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Post by justiniano on Jul 27, 2022 3:56:05 GMT
Maybe Russia doesn't support Ethiopia in the war, seeing them as Monophysite or Monothelite heretics instead of orthodox brothers.
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Post by simon darkshade on Jul 27, 2022 5:04:43 GMT
Get Italy a bit more prepared beforehand. Using older rifles and field guns and not having substantial amounts of Maxims gives the Abyssinians the ability to use their 10:1 advantage at Adowa. Contrast that battle with Omdurman for how to achieve success in Africa in the 1890s.
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Post by justiniano on Jul 27, 2022 14:11:24 GMT
Get Italy a bit more prepared beforehand. Using older rifles and field guns and not having substantial amounts of Maxims gives the Abyssinians the ability to use their 10:1 advantage at Adowa. Ok then, a diff PoD that would make Russia go ''oh, well, defending them will be more expensive, besides they're oriental orthodox anyway, not eastern orthodox like us'' Italy starts to industrialize slightly earlier or slightly faster |
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Post by simon darkshade on Jul 27, 2022 14:17:59 GMT
Russia's role was not particularly effective on the ground. It makes for good political reading, but if Italy had won Adowa, the Russian political backing would be worth approximately sweet Fanny Adams.
Even then, the religious angle wasn't the dominant one for Russia, although it certainly existed; there greater part of their decision came down to the Game of Great Powers.
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Post by justiniano on Jul 27, 2022 15:32:40 GMT
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Post by simon darkshade on Jul 27, 2022 15:35:31 GMT
They take over Abyssinia, but find it a bit more than they can chew, even in the 1890s. It becomes a military and financial sink, despite some momentary prestige, and doesn't bring with it useful resources. Italy is probably disadvantaged sufficiently to not go for the same type of kerfuffle with the Turks in ~1911, absent all other butterflies, and being able to control both Libya and Abyssinia is beyond Italy's capability and competence at that point.
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Post by justiniano on Jul 27, 2022 15:44:01 GMT
simon darkshade, What would the economic impact on Ethiopia have been? Would they have been developed by Italy like Eritrea was? or would Italy have ''deindustrialized'' it like the British did with north Somalia & India?
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jul 27, 2022 15:49:17 GMT
simon darkshade , What would the economic impact on Ethiopia have been? Would they have been developed by Italy like Eritrea was? or would Italy have ''deindustrialized'' it like the British did with north Somalia & India? I understand you want to know thing, but this is also a discussion forum. Also as i have said before, no need to tag if you have not many members taking part in one thread, those who take part get notifications if somebody has posted in a thread they have posted in. |
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Post by simon darkshade on Jul 27, 2022 16:07:01 GMT
I’ll have to think on it; I think I’m coming down with something, so my mind isn’t quite focused on the Ethiopes at this moment.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jul 27, 2022 16:25:11 GMT
I’ll have to think on it; I think I’m coming down with something, so my mind isn’t quite focused on the Ethiopes at this moment. Well then, take care of your mind and body, Ethiopia is not going anywhere. |
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Post by justiniano on Jul 27, 2022 17:00:06 GMT
I’ll have to think on it; I think I’m coming down with something So sorry to hear, hope you get better soon |
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Post by simon darkshade on Jul 27, 2022 17:09:33 GMT
I’ve got a cold and a fuzzy head, not Ebola or cirrhosis of the eye. I’m simply not going to get to it tonight or tomorrow, not need the last rites or need to sail to Valinor.
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miletus12
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Post by miletus12 on Jul 27, 2022 20:20:15 GMT
Maybe Russia doesn't support Ethiopia in the war, seeing them as Monophysite or Monothelite heretics instead of orthodox brothers. Russian "support" was negligible. It was pure baloney, only manifesting in any form at all as arms sales after the Ethiopians won a battle at Adwa that very much resembles Chicamauga for inept bungling on the Italian side that handed the equally inept Menelik his "victory". Just like Rosecrans and McCook handed the imbecile Braxton Bragg a sort of "win", I have no idea what the heck; Baratieri, Albertone and Dabormida thought they were doing, but between columns colliding, misinterpretation of orders and just bad land navigation and no reconnaissance, they managed to open a hole 2 miles wide for the Ethiopians sitting on the facing hills, with the Italians trying to emerge from three separate passes into a valley and thence to advance and occupy high ground to their immediate front, to see. So: what does the dithering Menelik do? He dithers. His empress upbraids him, his "generals" chime in and then "CHARGE! for the gap". The results are somewhat similar, except there is no rock of Chicamauga among the Italians, though Albertone tried to retrieve his previous blunder by making a futile last stand. Baratieri had the original right idea, find high ground, sit on it and wait for the Ethiopians to forage themselves out of supply and dare them to attack entrenched Italian troops. Though Baratieri made a mess of his advance to contact, he "might" have annihilated Menelik with a week's postponement and those tactics. That would have "won" the first Italo-Ethiopian war, though like others I question the possibility of occupation and exploitation of the country. It is fairly huge and a difficult administrative and policing problem. See map.  |
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miletus12
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Post by miletus12 on Jul 27, 2022 22:17:37 GMT
Get Italy a bit more prepared beforehand. Using older rifles and field guns and not having substantial amounts of Maxims gives the Abyssinians the ability to use their 10:1 advantage at Adowa. Contrast that battle with Omdurman for how to achieve success in Africa in the 1890s. The Ethiopians were using these. They also started getting Berdans. The Italians could have used the Carcano, but a machine gun (probably at the time the Colt Browning would be their best bet because it is air cooled.) was going to be a problem because if it was not a Gatling or a Gardner, then the Italians would have problems getting Maxims from the British. |
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Post by justiniano on Jul 31, 2022 22:50:44 GMT
simon darkshade,Hey, since ur commenting on threads again I'm reminding u of this
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