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Post by Otto Kretschmer on Jul 3, 2023 15:33:17 GMT
AHC: most successful Esperanto possible.
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miletus12
Squadron vice admiral
To get yourself lost, just follow the signs.
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Post by miletus12 on Jul 5, 2023 22:49:41 GMT
So here's one that I don't think has been explored much-WI Lyndon Johnson had won the Democratic nomination and possibly the election in 1960? We'd still lose Vietnam, but at least there would be a colony of Texans on Mars right now. |
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mspence
Warrant Officer
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Post by mspence on Jul 27, 2023 10:48:36 GMT
WI: Indian civil war after Gandhi's death
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Post by Max Sinister on Aug 5, 2023 12:29:56 GMT
WI the US had dealt with the Nazi-Soviet War as Truman wanted?
As in: "We should support the Soviets as long as the Germans are winning, and support the Germans as long as the Soviets are winning"?
That's ruthlessly pragmatic. And also against radical ideologues on both sides. Which is why both wouldn't like it.
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Post by Otto Kretschmer on Aug 6, 2023 17:38:10 GMT
AHC: save Yugoslavia with a PoD after 1980
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Post by TheRomanSlayer on Aug 7, 2023 6:50:06 GMT
AHC: save Yugoslavia with a PoD after 1980 Barring the rise of Milosevic, I'm not sure if you could also find someone who's committed to preserving Yugoslavia as we know it. However, the major elephant in the room is the large debt that Yugoslavia has accumulated as a result of numerous loans they received. |
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Post by Otto Kretschmer on Aug 7, 2023 14:22:01 GMT
AHC: a Muslim world that is as secular as Western Europe by the year 2000.
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mspence
Warrant Officer
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Post by mspence on Aug 8, 2023 13:30:24 GMT
WI: No Watergate & Nixon serves out his full second term. Does this mean no Carter in '76?
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Aug 8, 2023 20:29:05 GMT
WI: No Watergate & Nixon serves out his full second term. Does this mean no Carter in '76?
Probably unless something else comes up to derail his career. He seemed to be broadly popular, especially for getting the US out of Vietnam.
In turn I wonder if no Carter in 76 would have an impact on the Republican campaign in 80 and would whosoever Nixon's VP get the party nomination instead of Reagan?
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Aug 8, 2023 20:34:03 GMT
AHC: a Muslim world that is as secular as Western Europe by the year 2000.
Without big butterflies I suspect this would be impossible. If for no other reason than that the Muslim 'world' is so large and varied that its difficult to see secular government and principles applied across the bulk of it. Possibly some regions, with different developments might be distinctly secular, although possibly a communist type secularism is more likely than a western democratic one perhaps.
Well unless you go way back and the surge out of Arabia largely fails to conquer more than at most Syria and Iraq areas. Something which is relatively smaller and also similar in overall culture, coupled with possible threats from neighbours could see pressure for popular government being accepted to stop the region being conquered by someone or another?
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Post by Otto Kretschmer on Aug 9, 2023 11:01:11 GMT
AHC: a Muslim world that is as secular as Western Europe by the year 2000.
Without big butterflies I suspect this would be impossible. If for no other reason than that the Muslim 'world' is so large and varied that its difficult to see secular government and principles applied across the bulk of it. Possibly some regions, with different developments might be distinctly secular, although possibly a communist type secularism is more likely than a western democratic one perhaps.
Well unless you go way back and the surge out of Arabia largely fails to conquer more than at most Syria and Iraq areas. Something which is relatively smaller and also similar in overall culture, coupled with possible threats from neighbours could see pressure for popular government being accepted to stop the region being conquered by someone or another?
The Middle East was largely secular in 1950s-80s, if you can mske Arab socialism more successful, you can have at least the Arab world that is secular. |
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mspence
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Post by mspence on Aug 9, 2023 13:22:58 GMT
Maybe John Connally?
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Aug 9, 2023 14:51:01 GMT
Without big butterflies I suspect this would be impossible. If for no other reason than that the Muslim 'world' is so large and varied that its difficult to see secular government and principles applied across the bulk of it. Possibly some regions, with different developments might be distinctly secular, although possibly a communist type secularism is more likely than a western democratic one perhaps.
Well unless you go way back and the surge out of Arabia largely fails to conquer more than at most Syria and Iraq areas. Something which is relatively smaller and also similar in overall culture, coupled with possible threats from neighbours could see pressure for popular government being accepted to stop the region being conquered by someone or another?
The Middle East was largely secular in 1950s-80s, if you can mske Arab socialism more successful, you can have at least the Arab world that is secular.
Well the governments were secular - albeit in most cases dictatorships - but while they encouraged secular ideas, largely because those ideas were parts of the ruling groups plans - they didn't I believe actively suppress Muslim ideas and religious structures - other than for groups that openly opposed the regime.
Its possible however this could result in affected areas having a more liberal Islam after the dictatorships fall.
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575
Captain
There is no Purgatory for warcriminals - they go directly to Hell!
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Post by 575 on Aug 9, 2023 19:13:04 GMT
The Middle East was largely secular in 1950s-80s, if you can mske Arab socialism more successful, you can have at least the Arab world that is secular.
Well the governments were secular - albeit in most cases dictatorships - but while they encouraged secular ideas, largely because those ideas were parts of the ruling groups plans - they didn't I believe actively suppress Muslim ideas and religious structures - other than for groups that openly opposed the regime.
Its possible however this could result in affected areas having a more liberal Islam after the dictatorships fall.
I think the major problem was the ongoing Israeli - Palestinian conflict which the Arab regimes used to keep themselves in their seats and run Foreign Policy on. In the end all got radicalized leading to the present situation. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Aug 10, 2023 14:44:08 GMT
Well the governments were secular - albeit in most cases dictatorships - but while they encouraged secular ideas, largely because those ideas were parts of the ruling groups plans - they didn't I believe actively suppress Muslim ideas and religious structures - other than for groups that openly opposed the regime.
Its possible however this could result in affected areas having a more liberal Islam after the dictatorships fall.
I think the major problem was the ongoing Israeli - Palestinian conflict which the Arab regimes used to keep themselves in their seats and run Foreign Policy on. In the end all got radicalized leading to the present situation.
That's definitely a serious issue. None of the states in the region felt strong enough to make peace with Israel and accept its existence at the time so stoked up religious intolerance and that came back to bite many of them.
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