lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Apr 8, 2019 15:49:27 GMT
Near Kempen, March 27th, 1915
Sweet sister, Thank you so much for your letter from the 19th, and also for the package that you sent me. The Scottish drink was most welcome and I have shared it with the whole battalion of which I now find myself in command. This war isn’t like others. It’s not a war to be fought with the sabre and waving flags, but rather one of artillery and machine guns. I believed that we had received lessons in this at the first German onslaught, but I have now found that it’s not at all true. After our guns fell silent we moved to engage the enemy, but he is a tenacious foe and many fell gloriously. It must have lasted mere moments but seemed to be an eternity before we were upon the enemy. He was well-secured in his position and delivered lethal fire on us as we advanced. The only way to survive such a hail of fire is to be quick and make contact with the enemy, in the open, death is the only outcome. We took his lines and bested our enemies. That however was not the whole ordeal. Behind this dug line, there was another. At this time, our good major had already given his life, and as we were preparing to rush the next position, the German artillery opened up. Anyone who was left in the open was torn to pieces by the heavy fire, obliging us to remain in place. There was no way forward, and no way back either. Naturally, the Germans came to attack us in turn. We managed to hold him back, but afterwards, I was the only officer left and took command of the battalion. We fortunately managed to establish contact with other units next to ours, but it took until the night before we could make contact with our old positions. They brought up food and orders for the next day’s attacks. Following another barrage, I led my men into a fresh attack and again we carried the enemy position, knowing that it was the full depth of theirs. But it seemed that he hadn’t been idle, and the German had dug another one in the distance. It was then that I managed to contact the brigade to inform them of the remaining strength of the battalion and we were replaced. Your package arrived just in time for us to celebrate our small victories, the four bottles that you sent were enough to give each man who remained a drink. As you know, it is poor form for an officer to drink with his men, but I felt that they deserved it in recognition of their valour. And besides, there weren’t any more officers to share with. But please, never tell Father about this. He would be even more appalled. This engagement has made me truly proud to call myself a Dutchman. We have shown our mettle in battle, and not even all the strength of the German army can shatter our will. We gladly sacrifice our blood for God and our beloved country. I hope that the cowards in The Hague will soon stop their wait and see twaddle and take the step of conscripting the coloureds and bringing them here. We need the men, even if they are of less than perfect character. They still have some of our sacred blood in their veins. How are things for you in England? I pray that you are in good health and that you will be able to help on the path towards our inevitable victory and to put an end to the unnecessary distractions we are now facing overseas. Your big brother, Lieutenant Hendrik Rots, commander 2nd battalion 14th infantry regiment ‘Mechelen’. Another nice update raunchel So there are those in The Hague who are hesitant in conscripting colored troops. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Apr 8, 2019 16:01:19 GMT
That line in itself nearly made me add a LOL to the Like.  Then glad I read your actual update as I had to drastically re-write what I was saying. 
Pride, reserves and also the fear of what happens if their opponents win. Germany especially had very dramatic views of how extreme a policy the winners whoever they were, would take to the losers, with the virtual disappearance of either Germany or France. Plus as you say with the Dutch heartland, although they might be able to fight on from their overseas republics and the Ruhr so close to the front there is relatively little room to give ground.
Without France losing so much of its industrial heartland and population it will be significantly better off and might also be able to supply some food for the Netherlands as opposed to the latter having to depend on imports so in that way the allies in the west will be stronger, although as you say the Russians have had a rougher time and the Austrians a distinctly better one. I thought that Turkey had already joined the war and was asking whether a Gallipoli type campaign would be considered  . However suspect it won't happen in the near term because with the current fighting near the border and the belief that they might win a quick victory the Netherlands won't have any spare men - although I suppose they might try a naval solution. Bulgaria joining the war almost certainly dooms Serbia very quickly as they have a long and markedly less mountainous common border. I was a bit surprised it happened this soon as I thought they might wait until they survive the current Franco-Dutch offensive, especially if the latter are talking up their chances of success. Also by attacking the Kurils I presume it is, I strongly suspect that Russian concerns aren't high on the Dutch list of importance at the moment, especially if they think they can win on their own.
One possible butterfly, since Enva Pasha can't launch a disastrous winter attack that gets his army slaughtered, is that the Turks may not scapegoat the Armenians although I fear the situation is set up for some sort of slaughter at some stage. 
Greece might join the allies but it would be difficult. Depending on your sources the king is either pro-German or strongly in favour of continued neutrality. The PM was pro-British [or at least willing to attack the Ottomans] but it took until 1917 and the deposition of the king to bring a divided Greece into the allied camp. Which then led to a sizeable force being stuck in Thessaloniki until the last stages of the war. They won't join the CPs because they hate the Turks so much and are very vulnerable to naval power, which between the Italians and French and any Dutch task force in the region the allies are likely to be dominant. Although there might be a bribe in terms of eastern Crete, especially since the PM is from Crete but would the Dutch give it up? Also the Dutch other than Crete and the Balerics don't seem to have any bases in the Med and with Britain in Egypt still the only land front between the western allies and Turkey is the Dutch possession of much of Yemen.
The other neutral power in the Balkans is Romania, which finally went for the allies as they wanted Transylvania but not before mid-1917 and they got quickly stomped by the Germans.
I'm a bit surprised that if the Russians back-stab Japan its for the Kurils rather than Manchuria and Korea, although S Sakhalin might be what their taken as that was something that was Russian before the war? Suspect that the Japanese will be getting back to the Dutch negotiators arguing that they must be able to retain more ground forces and possibly some naval ones as well to defend its interests in the region against further Russian attacks. Britain will be angry as in a very unstable world and with the clear hostility of the Dutch mega-state Japan is its only ally.
I suspect it won't be long before we see the start of a German sub campaign and also the appearance of chemical weapons. Although the Germans have to be more careful about attacking neutral shipping with Britain being in the neutral camp, plus possibly seeking to trade with them to get around the allied blockade. Suspect Britain is watching as closely as it can to pick up information about the nature of modern warfare, especially at sea and wondering what to do.
Steve
France indeed is a lot stronger here, but at the same time, they still have some of the same issues that lead to them using and losing massive amounts of men and material. They however don't have to deal with a large part of their country being occupied which removes the need for constant attacks to liberate their sacred soil. Of course, such fighting is taking place to the south, but it's not nearly as bad as in Northern France and it also isn't horrifyingly close to Paris. Many of the Dutch cities however are within reach of the Germans if they manage to force a breakthrough. The Russians indeed are attacking the Kurils and are also making some movements to restore their control over parts of China and Korea. Those however are complicated by the presence of Dutch forces. And, of course, some Dutch politicians are feeling very awkward at not having tried landings themselves to prevent Russia from doing something like this. OTL Russia wasn't presented with opportunities like this, but it seemed to me that Nicky and a few of his advisers might very well try, if only to shore up morale after the beatings they've taken in the West. Greece will indeed be hard to get into the war on either side. They'll never support the Central Powers because Turkey is with them, but on the other hand, the Dutch having half of Crete (where the PM is from) is a massive complication as well. The Dutch would rather not give up too many of their bases, they feel like they really need them to control the Med. Of course, they can lock down Suez from Puntland and Yemen, but still. They really need the ability to threaten Italy and Southern France to maintain their position (at least, that's how some of the more imperialist politicians see it). And I like to think that I'm succeeding in making this an actual world war, with more than just minor skirmishes on many continents (like the Americas and Asia).
Raunchel
Thinking of a few more points having a closer look.
a) I see that Johan is also considering trying to force the Baltic. That might seem more likely to him as its near the prime Dutch naval bases and might force the German fleet to come out and fight. However its not going to be easy as the narrows can probably be fairly easily be mined and also once a force is in the Baltic it must be maintained there. Also its likely to further anger Britain as it will disrupt trade and its likely to deeply upset the Danes and Swedes who value their neutrality.
b) If those squadrons are at sea, pretty much a semi-close blockade, then their vulnerable both to sudden strikes by the full HSF and also attrition by subs and mines so this frankly sounds like a bad idea to me. There was a very good reason why Britain decided not to perform the traditional close blockade in OTL and while the Dutch bases are a lot closer to Germany this could be costly for the Dutch fleet.
c) Is that the Dutch are attacking in the south i.e. of the TTL Netherlands or that the main attack is being carried by the French in the south of the combined front? I ask because I think the plan was for the two to attack on the flanks, to try and tie up German reserves then have a big attack in the centre or is this now this main attack? If so I suspect Johan is correct to mistrust the general's talk of an impending decisive breakthrough. Especially against a well led and equipped German army defending its homeland. At this point the French were still poorly equipped in terms of artillery and doctrine especially to break defensive lines and Britain was woefully so and it sounds from what's been said like the TTL Dutch will be no better.
Basically as OTL I don't think there is a quick and cheap way of winning a decisive victory, although no doubt both sides will come up with new ideas. However agree with you its going to be a long and very bloody slog.
Steve
Yes, the Baltics plan has lots and lots of issues. Furthermore, forcing the Sound means exposing the Dutch fleet, also to the British who will know that the Dutch will have to come back through it and force an engagement with an already battered fleet. The Dutch are willing to endure bloody naval campaigns, but they won't risk the battlefleet for anything short of total victory. It's a bit like with the Grand Fleet, if it's lost, the war is lost. The battle squadrons are at a greater distance, with light units basically enforcing the blockade en forming a screen. This is leading to some engagements, but the Germans are wary because Willie would rather not lose his fleet to gambles (the same issue their suffered OTL). The subs however are quite a problem. There are several attacks taking place. The first was in the North of the Netherlands, going deeper into East Frisia and basically threatening Wilhelmshafen and the like. The French followed with an offensive in France, seemingly aimed at driving back the Germans. After those two, the Dutch and French launched another attack around Venlo, where Hendrik has been part of one of the first assaults. Here, the Dutch are really learning what modern trench warfare means and horrendous casualties are being suffered for not all that much ground. The Germans are also suffering horribly of course, but they have amazing logistics so close to cities like Duisburg and Düsseldorf. Raunchel Unfortunately it appears I was wrong on one thing, the chance of avoiding the Armenian genocide. Reading todays "day in hostory" it mentions the assassination of Talaat_Pasha, who seems to have been the main planner of the murders and apparently was planning such a slaughter for some years beforehand. As such, unless there's a sudden collapse of the Turkey state it sounds like it would be largely unavoidable. 
Steve
That really is one of the more unfortunate things. Of course, there are plenty of massacres and the like taking place, but the Armenian Genocide is horrible even by the standards of the time.
Raunchel
Depending on how many men they have lost so far the French might have had some of the extravagant belief in the attack with bare steel knocked out of them. If not things are going to go very badly for them as they are going against the strongest parts of the German defences. Especially if their commanders think there is a chance of a decisive early victory they will push their men hard and also there will be the desire to 'restore' the lost provinces of Alsace-Lorraine.
Of course OTL Russia and Japan ended up as defacto allies, due to being on the same side as Britain. TTL their still bitter rivals but the Russians could find this a costly distraction. Not so much in terms of manpower and material but because it will lower their value in terms of how reliable their allies see them to be and also the impact in relations with Britain.
Which just made me think of one other point. OTL Britain very much funded the allied war effort at least until ~1917 with huge loans to Russia especially for all sorts of materials. TTL this won't be happening and with the Dutch invading the US that won't be supplying any material to the allies either so there could be the question of how their funding the conflict? Probably war loans will suffice for the moment and with France having avoided the OTL early losses that will help. However Russia might struggle, especially if/when the Ottomans join the war and the straits are closed. Further worsened by uncertainty in the Far East.
The problem for the Dutch is that their mentality seems to be at least as bad as the OTL Germans. That they consider their need to be able to threaten everybody, including [albeit possibly short term] allies and to control the Med, where they have relatively few actual interests is likely to cause concern in other powers, most especially probably both Paris and Rome. Don't know what the situation was in their world but the obvious answer might be to agree to cede their part of Crete to Greece but maintain a basing right either there or possibly in another Greek island. That gives them a base, although one that could be isolated in turn, as could Crete currently, especially if there was tensions with Britain or France after the current war ends.
Despite the fighting in N America and what does seem to be largely over in E Asia, its going to be overwhelmingly a war centred on Europe because other than the US and Japan, the latter now currently out of it that's where the home countries and vital interests of the major players are. However N America at least will mean there's going to be a major area of conflict outside Europe, especially if/when the US gets its act together.
Unless they really upset London, which they might if they trampled too much on the Baltic neutrals or affected British interest elsewhere I suspect that wouldn't be a trigger for a British dow. However the Dutch might not realise that. However simply forcing the Baltic straits could well be costly and then seeking to keep them open would be a lot more difficult especially as it likely to force a dispersal of the battle fleet and with the Germans having the Kiel canal and the operations of all hostile powers in terms of mines and subs especially those units in the Baltic are likely to suffer continued losses.
I wonder what is happening with trade with the Scandinavian powers, and what if any restrictions the Dutch and their allies are putting on them. OTL the allies led by Britain and supported by the US joined the war, sought to restrict imports to those powers [and the neutral Dutch] to roughly their peacetime level to prevent items being imported to them then being sold on to Germany and Austria. This caused a lot of resentment among the neutral, especially the US but it was still isolationist and some distance away. TTL any policy like that will also cause problems with a neutral Britain and its a lot closer and more of a trading nation so there is another source of tension there. Not going to be popular in Britain if Dutch and allied ships are interfering with British trade with say Norway and Sweden, especially as there could well be disputes over what are valid materials to embargo.
There is going to be a long wearing exercise in terms of the closer blockade the Dutch are doing. The Germans might try and sortie with their BCs to hit the lighter blockading units, especially if the latter get close to somewhere with German coastal defences - still can't believe those 144 x12" guns at Heligoland!. This could be risky however if the Dutch BCs manage to catch them but they also need to be concerned about being lured into sub lines or minefields.
Going to be very expensive on the front. Especially for the allies as their doing the attacking but not going to be good for the Germans either.
Unfortunately, unless the CPs collapse very quickly or at least the Russians do better than they did in E Anatolia, where they did have some substantial successes I can't see the future being good at all for the Armenians. Or the other Christian groups in the Ottoman empire as later there were large scale massacres of the Assyrian Christians and other such groups.
Anyway good to see this back. Even if its an even bloodier war than OTL.
Steve
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Apr 8, 2019 16:02:59 GMT
Near Kempen, March 27th, 1915
Sweet sister, Thank you so much for your letter from the 19th, and also for the package that you sent me. The Scottish drink was most welcome and I have shared it with the whole battalion of which I now find myself in command. This war isn’t like others. It’s not a war to be fought with the sabre and waving flags, but rather one of artillery and machine guns. I believed that we had received lessons in this at the first German onslaught, but I have now found that it’s not at all true. After our guns fell silent we moved to engage the enemy, but he is a tenacious foe and many fell gloriously. It must have lasted mere moments but seemed to be an eternity before we were upon the enemy. He was well-secured in his position and delivered lethal fire on us as we advanced. The only way to survive such a hail of fire is to be quick and make contact with the enemy, in the open, death is the only outcome. We took his lines and bested our enemies. That however was not the whole ordeal. Behind this dug line, there was another. At this time, our good major had already given his life, and as we were preparing to rush the next position, the German artillery opened up. Anyone who was left in the open was torn to pieces by the heavy fire, obliging us to remain in place. There was no way forward, and no way back either. Naturally, the Germans came to attack us in turn. We managed to hold him back, but afterwards, I was the only officer left and took command of the battalion. We fortunately managed to establish contact with other units next to ours, but it took until the night before we could make contact with our old positions. They brought up food and orders for the next day’s attacks. Following another barrage, I led my men into a fresh attack and again we carried the enemy position, knowing that it was the full depth of theirs. But it seemed that he hadn’t been idle, and the German had dug another one in the distance. It was then that I managed to contact the brigade to inform them of the remaining strength of the battalion and we were replaced. Your package arrived just in time for us to celebrate our small victories, the four bottles that you sent were enough to give each man who remained a drink. As you know, it is poor form for an officer to drink with his men, but I felt that they deserved it in recognition of their valour. And besides, there weren’t any more officers to share with. But please, never tell Father about this. He would be even more appalled. This engagement has made me truly proud to call myself a Dutchman. We have shown our mettle in battle, and not even all the strength of the German army can shatter our will. We gladly sacrifice our blood for God and our beloved country. I hope that the cowards in The Hague will soon stop their wait and see twaddle and take the step of conscripting the coloureds and bringing them here. We need the men, even if they are of less than perfect character. They still have some of our sacred blood in their veins. How are things for you in England? I pray that you are in good health and that you will be able to help on the path towards our inevitable victory and to put an end to the unnecessary distractions we are now facing overseas. Your big brother, Lieutenant Hendrik Rots, commander 2nd battalion 14th infantry regiment ‘Mechelen’. Another nice update raunchel So there are those in The Hague who are hesitant in conscripting colored troops.
No doubt. Both because its something new and because some of them will realise there will be costs. To a degree it accepts the importance of the coloured troops and populations as a whole and that will mean they will want better treatment while reactionaries will dislike the general idea at all.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Apr 9, 2019 14:03:14 GMT
Raunchel
Been thinking about some implications of Turkey joining the CPs and the impact, especially possibly with regards to Britain.
a) Technically Turkey is better off than OTL as the Dutch have less of a presence, both naval and militarily than Britain had OTL. British possession/domination of Cyprus, Egypt and the Persian Gulf along with a stonking great army in India gave it bases near the empire and political and economic interests to defend, especially the Persian oilfields and the Suez Canal. Working from their African and possibly Indonesian colonies the Dutch can support their bases in the Yemen area but by land the only advance really open to them is up the western coastline of Arabia, which will mean advancing on Mecca and Medina and I suspect even those Dutch leaders will think carefully before doing that. OTL the Ottoman sultans ordered a jihad against the EPs but it had relatively little impact as it was largely seen as a political action and the British and French generally treated their Muslim subjects fairly well. However if Dutch forces, even overwhelmingly Muslim colonial troops, are fighting their way into the two most holy sites in Islam its likely to be controversal to put it mildly. Both for the Muslims in the Ottoman empire and those under Dutch rule - which unless their been very good/forceful at converting people will probably mean a large proportion if not the majority in the Indonesian region and Yemen and Somalia.
The alternative for the Dutch in attacking the Ottomans would be some sort of amphibious assaults, say on the straits or the other area often suggested is the Cilicia region. However the Dutch have fewer bases in the region and their fleet is tied up in Europe while their marines, the best forces for such operations seem to have been badly mauled by the fighting against Germany. Plus while their thinking that the fighting on the western front is important to try and safeguard their homeland and to win a quick decisive victory their probably even less likely than the British OTL in getting forces for an offensive outside the western front. Russian actions in the Pacific is probably not helping either as the Dutch are likely to be less willing to seek to help them out. Also being still newcomers to this world the Dutch have less knowledge of their new neighbours and what motivates them.
However still likely that some sort of amphibious attack may be tried at some point but its probably less likely to succeed than the OTL Gallipoli campaign. At least unless its markedly better run and given the greater strength likely to be available to the Turks without active fronts in Egypt and Iraq is unlikely to make a major difference.
b) The fact that Britain isn't [yet anyway] at war, means that the Turks may seek to get their two battleships back as there probably will be less need for them by the RN. However its going to be uncertain about offending not just the Dutch but their allies [and the former British ones] France and Russia by arming an opponent. Plus there is the question of how the Turks would pick them up as I can't see two BBs sailing from Britain with Turkish crews and not getting intercepted. As such it might be that Britain could either offer "well come and pick them up" or point out that since their delivery would be problematic possibly still buy them, giving the Turks funds for items they might now find more urgent.
c) Possibly more important would be what happens with use of the Suez canal? Not sure of the details but Britain should have the capacity to ban passage for the warships of belligerent powers. It may or may not have done this already, although possibly might do so in response to Russian actions against Japan. It might also seek to ban passage of war materials - probably for all belligerents rather than selecting one side. However both those approaches would hurt the allies more than the CPs. The question with either step is whether any of them would do anything in response. I don't think the French or Russians would but given their belligerence and hostility towards Britain/England the Dutch might at least consider it. It would be a risky step for Britain as if the allies win then their likely to be deeply unpopular but its something that might be considered, especially as a swipe as the Dutch.
One other option might be the Dutch seeking to restrict British trade passed Aden but again that's likely to be explosive politically.
d) Technically both Egypt and Cyprus are still parts of the Ottoman empire, Britain arranging the payment of a small tribune for each. OTL this ended when the Ottomans joined WWI against Britain. Not a significant factor in itself however so doubt this would be an issue.
Anyway a few additional possible factors to think about.
I also suspect that with a full scale world war going on literally on their doorsteps the Liberal government won't be willing/able to cut back on naval spending especially and possibly also military spending. Think the additional QE and R class ships are likely to be at least laid down and you might see a new approach to Canada to ask it to fund three battleships, which might succeed although they might be more interested in boosting their army given what's happening to their south.
Steve
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Then glad I read your actual update as I had to drastically re-write what I was saying. 
. However suspect it won't happen in the near term because with the current fighting near the border and the belief that they might win a quick victory the Netherlands won't have any spare men - although I suppose they might try a naval solution. Bulgaria joining the war almost certainly dooms Serbia very quickly as they have a long and markedly less mountainous common border. I was a bit surprised it happened this soon as I thought they might wait until they survive the current Franco-Dutch offensive, especially if the latter are talking up their chances of success. Also by attacking the Kurils I presume it is, I strongly suspect that Russian concerns aren't high on the Dutch list of importance at the moment, especially if they think they can win on their own.
