lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jun 11, 2023 10:48:26 GMT
The bridges and railway tunnels in France and Germany can be crossed when they are reached, so to speak. There are ways around some of those issues, both natural and otherwise. Nevertheless, it is noted. If they are not blown up ore destroyed first i assume.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jun 11, 2023 10:59:16 GMT
The bridges and railway tunnels in France and Germany can be crossed when they are reached, so to speak. There are ways around some of those issues, both natural and otherwise. Nevertheless, it is noted. If they are not blown up ore destroyed first i assume.
Good point but I suspect things will happen so fast that other than at a tactical level on the ground commanders - especially at the political level - won't have the time/will to accept how desperate the situation is before its too late.
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Post by simon darkshade on Jun 11, 2023 12:48:33 GMT
Quite right, Steve. The aim in many military operations is to 'get inside the OODA (observe, orient, decide, act) loop' of the enemy, even before such a term was coined in the 1970s/80s and so it is here.
The Germans have the disadvantage of Hitler's tendency to attempt to micromanage when he started to hit defeat in late 1941, in combination with his insistence upon constantly defending every single line and objective to the last man; an exercise in rhetoric that owes more to romanticism than modern military art. Setting aside even that, they have what can be characterised as a strategic inflexibility borne of a weakness of modern strategy. What we should be looking at is how quickly the German position in France collapsed in 1944 after Cobra.
On a tactical level, small German units will have considerable tactical and operational flexibility and advantage, as they did historically, through Auftragstaktik, but they aren't up against the 1940 British, but the 1943/44 British with overwhelming airpower, excellent tanks and artillery that literally blows away their own in performance, capability and responsiveness. Having a decent squad, platoon or company level performance doesn't matter much when the enemy can call down fire from 100 multiple rocket launchers or 25pdrs upon a dogged defence.
Currently, the German Army is spread out over France in pursuit against the collapsing French, with most of their Panzer divisions deep in the interior or Eastern France where, whilst successful, they are in need of a rest, replenishment and reinforcement. Their infantry divisions, the bulk of the Heer, are a mixed bag, with only 10% motorised and the rest reliant on horses. In fact, should they be cut off, say, by an armoured thrust out of Brittany and Normandy towards a line from Dunkirk to Sedan...
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Post by Max Sinister on Jun 12, 2023 6:41:10 GMT
Only discovered this thread right now, but I'm not sure I should continue to read it.
ASBish or not, the German names are pretty silly, and this isn't supposed to be a silly story, is it?
Names like "Verausdeutung" (you mean "Vorausdeutung", I guess?) and "Sündenbock" - sorry, no. Would you like to read stories with British officers named "Foreshadowing" or "Scapegoat"?
You're not the only one doing that, of course. Just think of that RPG with the demon named "Zahnarzt". Yes, it may sound scary to you, but it still means nothing but "dentist". But for German-speakers it is and stays very silly.
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Post by simon darkshade on Jun 12, 2023 10:08:02 GMT
The humourous and absurd/silly elements are intentional and that includes the silly names, which are in the spirit of many a WW2 farce, ranging from the cardboard cutout stereotypes of Commando comics to Allo Allo, the computing room ‘Blinkenlights’ mangled ‘German’ text and much more.
If a few silly names and puns is too much for your tastes, so be it.
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Post by simon darkshade on Jun 13, 2023 10:41:35 GMT
Looking ahead to the establishment of the Brittany and Normandy Redoubt, it historically was considered that it would take ~20 divisions at a minimum to occupy effectively, based on a ~150 mile frontage. That is in terms of 1940 divisions.
In Normandy, the French have ~6 partial strength divisions of the Tenth Army and a further one being withdrawn from Norway on the way, the Downtime British and Canadians have 4 divisions, plus a Belgian division and a Polish one. They have been given momentary respite by the DE RAF and RFC eliminating the two forward Panzer divisions, but the Germans are still across the Seine in some form.
The first waves will see the landing of 2 divisions through Cherbourg and a division at Le Havre on June 16th, along with 2 divisions at Brest, 1 at Saint Malo and 2 apiece at Lorient and Saint Nazaire. The other two divisions of the British First Army will be airlifted in by skyship. The amount of equipment arriving on the first day is significantly more than that left behind at Dunkirk in @. The next wave will start on June 19th and the third on June 24th. These will be formed into an army group commanded by the 21st AG staff prepared for Overlord and hold the front in Normandy. After that, the Fourth and Eighth British and Fifth Canadian Armies will be moved in through Brittany and form the other arm of the advance. Further on June 16th, RAF fighter-bombers and fighters will begin flying in to Brittany and Normandy to extend the reach of the tacair umbrella, as well as supporting the French in Bordeaux alongside the bombers.
There will also be some other means used to disrupt the Germans above and beyond airpower; their sleep being ruined by horrific nightmares will be just the beginning of the Wizard War.
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Post by simon darkshade on Jul 4, 2023 17:18:32 GMT
Even as the larger part of Bomber Command’s heavies had been on their way to deal a dreadful blow to Berlin, the second partner in the Pact of Steel had not been forgotten. Five days before, the hand that held the dagger had plunged it into the back of its neighbour; now the reckoning had begun, first from the air.
The industrial northern cities of Turin, Milan and Genoa had been allocated two squadrons of Vickers Windsors each. The six engined bombers had first seen service in 1942 in Operation Chastise amid the Battle of the Ruhr, but had been used across Europe as a result of their tremendous range and altitude capabilities, including Spain, Romania and the USSR. The farthest Italian cities, Rome and Naples, were assigned to a further three squadrons of Windsors and the first eight Avro York superheavy bombers in the entire Royal Air Force.
Whilst some damage was inflicted by the raids, particularly over Genoa, where the Ansaldo shipyard had been badly hit, the primary purpose was one of sending a message. Indeed, one plane in each group was allocated a special load of propaganda leaflets, dropped away from the target areas. Each page bore a simple message:
Hai seminato el vento; ora raccoglierai il turbine.
Verremo.
……………….
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jul 4, 2023 17:45:36 GMT
Hai seminato el vento; ora raccoglierai il turbine. Verremo. …………………. A clear message, time for the Grand Council of Fascism to kick somnody out the window.
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Post by simon darkshade on Jul 5, 2023 1:14:40 GMT
Once again, it is an issue of time. The change in fortune is happening overnight, too quickly for unrest to grow, meetings to be held and lessons to be digested.
It took until 25 July 1943, or after the fall of East and North Africa, the Greek debacle, the strategic defeat of the RM, bombing, shortages, the defeat of Italian forces in Russia and the looming loss of Sicily, for action in @.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jul 5, 2023 3:43:42 GMT
and Lorient and the Australians at Saint Malo. No ANZAC Corps.
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Post by simon darkshade on Jul 5, 2023 4:56:47 GMT
They are landing one division at a time at Saint Malo, as it is a smaller port. Eventually, the I Anzac Corps will be deployed through there to form the base of First Army's offensive, but logistics limit what can be done.
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Post by simon darkshade on Jul 5, 2023 4:56:57 GMT
The value of being able to do administrative landings from unmolested ports is that it allows a far swifter build up of men, equipment and supplies. However, we are still talking about a lot of men, a lot of equipment and a lot of supplies. Historically, Cherbourg could handle ~800 tons a day in peacetime, but was built up to 25,000t/day by the end of September 1944 (https://cgsc.contentdm.oclc.org/digital/collection/p4013coll8/id/4360/), which gives us a figure of 3 months for the reconstruction and expansion process after German demolitions, which did not occur here.
This figure of 25,000 is significant, as the expected requirement for 37 Allied divisions was 26,000t. Extrapolated upwards, the British Liberation Army/British Expeditionary Force will need ~56,216 tons per day at a minimum. Cherbourg, Brest, Le Havre, Lorient, Saint Malo and Saint Nazaire together will allow for sufficient in flow of supplies, when fully improved, with the caveat that the French railway network is also a logistical bottleneck, necessitating a lot of road transport. Additionally, usage of a significant fraction of the limited skyship fleet (5 out of 29) can allow for daily delivery of ~25,000t to inland supply bases that bypass the bottleneck of the ports from D+3/June 19th.
Full air supremacy can be effectively guaranteed, given the disparity in numbers and technology, so there isn't a serious aerial interdiction threat.
Some limited counterattacks will take place along an expanding perimeter whilst supplies are built up over the first weeks, but the primary means of stopping the Germans will be through letting loose tacair over France. The French in the south will be able to stabilise along the Loire once German logistics get butchered, followed by a fair whack of an advance from Brittany/Normandy to Dunkirk-Sedan by two dozen British armoured and mechanised divisions.
The enemy: Army Group B with 47 divisions of 4th, 6th and 9th Armys and Panzer Group Kleist. Army Group A is engaged in the potentially threatening task of cutting off the French forces on the Maginot Line, but they will be starting to react at this point, even two days after the PoD. Jerry wasn't stupid or a pushover at this stage by any stretch of the imagination, so will not simply continue on their @ behaviour. Their weak link is the Luftwaffe, which took some heavy losses in the Battle of France and is about to take a whole lot more up against a technologically superior RAF that outnumbers them 10:1 in fighters and 7.3:1 in bombers. Even taking into account the smaller than expected/smaller than claimed losses of German ground forces to tacair over Normandy, this is a different paradigm that will yield different results.
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Post by simon darkshade on Jul 21, 2023 14:09:54 GMT
I'm going to post up the collated versions of Parts 1, 2 and 3 directly.
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Post by simon darkshade on Jul 21, 2023 14:53:07 GMT
Prologue
June 14 1940
Paris had fallen.
The City of Light was now under the Nazi jackboot and the armies of France collapsed inexorably to the south, streaming away towards defeat and whatever was then to come.
Yet, as the triumphant soldiers of the Wehrmacht goosestepped through the Arc de Triomphe, a curious occurrence happened.
In the West, there was a bright flash out on the horizon and a brief rumble like very distant thunder.
Strange.
It was probably nothing, though, thought Leutnant Verausdeutung. Probably just nothing.
But he was wrong.
………………
“What do you mean a new island? Have you lost your mind, Pluskat?” …………
“Oberst Sündenbock, these reports have been very confused. What can you give me?” General der Flieger Hugo Sperrle adjusted his monocle and fixed an inquisitive stare on the colonel from Luftwaffe intelligence.
”More confusion, Herr General, or rather nothing that makes sense. Firstly, our fighter patrols over the Calais area report English planes of unknown types and frankly incredible speeds of 1000 kilometres an hour, as well as what seem to be Spitfires, also faster than previous experience. Secondly, our own airfields in Northern France have be overflown by other unknown twin engine aircraft, some at low level and unprecedented speeds and others…at 14000 metres. As said, frankly incredible.”
”So, the English have some aeroplanes we do not know about. No Great matter.”
”On their own, perhaps, Herr General. The third and fourth matters are a bit more disturbing.”
”In what way?”
”After the Calais incidents, a schwarm of our Ju-88s was assigned to conduct a reconnaissance flight. One made it back, reporting having encountered up to a hundred English planes, none of which seemed to have propellers or ordinary engines. The RAF let them go; there was no pursuit.”
”And what of this fourth matter?”
”An unconfirmed piece from the Kriegsmarine, Herr General. One of their U-Boats sighted a Tommy battleship coming down from the north near Scarborough.”
”Why didn’t they sink it?”
”Going too fast, apparently. And…”
”And what?”
”It was the size of the Queen Mary." ……………….
”What do you mean, giant zeppelins? Have you been drinking, Leutnant?”
……………….
“This is the second pilot I’ve had to relieve today, Herr Oberst. Yes, complete hysteria, the both of them. He was shouting about dragons of all things as they drove him away. Mad, I tell you!”
………………….
“General Brooke? Telephone call for you from London. In Hindustani.”
”Again? General Dill?”
”Field Marshal Ironside, it would seem.”
Strange.
”Very well.”
…………….
”Marshal Weygand.”
”General. Your message was quite insistent, but I am afraid there is nothing further that we can discuss so soon; much needs to be done to ensure that an armistice can be secured.”
”I can quite understand, Marshal. I have just spoken with…my superiors…in London. The circumstances have changed. Somewhat.”
”I think you had better explain.”
And so he did. ………………
”What forces do we have available, Field Marshal?”
”Insofar as the Army is concerned, aside those units outside the British Isles which have no yet made contact, we have 43 British infantry, 17 armoured and 4 airborne divisions; 10 Canadian infantry, 4 armoured and 1 airborne; the 3 Australian infantry and 2 armoured and the 2 New Zealand infantry; 3 South African, 1 Rhodesian and 4 Indian divisions. Out of all the exiles, we only have the two Polish corps.”
”None of the French or Americans.”
”We can state with certainty now that none of their men have come with us, nor their own equipment. Our stocks of American weapons are still present, and, with the build up for Overlord next year, we have the capacity to equip further forces as we can raise them.”
“It will depend on France. In any event, we’ll get General Brooke and his men back; I’m sure he’ll be very interested to meet you.”
“Very droll, Prime Minister.”
“Now, Admiral Pound, can you confirm the better news regarding the Navy?”
”Yes, Prime Minister. All the major overseas fleets have now made contact - Somerville from the Med, Fraser and the Atlantic Fleet, Mountbatten and the East Indies Fleet and Cunningham with the Grand Fleet. They are all as confused as we are as to what is going on. We have also established communications with the other Navy - one of their carriers was stopped as it was coming in towards Scapa. They are…different…”
”What isn’t, Admiral?”
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Post by simon darkshade on Jul 21, 2023 14:57:28 GMT
Part 1
0130 June 15 1940
"All of them?"
"That is our belief at this time, Prime Minister. We now have communications with all major overseas units of the Army and RAF, relocated to vacant American bases over the course of the afternoon."
"Thank you, General. Continue with the process of taking stock of the 'newly arrived' forces and equipment in conjunction with your staff. Goodbye."
He turned to the Minister of Magic, who had arrived from Oxford in the rush and confusion of the previous day. "That does tend to settle the matter, does it not, Professor?"
"It would, Prime Minister, insofar as it indicates that whatever has occurred is definitely not natural. Whether or not is supernatural, arcane or something else remains to be seen; we can say definitively that this is beyond our ken and certainly the ability of our foes. It will be many days yet before our wizards can provide more than that."
"Very good, Professor. Carry on then and we shall keep as calm as we can in the knowledge that this is not some more devilish tricks bought forth by the Hitler and his demonic Nazi gang."
Prime Minister Churchill put down his long extinguished Montecristo and looked up at the War Cabinet arrayed around the table. On his right was Minister of War Sir Richard Harcourt, representing the Liberal Party; Foreign Secretary Sir Anthony Eden; the redoubtable Sir John Anderson, Lord President, Home Secretary and Minister of Home Security; Lord Hankey; Minister of Production Lord Beaverbrook; Minister of Labour Ernest Bevin; Cabinet Secretary Sir Edward Bridges; Lord Privy Seal Sir Austen Chamberlain; Deputy Prime Minister Sir Clement Attlee; Chief of the Imperial General Staff Field Marshal Sir Alan Brooke; Chief of the Air Staff Marshal of the Royal Air Force Sir Hugh Dowding; and First Sea Lord Admiral of the Fleet Sir William Fisher.
"Well, gentlemen, this is what we know. We have gone from September 1943 to what for all intents and purposes appears to be June of 1940, through an act beyond our understanding that may well turn out to be divine providence. Where there was a world at war, we are now at the very beginning of the long and terrible struggle; yet, by virtue of our years of fighting and production, we can muster forces far beyond the dreams of Hitler and Mussolini in their seeming pomp of victory. There is a great deal of confusion still as to the nature of this war we have been placed into, as our initial reconnoitering and intercepts of enemy broadcasts show a very different world indeed. Norway is effectively lost to Germany and France soon to follow. We shall continue in our efforts to divine what those differences are, as well as make use of conventional means; I have sent a pair of urgent flights to our embassies in Switzerland and Portugal for whatever histories, news and other archives, particularly from the League, that can be sent here for our examination and digestion. The time for consideration, though, is subject to the needs of the war and in many respects, we need action this day. Field Marshal Brooke?"
"Thank you, Prime Minister. We have been in contact with senior British personnel in France to assess the situation and it is, for want of a better word, dire. The French government is on the brink of collapse and asking the Germans for an armistice, pushed by strongly defeatist factions in their Army. Should they succeed and France sue for peace, then we are deprived of our most direct means of engaging and defeating the German Army. We do not have firm intelligence on the size or armament of the enemy at this time other than general figures - 150 divisions and over 3 millions of men, several thousand tanks and over 5000 aircraft. Overall, the balance of forces lies in our favour as, although the Germans can deploy more divisions than us, we have more men and a great preponderance of equipment; in the last instance, our weapons can reasonably be presumed to be more modern than those of Germany three years ago. In any event, if France surrenders, we would then be forced to invade to bring them to battle and to do so without the ships and landing craft supplied by the Americans. Overlord was at least 9 months away and we do not currently have the ships to launch a full scale assault on France with the British and Imperial forces now present at home.
We are currently working on an emergency landing operation based on a partial amalgam of Sledgehammer from last year and limited elements of Overlord, aimed at Brittany and Normandy. Whilst we considered the Pas de Calais, the damage done to the ports there during the fighting in France and evacuation makes them unsuitable to be used for our purposes. Our new plan, and I must reinforce that it is a work in progress, calls for an assault by three divisions, supported by two airborne divisions and large air and sea forces, aimed at seizing Britanny and the Cotentin Peninsula to build up our forces. Our window for such an operation is fairly narrow, encompassing approximately a month from mid July to mid August. For the time being, and as a deceptive measure, it has been designated Operation Sealion. Before we can land troops, though, the main blow that falls upon the enemy must come from the air."
"As matters currently stand, we have sufficient forces to engage this Luftwaffe on quite advantageous terms and defeat them." Dowding said evenly. "In our medium and heavy bomber forces, we have long range striking weapons that the Germans presumably cannot match; our current tactical reconnaissance missions tend to confirm this state of affairs, with no evidence of jet aircraft whatsoever. Regaining air supremacy over Northern France is achievable, but any fighter campaign needs to be accompanied by strategic interdiction of enemy supplies and attacks on their production. When the order is given, we can attack the German Army in France and the Low Countries and give the Luftwaffe the nastiest surprise they have ever encountered."
"Indeed. That we can deal the Nazis a blow is undoubtable, but we must make our moves carefully so that they have maximum effect. To that end, the first targets that the RAF must hit need to be those that hurt the Germans the most, both in terms of how they fight and where they fight. Before we hammer the Ruhr or their U-Boat ports, let us show what can be done. Air Chief Marshal, have Bomber Command attack the dams as soon as possible; the first order of priority is Berlin. Maximum effort. Shifting to the sea, the Grand Fleet has already been ordered to head for home - once in the Mediterranean, they will put paid to Mussolini's fleet and ambitions. Admiral Mountbatten is to take control of the 10 older battleships at Singapore to dissuade the Japanese from any rash steps. The other urgent task that we are capable of accomplishing is putting the Home Fleet to sea and attacking the Germans in Norway; RNAS reconnaissance flights indicate that Scharnhorst, Gneisenau, and Admiral Hipper are all in Norwegian waters. To that end, Admiral Tovey sailed last night."
"We are quite confident that his 8 carriers, 12 battleships, 25 cruisers and 60 destroyers will be able to do the job, Prime Minister." said the First Sea Lord. "Actually liberating Norway will be somewhat more complex, but brute force has a virtue of its own in this situation."
........................
“Circumspection. Simple as that, my dear Winston.”
“Pray expand, Richard. Expand as to why, when God gives us an opportunity, we should not seize it?”
Harcourt gave a tiny internal sigh at Churchill’s mercurial nature. This was not the first time that he or Brooke had sought to curb the Prime Minister’s instincts, with varying degrees of success.
“It has been around 36 hours since our arrival, if I can put it that way. We have at best partial intelligence on not only the Germans but the world at large that we find ourselves in. Now that our relative position with regard to air and land forces is established, do we necessarily lose anything by not committing ourselves to immediate general offensive action?”
“I would tend to concur, Prime Minister. Whilst we can launch an offensive into France, the longer we take to prepare it, the more our likelihood of total success. Our window for a cross-Channel invasion, if it comes to it, extends to mid September, just as the German one did back in 1940…well, our 1940. Even then, we would be dealing with a number of unknown variables, ranging from the weather to the French. We’ve spent a year and a half planning and preparing Overlord and we still had another 9 months yet to go.” said Brooke.
“We are not going to leave Europe to the mercy of Nazi tyranny for that long. We are delivered here to provide for a much swifter end to this war and their bloody murder.”
“That isn’t what I’d suggest at all, Winston. I’m all for action this day as much as you, but it depends on what action. If we shift our immediate steps to the periphery, as it were, then we keep the vast part of our strengths and options open. Every week that goes by makes us stronger, after all. We went through the production plans back in August; this month, we will add 480 tanks, all of them the new Super Crusader, at least 1200 carriers and 1000 guns, not to mention 7 new destroyers, 500 Spitfires, 250 rockets and 6 LSTs.”
“The last are what we really need, Prime Minister - not just LSTs, but all manner of landing craft as well. We’ve got what we had here at home, but we are now without not just the production from the United States, but also Canada. Whilst I cannot say it conclusively until we have more intelligence on the numbers and equipment of this Germany, I am fairly sure that we can outproduce them in every major category of military equipment for the rest of the year, cementing our advantage.”
“If not France, then where?”
“Two places: Norway and Egypt. In Norway, we can maul their fleet, as we discussed earlier, whilst having a relatively nearby combat theatre in which to gauge Jerry’s capabilities. In Egypt, we can wrap up Italian North Africa before the end of autumn.” Harcourt stabbed at the map with his pencil to emphasise each point.
“Very well. Unless Ironside’s mission to the French encounters some dramatic success on the morrow, we can work towards that basis. Whatever their decision, we will start hitting the Germans from the air, including letting Harris loose on Berlin. That will be a quite decisive factor that will show that, far from being stricken by the looming collapse of our ally, we are prepared to fight and win. To that end, have the Dover Guns begin firing across the Channel and have the BBC include a piece on the Grand Fleet heading back to us.”
Harcourt smiled. “I quite agree, Prime Minister. It is about sending a message.”
“Speaking of which, I have a cable to dictate to President Roosevelt before bed. That will be a rather interesting endeavour.”
………………….
“This is London calling in the overseas service of the British Broadcasting Corporation. Here is the news. The main force of the Grand Fleet under Admiral Cunningham has been ordered home from the Far East, with 27 battleships, 60 aircraft carriers, 72 cruisers and 214 destroyers and escorts already underway; Admiral Mountbatten is to remain at Singapore with ten older 18” capital ships. The Prime Minister, Mr Churchill, has called upon Italy and Germany to surrender whilst they still can and that it was only a matter of time until all of conquered Europe would be liberated. Morning has come.”
………….. Washington D.C.
President Franklin Roosevelt took a drag from his cigarette holder and then exhaled, just a tad more forcefully than usual.
“Do you have any idea what the British are playing at, Admiral?”
“Mr. President, short of them going completely mad, the only possible explanation is propaganda, but this frankly does seem to be of the most transparent kind possible. I can’t see who they are trying to fool, lying like this.”
“Perhaps it is something to do with the confusion of the last day or so and the French being on the brink of surrender.”
“Yes, Mr. President. Whatever it is, it will soon become clear.”
…………………
Admiral Yamamoto sat and thought. Surely, this could not be true in any way.
The alternative did not even bear thinking about.
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