfully wore down the Luftwaffe day fighter defences, allowing better results for the American B-17s and B-24s striking on the same day who in turn permitted the RNAS Stirlings and RAF Lancasters to do greater damage at night with their acoustic mines, blockbusters and Grand Slams. The final two Termagant strikes saw the participation of two USN aircraft carriers and attached to the Home Fleet and the additional firepower provided by their formidable Hellcats, Avengers, Helldivers, Corsairs and Skyraiders would prove the tipping point in the joint campaign. Thus, whilst the de Havilland Mosquitoes of 633 and 642 Squadrons are rightly famous for their destruction of the Keroman Base at Lorient with the new Disney guided bombs on December 24 1943, like many famous Allied successes, it would not have occurred without the hard fought victories won through inter-service and international cooperative effort.
The final role of the Home Fleet’s carrier force was one where there would be much preparation, but in light of its secrecy, there would naturally be no scope for preliminary operations. Their task in the forthcoming and long-awaited invasion of Europe, Operation Overlord would be a key one on the road to victory.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Apr 20, 2022 18:50:57 GMT
The final role of the Home Fleet’s carrier force was one where there would be much preparation, but in light of its secrecy, there would naturally be no scope for preliminary operations. Their task in the forthcoming and long-awaited invasion of Europe, Operation Overlord would be a key one on the road to victory. Why carriers when you have a super carrier called the United Kingdom.
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Post by simon darkshade on Apr 20, 2022 18:53:07 GMT
You’ll find out in 1944. Little hint: It is a matter of being able to do some of the things described here and take advantage of certain geography.
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Post by simon darkshade on Apr 21, 2022 13:31:27 GMT
I’m putting together the Far East, the main theatre of 1943, at present and one of the aspects coming through is the quite different course of the British carrier offensive in SE Asia.
- The USN has its classic approach from the @ Pacific War - mobile manoeuvre in the vast open ocean, cracking through the outer shell of the Japanese Empire and thrusting through at key targets. To me, that is analogous in some ways to mobile warfare/blitzkrieg on land. - The British operate in a completely opposite environment to the Central Pacific, in narrower seas enclosed by substantive enemy land air bases. If it pushes substantially beyond the umbrella provided by RAF airpower and Army land forces on the Malay Peninsula, then it risks getting sucked into a cycle of battles that aren’t to its strengths. The Grand Fleet is a massive asset, but it is the one roll of the dice for Britain and the Empire. Like the @ WW1 fleet, it could not be used willy nilly because of risk - it’s loss could result in the whole Imperial position in Asia being hit for six. - At it’s heart, any fight in SE Asia is a land + air fight moreso than a sea + air fight. The RN is the strongest British/CW/Imperial arm in the area, relatively speaking, but it has to take a supporting role in the theatre. - As such, it isn’t the mobile USN FCTF analogue nor the blitzkrieg one. It is instead analogous to the British Army of the Hundred Days or Monty’s ‘colossal cracks’ in that it is more of an instrument of constant threat and pressure. A hammer compared to a rapier, nay, a long rifle, and a hammer that can’t outrun its anvil. Even with a very large number of carriers operating in multiple full size groups, caution is their watchword. - In 1943, the GF will support the advance from Malaya into Siam, then through Siam to Indochina. That opens up one side of the SCS, which in turn allows them to shift south and hammer the Borneo air bases. However, this only allows the fleet out into a larger littoral sea, the South China Sea. - From there, in 1944/45, they then have to neutralise Hainan, hit Southern Chinese air bases and then properly break out, hitting Formosa just as the USN advance is striking the Philippines; the strikes on China coincide with the Army and Royal Marines liberating Hong Kong. - The 1943 advance is slow and criticised by the politicians who see the far more expansive advances/moves by the USN, but it is controlled by the pace of the land advance rolling back the Japanese. It seems, from a cursory perspective, to not be the same value for money, but this is a fallacy. The strategy, indeed, grand strategy of the RN in the Far East is controlled by its geography. - Their major fleet base is Singapore. To hold that logistical hub, they need to hold Malaya. To hold Malaya, they need to eliminate enemy presence west of the Mekong…in essence, the arc of advance they are following, undoing the Japanese offensive in reverse as it were. - Why not simply turn south and liberate the DEI? That would put the carrier force, the heart of the fleet, into a campaign in confined archipelagic waters were it would face multiple threats from land based air plus submarines. It is also advancing in the wrong way to roll back the enemy and cut them off from Japan. By pushing towards the Formosa-Philippines barrier, the IJN is squeezed out of the entire of SE Asia and deprived of their only significant fleet base in the region (Manila). Furthermore, there is a push up out of Australia into the DEI, but it is a real logistical bugger and a half. - To sum up, they are fighting to win a war, not to win individual battles.
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