575
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Post by 575 on Apr 21, 2023 9:27:05 GMT
Navy Ministry Copenhagen 18 April 1940/ 10 February 1864 10 AM Rear-Admiral Hammerich: ”Minister we have a small problem on our hands regarding the 1864 Navy personnel and ships.” Christmas Møller MoD: ”Do continue Rear-Admiral” Rear-Admiral Hammerich: ”Minister yesterday the steam Frigate Niels Juel was observed moving south from Norwegian waters towards Jutland by a He-8 aircraft. The Patrolboat at Frederikshavn was sent out to greet it and escort it to port. Lieutenantcommander Gottlieb have lost his family due to our appearance and is marked by this event.” Christmas Møller MoD: ”I fully understand that – is there anything we can do to help him and the crew?” Rear-Admiral Hammerich: ”Minister we have to think about tomorrow even though this war of ours haven't been finalized by treaty yet.” Christmas Møller MoD: ”Well I sense some cunning plan of Yours Rear-Admiral” Rear-Admiral Hammerich: ”Minister the American Civil War is still raging and we have become masters of the West Indies once again. There is CSA raiders and blockade runners in the Caribbean and we have an obligation to defend our colony and the shipping in area. We have the screw Scooner Fylla on station in the West Indies, commander Kaptajnløjtnant E. Krieger, but I think it wise to upscale our presence there. That would be an indirect support of the USA, which I think may not be out of step with Government but more importantly it would serve as a means to keep those 1864 ships and crew occupied.” Christmas Møller MoD: ”Sounds like a plan Rear-Admiral – how about the Thor and Esbern Snare not to forget Lieutenant Hammer and the Wadden Sea units?” Rear-Admiral Hammerich: ”Minister those three ships Niels Juel, Thor and Esbern Snare are all steamships and could travel across the Atlantic as a unit. Gottlieb is one of the most experienced officers of the 1864 Navy along Hammer – they actually served together in the First Schleswig War in the Wadden Sea so they know each other well. I'm unsure if Hammer will want a command in the West Indies as his family live in Føhr one of the Wadden Sea isles. It may depend on the peace tready and future state of the Duchies. My suggestion is that we as soon as possible send off the West Indies Squadron; Lieutenantcommander J. L. Gottlieb promoted Commander and acting Rear-Admiral West Indies?” Christmas Møller MoD: ”I like the idea and I expect the PM to do so. It will make for the crews to stay in a better known world still party to us and make for a stronger presence in the Americas. I consult the PM about the cross-Atlantic journey; its not really the time of year for a North Atlantic crossing but perhaps a more southerly route passing Spain – Azores – Bermuda – New Foundland and New York? Could then carry some diplomatic post for the Minister to USA – actually think the PM would like that. I'll get back to You.” So a Danish Caribbean Squadron, how would it be called in Danish. "Den Vestindiske Eskadre" - West Indies Squadron  |
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Apr 21, 2023 9:32:39 GMT
So a Danish Caribbean Squadron, how would it be called in Danish. "Den Vestindiske Eskadre" - West Indies Squadron Seems Denmark becomes a player in the Caribbean. |
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575
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Post by 575 on Apr 21, 2023 9:43:24 GMT
"Den Vestindiske Eskadre" - West Indies Squadron Seems Denmark becomes a player in the Caribbean. Militarily in relation to the ACW - yes, to protect its assets.
In the longer run - haven't decided yet. Panama/Nicaragua Canal is going to be build at some time though I don't have a H.N. Andersen ITTL to be the Danish driver as in the 1914 ISOT. Due to its Western Hemisphere assets Denmark should have a natural interest in a kind of US alliance! However Foreign Office as epitomized in E. Scavenius is having a neutrality outlook. Thats the main reason I'm still in the dark on this.  |
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Apr 21, 2023 9:59:20 GMT
Seems Denmark becomes a player in the Caribbean. Militarily in relation to the ACW - yes, to protect its assets. In the longer run - haven't decided yet. Panama/Nicaragua Canal is going to be build at some time though I don't have a H.N. Andersen ITTL to be the Danish driver as in the 1914 ISOT. Due to its Western Hemisphere assets Denmark should have a natural interest in a kind of US alliance! However Foreign Office as epitomized in E. Scavenius is having a neutrality outlook. Thats the main reason I'm still in the dark on this. Well it to late for the CSA unless there is a Nazi sympathizer in 1940 Denmark (looking at you 1940 German Embassy) that feels that at this moment in time, the CSA while loosing to the Union is the closest thing to 1940 Germany there is. |
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575
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Post by 575 on Apr 21, 2023 10:15:41 GMT
Militarily in relation to the ACW - yes, to protect its assets. In the longer run - haven't decided yet. Panama/Nicaragua Canal is going to be build at some time though I don't have a H.N. Andersen ITTL to be the Danish driver as in the 1914 ISOT. Due to its Western Hemisphere assets Denmark should have a natural interest in a kind of US alliance! However Foreign Office as epitomized in E. Scavenius is having a neutrality outlook. Thats the main reason I'm still in the dark on this. Well it to late for the CSA unless there is a Nazi sympathizer in 1940 Denmark (looking at you 1940 German Embassy) that feels that at this moment in time, the CSA while loosing to the Union is the closest thing to 1940 Germany there is. Possible though I don't think such would have the funds to do much but more importantly the German Aristocracy viewed the Nazis a vehicle through which to rule Weimar-Germany in their direction. Not the other way round. Don't see it as a go. |
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Apr 21, 2023 10:32:11 GMT
Well it to late for the CSA unless there is a Nazi sympathizer in 1940 Denmark (looking at you 1940 German Embassy) that feels that at this moment in time, the CSA while loosing to the Union is the closest thing to 1940 Germany there is. Possible though I don't think such would have the funds to do much but more importantly the German Aristocracy viewed the Nazis a vehicle through which to rule Weimar-Germany in their direction. Not the other way round. Don't see it as a go. So no Guns of the South scenario for the South in 1864. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Apr 21, 2023 12:49:08 GMT
Possible though I don't think such would have the funds to do much but more importantly the German Aristocracy viewed the Nazis a vehicle through which to rule Weimar-Germany in their direction. Not the other way round. Don't see it as a go. So no Guns of the South scenario for the South in 1864.
Too late and too small. A rogue element from the German embassy in Denmark, even if they could get to the CSA and get listened to could give advice - which may or may not be good - but no real technical support. Also if something like that was to happen it would be relatively easily for Denmark to swamp anything they could supply with open military support for the union.
Referencing an earlier post I don't know how practical a US alliance would be given the deeply embedded hostility the US has to such ideas. However if Denmark can quickly upgrade the colonies in the Caribbean to pretty much full citizenship status over the next couple of decades it would make it a lot more difficult for Washington at any time in the future to play the 'anti-colonial' card.
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575
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Post by 575 on Apr 21, 2023 17:55:38 GMT
Telegramme from Frankfurt a.M. Imperial Diet 19 April 1940/11 February 1864
”Princely states agree to let Saxon Minister of Foreign Affairs Friedrich Ferdinand v. Beust represent the German Confederation during Peace Talks at London – vote 41 for” (total 78)
Telegramme from PM's office Copenhagen to: Imperial Diet Foreign Minister P. Munch
”Friederich der Achte acceptable”
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575
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Post by 575 on Apr 21, 2023 18:44:29 GMT
(lets go for some incineration)
Copenhagen 19 April 1940
Having been briefed of the activities of Foreign Minister P. Munch at Frankfurt a.M. Christmas Møller MoD and Thomas Madsen-Mygdal Min.of Agriculture take the information to their respective party groups at Parliament.
Conservative and Liberal MP's yelling treason at Copenhagen when the speech of P. Munch gets referenced. Letting Friederich der Achte rule Schleswig-Holstein – Saxe-Lauenburg! NEVER!
PM Stauning talk hard to the two political parties – we have peace to win or do you want a replay in 25 years?
Christmas Møller barely manage to talk the Conservatives into accepting Government proposal. Liberals fall out and leave the National Unity Government.
Then the Conservatives is fractured into a Moderate and an ultra-Conservative fractions.
Still Stauning have political majority but declare elections in 6 months time.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Apr 21, 2023 21:43:02 GMT
Telegramme from Frankfurt a.M. Imperial Diet 19 April 1940/11 February 1864 ”Princely states agree to let Saxon Minister of Foreign Affairs Friedrich Ferdinand v. Beust represent the German Confederation during Peace Talks at London – vote 41 for” (total 78) Telegramme from PM's office Copenhagen to: Imperial Diet Foreign Minister P. Munch ”Friederich der Achte acceptable”
So that means 37 voted against or abstained. How many votes does Prussia have in the assembly I wonder?
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575
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Post by 575 on Apr 22, 2023 7:31:33 GMT
Telegramme from Frankfurt a.M. Imperial Diet 19 April 1940/11 February 1864 ”Princely states agree to let Saxon Minister of Foreign Affairs Friedrich Ferdinand v. Beust represent the German Confederation during Peace Talks at London – vote 41 for” (total 78) Telegramme from PM's office Copenhagen to: Imperial Diet Foreign Minister P. Munch ”Friederich der Achte acceptable”
So that means 37 voted against or abstained. How many votes does Prussia have in the assembly I wonder?
Prussia itself have 4, two Hohenzollern states 1 each - others here - I may be in error of those voting against or abstaining but its my guess.
Voting for: Austria 4
Bavaria 4
Saxony 4
Hanover 4
Württemberg 4
Hesse's 7
Saxony's 5
Brunswick 2
Nassau 2
Mecklenburg's 3
Oldenburg 1
Hamburg 1
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575
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Post by 575 on Apr 22, 2023 7:44:48 GMT
Wadden Sea Isles 12 February 1864
”Keep the Wadden Sea isles” – Lieutenantcaptain O.C. Hammer raise the banner in a political campaign and is immediately met with a heavy barrage from the Navy Ministry - ”You are presently in the service of His Majesty's Navy – Political activity not allowed service personnel. You may stop Your political activities or face consequenses – a posting to the West Indies or North Atlantic – or You may resign.”
Hammer stops his open political activity but everybody is aware that he is talking to various peoples in the South Jutland/Wadden Sea region strongly argueing Denmark to keep the isles.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Apr 22, 2023 7:52:23 GMT
Wadden Sea Isles 12 February 1864 ”Keep the Wadden Sea isles” – Lieutenantcaptain O.C. Hammer raise the banner in a political campaign and is immediately met with a heavy barrage from the Navy Ministry - ”You are presently in the service of His Majesty's Navy – Political activity not allowed service personnel. You may stop Your political activities or face consequenses – a posting to the West Indies or North Atlantic – or You may resign.” Hammer stops his open political activity but everybody is aware that he is talking to various peoples in the South Jutland/Wadden Sea region strongly argueing Denmark to keep the isles. A posting to West Indies is not all to bad. |
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575
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Post by 575 on Apr 22, 2023 8:10:59 GMT
Wadden Sea Isles 12 February 1864 ”Keep the Wadden Sea isles” – Lieutenantcaptain O.C. Hammer raise the banner in a political campaign and is immediately met with a heavy barrage from the Navy Ministry - ”You are presently in the service of His Majesty's Navy – Political activity not allowed service personnel. You may stop Your political activities or face consequenses – a posting to the West Indies or North Atlantic – or You may resign.” Hammer stops his open political activity but everybody is aware that he is talking to various peoples in the South Jutland/Wadden Sea region strongly argueing Denmark to keep the isles. A posting to West Indies is not all to bad. No it isn't but the man was living with his family in one of the southern isles - Föhr - which isn't part of 1940 Denmark and hence why he is around. Having a destinguished career during the 1 Schleswig War in the Wadden See and then becoming the official of the Danish Fyrvæsen/Trinity House Corporation in the area though with the outbreak of war he had been given a command in the area. |
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575
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Post by 575 on Apr 22, 2023 8:11:32 GMT
Denmark 20 April 1940 USA Minister to Copenhagen Ray Atherton is approached by shipping manager and armsdealer A.P. Møller who control the AP Møller line and Riffelsyndikatet to conclude an arms deal with the USA of delivery of Madsen Machineguns and ammunition as well as handgrenades and Field-phones. Danish Army Artillery officers will be singled out and approached for temporary service with the US Army to increase effectivity of the US Army Artillery. A.P. Møller wants contracts on transports of crude oil and metals from the USA to Denmark. Asked as to why A.P. Møller offers these initiatives the shipping magnate inform Ray Atherton that he wants to help the USA win this war quickly as he found his wife ”over there”. However a deal of metals for arms is essential as it is needed for the manufacture. Minisiter Ray Atherton promise A.P. Møller to take his proposal to the US Government as soon as he is able. A.P. Møller offers to let a Steamship take the Minister across the Atlantic.
Edit: 290423 a documentary showed (Arnold) Mærsk (yes that firm) Mckinney-Møller only to go to New York, USA post German occupation of Denmark.
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