stevep
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Post by stevep on Jan 31, 2024 18:39:55 GMT
Which continent would that be? At least initially it would only really be the old south and then parts of the Caribbean. The territory would be largely agricultural - although the author did try and argue that slavery would easily work with industrial production. - Which I've never believed and isn't exactly supported by attempts at slavery in the industrial period in assorted autocratic powers. You can employ many millions of people as forced labourers/slaves and get a lot of brute work done but industrial production was far more difficult.
I don't know... think about Nazi Germany... there was some sabotage, but considered how outnumbered and resource-poor they were, it did work to a certain extent... so, DoD doesn't seem impossible.
Also, why "the old south and then parts of the Caribbean"? This may apply to other "CSA wins" TLs, but in DoD, only New England, NY and New Jersey secede, so in the rest-*US, the slave states far outnumber the free states.
Ah sorry its so long ago since I have read the details but I didn't realise it was basically a northern independence movement. That would however make for problems for 'free labour'. It would however make for a much larger slave state.
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Post by American hist on Jan 31, 2024 20:53:40 GMT
The Caribbean could not declare independence from Great Britain because they were too dependent on the motherland. For this to occur, he would have to have the American Navy defeat, the British fleet which isn’t going to happen, and I would say couldn’t happen till World War II. If I’m reading this right fascism wasn’t common in the United States and the areas that had a presidents were in the city’s particularly with a high number of Germond, and sometimes Italian ethnicities. The Italians did have people before World War II, who admired his leader ship. when you have a dictator in power, even if they do bad things people often want to at least try to stay loyal to your country or heritage. After all that everything bad comes from tyrannical leadership. Tyrants can do good things with strong leader ship.
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Post by Otto Kretschmer on Jan 31, 2024 21:06:31 GMT
WI: Mohist China.
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Zyobot
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Just a time-traveling robot stranded on Earth.
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Post by Zyobot on Feb 2, 2024 23:34:12 GMT
'AHC: Other Presidents Serve More Than Two Terms'.
Washington's a no-brainer, but besides him (and FDR), I'm curious as to who else could've pulled it off with the right "nudge" here or there.
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Post by Max Sinister on Feb 3, 2024 20:25:39 GMT
'AHC: Other Presidents Serve More Than Two Terms'. Washington's a no-brainer, but besides him (and FDR), I'm curious as to who else could've pulled it off with the right "nudge" here or there. Andrew Jackson did it in "Decades of Darkness".
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Post by Otto Kretschmer on Feb 5, 2024 17:01:42 GMT
WI: Mongol invasion of Japan succeeds.
How would it impact Japanese politics and culture? The rule of Mongols likely wouldn't last more than 50-80 years but with the Yamato royal family killed, I don't see the Japanese developing the same pride as they did OTL. I also see post Mongol Japan being more centralized loke China and not a clan based, feudal society.
What do you guys think?
stevep, 575?
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Post by TheRomanSlayer on Feb 5, 2024 21:12:37 GMT
WI: Mongol invasion of Japan succeeds. How would it impact Japanese politics and culture? The rule of Mongols likely wouldn't last more than 50-80 years but with the Yamato royal family killed, I don't see the Japanese developing the same pride as they did OTL. I also see post Mongol Japan being more centralized loke China and not a clan based, feudal society. What do you guys think? stevep, 575? Aside from trying to avoid the typhoon, I also think that the untimely death of the Japanese royal family means Japan would be a kingdom ruled by any ruling clan the Mongols would pick. |
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Post by American hist on Feb 7, 2024 1:52:00 GMT
In an alternative history, if the Confederates took DC, and we’re not arguing the feasibility, would Great Britain possibly recognize the Confederacy? Intervention wouldn’t be a bad idea due to the Trent affair. I don’t think the Trent affair is a very likely point of divergence because Lincoln knew better than that. Now, if the European powers already recognized the confederacy and the union had already threatened war in the past, this would be a good reason.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Feb 7, 2024 16:03:58 GMT
In an alternative history, if the Confederates took DC, and we’re not arguing the feasibility, would Great Britain possibly recognize the Confederacy? Intervention wouldn’t be a bad idea due to the Trent affair. I don’t think the Trent affair is a very likely point of divergence because Lincoln knew better than that. Now, if the European powers already recognized the confederacy and the union had already threatened war in the past, this would be a good reason.
I would say its a possibility but probably not a large one. Would depend very much on the circumstances, such as how feasible the south holding onto the city and the north's willing to fight on after such a political loss especially. I think London would only really push against an already half open door, at least until the north had done something to really anger them.
I think the Trent Affair might be a trigger for a crisis that leads to a dow - although that might not result in a formal recognition of the south by Britain. All you need to do it have someone less determined that Lieutenant Fairfax as Wilkes 2nd in command. He ignored Wilkes instructions that if Mason & Slidel were on board to insist on seizing all dispatches on board the ship and talked Wilkes out of his initial decision to take the Trent as a prize. If either, let alone both of those had occurred the reaction in London would have been a lot stronger and I think even Prince Albert would be unwilling to insist on moderating the initial response from the government.
The reason why this quite possibly wouldn't lead to a formal recognition of the south is because Britain wouldn't want to link its causa belli - of the illegal seizure of the ship and its passengers - with the association with the south's open support of slavery.
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Post by Max Sinister on Feb 8, 2024 22:57:02 GMT
In an alternative history, if the Confederates took DC, and we’re not arguing the feasibility, would Great Britain possibly recognize the Confederacy? Intervention wouldn’t be a bad idea due to the Trent affair. I don’t think the Trent affair is a very likely point of divergence because Lincoln knew better than that. Now, if the European powers already recognized the confederacy and the union had already threatened war in the past, this would be a good reason. In other places I've read that this is extremely improbable - even if they won Gettysburg, there were many strong forts around DC.
Now my WI: Recently I read that Galilei's telescope had been made in the Netherlands. Which makes me wonder why it was an Italian who made great discoveries with it and no Dutchman. @lordroel , any idea?
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Feb 8, 2024 23:13:27 GMT
In an alternative history, if the Confederates took DC, and we’re not arguing the feasibility, would Great Britain possibly recognize the Confederacy? Intervention wouldn’t be a bad idea due to the Trent affair. I don’t think the Trent affair is a very likely point of divergence because Lincoln knew better than that. Now, if the European powers already recognized the confederacy and the union had already threatened war in the past, this would be a good reason. In other places I've read that this is extremely improbable - even if they won Gettysburg, there were many strong forts around DC.
Now my WI: Recently I read that Galilei's telescope had been made in the Netherlands. Which makes me wonder why it was an Italian who made great discoveries with it and no Dutchman. @lordroel , any idea?
On the 1st point I have read that by Gettysburg Washington was being called the most heavily fortified position on Earth. Although I have also seen some contrary information that there were weaknesses in the forts being unable to cover each other. Not sure what the situation was at the time of First Battle of Bull Run/Battle of First Manassas in July 1861 I don't know what the level of defences were but probably considerably less. However it does seen that the victorious Confederate forces were as disordered as the Union ones they had defeated and whether they could have taken the city by storm is unknown but probably unlikely.
On the 2nd point I believe that the Netherlands had taken over from Venice as Europe's chief centre for glass making so possibly their production of lenses were better or cheaper? It says on Wiki, about the history of the telescope, that:
That might seen to suggest that the Netherlands were the 1st location in the west reported as developing them. It does however mention that Galileo built his own so possibly the relevant information spread very quickly. Didn't actually realise that there was a reasonably recognised patent system in place at this date.
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Post by American hist on Feb 9, 2024 2:29:34 GMT
Max Sinister, stevep, well first of all it is not impossible for Washington DC to be taken over to begin with but it is highly improbable by 1862 because George B McClellan set up rings of defenses to protect the capital however the capital could still be cut off and siege artillery had they been captured could at least lay siege to federal city and even the. I don’t really see it being taken over. However during the battle of bull run that is a window of remarkably probable possibility because only the only fort was guarding the potamic river to prevent foreign ships from attacking the capital .During 1861 time the other defenses were guns mounted on top of the arsenal. I already stated my facts that Davis and other military leaders should have at least tried to take in alternate leader ship thread when the union army was routed and beaten. If people think we should debate the likeliness of the confederates capturing Washington DC and maybe we should have a separate discussion. However I’m not asking when it happened as what would it mean for President Lincoln? It’s not that I am not afraid to protect my viewpoint And Abraham Lincoln was definitely scared of the possibilities that the Confederates could march up to DC that’s why he wanted DC to be well defended it even when it cause the union army to be disadvantage by sending troops to guard the capital depleting other Theaters from much-needed manpower and resources such as during the Shanandoah Valley campaign is one example out of many.
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Post by Otto Kretschmer on Feb 12, 2024 15:20:13 GMT
AHC/WI: Germanic or Balto Slavic horse nomads
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Feb 12, 2024 15:46:31 GMT
AHC/WI: Germanic or Balto Slavic horse nomads
Possibly if something butterflies the Huns or make them a lot weaker and the Goths stay in what's now Ukraine. Being on the steppes your likely to see some elements at least using horses increasingly, possibly initially in defence against nomads coming in from further east and then developing such a culture themselves. The wave of nomadic warrior cultures seem to have started in the east and swept westwards towards Europe and the ME - other than the ones powerful enough to also/instead go south into China but may not be impossible for some group to go the other way.
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575
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Post by 575 on Feb 12, 2024 16:30:19 GMT
AHC/WI: Germanic or Balto Slavic horse nomads
Possibly if something butterflies the Huns or make them a lot weaker and the Goths stay in what's now Ukraine. Being on the steppes your likely to see some elements at least using horses increasingly, possibly initially in defence against nomads coming in from further east and then developing such a culture themselves. The wave of nomadic warrior cultures seem to have started in the east and swept westwards towards Europe and the ME - other than the ones powerful enough to also/instead go south into China but may not be impossible for some group to go the other way.
Remember some plate in a book on Warriors of Antiquity with an Ostrogoth Heavy mace-armed armoured Horseman. Not really the kind of stuff of nomadic horse-archers. |
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