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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2016 13:13:33 GMT
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Aug 18, 2016 13:30:12 GMT
That is a long travel by the Imperial Japanese Navy to get to the islands, i would think there are better targets closer to home the can invade.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Aug 18, 2016 13:42:15 GMT
No and No is my view. Possibily a bid to divert British resources, which according to the report worked, and possibly for whatever reason win influence with Argentina. However how would Japan get a MS, let alone one with an hidden force on board, all the way across the Pacific [or Indian Ocean and S Atlantic] without being detected? Especially with the extreme demands on their MS.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Aug 18, 2016 13:46:08 GMT
No and No is my view. Possibily a bid to divert British resources, which according to the report worked, and possibly for whatever reason win influence with Argentina. However how would Japan get a MS, let alone one with an hidden force on board, all the way across the Pacific [or Indian Ocean and S Atlantic] without being detected? Especially with the extreme demands on their MS. It more likely that Argentina going to invade the island than the Japanese.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Aug 18, 2016 14:03:30 GMT
Now that I could see as a possible threat. Argentina would be very exposed to British and or American action. The US wouldn't want WWII being moved to the Americas or Britain distracted at this point. Also if this is say Oct/Nov 41 then very shortly the US and Britain are going to be direct allies in a shooting war. Although the Argentinian government won't know that. Ironically one butterfly from this is that it might just save Force Z as that could possibly be diverted from its path to Malaya to help countering the invasion. Say with some troops from Britain or S Africa for the actual liberation of the islands.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Aug 18, 2016 14:06:19 GMT
Now that I could see as a possible threat. Argentina would be very exposed to British and or American action. The US wouldn't want WWII being moved to the Americas or Britain distracted at this point. Also if this is say Oct/Nov 41 then very shortly the US and Britain are going to be direct allies in a shooting war. Although the Argentinian government won't know that. Ironically one butterfly from this is that it might just save Force Z as that could possibly be diverted from its path to Malaya to help countering the invasion. Say with some troops from Britain or S Africa for the actual liberation of the islands. Well was a example in why Argentina would more likely invade the Falklands than Japan, we do have a treat dedicated to Argentina joining the Axis, but back to topic, the Imperial Japanese Navy will be spotted before the have reached the islands, allowing the Royal Navy to get ready if they have any ships patrolling the islands.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2016 14:53:00 GMT
There's something in this month's 'Britain at War' magazine - certainly seems to have been enough in it for Churchill to divert a garrison of a thousand men to Stanley
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Aug 18, 2016 15:03:32 GMT
There's something in this month's 'Britain at War' magazine - certainly seems to have been enough in it for Churchill to divert a garrison of a thousand men to Stanley Could this simply also be a massage to Argentina, but then again reading it some more i understand why Churchill feared a Japanese invasion of Falkland Islands as according to this article called also Churchill feared Japanese invasion of Falkland IslandsLONDON – Wartime British Prime Minister Winston Churchill ordered troops to the Falkland Islands in 1942 because he feared Japan could invade the far-flung British territory, according to documents at the National Archives in London. He was concerned that Japan might use the islands as a base to disrupt valuable Allied shipping routes around Cape Horn and from Argentina’s River Plate into the South Atlantic. A total of 1,700 soldiers were dispatched from Britain to defend the outpost in this little-known episode of World War II. On April 1, 1942, Churchill, writing to a committee of senior defense officials, stated: “It would be a very serious thing to lose the Falkland Islands to the Japanese and no comfort to say that it would hurt the United States more than ourselves. “The Falkland Islands are very well known, and their loss would be a shock to the whole empire. “They would certainly have to be retaken. The object of the reinforcement would be to make it necessary for the Japanese to extend their attacking force to a tangible size. This might well act as a deterrent.” Britain was anxious to retain the islands as they were the only base for its South Atlantic Fleet. There were also fears that if the Panama Canal was closed, then the route around Cape Horn would become critical for supplies from Australia and New Zealand to Britain. But an examination of the files reveals Britain was slow to wake up to the Japanese threat and some officials were dismissive. Requests for soldiers and weapons were effectively declined until Churchill became involved in January 1942. In August 1941, Britain’s military attache in Argentina urged the War Office to send troops to the Falklands to bolster local defenses. However, London declined, arguing Japan was too far away and afraid of U.S. retribution. A few days after Japan’s attack on Pearl Harbor on Dec. 7, 1941, Esmond Ovey, Britain’s ambassador in Argentina, wrote that the Japanese ambassador had assured the acting president that Japan “would see that the Falklands are returned to Argentina.” Japan was worried Argentina, then neutral, would host U.S. troops and threatened the country with reprisals, the files show. And on Dec. 26, 1941, a secret naval cipher from the Admiralty to the South Atlantic’s commander in chief stated: “The Japanese have given out that they will shortly be running a convoy to Argentina and that they will capture the Falkland Islands and present them to the Argentinians.” Due to overstretch, Britain was initially reluctant to send its own soldiers and in January 1942 Churchill asked Canada for help. But Canada refused and subtle hints to Washington fell on deaf ears. In the end, 1,700 men belonging to the 11th battalion of the West Yorkshire Regiment were sent to the islands. However, as some suspected, the Japanese threat never materialized and by late 1944 they returned home. Jim McAdam, editor of the Falkland Islands Journal, said there are several reasons why Churchill feared a Japanese invasion. “Churchill was very aware of the importance of naval superiority in the South Atlantic, particularly after his First World War experiences,” he said. “When he was Lord of the Admiralty there were two major naval battles: the Falklands and Coronel, which made him realize the importance of the region. “The Panama Canal could be easily blocked, shipping could have to revert to rounding Cape Horn and the Falklands would be a crucial naval base from which to patrol the region. “At the start of the Second World War, German disguised raiders — Hilfskreuzers — were soon operating in the Southern Ocean, capturing and seizing Norwegian whalers and their valuable cargoes. “Churchill’s greatest fear was U-boats and there was real concern that bases could be established around Antarctica and on the southern islands.”
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Aug 18, 2016 15:28:14 GMT
Now that I could see as a possible threat. Argentina would be very exposed to British and or American action. The US wouldn't want WWII being moved to the Americas or Britain distracted at this point. Also if this is say Oct/Nov 41 then very shortly the US and Britain are going to be direct allies in a shooting war. Although the Argentinian government won't know that. Ironically one butterfly from this is that it might just save Force Z as that could possibly be diverted from its path to Malaya to help countering the invasion. Say with some troops from Britain or S Africa for the actual liberation of the islands. Well was a example in why Argentina would more likely invade the Falklands than Japan, we do have a treat dedicated to Argentina joining the Axis, but back to topic, the Imperial Japanese Navy will be spotted before the have reached the islands, allowing the Royal Navy to get ready if they have any ships patrolling the islands. I can't see Japan trying to get warships to the Falklands. Apart from anything else they wouldn't have the fuel. All I can see as possible would be a false flag merchant ship with some troops hidden aboard.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Aug 18, 2016 16:04:51 GMT
Well was a example in why Argentina would more likely invade the Falklands than Japan, we do have a treat dedicated to Argentina joining the Axis, but back to topic, the Imperial Japanese Navy will be spotted before the have reached the islands, allowing the Royal Navy to get ready if they have any ships patrolling the islands. I can't see Japan trying to get warships to the Falklands. Apart from anything else they wouldn't have the fuel. All I can see as possible would be a false flag merchant ship with some troops hidden aboard. Also would Japan giving the islands back to Argentina be a act of war by Argentina or does the United Kingdom no consider it that.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Aug 18, 2016 16:22:24 GMT
I can't see Japan trying to get warships to the Falklands. Apart from anything else they wouldn't have the fuel. All I can see as possible would be a false flag merchant ship with some troops hidden aboard. Also would Japan giving the islands back to Argentina be a act of war by Argentina or does the United Kingdom no consider it that. That is an interesting point. In the Chinese meaning of the word. Given everything else on Britain's plate even Churchill might not be able to press the matter, unless he had clear US support.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Aug 18, 2016 16:28:24 GMT
Also would Japan giving the islands back to Argentina be a act of war by Argentina or does the United Kingdom no consider it that. That is an interesting point. In the Chinese meaning of the word. Given everything else on Britain's plate even Churchill might not be able to press the matter, unless he had clear US support. But the United States is already in the war, they surely would not allow the Japanese to take a island that they could use as a forward operating base, they most likely would respond and deal with it no matter the British responds and also make it clear to Argentina that it would be very unwise to take over the islands.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Aug 18, 2016 16:49:19 GMT
That is an interesting point. In the Chinese meaning of the word. Given everything else on Britain's plate even Churchill might not be able to press the matter, unless he had clear US support. But the United States is already in the war, they surely would not allow the Japanese to take a island that they could use as a forward operating base, they most likely would respond and deal with it no matter the British responds and also make it clear to Argentina that it would be very unwise to take over the islands. Unless the Japanese seize the islands quickly with a sneak attack then almost immediately transfer it to Argentina. It could still be a very poisoned chalice for Argentina but a government could have problems rejecting such an offer.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Aug 18, 2016 16:51:17 GMT
But the United States is already in the war, they surely would not allow the Japanese to take a island that they could use as a forward operating base, they most likely would respond and deal with it no matter the British responds and also make it clear to Argentina that it would be very unwise to take over the islands. Unless the Japanese seize the islands quickly with a sneak attack then almost immediately transfer it to Argentina. It could still be a very poisoned chalice for Argentina but a government could have problems rejecting such an offer. But would they like what happens most likely when they accept it, the United Kingdom and the United States could see it as a Argentina joining the war on the side of the Axis.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Aug 18, 2016 21:07:34 GMT
As I said, a poisoned chalice.
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