pericles
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Post by pericles on Mar 27, 2016 20:25:31 GMT
How could the USA still have Jim Crow and racial segregation today? What would be the effects? How would US society and the world be altered? What if?
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Mar 27, 2016 20:29:33 GMT
How could the USA still have Jim Crow and racial segregation today? What would be the effects? How would US society and the world be altered? What if? Have the South win the Civil War and annex the remains of the North. |
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pericles
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Post by pericles on Mar 27, 2016 20:36:14 GMT
How could the USA still have Jim Crow and racial segregation today? What would be the effects? How would US society and the world be altered? What if? Have the South win the Civil War and annex the remains of the North. Any ideas for this with the PoD after 1900? |
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Mar 27, 2016 20:43:31 GMT
Have the South win the Civil War and annex the remains of the North. Any ideas for this with the PoD after 1900? - President Harry S. Truman never signs Executive Order 9981, desegregating the armed services in 1948. - Rosa Parks gives up her seat on a city bus to a white man in Montgomery, Alabama in 1955. - President Lyndon Johnson does not sign Civil Rights Act of 1964. There are many things that can keep the Jim Crow law for some time but i do not see any way that it can be kept until today. |
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pericles
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Post by pericles on Mar 27, 2016 20:54:07 GMT
An idea I heard on Ah.com was the Democrats keep the two-thirds rule, meaning the South has veto power over nominees and platform. This means the Democrats remain a party opposed to civil rights, and manage to delay it for at least a decade, if not more. Still, Jim Crow would probably afll eventually, maybe he Civil Rights Act of 1984, under President Anderson?
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Mar 27, 2016 20:55:57 GMT
An idea I heard on Ah.com was the Democrats keep the two-thirds rule, meaning the South has veto power over nominees and platform. This means the Democrats remain a party opposed to civil rights, and manage to delay it for at least a decade, if not more. Still, Jim Crow would probably afll eventually, maybe he Civil Rights Act of 1984, under President Anderson? This would cause a lot of riots and civil unrest for more than 20 years in the South, can they survive that. |
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pericles
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Post by pericles on Mar 27, 2016 20:58:10 GMT
An idea I heard on Ah.com was the Democrats keep the two-thirds rule, meaning the South has veto power over nominees and platform. This means the Democrats remain a party opposed to civil rights, and manage to delay it for at least a decade, if not more. Still, Jim Crow would probably afll eventually, maybe he Civil Rights Act of 1984, under President Anderson? This would cause a lot of riots and civil unrest for more than 20 years in the South, can they survive that. It'd be a dark period in US history, yes. Maybe it causes a white backlash and the government goes overboard in a crackdown on 'violent blacks' and politicians seeking the white vote implement more and more radical measures to stifle blacks and civil rights. |
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Mar 27, 2016 21:04:46 GMT
This would cause a lot of riots and civil unrest for more than 20 years in the South, can they survive that. It'd be a dark period in US history, yes. Maybe it causes a white backlash and the government goes overboard in a crackdown on 'violent blacks' and politicians seeking the white vote implement more and more radical measures to stifle blacks and civil rights. I wonder if this could end up as a cause for the 2nd Civil War, maybe with a Northern becoming president who wants to end the Jim Crow law by force but the Southern States refusing causing things to escalate with a new civil war erupting. |
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pericles
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Post by pericles on Mar 28, 2016 2:31:43 GMT
It'd be a dark period in US history, yes. Maybe it causes a white backlash and the government goes overboard in a crackdown on 'violent blacks' and politicians seeking the white vote implement more and more radical measures to stifle blacks and civil rights. I wonder if this could end up as a cause for the 2nd Civil War, maybe with a Northern becoming president who wants to end the Jim Crow law by force but the Southern States refusing causing things to escalate with a new civil war erupting. That's an interesting idea. Doubt it's very plausible, the North is almost certain to win again. The government has all the nukes, though if the South gets some nukes and then.....  Maybe the collapse of the US on this scenario is a PoD for a bigger scenario. That being USSR victory in Cold War. |
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Mar 28, 2016 7:11:21 GMT
I wonder if this could end up as a cause for the 2nd Civil War, maybe with a Northern becoming president who wants to end the Jim Crow law by force but the Southern States refusing causing things to escalate with a new civil war erupting. That's an interesting idea. Doubt it's very plausible, the North is almost certain to win again. The government has all the nukes, though if the South gets some nukes and then..... Maybe the collapse of the US on this scenario is a PoD for a bigger scenario. That being USSR victory in Cold War. How is the Jim Crow law staying longer going to make the Soviet Union win the Cold War. |
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pericles
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Post by pericles on Mar 28, 2016 19:24:33 GMT
That's an interesting idea. Doubt it's very plausible, the North is almost certain to win again. The government has all the nukes, though if the South gets some nukes and then..... Maybe the collapse of the US on this scenario is a PoD for a bigger scenario. That being USSR victory in Cold War. How is the Jim Crow law staying longer going to make the Soviet Union win the Cold War. Probably not but I was thinking it could have international butterflies. It would hurt the US image as they would be hypocritical in promoting democracy and equality. that's why they got rid of Jim Crow IOTL. Also if the US has serious chaos or even a civil war that would benefit their rivals. Just a thought. |
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Post by lordroel on Mar 29, 2016 3:39:02 GMT
How is the Jim Crow law staying longer going to make the Soviet Union win the Cold War. Probably not but I was thinking it could have international butterflies. It would hurt the US image as they would be hypocritical in promoting democracy and equality. that's why they got rid of Jim Crow IOTL. Also if the US has serious chaos or even a civil war that would benefit their rivals. Just a thought. It would be hurtful for the US image but i do not think it will suffer much as it already did in OTL, there will be more demonstrations and civil disobedience for more years but some how i think the Jim Crow Law will go away. |
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futurist
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Post by futurist on Jun 20, 2016 4:01:21 GMT
Have the South win the Civil War and annex the remains of the North. Any ideas for this with the PoD after 1900? Completely butterflying away World War I, World War II, and the Cold War might help with this. I am unsure if even all of this will be enough to make Jim Crow last until today, though. |
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futurist
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Post by futurist on Jun 20, 2016 4:01:54 GMT
Have the South win the Civil War and annex the remains of the North. Any ideas for this with the PoD after 1900? That's extremely unrealistic due to the North's industrial and technological superiority, though. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jun 21, 2016 16:26:45 GMT
If you go for a pre-1900 POD have a longer 1812 conflict which ends up with an independent NEC [New England Confederation] and Britain getting a buffer Indian region in the old NW. Then have it not go in the favourable path of Weissaul's Damned Yankees and slavery become deeply embeded in the rump US. Couple this with say a British protectorate for freed slaves in Florida and Britain moving earlier to end slavery and deep hostility between it and the US. Hence any idea of ending slavery is viewed as anti-patriotic.
Even then your unlikly to see slavery survive until the present day but you could see continued discimination against blacks at a much higher level lasting to the current day.
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