Red Dawn 20+ AH.com archive

From page 92

Pyro

Hey Matt, I just uncovered something that might interest you. As I mentioned earlier, I was recently hired as an archivist for the WWIII Memorial Museum and part of my duties are to catalog relics and memoirs. Well I remember how you mentioned that a friend of yours was shot down over Alberta, and a beaten coil-bound notebook fell into my hands a few days ago. It details the events of a farmer from about ten kilometers east of Strathmore who discovered a wounded pilot in his field, and how he and his two teenage sons risked their lives to smuggle him across the border. From what I read, they had a few close calls with the Soviet patrols but they succeeded. Does this story ring any bells?

TheMann

Pyro, that might be me, too. My best friend was an A-7 pilot who was hit by a SAM over Alberta and crashed, a paraplegic as a result, and locals also ran him back to friendly lines.

Matt Wiser

I did have a friend who punched out over Alberta...Capt. Kory Shaffer: he was in my OCS class. Kory was an F-16 driver (50th TFW redeployed from the UK to CONUS), and he was beat up so bad by the ejection, that when he got back to friendly lines they told him he'd never fly an ejection-seat equipped plane again. Kory drives AC-130s for a living now. An ex-Viper driver now flying gunships, nice....

Hey Mann: glad to see your friend got his revenge. And between the B-1s and the naval gunfire, Vera Cruz had some major "urban renewal" done. As for MiGs, well, we haven't seen any since Day 3 of this fracas. Either they've been shot down, destroyed on the ground, or are now too scared to come up. Kara's royally pissed: she's only got one so far; Kelly Ann has one-the ace-maker, I've got two, and some Viper driver with the 352nd has three: Two MiG-21s and an Su-7 ground-attack bird. You guys see any of the locals down there shooting at each other? Word's goin' round that the...unpleasantness in Mexico City is spreading. This PDLP and the Government are going all-out now.

Any others on the "wanted" list get picked up? The Marines on the east coast north of Tampico were looking for some guy who was wanted for not only his radio and "American Liberation Television" activities, but was also involved in some public executions in Texas and Arkansas-folks being shot for "Offenses Against the Occupation Authorities" and "Counter-Revolutionary Agitation." The creep ran for office on the "Freedom Socialist" ticket back in the late '70s in the Dallas area-my relatives there remember him for claiming the Dallas city council election was rigged to keep him from winning. He welcomed the invasion like it was manna from heaven, and more than a few people in North Texas and Arkansas paid for his zealousness. Richard Matheson is (or was) his name, assuming he's still alive. The Marines found his beach house on the coast-local wife and kids still there, but he's not. CNN showed the raid on the house:They picked up the wife for a Q&A, and found the wife's parents to care for the kids.

Tomcat Fanatic

DD951 said: ↑
So it looks like we're going to be taking care of the Mexicans after all. Unfortunately, it doesn't look like the Navy's going to be needing my services for this one, as none of the Puget Sound NRF units or non-aviation units are being called up... Hopefully, if we do catch some of the collaborators, auxillaries, or related scumbags, they'll send a couple my way to prosecute for their misdeeds. As for those who are going out for this one- good luck and good hunting.

Sloreck- sorry to hear about the medical issues- knew you had some unfinished buisness with the Mexicans and some others, but hope you have as speedy of a recovery as possible.

Wolfman- Lexington ended up as a museum in San Diego (OOC- where Midway ended up OTL /ooc)- saw her a couple years ago when I was down there for a conference; apparently there was a big political fight over her between California, Texas, and Louisana, with California winning out even though her wartime service was in the Carribean & Eastern Seaboard, due to some back-room deals from one of their congressmen who got busted for a variety of corruption charges a few years back. (Same Congressman got Hornet for Oakland even though we here in Seattle had a much stronger case for her- better site and nearby war service.)
I'll have to go see her when I get the chance.

Wolfman

Matt Wiser said: ↑
Your F-111 crew's fine, just waiting to get transportation back to Goodfellow. Their Vark, though...it's only fit for the junk pile. They bellied in on landing, and an engine caught fire as they touched down. The plane's burned out as a result. Don't worry, though, they'll enjoy a room at the Sheraton (the manager found a vacant room-surprise, surprise) and they'll be comfy for a day or two.

You mean Guadalajara IAP, don't you? 419 took out Juraez IAP's runways-those GBU-24 concrete penetrator LGBs are wonders for that. But someone got to Guadalajara's runways this morning before we showed up-and those MiG-23s were stuck there. Kara took the 390th there in the afternoon and blasted them on the ground, and the maintenance hangars, control tower, and fuel depot along with the MiGs. The fixed SAMs may be finished, at least in the west: we haven't seen any since the morning, and there's intact sites, but the operators seem to be too scared to turn on their radars. Good. That means they'll live. For a while, anyway.

VI Corps is still fifty miles from Chihuahua, according to CNN. 4th Armored, 44th ID, and 14th ACR are all spread out for miles. 14th ACR crossed at Presidio, TX, while 5th AD and 44th ID went out of El Paso. Juraez is still a ghost town-and looks like WW III ended yesterday. My guess is that in a day or two, we'll have most, if not all, of our objectives met, and what happens next is up to Mexico City. That lunatic running things in Caracas is demanding the UN take action to support the Mexicans, but the UN is pretty deaf at the moment.
The runway in Guadalajara was my work. The Bengals are causing havoc for the Mexicans. They shoulda paid up...

Chuck Mandus

Timeline of War

OT Question, when did World War III begin and end, I have some stories I want to add but I need to know some of those dates first. Thanks.

Matt Wiser

The war began on 5 Sep 85 and ended in the lower 48 on 5 Oct 89. Armistice concluded two weeks later, but ignored by NKs and Cuba. Guam retaken from NKs 12-27 Dec 89. Cuba accepts Armistice terms as applying to them 4 March 1990. Technically, the U.S. is still at war with the Rump USSR, as no permanent peace has been signed, and the recent business with Cuba (invasion and overthrow of Castro Regime), and Mexico (current invasion and likely full-scale civil war) means the last tidying up of WW III is underway. There were lots of loose ends to tie up...in many cases, that meant tying a noose around their scrawny necks (collaborators, ComBloc war criminals, etc.).

Hey Wolfman, so that was your doing? You guys flying off a carrier or out of MCAS San Lucas (Cabo San Lucas)?

Wolfman

Matt Wiser said: ↑
The war began on 5 Sep 85 and ended in the lower 48 on 5 Oct 89. Armistice concluded two weeks later, but ignored by NKs and Cuba. Guam retaken from NKs 12-27 Dec 89. Cuba accepts Armistice terms as applying to them 4 March 1990. Technically, the U.S. is still at war with the Rump USSR, as no permanent peace has been signed, and the recent business with Cuba (invasion and overthrow of Castro Regime), and Mexico (current invasion and likely full-scale civil war) means the last tidying up of WW III is underway. There were lots of loose ends to tie up...in many cases, that meant tying a noose around their scrawny necks (collaborators, ComBloc war criminals, etc.).

Hey Wolfman, so that was your doing? You guys flying off a carrier or out of MCAS San Lucas (Cabo San Lucas)?
We're deployed to MCAS San Lucas from El Toro. San Lucas is a pretty decent place, but I prefer El Toro.

Matt Wiser

How are the locals taking all of this? Now that statehood's official for Baja, I mean. There's one advantage to being deployed here: that Hazardous Duty Station bonus in your pay kicked in once we landed at LeMay.

So far, not much: we have the day off, and the 366th has been busy. Kara's not the only one who's angry about the lack of air-to-air action, the whole 390th TFS is a bunch of fire-eaters, and the whole squadron is disappointed the MiGs didn't come up like the Intel guys said they would. Ground kills don't count....

Hey Mann: anything new going on in your neck of the theater? Now that the Army's stopped at the Phase I line, waiting to see if this revolt has more traction...not much is happening here. Two hops a day instead of three, and no AAA, SAMs, or MiGs. Unless they're holding back in case we decide to keep going south, it looks like they've quit-on the Pacific Coast, anyway. The PDLP hasn't shown up here, but who knows?

Wolfman

OOC: Is San Lucas in Baja? I stink at these kinds of things...

Matt Wiser

OOC: Cabo San Lucas is on the southern tip of Baja.

TheMann

Matt Wiser said: ↑
Hey Mann: anything new going on in your neck of the theater? Now that the Army's stopped at the Phase I line, waiting to see if this revolt has more traction...not much is happening here. Two hops a day instead of three, and no AAA, SAMs, or MiGs. Unless they're holding back in case we decide to keep going south, it looks like they've quit-on the Pacific Coast, anyway. The PDLP hasn't shown up here, but who knows?
Not much here. My F-111s are on patrol duties, moving around providing support as needed, but no specific targets. I'm just on patrol duties, but not seeing much here either. AWACS is now up in the area where I am, either AF E-3s or Navy E-2s, but we aren't seeing much. One of my wingies knocked out a Mexican Mi-8, but we haven't seen any fighters in a couple days. Kinda a bummer, I was hoping to knock down a few more.....

They've given up trying to have anything to do with the Bay of Campeche, so I suspect the MexiCommies are well aware that their regime is history, and are retreating into the mountains to fight guerilla-style. They can do that if they want, they've still lost, period......

Matt Wiser

Who knows for sure? This PLDP bunch may just be a faction that wanted to have better relations with us, but still have "socialist" tendencies. Campeche Bay and the Yucatan are guerilla territory, period-the Zapatistas and a couple of the anti-communist groups run wild there, and some of the areas between the current front line and Mexico City are held by some outfits that are also anti-communist. The fact that the PLDP has most of the remaining heavy armored and mechanized divisions means they'll probably come out on top, but that may depend on the price asked by the various regimental and divisional COs.....if those guys are in it for reasons other than ideology....watch it. CNN says that Mexico City is still a free-fire zone, where anything can happen. The PDLP claims they're in control, while the Government says the same thing. Both sides accuse the other of lying, atrocities, etc.

First time since this mess got started that we didn't drop any ordnance on a mission. Armed recon was the game today, and we didn't find anything moving up towards Hermosillo-anything of a military nature. Lots of civilians fleeing the intercinine warfare in Central Mexico, though-the Army won't be too thrilled with several hundred thousand mouths to feed and care for when they didn't expect it. We made a few low-level passes and people down there waved at us! Anyone else have that happen? Kara's pissed-she, too, thought there'd be more action than what's gone on. 366th had the day off today, so both the 390th and 391st spent a lot of time at the beach-and in the bar at the Sheraton. (We've practically adopted the place, and the management doesn't seem to mind)

Any more lefties caught? The only way out is via third-country air, and those flights have to refuel somewhere....Costa Rica's the only safe place, and both Honduras and Panama said any who do touch down take their safety into their own hands (hint: there's SOF there, waiting to snatch 'em).

DD951

TheMann said: ↑
Port Roberts was perhaps the biggest fuckup the Soviets ever made, because not only did they achieve absolutely nothing, when word of that got out every man (and virtually every woman) began looking to shoot Russians. After that stunt, Spetsnaz teams got diddly squat done - anybody that even looked Russian got beaten up or shot by local vigilantes. Russian Americans were attacked too - but those guys got their revenge by organizing themselves, and they asked to be brought into the Army in April '87, joining as a special forces unit, tasked with getting behind enemy lines. Did well at it, too. By the end of '88 the "Yankee Russians" were pretty well respected, and the Soviets hated them something awful. Their unit, the 95th Infantry, has ten Medal of Honor awards and countless Purple Hearts, Silver Stars and Intelligence Stars between them.

As for that fucker Robinson, part of me says drop a JDAM on his head and let God decide his fate, the other part of me thinks that at least we'll be able to get closure for some of the people who just don't know.
Slight correction- it's Point Roberts. Back when the Oregon Country was being divided between the US & Britain, the extension of the 49th Parallel straight out to the coast left the tip of a peninsula south of the line, while the base was north of it, and that southern tip was left to the US even though it was completely isolated from the rest of the mainland by Canada ( the residents would need a passport just to go to the mall), and Point Roberts was the town that grew on that southern tip, although the place was never rebuilt after the war. The community had been destroyed and nobody really wanted to go back there because of the ghosts or whatever, so the National Parks Service and the people who set up war memorials did some stuff to preserve the ruins, added a couple monuments and a mini-museum about the massacre, and turned the place into another national memorial park.

Matt Wiser

Of which there are all too many. When I was in Houston at Ellington Field for the first postwar air show down there, there was a ground-breaking for a memorial for the victims of that sicko Khvoshtov in Clear Lake City (NASA). Quite a few members of the NASA community were there, including several astronauts, a flyover by NASA T-38s, etc., and this was just for the ground-breaking ceremonies. I've never been to the finished memorial, but I'm told it's pretty somber. The museum there includes a list of known victims of that bastard, and a lot of material on his trial and execution. Some of this stuff had been used as evidence at trial, and was donated to the Museum by DOD and DOJ when the trial was done and Khvoshtov swung by the neck-one of my pilots in 419 is an airline pilot who does the SLC-Houston run for Delta in his day job; he flew over the memorial for the dedication, and they gave the pilots a sneak preview of the museum before the formal opening. It's said the memorial park at Los Alamos is equally somber-given what happened there, it's to be expected. NPS runs the Los Alamos Memorial, but NASA has the Clear Lake City one.

Panzerfaust a while back mentioned problems with unexploded ordnance still being uncovered from the war, and I saw a story on the Arizona Republic's web site tonight: seems an Apache Indian out hunting on the Mescalaro Reservation found the wreck of a Tu-22 Blinder (one of several known to have been shot down there attempting to attack Phoenix-area targets), and in the wreckage was a live AS-4 Kitchen missile, along with the remains of the three crewmen, and live 23-mm ammo for the tail guns. EOD from Davis-Monthan was called out, and they'll be there for several days, according to the story. A related story came from Newkirk, NM (where 23rd ID fought during PRAIRIE FIRE): some off-roaders near the little town off of I-40 found a buried cache of Soviet made 122-mm artillery ammo. The nearest EOD team is at Cannon AFB, and you can bet they'll get out there ASAP. How'd they find it? Well, a recent rain washed away some of the earth covering the cache, and someone's ATV flipped. There's quite a few wrecked tanks and APCs in the area that no one's bothered to remove, and those might have live rounds still in 'em, so the AF EOD people will be busy.

Well, the Navy had some action today: Salem and her destroyers went down the coast to Acapulco and shelled the naval base there. 200+ 8-inch rounds on the target....an old Riga-class frigate came out (more guts than brains), and ate a Harpoon from one of the destroyers. She's an artifical reef now... CNN had a crew on the cruiser and had footage of the shore bombardment and the destroyer action.

TheMann

Matt Wiser said: ↑
Of which there are all too many. When I was in Houston at Ellington Field for the first postwar air show down there, there was a ground-breaking for a memorial for the victims of that sicko Khvoshtov in Clear Lake City (NASA). Quite a few members of the NASA community were there, including several astronauts, a flyover by NASA T-38s, etc., and this was just for the ground-breaking ceremonies. I've never been to the finished memorial, but I'm told it's pretty somber. The museum there includes a list of known victims of that bastard, and a lot of material on his trial and execution. Some of this stuff had been used as evidence at trial, and was donated to the Museum by DOD and DOJ when the trial was done and Khvoshtov swung by the neck-one of my pilots in 419 is an airline pilot who does the SLC-Houston run for Delta in his day job; he flew over the memorial for the dedication, and they gave the pilots a sneak preview of the museum before the formal opening. It's said the memorial park at Los Alamos is equally somber-given what happened there, it's to be expected. NPS runs the Los Alamos Memorial, but NASA has the Clear Lake City one.

Yeah, don't forget the Memorial in Denver where the Russian advance finally ground to a halt. I remember being there a year or so after it was dedicated in 1993, and not only the thing absolutely huge - it's better than 350 feet tall - but when I was there it was absolutely spotless, a year after it opened. Ten years later I saw it again passing through, and it was still spotless. I think I know why though, the first time I was there, two kids skateboarding on it get thrown off by a couple of older vets, one of whom smacked one of the kids across the face. I know many of Denver's survivors take good care of it.

BlairWitch749 said: ↑
Panzerfaust a while back mentioned problems with unexploded ordnance still being uncovered from the war, and I saw a story on the Arizona Republic's web site tonight: seems an Apache Indian out hunting on the Mescalaro Reservation found the wreck of a Tu-22 Blinder (one of several known to have been shot down there attempting to attack Phoenix-area targets), and in the wreckage was a live AS-4 Kitchen missile, along with the remains of the three crewmen, and live 23-mm ammo for the tail guns. EOD from Davis-Monthan was called out, and they'll be there for several days, according to the story.
Shit, a live AS-4? I'm glad the gent had enough brain to stay away from it, a AS-4 going off will blown up everything for a good 100 yards. I hope the EOD guys have their life insurance paid up when they go near that one.

BlairWitch749 said: ↑
Well, the Navy had some action today: Salem and her destroyers went down the coast to Acapulco and shelled the naval base there. 200+ 8-inch rounds on the target....an old Riga-class frigate came out (more guts than brains), and ate a Harpoon from one of the destroyers. She's an artifical reef now... CNN had a crew on the cruiser and had footage of the shore bombardment and the destroyer action.
Why would somebody waste a Harpoon on a Riga, it's like shooting a seagull with a 12-gauge. Salem's 5-inchers woulda sorted that, and if they didn't want to let it get that close, a Sparrow woulda done the deed in short order, too.

Anyways, on my front, The Mexican Navy got a little more balsier today out of Veracruz, two Krivaks, two Osa Is and a Kashin, stormed out of the Marina north of the city and tried to hit Massachusetts and Newport News. One of the supply ships put the final insult on one of the Osas - she'd been hit by a Harpoon and was dead in the water, so one of supply ships (USS Lewis and Clark) decided to get in on the action themselves and ran over what was left of the missile boat - literally. When has a supply ship ever sank something before, anyways? The Navy guys called us out worried about the naval attack being something done as part of a co-ordinated attack (it wasn't) and we got to see the Kashin die. The bugger took four Harpoons to sink.

DD951

I've never been to the Pt. Roberts Memorial Park- not exactly a place I ever want to see again after seeing the immediate aftermath of the massacre, but I understand it's pretty similar. From a glance at that NPS website, although there's only a half-dozen including Pt. Roberts here in WA, christ, there are dozens of them in the Southwest and Northern Plains states, each with its own tale of tragedy resulting from the depravity on those on the other side.......

Unexploded ordinance is a problem up here too- not a whole lot other than the stray bomb for most of the stuff on land, but a lot of warship wrecks, most of them having gone down with a good deal of ammo onboard, and over the years, there have been a couple dozen incidents were wreck divers and unlucky fisherman have gotten blown up by old warheads. That's on top of a disaster that happened about 10 years ago, where about three dozen children of elementary and junior high age at a summer camp in the San Juans were going on a trip to the beach, and from a video taken from a boat off-shore, the idiot camp counselors (5-6 of them) must have decided it was a good idea to let the kids play on the wreck of a Nanuchka I that had been beached in sinking condition during a small craft action in early 1987, and somehow, a SS-N-9 in the wreck got jarred or something, and it detonated (1100 lb HE warhead + rocket fuel), setting off a couple other missiles (SS-N-9s & SA-N-4 SAMs [naval version of a SA-8 Gecko]) & a bunch of 57mm ammo in a chain reaction- with all too tragic & predictable results for the kids.

Lord knows why the intel or EOD folks just left it there without checking to see if there was any ordinance or anything left in the wrecks- must have fallen through a bureaucratic crack, while it turned out that the contractor hired to remove potentially dangerous wrecks and ordinance had been engaging in systemic fraud- taking money but lying about actually doing the work; quite a few executives and managers ended up not only with federal fraud charges, but state murder charges (& under WA law, causing a death through actions demonstrating depraved indifference to human life is murder 1 and also grounds for an aggravated murder charge as is multiple victims.) Needless to say, several of them will only be getting out of prison in a box.

I also understand that there's quite a problem with unexploded ordinance in BC, but that doesn't get as much play in the local papers- maybe Pyro might have something to add on that subject.

DD951

TheMann said: ↑
Why would somebody waste a Harpoon on a Riga, it's like shooting a seagull with a 12-gauge. Salem's 5-inchers woulda sorted that, and if they didn't want to let it get that close, a Sparrow woulda done the deed in short order, too.
Well, they say there's no kill like overkill...

However, a Riga could have done some damage if given a chance- it's essentially a fast WW2 DE in terms of capability & size with 3 3" guns (wouldn't really have hurt Salem, but certainly could have done some damage to the screening units) and a couple 21" torpedo tubes- if it had modern anti-ship torpedos or been swapped out for anti-ship missiles, it wouldn't have been pretty if it got those off, and while SAMs such as SM-2 & ESSM do have an antiship capability, the actual warhead is about the same as a 3" shell, and it'd take a bit of time for the fires caused by the fuel to do their damage, while WW2 destroyer designs could take quite a bit of medium calibre gunfire before going down with a determined crew, so a Harpoon would have been the safest and quickest option- it may be overkill, but that's probably how I'd do it if I was screening a high-value unit.

Anyways, on my front, The Mexican Navy got a little more balsier today out of Veracruz, two Krivaks, two Osa Is and a Kashin, stormed out of the Marina north of the city and tried to hit Massachusetts and Newport News. One of the supply ships put the final insult on one of the Osas - she'd been hit by a Harpoon and was dead in the water, so one of supply ships (USS Lewis and Clark) decided to get in on the action themselves and ran over what was left of the missile boat - literally. When has a supply ship ever sank something before, anyways? The Navy guys called us out worried about the naval attack being something done as part of a co-ordinated attack (it wasn't) and we got to see the Kashin die. The bugger took four Harpoons to sink.
As for supply ships sinking stuff, I think that in the first 2 world wars, armed merchantmen did sink a few subs and perhaps the odd PT boat or equivalent through gunfire and ramming, while there was that one incident in WW2 where a Liberty Ship and a German auxillary cruiser sank each other in an intense action in the Indian Ocean. However, the fleet train is supposed to be kept out of the front line when possible, while ramming is usually discouraged except as a desperation measure- often, the ramming ship has to go back to the yard to fix the resulting hull damages, and TF commanders are understandibly unhappy with losing units that way.
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Jan 6, 2010
#1839

Wolfman

Matt Wiser said: ↑
OOC: Cabo San Lucas is on the southern tip of Baja.
OOC: Thanks.
IC: The people just love us... and the pay is even better than at El Toro. Must be the hazard pay.

BigWillyG

DD951 said: ↑
Well, they say there's no kill like overkill...

However, a Riga could have done some damage if given a chance- it's essentially a fast WW2 DE in terms of capability & size with 3 3" guns (wouldn't really have hurt Salem, but certainly could have done some damage to the screening units) and a couple 21" torpedo tubes- if it had modern anti-ship torpedos or been swapped out for anti-ship missiles, it wouldn't have been pretty if it got those off, and while SAMs such as SM-2 & ESSM do have an antiship capability, the actual warhead is about the same as a 3" shell, and it'd take a bit of time for the fires caused by the fuel to do their damage, while WW2 destroyer designs could take quite a bit of medium calibre gunfire before going down with a determined crew, so a Harpoon would have been the safest and quickest option- it may be overkill, but that's probably how I'd do it if I was screening a high-value unit.

As for supply ships sinking stuff, I think that in the first 2 world wars, armed merchantmen did sink a few subs and perhaps the odd PT boat or equivalent through gunfire and ramming, while there was that one incident in WW2 where a Liberty Ship and a German auxillary cruiser sank each other in an intense action in the Indian Ocean. However, the fleet train is supposed to be kept out of the front line when possible, while ramming is usually discouraged except as a desperation measure- often, the ramming ship has to go back to the yard to fix the resulting hull damages, and TF commanders are understandibly unhappy with losing units that way.
I saw a merchie sink a warship during the war. I think I told this story 10 pages back but on one of our convoy attacks a Polish merchie defected and cut a Petya in half that was trying to stop them defecting. Merchie had some damage but made it to Savannah ok. The Petya sank like a stone though.

From page 94

Wolfman

Nikephoros said: ↑
Talk about one hell of an understatement.

AdirondackSeperatist

During the War, I don't really have vivid memories of the start of it as I was a small child being only 3 years of age in 1985. At that time my family lived in Upstate New York. I do have some memories of the initial attack as the television newscaster was very sternly and seriously reading the names of places I've never heard of and numbers that I couldn't yet comprehend. My mother was going out of her mind crying and rocking me back and forth whilst my father ran throughout the apartment we lived in throwing objects into bags, and trying frantically to reach relatives via the phone.

The next few years was -as I was later told afterwards- hard. I remember being hungry a lot, and the power and water would cut in and out mostly because most of the trained technical people who usually handled utility maintenance were immediatley recruited by the federal government to use for military purposes. My father, who was in his late twenties at the time enlisted in the New York National Guard where he was shipped southwest to reinforce troops holding the line in the Southern great plains (I didn't get to see him again until mid-late 1989).

Halfwar through 1987 My mother took myself to live with her parents in Glens Falls NY. She eventually got an administrative job in Albany NY working for the department of defense that she would communte to every day.

Indeed, at this point Albany had become a major federal hub for the northeast US as an important staging and tatical planning center. the city became invaluable for not only coordinating homeland battlefield operations, but also as a city that acted as a defacto capital for the Alliance nations (America, Canada, Britain, and China) being relativle sheltered by terrain and geography and heavily reinforced by Federal and some Canadian troops.

We remained in this situation until the war ended in 1989, I often wonder the type of person I have become if I had never been 'tested' like I was in those years.

Wolfman

Hmm, I remember a couple of missions supporting the New York National Guard when I was with 533. They fought alongside the 2nd Marine Division at Baton Rouge. Tough guys, especially the infantry, who had a knack for calling in Marine CAS at just the right time to shatter enemy attacks on their positions.

AdirondackSeperatist

Yeah wolfman, I've heard a few stories from my father about the days of the invaision. Although hes mostly mum on many things, he did tell me how much he enjoyed hearing the shreik of air support comming in.

Those instances of course were after he was in for a year a little more than battle hardened. According to my dad, most of the NYNG guys were just suburban kids and city boys and they were understandably scared and sent in hastily with little in the way of training, mostly becasue Governor Cuomo (that asshole) was anxious to make a name for himself out of this war.

Many of these boys died immediatley or went AWOL and hid with the other deserters in West Virgina. My dad was lucky few who grew up on a farm and could shoot, handle the dirt and mud, and knew what guts looked like.

I'm not sure if his unit specifically ever operated with any Marines, although they did run a lot of join operations under Army command with Vermont National Guard in western Tennessee and the southern foothills of the appalachians before being moved to the front lines in '88. Of course the Vermonters would only be called the green mountain boys. They often lacked good gear and organization as well. But dammed if they wern't the sneakiest bunch of sonsofbitches you'd ever have the misfortune fighting a geurilla war against... According to my dad. When he was on the front lines they routinely sent vermonters into occupied territory to asist American partisan operations and relay recon info.

Wolfman

Well, I was working as a FAC during LONG RIFLE and worked with some guys from the NYNG. Was your dad in on that?

Matt Wiser

I took a look at an online OB for the U.S. Army during the war, and it has two NY NG units listed. 42nd ID (M) (the "Rainbow" Division) and the 27th Infantry Brigdade (L). 27th IB fought in Louisiana, while 42nd ID was at St. Louis, then later on, Northern Arkansas and NE Texas. They ended the war at Roma, Texas, on the Rio Grande. 27th IB helped clear Houston and Corpus Christi, and ended the war in the Rio Grande Valley NW of Brownsville.

Kara got #2 today: one of the PLDP's choppers-a Hip-came up while she was leading a flight on an armed recon. The Sidewinder she fired was the only ordnance expended-this time. That's #14 in her score sheet. Not exactly a MiG or Sukhoi, but a kill's a kill.

We were watching CNN in between mission briefs (more armed recon-again), and the UN finally got around to having a session on what they called "American operations in Northern Mexico." The Rump USSR, NK, and the MexGov called it "Blatant Imperialist Aggression" (but what else is new?), and demanded the Security Council take some action. After the council members had their say, the vote was 13-1-1 against the Rump USSR's resolution. The yea vote was the Soviet one, the abstention was Argentina, and everyone else voted against. After it was over, the Soviet delegation (along with the NKs and MexGov) walked out-again.

Wolfman

Yeah, the 27th IB was a bunch of tough SOBs, for Army-types. Last I heard they were one of the few units designated as 'Honorary Marines'. They deserve it, big time. I worked with them during the Liberation of Houston as their FAC, since the Battalion Commander had a preference for Marine Air, like Gen. MacArthur in the Phillipines during WWII.

AdirondackSeperatist

You know, Judging by Matt's description I'd have to say that he was with the 42nd (I'll have to double check on that when I see him later), I remember my dad telling me he ended up in Texarkana before one of the last pushes into Texas in conjunction with action from one of the lonestar partisan groups. He doesnt really talk much about what he did in texas, I don't ask him, As we all know Texas was bloodbath at the conclusion of the war. I have a feeling that my dad participated in the roundup and liquidation of many of the complicit elements in Texas, those being local turncoat politicians, and Mexican soldiers who deserted and attempted to blend in with the local Hispanic population.

Anyways wolfman, thanks for your service, with folks like you and my father I wouldnt have the pleasure to be here today as a proud and free American.

Wolfman

You're quite welcome.

BigWillyG

I went to school and was freinds with a lot of guys who ended up in NYNG. My best freind from high school ended up leading B company in one of the regiments of the 27th by the end of the war. We talk about the war sometimes. I'm always glad I was a sailor when we talk since he saw alot of horrible things in the land combat. As it was B company was raised out of Broome county with a few from Oneida and Delaware.
Syracuse area ANG also had an active war if anyone ran into them.

AdirondackSeperatist

Location:Potsdam and Saratoga Springs Ny
Its quite obvious from the past that those pinko sonsofbitches didn't use enough nukes on us :cool: History Lesson Kids.

On a more serious note I'm often angry though that our submarine fleet heeded orders to NOT retaliate. WTF. If I had been in command of a nuke sub I wouldve Vaporized every soviet city within range... Lucky they didn't so we still habitable planet.. Still though, anyone else mildly bitter about the invasion? So many Americans and Canadians slaughtered for no reason. What do we get? Protracted ground operations in Northern Mexico and an elevated cancer rate? The Europeans can go suck a d**k too.

Matt Wiser

The Wing from Syracuse (174th TFW) was A-10 equipped, and they went up north-flew out of a civilian airport in Washington, on CAS/BAI missions up in the Pacific NW. The Air War College history says they missed the Seattle amphib as they were busy along the area where Idaho, Washington, and British Columbia meet: seems Ivan had some kind of operation going at the same time there, and our guys were screaming for A-10s. Too bad: it would've been nice to see what those 30-mm GAU-8 guns could inflict on a ship...

DD951

Matt Wiser said: ↑
That wouldn't surprise me at all. How much warning did we have, anyway? A lot of that stuff is still classified. "Sources and methods" is the excuse given. Didn't the Joint Congressional Committee spend a lot of time and money looking at that failure: "The worst U.S. intelligence failure since Pearl Harbor, and the worst in U.S. history" is what the report says. And I'll go along with that.
Yeah, I saw that, truly incredible, and having had some access to the classified part, I'll just say that that article in the Onion last week claiming that the reason was that the CIA types experimenting with mind-control and using LSD and other drugs to mess with assorted people inadvertently using the CIA types responsible for watching out for stuff like that build-up would be a lot more palatable had it happened, than some of what really did. If they were military, they would have deserved to have been court-martialed for dereliction of duty and just about anything else in the UCMJ that has half a chance of sticking in a case of incompetence and willfull blindness.

Hey 951, they nailed somebody wanted up in your neck of the woods. Some member of the "Socialist Freedom Party" who tried blowing up power lines leading to Boeing's Renton plant in 1987 was found at a beach condo in Kimo Bay. He was under an assumed name, but had quite a comfy existence, with a stipend paid by the Mexicans and...other parties. Does the name Carl Stanton ring a bell? 5th Armored Division got him this morning, according to CNN. 5th AD's press briefing said the schmuck was singing like a canary when the grunts hauled him in. No statute of limitations on wartime sabotage, I do believe, and this guy may very well have a date with the noose if he doesn't plead out.
Heard of that guy- one of those on the most wanted list up here- did that, and a couple firebombings of recruiting stations at night, vandalizing electrical substations, a botched carbombing attempt outside an Everett bar popular with sailors, and is a person of interest in the unsolved murders of a couple soliders and sailors, although from the evidence, it's unclear whether it was random assassination or just muggings gone bad. Overall, he was a rather inept low-level type- think of some of the crazies in the 60s who were into burning ROTC buildings and that sort of stuff, but just as much of a danger to themselves as their intended targets. However, since most of that is terroristic activities during wartime, that'd probably be military jurisdiction, while if it turns out that he did those murders, that would be military if it was done because they were in the service, and if it was just a robbery, that'd be a state matter- probably just a question of who gets to hang him if he doesn't plead out.

Wolfman

Well, I hope the runt sonvabitch swings for those murders, assuming it's proven that he did it.

JN1

Don't beat up the CIA too badly, it's not as if any other Western intelligence agency spotted the Soviet build-up, or if they did put all the pieces together.

Matt Wiser

The Congressional Investigation blamed CIA, DIA, etc, though to be fair, some of those involved at those agencies never made it out of D.C. after the bomb went off. The DEA actually had some good intel, the Committee found, as some of their informants were reporting on the buildup along the Rio Grande, but the HUMINT was dismissed by the CIA as "overly exaggerated"-as one Senator put it.

Anyone hear this on the news today? Seems the PLDP has contacted U.S. forces at several locations, and is asking for official recognition as the legitimate government of Mexico, and is promising "Prompt action to resolve outstanding wartime issues between the two countries." No word yet from the State Department, though I imagine it's being talked about in Philly. The Mexican Government is still shreiking "Resistance to Death Against the Invaders and Traitors" but things with them seem finally to be falling down. About freaking time. The CNN crew in Mexico City had a real report other than being on a satellite phone for the first time in a few days: Most of the capital is in the hands of the PLDP's forces, though there's still fighting in the southern part of the city. Most of the cities in Central Mexico have finally gone to the PLDP. It looks like it's almost over, guys. One more score settled. Now all we need is the Rump USSR and the NKs to fall-for good.

Hey JN, don't know if you saw this earlier, but did anyone you know who was in Hong Kong in March of '89 remember the Baron 55 crew when they arrived at the border? I got another call from a movie producer and DOD's liasion office in Hollywood, asking for info on the crew (current contact info, story details not in the book, etc). The E&E that crew had in two years of wandering thru the chaos that was (and still is) China is still taught today in survival schools and at ROTC, OCS, and the AF Academy (expanded version of the book in the latter-there's classified stuff in the former). They did have some harrowing adventures with various warlords and PLA units still loyal to the vaporized government, not to mention bandits, rambunctious separatists in some areas, etc. You'd be surprised how many of those warlord types tried to get the lone female (the copilot) to "stay with us" in exchange for safe passage for the rest of the crew....Sometimes her black belt in Judo came in very handy.

DD951

AdirondackSeperatist said: ↑
Its quite obvious from the past that those pinko sonsofbitches didn't use enough nukes on us :cool: History Lesson Kids.

On a more serious note I'm often angry though that our submarine fleet heeded orders to NOT retaliate. WTF. If I had been in command of a nuke sub I wouldve Vaporized every soviet city within range... Lucky they didn't so we still habitable planet.. Still though, anyone else mildly bitter about the invasion? So many Americans and Canadians slaughtered for no reason. What do we get? Protracted ground operations in Northern Mexico and an elevated cancer rate? The Europeans can go suck a d**k too.
Okay, take an even strain, son- SSBN officers, especially captains, XOs, and missile officers, go through some fairly extensive screening and training to make sure that they only launch if they have a valid order to, and to do whatever it takes to make sure that no launch occurs without a valid order, as a launch requires several officers to take action in concert at several points in the process.

Those of us who were there are still bitter about it, the fighting, all the friends we lost, and the atrocities we saw, all because those SOBs in the Soviet Politburo decided a foreign adventure was the best way to maintain their grip on power in the face of an impending political and economic meltdown. About the only good things beside the survival of the western world to come out of that was that it led to the collapse of the communist block and the discrediting of communism outside of a few rogue states and some delusional, generally disliked idiots here and elsewhere.

And lay off the Europeans- the Brits were right there with us, and even if most of continental governments weren't willing to get involved and some were even being run by Soviet stooges, some increased their forces committed to NATO deployments so that we could redeploy our forces in Europe back home as reinforcements. More to the point, even if a lot of the governments went sideways, the people both inside and outside their militaries had their hearts in the right place, as there were a lot of people who volunteered to fight with us, both military and civilian, including in some cases, military units and detachments that were in the US or nearby, sometimes in defiance of their own governments, as was the case with a German destroyer and frigate I saw during the Battle of Vancouver and on some of the Alaska convoy runs. Other posters have mentioned things such as AF & Navy squadrons of European volunteers, assorted training and liason groups attaching themselves to Army & Marine Corps formations, and several units of volunteers ranging from company to brigade size, including an interesting Irish one which was at Denver, and apparently had a lot of IRA and Loyalist Paramilitary types from Northern Ireland in it.

lukedalton

AdirondackSeperatist said: ↑
Its quite obvious from the past that those pinko sonsofbitches didn't use enough nukes on us :cool: History Lesson Kids.

On a more serious note I'm often angry though that our submarine fleet heeded orders to NOT retaliate. WTF. If I had been in command of a nuke sub I wouldve Vaporized every soviet city within range... Lucky they didn't so we still habitable planet.. Still though, anyone else mildly bitter about the invasion? So many Americans and Canadians slaughtered for no reason. What do we get? Protracted ground operations in Northern Mexico and an elevated cancer rate? The Europeans can go suck a d**k too.
Young man, you and most of your generation convenientely forget that without we europeans the official language of the USA will be russian.
Sure, initially we have stayed out of the conflict , officially, but first try to understand our position... right in front of 60 soviet tank division and not counting the rest of the old warsaw pact (and the thounsand of soviet tactical nukes ). The genius in the politburo thinked they can steamroll America so they class A division were not initially all transported on the american or canadian front, but keep ready to cover their back and scaring us in not helping our former ally, so image if they were part of the initial invasion. As all you learned, a ground war fight inside your nation is not a pretty thing, so you can understan if we were reticent to repeat the experience of our fathers and grandfathers, for heaven sake we have cleared Italy from world war II mines just ten years ago (true in OTL)
Still we have helped, turning a blind eye when volunteers tried to go in america or looking shocked;) when entire unite 'mutined' and joined the US force and all the information your naval and air unit casually receivedo helped a lot i humble think, finally simply keep warsaw pact force in europe for protection against an Europen attack, because no governament even the more left leaned accepted the non aggression/friendship treaty that the soviet proposed not long after the war begin, meanead less force avaible against you
Ironic isn't it? For long time we italian, french and german have asked to ourself if the USA were ready to sacrifice New York for Brest or Venice? But in the end the question was: Is Europe ready to sacrifice Paris or Berlin for Peoria.

Matt Wiser

There were quite a few West Europeans here on exchange duty, and when their home governments recalled them (being Soviet stooges or just plain frightened into neutrality), they refused-to a man. Some military and intelligence services maintained intelligence-sharing and other activities, quietly and without fuss. Others (like the Turks, Israelis, Egyptians, Japanese, ROKs, Aussies, Kiwis) were more blatant with such things as supplying arms, intelligence, and from the Aussies, even food. (with half the Great Plains under enemy occupation or affected by the ICBM bases in the Dakotas being hit-the Wheat from Australia and Argentina helped out a lot) And South America was staunchly anti-communist, or as one Brazilian General said to an LA Times reporter after some leftists tried seizing the Defense Ministry and the U.S. Embassy in Brasilia, "We don't have a Scorched Earth policy, we have a Scorched Communist policy." (down there, that could be taken literally, and in some places like Chile or Peru, it was.) Of all the Central American countries, Belize and Costa Rica were neutral, Panama had some nasty fights over the canal, and Nicaragua, El Salvador, Honduras, and Guatamala were ComBloc.

AdirondackSeperatist

I'm not anti-european, I dont hate the european people or blame them, but the european governments' decisions for themselves had grave reprocussions on us. Was it not primarily Europe that forced the dissolution of NATO by deserting it? When NATO went in mid '85 it basically gave the Soviets and their lacky states the political will to plan and impliment their operation. So did the Europeans mean harm? No. Did they contribute to its cause? Yes.

Regardless, I do agree with the assertion that the war in the end wasn't a bad result for us. Indeed how many of us in the US or Canada would ever truley appreciate what we have if we never had to give our lives to defend and preserve it? I shutter to think the apathy and nhilsm that could have developed among us without a kick in the ass. For that, I give Ivan and Jose a hearty "thanks"...

P.S I don't include the British Isles when I refer to Europe despite the technical definition.

The Brits were afterall with us there the entire time.

From page 96

JN1

Not sure there are many places around the UK where a ship that size could be sunk. There were proposals to use her in a sinkex, but the value of her steel won out over all other options.

Wolfman

That's a bummer.

BigWillyG

All this talk of foreign support made me think of some of the foreign small craft that helped us at convoy busting sometimes. We had several La Combattante class boats from several countries most of the time. There was also the Danish Willemoes, the Finnish Rauma and the Swedish Norrkoping that helped us jump a troop convoy off Charleston. How those small craft made it to the US I don't know but they did. The Finns and the Swedes were definately taking a risk sending any help to us considering how close they were to the Sovs.

Matt Wiser

Wolfman, we just got unlucky: the SA-6 went off near the aircraft, and sprayed shrapnel into the port wing, left engine, and part of the tail-which took out the Radar Warning Receivers. So I finally get control, and plan to puch out once we clear the mountains, when we're sprayed by 57-mm. Took a hit to the starboard engine, it quit, and it was time to get out. A while back I posted a story where the crash site was found and now the Walesnberg County Museum has some pieces of the wreck, while the Wings Over the Rockies Museum in Denver and the AF Academy are now in Federal Court, fighting over the tail assembly: the former wants it, the latter also wants it (my then-backseater was an Academy grad) and so...Five months with the Resistance, running, hiding, fighting, and just plain surviving on whatever you could gather or shoot-or loot from Ivan. SERE came in pretty handy for that. Still, not real fun at all. Lost 15 pounds and had to take medicine for worms and such for a few weeks after getting over the Moutains once the snow melted in May. We could've been helo'd out, but the CH-47s (the preferred lifter in the Rockies) were all busy with the Denver airlift. So we had to do it the old-fashioned way: rode horseback and walked. When I came back to the squadron is when I picked up Lisa as my new backseater-my old one went to be an instructor at the RTU at Kingsley Field, Oregon (Klamath Falls).

AdirondackSeperatist

JN1 said: ↑
Listen sunshine friends of mine went through hell fighting as part of the British Army in Canada; my mate who dropped with 15 Para into Vancouver IAP was never the same again. I know men who lost limbs, eyes and their minds in Canada fighting the Soviets. I also lost two very close friends from my days with the University OTU.

As a nation Britain also went through hell, our civilian casualties were, proportionally, as high as America and Canada. We also sent soldiers, planes and warships to assist our brothers on the other side of the Atlantic at a time when we were under daily attack and under threat of invasion.
I did not get shot at by Spetsnaz, nearly blown up by several IEDs and get nearly killed by riotous mobs so that idiots like you can belittle our efforts.

OOC: Obviously the above is IC and is not meant to offend the poster.
Perhaps you missed my follow-up post in which I explained my position on the Europeans AND British during the invaision. If this is true, I've reposted it here for your review:

I'm not anti-european, I dont hate the european people or blame them, but the european governments' decisions for themselves had grave reprocussions on us. Was it not primarily Europe that forced the dissolution of NATO by deserting it? When NATO went in mid '85 it basically gave the Soviets and their lacky states the political will to plan and impliment their operation. So did the Europeans mean harm? No. Did they contribute to its cause? Yes.

Regardless, I do agree with the assertion that the war in the end wasn't a bad result for us. Indeed how many of us in the US or Canada would ever truley appreciate what we have if we never had to give our lives to defend and preserve it? I shutter to think the apathy and nhilsm that could have developed among us without a kick in the ass. For that, I give Ivan and Jose a hearty "thanks"...

P.S I don't include the British Isles when I refer to Europe despite the technical definition.

The Brits, were afterall, with us there the entire time.


(Ps I am new to this board, but not to Althist, let me tell you this thread inspired me to watch this movie again... one of the best of all times.)

Matt Wiser

Hey JN1, glad to see that those Buff crash sites will be checked out. AF SOC has recovery teams that can come in if necessary, and they've got some muscle of their own. The Navy will have to take care of the Buff off the coast, though, and that will take some work.

One thing that really surprised me about the E&E, though I didn't find out until much, much later (at last year's Victory Day air show, to be precise), was that as we went over the Rockies to friendly territory (there were 12 of us downed aircrew, plus a couple of Resistance guides) there was a Spetsnatz team on a LRRP mission, and they tracked us, and got close enough to use a telephoto lens to take some decent pictures. Colonel Bella told me at Scott AFB at the show that he knew all about me and my back-seater, and the pics were good enough to make a decent ID. That report was one of the last things to cross his desk before he defected. That was a real jaw-dropper...I called Sheriff Lori Sheppard (one of our guides) and told her that, and she was ballistic. She thought there was an undiscovered traitor in the group, but she calmed down when I told her the Spetsnatz team had been in the mountains for several days, scouting out the passes and seeing who was going across and what they were up to. Still, we had a fire-fight the next to last day in the mountains-seems some Cuban SOF stumbled onto our campsite, and they had to be driven off, but the other guide...he bit the big one. In '87 a GRU report on USAF aces was captured at Tinker AFB, and it had me on it, along with Mann and quite a few others.

JN1

Matt,
Don't worry, we've got plenty of muscle of our own in HK-Canton. If necessary the archaeological teams will take armour from the resident RAC Squadron and have Apaches and Typhoons flying shotgun.
The local hotheads have learned recently, once again, not to p*ss us off. We've very much taken the attitude of 'you fire one mortar round at us and we'll give you a full scale artillery fire mission in return. The RA in HK have deployed COBRA and the new MAMBA locating radars in the area, so that any mortars, or rockets fired into our territory will get 105mm, or 155mm HE rounds in return.

Matt Wiser

That's good to hear, but when the DOD search teams come from the POW-MIA Office, AFSOC comes along, just to be on the safe side. Did you ever ask your HK friends if they ran into the Baron 55 crew after they got to HK? They had the longest E&E of any crew forced down in what was China. Two-plus years in bandit/warlord/PLA territory... Watch for the movie, it's been signed for an HBO/BBC coproduction. The book's dated, so I don't know what the crew's up to recently, other than the copilot. She now runs the 416th BW at Griffiss AFB (Rome, NY). She was deputy Wing CO for the 93rd at Castle, but got her own wing before this Mexico business kicked off.

Speaking of which, the PLDP seems to be in control of the Central and North-Central parts of the country. Only the south and Yucatan is out of their control, and that's mainly due to all the rebel groups-most of whom have issued statements denouncing the PLDP as "Light Marxists." The Zapatistas, of course, hate the PLDP, the MexGov, the other rebels, and us. No surprise there. The MexGov still has control over parts of Mexico City and all of the Pacific Coast, or at least that's what my Intel officer says. Nothing secret about that: it's what the talking heads on CNN have been saying for a couple days now. Neither the 419th or the 366th has dropped a bomb or fired a missile in several days. The 352nd has had to bomb a few idiots who lit their radars onto 352nd Strike Eagles and Vipers, but we haven't had to-yet. Now, if the PLDP will listen to us, maybe we can go home and get back into peacetime routine.

JN1

From what my mates have said it's a case of a friend of a friend ran into them. I do know that they were royally entertained in the various messes of the RAF, army and Royal Navy.
A few of their AKs have ended up as ornaments on mess walls. Has the female crewmember ever spoken about the Wessex pilot from 28 (AC) Squadron she allegedly hooked up with for one night after the festivities in the RAF Officer's mess?

Wolfman

Matt Wiser said: ↑
Wolfman, we just got unlucky: the SA-6 went off near the aircraft, and sprayed shrapnel into the port wing, left engine, and part of the tail-which took out the Radar Warning Receivers. So I finally get control, and plan to puch out once we clear the mountains, when we're sprayed by 57-mm. Took a hit to the starboard engine, it quit, and it was time to get out. A while back I posted a story where the crash site was found and now the Walesnberg County Museum has some pieces of the wreck, while the Wings Over the Rockies Museum in Denver and the AF Academy are now in Federal Court, fighting over the tail assembly: the former wants it, the latter also wants it (my then-backseater was an Academy grad) and so...Five months with the Resistance, running, hiding, fighting, and just plain surviving on whatever you could gather or shoot-or loot from Ivan. SERE came in pretty handy for that. Still, not real fun at all. Lost 15 pounds and had to take medicine for worms and such for a few weeks after getting over the Moutains once the snow melted in May. We could've been helo'd out, but the CH-47s (the preferred lifter in the Rockies) were all busy with the Denver airlift. So we had to do it the old-fashioned way: rode horseback and walked. When I came back to the squadron is when I picked up Lisa as my new backseater-my old one went to be an instructor at the RTU at Kingsley Field, Oregon (Klamath Falls).
My pilot and I had our fair share of close encounters with SA-6/57mm set-ups during the war. The Reds got quite fiendish in how they would hide them, or not, if they were using one set-up as bait to draw in Iron Hand assets while a second set-up blew them to Hell. Well, we learned quickly enough, and the Resistance got very good at blowing them up once they found out about how these sites were giving their flying friends grief.

Dialga

Let me tell you something: Hiding out in the Everglades for several years was no picnic. Also, my brother wasn't mentally fit for the military, so we were out of luck there.

Matt Wiser

There was an amphibious raid the first week of the war, targeted on Miami-Dade County, and a lot of folks ran for the swamp. I had a college friend in 24th ID sitting at Orlando, waiting for the Cubans to come north, and nothing happened. So they were sent south, and ran into refugees fleeing South Florida, all convinced the Cubans were chasing after them. What'd the Cubans do, apart from scaring the hell out of most of Florida? They nearly overran Homestead AFB and the nearby nuclear power plant, wrecked the Port of Miami, Miami IAP, and the Opa-Locka Coast Guard Air Station. When 24th ID (and the Florida NG's 53rd IB) arrived, they found those facilities wrecked, several freighters and a cruise liner sunk to block the harbor, and the bridges to Miami Beach blown, along with the usual looting, pillage, rape, and so forth. My friend was a mech platoon leader at the time, and he says it took a week to restore order down there.

The book only says that the copilot was "well entertained" by some RAF guys. Though Colonel Cindy Moreau (CO, 93rd BW at Castle AFB) told me when 512 was dedicated at Castle Air Museum, that the copilot spent a lot of time in bed-and she wasn't sleeping. Given the pressure at times she was under to "entertain" various warlords (and she had to at least twice), some enjoyable time in the sack certainly was well overdue. And Colonel Moreau doesn't blame the copilot at all. She said that if that was her, she'd do the same thing if necessary.

Well, the PLDP looks like it's in control of Mexico City. The MexGov has fled for parts unknown, though if they're planning on getting out, they'd better have alternative plans, the sea route is blocked courtesy of the USN, the air route is also blocked because of the no-fly zone that's being enforced, and by land...the roads to Guatamala are in rebel territory. Nothing yet on when the PLDP is ready to listen to us on terms, but they'll talk, once they finish shooting the "enemies of the state" in Mexico City.....

Wolfman

Here's hoping they're inclined to be reasonable... if they're not so inclined... well, I have my squadron ready to go down and "convince" them to be reasonable.

Matt Wiser

So are we in 419: we haven't hit any infrastructure targets like power plants and the like, but that can change if the new government is less than reasonable. If they prove obstinate, well, they can see how they like it in the dark....

TheMann

I'm not sure folks, but I think one of my F-22 drivers may have sent the Mexican government to see God. One of my guys shot down a Aeromexico IL-96 that attempted to run out of Mexico City's airport. He and three wingmen called him over the guard channel asking his intentions and he didn't respond, but rather tried to dive and run in the big beast. The pilots stayed with him for a few while we checked ICAO for any Mexico City passenger flights. The IL-96 then tried to ram two of the F-22 guys, who brought him down with Sdewinders. Hopefully we'll know soon......

Matt Wiser

If we hear the PLDP saying that a planeload of "Enemies of the State" crashed, then we'll know who it was. Maybe your guy nailed a leftie bug-out instead (to be hoped for)....

Mann, strange war, isn't it? A lot different from the last time, wouldn't you say? For us, flying mostly CAP or armed recon, and hitting the bar at the La Paz Sheraton is a far cry from last time. (We haven't moved from the tent city at LeMay, but we've practically adopted the bar and pool at the Sheraton). God, after PRAIRIE FIRE got going, moving every two weeks it seemed, tent cities, MREs until the kitchen got set up, sometimes sleeping under your plane because you got there before the engineers did to build the tent city, and the occasional attempt by ComBloc SOF to sneak onto the field, and the cry "Sappers in the Wire!" (an old Vietnam saying), and grabbing the CAR-15 or MP-5 you carried, just in case.

Oh, Mann, the Scott brothers do want a one-star to show up at the premiere of Wings of the Phantom, I did give them your name, so don't be surprised if you get an invite. And another movie due to start shooting is Down in China: The story of Baron 55. With Jennifer Garner, Dwayne Johnson (the Rock) in the role of copilot and pilot. They start shooting in the Philippines in a month or so. I've also been promised director's cut DVDs of Wings of the Phantom to all the aircrews who flew during the filming, so that'll be a good thing to give to the guys.

DD951

Wolfman said: ↑
My pilot and I had our fair share of close encounters with SA-6/57mm set-ups during the war. The Reds got quite fiendish in how they would hide them, or not, if they were using one set-up as bait to draw in Iron Hand assets while a second set-up blew them to Hell. Well, we learned quickly enough, and the Resistance got very good at blowing them up once they found out about how these sites were giving their flying friends grief.
During the fighting in Vancouver, AD sites, especially SA-6/57mm AAA combos generally had the second highest priority as NGFS targets, right after fire support missions being called in by those on the ground. Guess I now know why that particular set-up had such a high priority assigned.

Matt Wiser said: ↑
If we hear the PLDP saying that a planeload of "Enemies of the State" crashed, then we'll know who it was. Maybe your guy nailed a leftie bug-out instead (to be hoped for)....
Either way, we can only hope, even if it would have been nice to get some sort of accounting for their crimes in court....

thepenguin

Matt Wiser said: ↑
If we hear the PLDP saying that a planeload of "Enemies of the State" crashed, then we'll know who it was. Maybe your guy nailed a leftie bug-out instead (to be hoped for)....

Mann, strange war, isn't it? A lot different from the last time, wouldn't you say? For us, flying mostly CAP or armed recon, and hitting the bar at the La Paz Sheraton is a far cry from last time. (We haven't moved from the tent city at LeMay, but we've practically adopted the bar and pool at the Sheraton). God, after PRAIRIE FIRE got going, moving every two weeks it seemed, tent cities, MREs until the kitchen got set up, sometimes sleeping under your plane because you got there before the engineers did to build the tent city, and the occasional attempt by ComBloc SOF to sneak onto the field, and the cry "Sappers in the Wire!" (an old Vietnam saying), and grabbing the CAR-15 or MP-5 you carried, just in case.

Oh, Mann, the Scott brothers do want a one-star to show up at the premiere of Wings of the Phantom, I did give them your name, so don't be surprised if you get an invite. And another movie due to start shooting is Down in China: The story of Baron 55. With Jennifer Garner, Dwayne Johnson (the Rock) in the role of copilot and pilot. They start shooting in the Philippines in a month or so. I've also been promised director's cut DVDs of Wings of the Phantom to all the aircrews who flew during the filming, so that'll be a good thing to give to the guys.
I remember that. We had it good at McConnell, because they had to fix the runways, and by the time they did that, the South Africans were there. But after that and base-hopping...yeah I had a down sleeping bag behind my seat, a .30-30 paratroop carbine in the sleeping bag, and I wore a Colt M1911, and a Smith and Wesson .45 ACP revolver with three mags for the 1911 and four speedloaders for the Smith. I still have those guns and I go hunting with the carbine. I've been doing armed recon since the PLDP took Mexico City, and I have to admit, it's kind of depressing when you come back with everything still hanging on your jet. Hopefully our targeting guys can find some dump points where we can just drop and see things go "boom." Otherwise, I'll have to see if we can use Luke's range or China Lake.

From page 98

thepenguin

Hey Matt, we still doing those regular RIVET JOINT flights?

Matt Wiser

RIVET JOINT? Oh yes, we still are: Cuba before the invasion, Mexico (ditto), Rump USSR (still) and a few other places. But I'm not in SAC, so all I know is what's in the public domain. Even my intel officer has no "need to know."

American Young Communist League? The ALA's Youth Arm.....lots of those folks either are upstanding citizens, or are still in 6X9 cells. It was more of a cult than a organization, IIRC. And run like one, too. At least the adults who ran it have paid, either by doing time, or going to the gallows.

Anything new on the airliner that got splashed? There's a pool going around the various units at LeMay AFB: either MexGov bigwigs trying to get out, lefties trying to escape, or a mix of the two.

statichaos

Matt Wiser said: ↑
American Young Communist League? The ALA's Youth Arm.....lots of those folks either are upstanding citizens, or are still in 6X9 cells. It was more of a cult than a organization, IIRC. And run like one, too. At least the adults who ran it have paid, either by doing time, or going to the gallows.
Using the word "cult" shows that you're either an agent of the imperialist capitalist system, or a feebleminded tool of it. Once they open up the universities and high schools to the viewpoints of Marx, Engles, Che, and Castro again, the youth of this great country will be awakened to the truth once more.

Until then, I pity you.

thepenguin

statichaos said: ↑
Using the word "cult" shows that you're either an agent of the imperialist capitalist system, or a feebleminded tool of it. Once they open up the universities and high schools to the viewpoints of Marx, Engles, Che, and Castro again, the youth of this great country will be awakened to the truth once more.

Until then, I pity you.
I've noticed we're using Prowlers for intel collection in Mexico. Please, please tell me this guy is posting up from Mexico. My buddy's ACR is itching to do something. They're in garrison at Chihuahua.

statichaos

Pah. Catch me if you can, lackey.

Ming777

Sigh....you know they can trace IP addresses and wifi signal now.
Now, my family moved to the Lower Mainland, BC from HK when I was a kid, for economic reasons. Back then, they just finished repairing the more critical infrastructure and began to rebuild the SkyTrain system that was hit by the Ruskies. Life was alright, course Vancouver still bears some scars from the siege. Sigh...none of the historical buildings lasted. Old City Hall, the Fairmont, the Woodsworth. All memories now...
Anyways, I'm studying at UBC under the ROTP. Lifes okay...

DD951

statichaos said: ↑
Pah. Catch me if you can, lackey.
Actually, the NSA and a few other agencies have very good setups to trace IP addresses, wi-fi signals, phone calls, etc., and we've caught more than a few traitors and war criminals that way, so don't be surprised if you're contacted shortly by representatives of your local FBI field office (or someone who plays by a rather harder set of rules if you're in another country.) Have a nice day (because you don't have very many of those kind left....)

DD951

At sea, I'd say that the threats we considered most dangerous, especially on a ship with marginal AAW & ASW capabilities such as mine, were submarines, those big anti-ship missiles (and the platforms that carried them), mines and aircraft (not so much the occasional fighter-bomber, but either large quantities of them or the bombers that could carry the big anti-ship missiles, which is why the gun destroyers were generally paired with a missile ship (generally there were 2 Forrest Sherman DDG conversions and 2 Perrys in theater during the BC campaign).

BigWillyG

DD951 said: ↑
At sea, I'd say that the threats we considered most dangerous, especially on a ship with marginal AAW & ASW capabilities such as mine, were submarines, those big anti-ship missiles (and the platforms that carried them), mines and aircraft (not so much the occasional fighter-bomber, but either large quantities of them or the bombers that could carry the big anti-ship missiles, which is why the gun destroyers were generally paired with a missile ship (generally there were 2 Forrest Sherman DDG conversions and 2 Perrys in theater during the BC campaign).
My ship hated mines and aircraft. Lucky for us missile small craft were too small for subs to waste anything on but anything else was nasty.

Matt Wiser

It seems the postwar cleanup of lefties hasn't gone far enough. Find this idiot and make an example of him. A lot of good men and women died twenty-plus years ago defending this country from the ComBloc and those of his ilk. And the MIA list is still a long one: I've got several squadron mates from 335 still MIA. I know they're dead, but until their remains are returned to their families, they're still unaccounted for. God bless, guys; we still drink to you at the O-Club.

Wolfman

Matt Wiser said: ↑
It seems the postwar cleanup of lefties hasn't gone far enough. Find this idiot and make an example of him. A lot of good men and women died twenty-plus years ago defending this country from the ComBloc and those of his ilk. And the MIA list is still a long one: I've got several squadron mates from 335 still MIA. I know they're dead, but until their remains are returned to their families, they're still unaccounted for. God bless, guys; we still drink to you at the O-Club.
When you find this moron, put a couple of rounds through his head for me, will ya, Matt?

statichaos

Nice try, imperialists. I'm on the move once again, and your jackals didn't manage to find me. By the time they trace this one, I'll be gone again.


Arise ye pris'ners of starvation
Arise ye wretched of the earth
For justice thunders condemnation
A better world's in birth!
No more tradition's chains shall bind us
Arise, ye slaves, no more in thrall;
The earth shall rise on new foundations
We have been naught we shall be all.

'Tis the final conflict
Let each stand in his place
The International Union
Shall be the human race.

We want no condescending saviors
To rule us from their judgement hall
We workers ask not for their favors
Let us consult for all.
To make the theif disgorge his booty
To free the spirit from its cell
We must ourselves decide our duty
We must decide and do it well.

The law oppresses us and tricks us,
The wage slave system drains our blood;
The rich are free from obligation,
The laws the poor delude.
Too long we've languished in subjection,
Equality has other laws;
"No rights", says she "without their duties,
No claims on equals without cause."

Behold them seated in their glory
The kings of mine and rail and soil!
What have you read in all their story,
But how they plundered toil?
Fruits of the workers' toil are buried
In strongholds of the idle few
In working for their restitution
The men will only claim their due.

We toilers from all fields united
Join hand in hand with all who work;
The earth belongs to us, the workers,
No room here for the shirk.
How many on our flesh have fattened!
But if the norsome birds of prey
Shall vanish from the sky some morning
The blessed sunlight then will stay.

thepenguin

I'm thinking he's in Mexico. Any takers?

TheMann

To the Commie Apologist: I hope you are aware that this USAF Brigadier General has reported your IP to the Federal Bureau of Investigation and the USAF Security Police, and you'll be getting a visit from some very unfriendly people in the near future.

I also have many friends lost in that war. My best friend is in a wheelchair after a SAM shot his plane down over Alberta. His brother died on USS Yorktown. All of us know people who died fighting or from the Soviet terror.

Panzerfaust 150

Yo Comrade,
I interrogated people like you...and we had our hands full keeping civies and other EPWs from tearing your throats out. My advice..accept the fact that your system lost. That it's blood-soaked reign of terror is over and let the dead you and your friends made sleep in peace. In my day, you'd have been packed off to Bakersfield, given a short trial, and done a dance on the end of a short rope. Now? Count yourself luckier that DoJ handles this stuff.

I heard about the possibility Col. Moreau was coming to speak..Her take on her crew's trek across China will be interesting, but with the series that was in the Plain Dealer recently, about SAC, I suspect there's going to be a lot of questions from faculty and students about that.

statichaos

You know what I was doing in WWIII? I'll tell you: I was going to high school.

I was what they used to call a red diaper baby. My parents were leftists, university professors, totally harmless. They preached Marx and even had sympathy for the deviant Mao, but never lifted a finger against the bourgeois system that oppressed the workers around them. No, instead they taught their classes and kept their mouths shut, then went to their socialist meetings at night to bemoan the plight of the common man.

When the attempted liberation happened, we weren't one of the states hit. This meant that the jackbooted thugs of the imperialist oppressors of our local FBI and police forces were able to target and round up anyone with sympathy towards the freedom-loving people of the Soviet Union. They died during the struggle for freedom, killed by their fellow inmates in the internment camp brainwashed into believing that they would gain some sort of favor with their jailers.

Every blow that the Soviets struck against you was not enough. Your system of oppression and racism will be repaid a hundredfold, nay, a thousandfold.

Nikephoros

Wolfman said: ↑
When you find this moron, put a couple of rounds through his head for me, will ya, Matt?
OOC: Let's draw the line here. Let's not take this too far.

Misses the Cold War

statichaos said: ↑
You know what I was doing in WWIII? I'll tell you: I was going to high school.

I was what they used to call a red diaper baby. My parents were leftists, university professors, totally harmless. They preached Marx and even had sympathy for the deviant Mao, but never lifted a finger against the bourgeois system that oppressed the workers around them. No, instead they taught their classes and kept their mouths shut, then went to their socialist meetings at night to bemoan the plight of the common man.
Odd, I knew quite a few like your folks who were in Texas and in the Southwest...the Soviets didn't give them much of a shrift either. Don't believe me? I saw the mass graves...I did post-war war crimes stuff. I saw ugly kid that I pray to god you never, ever have to see in your lifetime. Read up on Sergei Khvostov..I met him...and everytime I think of him...I have to take a damn shower.

When the attempted liberation happened, we weren't one of the states hit. This meant that the jackbooted thugs of the imperialist oppressors of our local FBI and police forces were able to target and round up anyone with sympathy towards the freedom-loving people of the Soviet Union. They died during the struggle for freedom, killed by their fellow inmates in the internment camp brainwashed into believing that they would gain some sort of favor with their jailers.
Ok, that's sad...then again...I know a professor who's was a member of the Spartacist Youth League and some other fairly left wing causes who lived in the Austin burbs...she lost her mother because the Soviets shot her for being a "federal official" (She worked for the post office as a letter carrier). Bliss fought for three years as a partisan. And we stay in touch...She's a sociology prof at UT-Austin. Another person I know is a Prof who used to teach at CUNY-Brooklyn...after the Soviets glassed Manhattan (and my grandfather, along with most of my wife's family...) he got a job at UVA...he was a harmless guy like your parents..but he was a neat guy who'd taught history for thirty years and used to invite us vets over to ask us what it was like. He'd wanted to fight..they'd nuked his home..but they didn't take him. His son went...and died in Houston with the Marines. He was proud of his kid...but he still believed in Marx..just not the "Soviet perversion" of it. A bunch of us protected him when some damn Rednecks tried to burn down his house.

Every blow that the Soviets struck against you was not enough. Your system of oppression and racism will be repaid a hundredfold, nay, a thousandfold.
No you don't kid..you don't mean it...and if you do..then your soul's pretty damn empty if you ask me. Take it from someone who's seen a hell of a lot..People are people and the great many the world over simply want to get on with the business of living. Shame some scared old men in the Politburo didn't feel that way.

Nikephoros

If anything, the war only served to hurt the cause of Marxism. Who wants to be referred to as a Marxist these days?

statichaos

Nikephoros said: ↑
If anything, the war only served to hurt the cause of Marxism. Who wants to be referred to as a Marxist these days?
Anyone who sees the dehumanizing process of capitalism in all of its glory.

From page 100

Pyro

Likewise, I'm sure. It's a pity such a mind was wasted on an ideology based on envy and avarice. It was pretty clear that the USSR was going to collapse under its own weight one way or another, they gambled whatever they had left and lost.

Ming777

Hmmm, a few of my older Officers would like to speak with you, youn troll (not you Pyro.). My major knew most of the people the Commies slaughtered at Comox. You know, I pulled a few strings. Look forward to a visit from JTF 2 and Delta Force...

statichaos

Pyro said: ↑
Likewise, I'm sure. It's a pity such a mind was wasted on an ideology based on envy and avarice. It was pretty clear that the USSR was going to collapse under its own weight one way or another, they gambled whatever they had left and lost.
Envy? Avarice? For nearly 70 years before the liberation wars, the Soviet Union had been beset by enemies both domestic and foreign while the United States lay untouched across the ocean. How dare you judge them? How dare you judge a people who, with little more than cunning and some arms, managed to overthrow the cruel despot Tsar Nicholas? How dare you insult the tens of millions who died in the fields and cities of Russia in their successful attempt to drive the monsters of fascism back across the Eastern Front? How dare you sneer at those who follow an ideology of fairness, freedom, and equality for all people?

You sat fat and happy in your homes, able to pick and choose your conflicts, overthrowing governments in Central and South America to suit the whims of your corporate masters, putting your sticky fingers in pies on every continent, and intervening with the CIA whenever someone even CONSIDERED nationalizing important public resources, and you dare accuse the SOVIETS of greed and avarice?

I should no longer be astounded by such displays of arrogance, but Americans still manage to shock me.

statichaos

Ming777 said: ↑
Hmmm, a few of my older Officers would like to speak with you, youn troll (not you Pyro.). My major knew most of the people the Commies slaughtered at Comox. You know, I pulled a few strings. Look forward to a visit from JTF 2 and Delta Force...
Yes, the American way: "We don't like what you're saying, so we'll blow you up." Again, capitalist pig, please catch me if you can.

Ming777

Sigh....are you that dense?!?!? We are traced your location and we are tracking you as of now. Remember, every post you make has been traced and trangulated to you exact position. Oh and you know that neighbor of yours, the one who always says hello on the street outside your home every day? Well.....

Nikephoros

OOC: I think this is going far enough.

statichaos

Heh. Nice try, but you gave yourself away in the last post.

OOC: Okay, posting in the style of this guy is making me to to some VERY STRANGE places in my brain.

Ming777

OCC: sorry about that, couldn't resist. statichaos, no offence.

IC: And what I meant was that neighbor has been reporting your locations for the past few days.

Pyro

statichaos said: ↑
Envy? Avarice? For nearly 70 years before the liberation wars, the Soviet Union had been beset by enemies both domestic and foreign while the United States lay untouched across the ocean. How dare you judge them? How dare you judge a people who, with little more than cunning and some arms, managed to overthrow the cruel despot Tsar Nicholas? How dare you insult the tens of millions who died in the fields and cities of Russia in their successful attempt to drive the monsters of fascism back across the Eastern Front? How dare you sneer at those who follow an ideology of fairness, freedom, and equality for all people?

You sat fat and happy in your homes, able to pick and choose your conflicts, overthrowing governments in Central and South America to suit the whims of your corporate masters, putting your sticky fingers in pies on every continent, and intervening with the CIA whenever someone even CONSIDERED nationalizing important public resources, and you dare accuse the SOVIETS of greed and avarice?

I should no longer be astounded by such displays of arrogance, but Americans still manage to shock me.
And it astounds me how you glossed over Stalin's purges and the mass starvation he inflicted in the Ukraine that killed who knows how many million people before the Second World War. Let's not forget the KGB's ops around Asia, the Middle East, and Africa. As much as you espouse the so-called ideology of "fairness, freedom, and equality". All Lenin and Trotsky cared about was power and soothing their own egos and Stalin was genocidal maniac on par with Adolf Hilter. All the communists were, and continue to be, are a bunch of conniving weasels that steal what they envy.

That being said, I have more important things to do than argue with another brainwashed Marxist drone. Notably cataloguing the REAL history of the war and not some Red's perverted little fantasy.

OOC: ...and I'm done. Good night y'all.

statichaos

Ming777 said: ↑
OCC: sorry about that, couldn't resist. statichaos, no offence.

IC: And what I meant was that neighbor has been reporting your locations for the past few days.

OOC: None taken, but I see the point of toning down the violence in some of the rhetoric.

IC: Amazing, and I thought that neighbors reporting on each other was supposed to be one of the nasty things that the dirty commies did, or at least that's what I read in American books while growing up.

Interesting that you assume that I have a neighbor, or that I'm staying in one place for more than one night at a time.

statichaos

Pyro said: ↑
And it astounds me how you glossed over Stalin's purges and the mass starvation he inflicted in the Ukraine that killed who knows how many million people before the Second World War. Let's not forget the KGB's ops around Asia, the Middle East, and Africa. As much as you espouse the so-called ideology of "fairness, freedom, and equality". All Lenin and Trotsky cared about was power and soothing their own egos and Stalin was genocidal maniac on par with Adolf Hilter. All the communists were, and continue to be, are a bunch of conniving weasels to steal what they envy.
Stalin, his excesses, and his cult of personality were all renounced by the Soviet Union. He could have been a great man (witness his bold leadership during WWII), but he sadly began to think of himself as greater than the cause. The rest of your comments about other Soviet leaders could be said about any revolutionary throughout history.

Pyro

OOC: Oh yeah, and before I call it a night. Just wanted to say it was a blast "sparring" with your counterpart, statichaos.

Before I forget, the Lethbridge Air Show is own August 21 & 22. I already have the vacation time booked. Hope to see you there.

statichaos

OOC: You, too! After having to write from a scary right-wing perspective in my TL for so long, it's an interesting change to write from a scary left-wing perspective.

TheMann

Matt Wiser said: ↑
Hey Mann, did your invite to the premiere of Wings of the Phantom arrive?
I did, my friend. Chinese Theatre in Hollywood, damn. I'll have to get the AF to clear me taking the Raptor over, I think. I got a call just before I left for Texas from the guy who plays me in the movie, Lucas Black. Nice guy, though I hope he worked the accent off before his role in the movie.

Matt Wiser said: ↑
You guys enjoying Texas hospitality at Goodfellow?
You better believe it. I'm getting a bit worried about fitting into my flight suit if I keep eating like I have been. We're all staying on the base here, but the locals have been keeping a whole bunch of charcoal grills going 15 hours a day, and making sure we get the best food in the country. The Governor of Texas and her family paid us a visit yesterday, too. One of her granddaughters was hitting on one of Raptor drivers all night. The Governor is a genuinely nice person, too.

One of the locals is originally from Monterrey, staunchly anti-communist though. He's in a wheelchair from a bullet in the spine some time back (apparently he fought for the resistance in the war), but he's genuinely happy to see us. He's a painter of some renown, and he made a big painting of 352nd Wing planes from a picture taken some back in NC, but a Texas background. The line underneath reads "To the brave men and women of the 352nd Wing, United States Air Force: We Believe in You." That's going on the wall of my office back at Seymour-Johnson, you can bank on that. I paid the guy back by getting a big print of a F-22, and signing it "You have done us a great honor, and we thank you, sir. Signed, Brigadier General Adrian "Superbird" Faulkner, commanding officer, 352nd Wing, United States Air Force." My pilots here all signed it, too.

Matt Wiser said: ↑
At least here in La Paz, the beach at the Sheraton is good, the water's warm, and the tourists and locals are glad to see us. There's a popular bumper sticker going around since statehood was official and this little war got going-it's in both English and Spanish: "Jet Noise: The Sound of Freedom"
Yeah, I see a lot of that sticker on cars around here, too, in both languages. You always get the feeling that those who suffered from the Reds are always happy to see us around?

Matt Wiser said: ↑
Still nothing yet on the plane's occupants, though the PLDP told the CNN crew that either "Enemies of the Mexican State" or "Unwelcome Foreign Nationals" were on board. Or both.
Hmmm. What to infer from that one, I don't quite know.

I'm rolling too, a Mexican Army Infantry division is headed towards the Marines at Veracruz. Seems like my guy musta not got the Mexican bigshots, because otherwise where the hell did they get the balls to start fighting back now? A Royal Air Force Sentinel picked them up headed towards the Marines. I don't think so, punks......lots of SDBs for this one, I suspect.

TheMann

Pyro said: ↑
Before I forget, the Lethbridge Air Show is own August 21 & 22. I already have the vacation time booked. Hope to see you there.
Hmmm. Between Victory Day and the Wings of the Phantom premiere, I'm gonna be moving quite a bit......oh, and my guys got called out to go to RIAT, too. That's gonna be fun, I get to go to Great Britain again. I'll see if I can get up to Canada for one.

Ming777 said: ↑
Hmmm, a few of my older Officers would like to speak with you, youn troll (not you Pyro.). My major knew most of the people the Commies slaughtered at Comox. You know, I pulled a few strings. Look forward to a visit from JTF 2 and Delta Force...
Did you get him?

And if not, is he anywhere near Goodfellow AFB in Texas or LeMay AFB in Baja California?

Matt Wiser

Got a little break: the MexGov seems to want to go down fighting-my intel officer said that a radio station in Acapulco broadcast a defiant message from the MexGov, vowing to "fight to the end against the invaders and the traitors." Guess that airliner was full of lefties and some mid-level MexGov folks.....anyway, haven't been flying this hard since the last days in Texas twenty-plus years ago. Back then we didn't have much night vision, but now....with LANTIRN, the F-15E flies just as good at night as in the daytime. We had the Weasel Vipers go in ahead of us, killing the SA-6s and ZSU-23-4s, and then we got to work. Mavericks and either CBU-87s or Rockeyes on tanks and APCs, while Mark-82s go for the soft-skinned stuff. We've got four-ships going every 10 minutes from all three Wings, and I've got another one going in ten minutes, so wish us good luck and good hunting.

Hey Mann, looks like we'll be doing two shows, plus the movie premiere.
The director's cut DVD will be given to the aircrews there.

Hope someone finds this ComBloc apologist and takes care of him-one way or another. I'd sure like to know where this guy was during the war. Maybe he was like that UCLA Prof now sitting in a Federal Lockup in Miami..somewhere out of the country and taking it easy while the bullets were flying.

thepenguin

Hell, for that matter, is he near Holloman? Just got back from Hermosillo. Knocked out SAM tracks and the ZSU 23mm tracks. I think I literally saved Matt's ass whacking that one Shilka with a HARM. My other Viper Weasels did work too. Now I'm on the hot pit waiting to see if we're going to Veracruz to help out the Devil Dogs (I told my crew chief to have a laptop waiting ). I'm going to Lethbridge. Me, Col. Franklin, Col. Jenkins, and Lt. Col. Perkins (he finally made Light Colonel ) are going to be there with our planes. Then it's on to MAPLE FLAG. I'm commander of the wing now, the CO bought it after a clot dislodged and caused a stroke. He was fine before that, just rolled out after an attack on that Flanker base then he just nosed in. You ever see a car driving down the road and then suddenly veer off the road? Just like that. He wasn't hit. There was no air defenses in the area and we took care of the flying stuff when we did the prelim air strikes.

Matt Wiser

That was you? Glad you were down there: two Shilkas (ZSU-23-4) were getting frisky: one of them had Kelly Ann Ray locked up, and one had me in his sights, when somebody blew them to pieces. Expect some "liquid refreshment" via FedEx in a few days.... One of the embeds with VIII Corps (14th ACR) was saying the Army was hoping some of the MexGov armor would survive all the Air Force attention: they haven't had any action since they rolled into Hermosillo. Three hops last night, and I finally got some sleep about 0430. Back on the schedule about 1200, so there's more targets to service on Hwy 15, it appears. The 352nd guys at LeMay (the old "Blue Nosed Bastards of Bodney" of WW II fame) have been busy, along with Lisa's 366th. Kara led her 390th TFS (the Wild Boars) up there, and she had three sorties last night, which seems to be the average for everyone. The maintenance folks have been giving us a 30-minute turnaround, so everyone's been busy.

JN1

I'd love to invite our new commie friend to our next HSF Association reunion this year. After he explains his point of view to us he can join us down at the firing range; of course he might find the later a bit painful seeing as we'll be filling him with 7.62mm NATO rounds.

TheMann,
I'm planning to make a trip to the RIAT this year, so I'll look you up.

From page 102

TheMann

Matt Wiser said: ↑
I don't think so, Penguin; unless there's a few down Acapulco way, that should be it. The MiGs and Sukhois here (somebody claimed an Su-7 on Day two, I think) have all either been shot out of the sky or destroyed on the ground. Acapulco's the Navy's AO, so I imagine Nimitz and Carl Vinson may still have some work to do. Anyway, that armored division headed up to Hermosillo has been chewed up, and I doubt there'll be much left for VIII Corps to take care of. Anyhow, one of my reservists with the 419th works for a beer distributor in Idaho Falls, so he'll handle the delivery. (He's one of my maintenance officers at the moment)
Yeah, I think considering how many Mexican AF planes have been shot down, I don't think there is much left. We haven't seen anything since those MiG-21s I shot down. One of my F-16 crews dropped an ancient Mexican C-130, but other than that, nothing. My brother's CVN (USS Midway, CVN-74) is off Acapulco, and they got a whole crapload of Mexican AF MiG-21s and MiG-23s on the ground there, and haven't seen much airborne since then. Salem and St. Paul have been busy, however, because Mexican Army trucks with AShMs have been firing all over the place, he says. Recon birds have been providing targets for the heavy cruisers, which have been blasting at anything that the recon guys are sending them.

Matt Wiser said: ↑
Same here: they don't want me using my F-15E for the Hollywood trip, so I'll take my F-4 for a little trip to California. I can use the Strike Eagle the next day, so I go from the Van Nuys ANG base back to Hill, pick up the Beagle and my WSO, and then head to the East Coast, and from there across the Pond.
Pretty much the same deal here, too. I'm taking that custom 777 to Wright-Patterson to pick up the F-4, then on to California. I'm also landing an Van Nuys ANG, then on the way home I'm making a stop at Tinker AFB for a refuel, then on to Seymour-Johnson. Another pilot is then taking the F-4 back to Ohio, while I grab my F-22 and head out. I'm stopping at Goose Bay in Labrador and then again in Iceland on the way to the UK.

Matt Wiser said: ↑
According to the Frenchmen, McAlister is one of the names they checked out. The body matches the passport pic....Seems the bodies the French TV guys found all got sucked out before impact-which explains why they're recognizable. Unless there's others, the others are all believed burned beyond recognition or are otherwise unrecognizable. They'll have to do full DNA on 'em to get the necessary IDs and check people off the wanted list.
Ah, good, so he's probably dead, we'll just need to get DNA to confirm it. I'm gonna be plenty happy to tell my two Raptor crews that. I imagine my family up in Seattle is gonna be happy to hear that animal is good and dead, too, as will the families of those who died in the amphib attempt. Red Andy can explain his misdeeds to God.

TheMann

DD951 said: ↑
'Red Andy' McAllister- I remember that bastard quite well. Long time obnoxious commie gadfly before the war, person of interest in the firebombing of Clark Hall (UW's ROTC building) in the 1960s (although not enough evidence to support charges), and general PITA. Once, back in early 1984, when I was earning a bit of extra cash by working part-time as a photographer for UW's student paper, I had to cover a speech he gave on campus- what an arrogant, crazy, and idiotic jackass- guy talked like he was a mixture of the SDS, Weathermen, and the SLA radicals of the 1960s, but not actually willing to get his hands dirty in practicing what he preached, and spouted conspiracy theories that made LaRouche sound halfway sane. The poor reporter who had to write the story ended up having to write several drafts before coming up with something that didn't look it belonged with the editorials or on the humor page.


I remember him from my days in Seattle, too. He was a maniac then, and truly believed most of the crap he spewed - and worse still, some others did too. One of them broke into my father's home shortly before the war broke out, saying he wanted to "teach a lesson to the defenders of capitalist exploitation." Dad was there at the time, and he put a load of 12-gauge buckshot through his lower leg with his Remington 870. The police never gave my dad any grief for it either, though I figure the fact that both of his kids were fighter pilots probably had something to do with it. Red Andy's sister also got away after the amphib stunt, but legend has it that her attempt to get away got "interfered with" by some guys north of Seattle, because her car was found in Bellingham, and no sign of her ever turned up in Vancouver or Mexico, like she dropped off the face of the Earth.

DD951 said: ↑
Anyway, we were kind of surprised when he turned out to be heavily involved in recruiting and operating auxiliary forces and terrorist cells, as we didn't think he had the balls or the brains to pull that off at the time.


Yeah, I was surprised to hear that too when Dad let know about it. We all thought he was a stupid loudmouth with an attitude problem and seriously warped ideology. When we heard that his merry band of lunatics tried to help the Soviets land in Seattle, and killed a bunch of Seattle PD and Washington state troopers in the process, that changed. Most of his guys got chewed up by the Washington NG, though. Serves him right.

DD951 said: ↑
Some of the groups involved at Pt. Roberts as well as that terrorist cell responsible for bombing those schools and hospitals which I helped prosecute that I mentioned a couple months ago were among his handiwork. He was one of those who disappeared after Vancouver was retaken from the Soviets, and thought to have been killed in the fighting but ended up finding their way into the ratline to Mexico; otherwise he would have been near the top of the FBI's 10 Most Wanted List for operations designed to kill lots of children and hospital patients that he set up. In retrospect, his apparent insanity was a good cover story, and a lot of us wondered if he wasn't one of those KGB deep penetration sleeper agents with orders to facilitate civil unrest, terrorism, acts of sabotage, assist Spetznaz, and set up arms caches in the event of war between the US & the USSR. Well, good riddance to the SOB, and at least the taxpayers won't have to foot the bill to have him tried & hanged.


Yeah, I imagine it'll be nice when news of his demise makes it to Seatown, they'll probably be good and happy to know he's dead. I knew of his work in the bombing at Seattle Children's Hospital. That stunt more than anything him in, because after that any of his supporters who were not insane didn't want to be associated with blowing up a Children's Hospital. (I do also remember my father telling me that after that attack, the local authorities all put him on the shoot to kill list, at least for a while, and that the guys at the plant in Renton where he was working named four B-52s on the line after four of the kids who died there, which the AF for all the obvious reasons did not object to.) I just wish somebody had been able to look into his eyes and ask him if he was proud of what he had done before he died. But, he's gone now, and as I said, he can explain his misdeeds to God.

DD951 said: ↑
Well, it's pretty hard to find any sort of decent single malt scotch for a reasonable price here- a bottle of Laphroaig 10 yr. is $165 before state taxes kick in (you don't want to know what sort of bidding war goes on in the rare event anything older or higher quality reaches the stores), and even the mass market blended stuff is pretty pricey- a fifth of Johnny Walker Black Label retails for about $80. (OOC- the most expensive item I saw in a state liquor store a couple years ago was a 750-ml bottle of Johnny Walker Blue Label for $210, liquor taxes included, that bottle of the Black Label is about $50 IRL, IIRC.) Bourbon and Canadian whiskey just aren't the same....
When I was last in Britain, I got my hands on a bottle of Johnnie Walker Gold Label, the REALLY good stuff. I got it for that RAF guy who saved my neck over Arkansas back in the war, and I remember how much that cost me - I won't say how much, but you can probably make educated guesses. Worth it, however, for the guys who may well have made sure I'm still here. Good Single malts are always expensive, but usually its worth the money. I wish somebody could figure how to make that stuff here - I know from experience that the climate in Scotland is not terribly different from Western Washington or the Oregon Coast......

TheMann

Pyro said: ↑
Though there were no shortage of commie sympathizers and traitors, there were also quite a few Marxists opposed to the invasion, notably Prof. Richard Bergsom who you might remember for his book "Behind the Iron Curtain: An Inside Look at the Fall of the Soviet Empire". He used to be with the History Department at UBC, and about as red as one gets but he condemned the invasion as "counterproductive to the revolution". When the Soviets wanted his cooperation, he refused so they shot his wife point-blank in the head in from of him and his young daughter. He spent most of the war in a prison camp but by war's end he dedicated himself to exposing the sham that was the Soviet Union.

As for Bergsom, while he does have some Marxist sympathies, he no longer believes in revolution of anykind and instead helped found the Social Democratic Party of Canada from the remnants of the NDP and some dissenting Liberals. But I will never what he told Peter Mansbridge in an interview when asked out his past as a red: "the cost of revolution in innocent blood is too high and the only purpose of communism is to demean the individual and to justify avarice in the name of the people."
I met Bergsom several years after the war when I was home on R&R, I ran into him while I was visiting UW and he was there as a guest of the Dean of the school of Social Sciences. Him and I wound up chatting for some time, and he was working on his books at the time. I dodn't know that then, but I do know that he insisted on buying me lunch at a local bistro. I asked him if he still believed in the economic system the Soviets proposed, and his reply was an emphatic no, the Soviet system had totally come apart in his eyes. He's not a total capitalist, but his opinion is that the capitalist system should be kept in check by some government. His comment was that "some government is needed to ensure freedom." I also know he wrote that in the preface to Behind the Iron Curtain.

He also told me about his wife being shot in the face in front of his daughter, and he commented after that "Every time I have that awful image come into my mind, I am more glad guys like you are out there, Major." I told him that I am a USAF officer, not a Canadian Forces one, and so he should thank the guys of the Air Command. He responded saying "Every blow struck to them accelerated their demise, so I can still thank you." I had known he was an ex-Red, but I think he's like my cousin-in-law to be, who is an ex-EPW, both saw the failings of communism very clearly and now do not believe in it at all.

Wolfman

TheMann said: ↑
Red Andy's sister also got away after the amphib stunt, but legend has it that her attempt to get away got "interfered with" by some guys north of Seattle, because her car was found in Bellingham, and no sign of her ever turned up in Vancouver or Mexico, like she dropped off the face of the Earth.
I wonder what happened to her... here's hoping she's slaving away in some Arab Sheik's harem...

JimmyRibbitt

DD951 said: ↑
As has this senior Assistant US Attorney, to the Bureau, US Marshall Service, & the Secret Service, and a few contacts of my own within the intelligence community.
How are you going to make sure you have his real location? One's IP address can be desguised through the use of proxies and anonymity services, many of which keep no logs. he could be, say, in Mexico, but be using a proxy on the other side of the world.

It is becuase of this that tracing this leftie may be easier said than done.

JimmyRibbitt

Pah. Catch me if you can, lackey.

You can use things like proxies and anonymity services to hide your real location, but there are hackers like myself who are working on tracing you down. You will be found, sooner or later.

Wolfman

JimmyRibbitt said: ↑
You can use things like proxies and anonymity services to hide your real location, but there are hackers like myself who are working on tracing you down. You will be found, sooner or later.
When you find this leftie moron, let me know so I can send a strike mission his way.

Panzerfaust 150

I doubt it will be that dramatic Wolfman.

Something along the lines of some flashbangs...shattering glass, a couple of gunshots if he gets real stupid and if he survives, having his hooded and ziptied self tossed head first into the back of a black helo or SUV. His next experience will be coming to on the floor of a holding cell in Federal lockup....with some FBI agents waiting to ask him whether or not he's a stupid kid with some silly ideas to be left to rant and rave to the uncaring masses, or does he really mean to do harm?

My bet, just so you know? The former, natural selection and stupidity has weeded out the ranks of the latter some twenty years on.

Wolfman

Aww, damn! I haven't gotten to blow anything up for going on three weeks now... nobody's been stupid enough to light off anything that we can legally bomb.

Pyro

Matt Wiser said: ↑
Hey Pryo, did he ever say how he obtained those documents?
Bergsom never told us how he got the documents or from whom. Likely for the same reason Kalugin's in hiding. In any case, it's still a good thing he acquired them because the civilian side of the USSR during the war is sadly overlooked. The brutality of the Politburo against its own people and the populace is quite chilling.

TheMann

Wolfman said: ↑
I wonder what happened to her... here's hoping she's slaving away in some Arab Sheik's harem...
Not betting on that......it would be nice, but I figure she's probably been in the ground (or at the bottom of Puget Sound) for 20 years plus. No great loss if you ask me.

TheMann

Well, it appears that the war in Mexico is over. The PDLP has asked for a ceasefire and has ordered its troops to put down their guns. 'Bout fucking time, if you ask me.

Matt Wiser

Yep, they were on CNN and the other networks, asking for a cease-fire. How'd we find out? On the way back to LeMay from finishing off that armored division, and we expended everything we took up: Mavericks and CBUs, with Weasel Vipers riding shotgun. Came back and found everyone in a party mood. AWACS didn't tell us, as they wanted us to keep focused on the flight back to LeMay. We got to the Sheraton's Bar after the debrief, and the CNN crew was reporting the cease-fire from Mexico City. The PLDP has agreed to settle the questions of reparations, remaining individuals on the various "wanted" lists, and will return three downed aircrew from recent days via the Red Cross tomorrow. But the current security zone will remain under U.S. control for the time being. They haven't surrendered unconditionally, far from it, and the various rebel groups vow to keep fighting until the PLDP's gone.

Hey Panzerfaust, did Colonel Moreau get in touch with you? She has some interesting stories about EASTERN EXPRESS, but the Moscow mission is still classified. On one of the flights, they were so low over Siberia that they landed at Loring AFB in Maine with pine needles in parts of the airplane. That was the one where they destroyed the Hydro Plant at the Bratsk Dam; and her first as aircraft commander. She's still a good friend of Col. Allision Whitney, the Baron 55 copilot, and on their flights over China, wondered if her friend was still alive down there. Colonel Moreau was at Hickam AFB in Hawaii to meet the crew when they flew back (via JAL-U.S. commercial flights were still few and far between in those early postwar days-but they did fly first class-before getting on a AF C-20 Gulfstream for the trip to the Mainland).

When this cease-fire settles in, the reservists (like us in the 419th) need to be the first to redeploy to home stations. Can't wait for the orders to fly back to Hill. Hopefully, that'll be later in the week. Ah well, until then, we get our "hazardous duty" pay, and since the shooting started, combat pay as well. Too bad it's not tax-free....

They have Maxim in the gift shop in the lobby at the Sheraton, and guess what-they had some pics of Kelly Ann Ray during the movie shoot in Puerto Rico. They had a couple of off days during the shoot, and she was on the beach. Kelly Ann came in and I showed the magazine to her, as I was slightly annoyed. She was furious: someone with a telephoto lens snapped the pics, she thinks. It was a rather tasteless headline, something like "Former POW now beach babe." Kelly Ann wants to go out and blow something (and someone) up right now.

Nikephoros

Not sure what to do with myself. Since I got my college degree a few years ago, people keep wanting to make me an officer.

Just got fired the other day from work. Apparently I wasn't "Harsh enough to leftists". Yeah, whatever.
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TheMann

Nikephoros said: ↑
Not sure what to do with myself. Since I got my college degree a few years ago, people keep wanting to make me an officer.

Just got fired the other day from work. Apparently I wasn't "Harsh enough to leftists". Yeah, whatever.
What's your degree in, Nike?

Nikephoros

TheMann said: ↑
What's your degree in, Nike?
OOC: I don't even know what college degrees there are. Never been to college.

TheMann

Matt Wiser said: ↑
They have Maxim in the gift shop in the lobby at the Sheraton, and guess what-they had some pics of Kelly Ann Ray during the movie shoot in Puerto Rico. They had a couple of off days during the shoot, and she was on the beach. Kelly Ann came in and I showed the magazine to her, as I was slightly annoyed. She was furious: someone with a telephoto lens snapped the pics, she thinks. It was a rather tasteless headline, something like "Former POW now beach babe." Kelly Ann wants to go out and blow something (and someone) up right now.
In just my very humble opinion, Kelly Ann is more than a little attractive, but yeah some douche with a telephoto lens is getting a little stupid. And yeah, I'd want to drop a bomb on his car right about then, too. Preferably a 2000lb LGB, just to make him shit himself......

thepenguin

Matt Wiser said: ↑
Yep, they were on CNN and the other networks, asking for a cease-fire. How'd we find out? On the way back to LeMay from finishing off that armored division, and we expended everything we took up: Mavericks and CBUs, with Weasel Vipers riding shotgun. Came back and found everyone in a party mood. AWACS didn't tell us, as they wanted us to keep focused on the flight back to LeMay. We got to the Sheraton's Bar after the debrief, and the CNN crew was reporting the cease-fire from Mexico City. The PLDP has agreed to settle the questions of reparations, remaining individuals on the various "wanted" lists, and will return three downed aircrew from recent days via the Red Cross tomorrow. But the current security zone will remain under U.S. control for the time being. They haven't surrendered unconditionally, far from it, and the various rebel groups vow to keep fighting until the PLDP's gone.

Hey Panzerfaust, did Colonel Moreau get in touch with you? She has some interesting stories about EASTERN EXPRESS, but the Moscow mission is still classified. On one of the flights, they were so low over Siberia that they landed at Loring AFB in Maine with pine needles in parts of the airplane. That was the one where they destroyed the Hydro Plant at the Bratsk Dam; and her first as aircraft commander. She's still a good friend of Col. Allision Whitney, the Baron 55 copilot, and on their flights over China, wondered if her friend was still alive down there. Colonel Moreau was at Hickam AFB in Hawaii to meet the crew when they flew back (via JAL-U.S. commercial flights were still few and far between in those early postwar days-but they did fly first class-before getting on a AF C-20 Gulfstream for the trip to the Mainland).

When this cease-fire settles in, the reservists (like us in the 419th) need to be the first to redeploy to home stations. Can't wait for the orders to fly back to Hill. Hopefully, that'll be later in the week. Ah well, until then, we get our "hazardous duty" pay, and since the shooting started, combat pay as well. Too bad it's not tax-free....

They have Maxim in the gift shop in the lobby at the Sheraton, and guess what-they had some pics of Kelly Ann Ray during the movie shoot in Puerto Rico. They had a couple of off days during the shoot, and she was on the beach. Kelly Ann came in and I showed the magazine to her, as I was slightly annoyed. She was furious: someone with a telephoto lens snapped the pics, she thinks. It was a rather tasteless headline, something like "Former POW now beach babe." Kelly Ann wants to go out and blow something (and someone) up right now.
Set something up at the Luke range. Hell, detach a flight to Holloman and set something up at White Sands . I heard about it as I was climbing the ladder for a CAP. We decided to unload the weapons and do some flying.

Matt Wiser

We don't have any orders yet, though 10th Air Force said that as soon as the cease-fire is signed and the Mexican PLDP government starts doing what they're told, we'll get our orders to go home. But we don't have any flying tomorrow, which is good.

If that'd been Lisa in that spread, I'd be royally pissed. In any event, Kelly Ann is upset that the photographer got some shots of the scars she has on her back and arms. Mann, when you shook hands with her, you probably noticed the rope burns on her arms; Panzerfaust, too. But Lisa and the rest of the 366th had a good laugh when one of the 390th's pilots bought a copy and showed it off. I do agree, Kelly Ann does look good in a Bikini. (I've seen her at the Sheraton's pool)

Anyone hear of anything more advanced found in Mexico other than the expected leftovers? (i.e. advanced anti-tank missiles like the AT-14, SAMs such as the SA-15, T-90s-the updated T-72, etc?) Those would've been a huge surprise.

Nikephoros

Matt Wiser said: ↑
Anyone hear of anything more advanced found in Mexico other than the expected leftovers? (i.e. advanced anti-tank missiles like the AT-14, SAMs such as the SA-15, T-90s-the updated T-72, etc?) Those would've been a huge surprise.
Was recently looking at worldsecurity.com's forums. The rumours flying around there (but consider the source) are talking about T-90s and Mig-31s. Not convinced myself, but something to consider.