575
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Post by 575 on Jan 6, 2023 20:43:21 GMT
Italy from 1939 ISOT to September 1914.
If its the 1939 borders that means they have Albania, parts of 1914 Austria and also Ethiopia. Which will cause some confusion and chaos right off. Then there's the fact their got far more advanced military forces than anyone else. Mussolini could go either way here. Austria has further lands he wants to claim which would mean war with Austria and Germany but as a dictator he might feel more attracted towards war with the EPs and seeking to seize say Tunisia and/or Egypt. That's if Vienna and Berlin give him a choice on the matter.
The logical step might be to say neutral for the moment until the economy has adjusted from the transition then decided what's in Italy's best longer term interests but then we're talking about Mussolini here so more likely he will go for something dramatic and showy, especially since he would be doubly confident about Italian power once he realises what's happened.
Agree.
As the man fought Austria and Germany during WWI he may decide to rip even more out of Austria at least to get what Italy wanted. OTOH he may want to kick the French for being French!
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miletus12
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Post by miletus12 on Jan 6, 2023 20:54:14 GMT
If its the 1939 borders that means they have Albania, parts of 1914 Austria and also Ethiopia. Which will cause some confusion and chaos right off. Then there's the fact their got far more advanced military forces than anyone else. Mussolini could go either way here. Austria has further lands he wants to claim which would mean war with Austria and Germany but as a dictator he might feel more attracted towards war with the EPs and seeking to seize say Tunisia and/or Egypt. That's if Vienna and Berlin give him a choice on the matter.
The logical step might be to say neutral for the moment until the economy has adjusted from the transition then decided what's in Italy's best longer term interests but then we're talking about Mussolini here so more likely he will go for something dramatic and showy, especially since he would be doubly confident about Italian power once he realises what's happened. The problem is that the 1939 Italy described is only apparently advanced in the realm of airpower and naval means. Their 1939 land army is hardly much better technologically than the 1914 one. And we still have the problem that the Italians do not have processed POL access in 1914 or raw materials, etc,. |
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Post by Otto Kretschmer on Jan 6, 2023 21:20:55 GMT
Let's say Italy joins the Central Powers.
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575
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There is no Purgatory for warcriminals - they go directly to Hell!
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Post by 575 on Jan 7, 2023 10:18:21 GMT
Let's say Italy joins the Central Powers. The most substatial effect of this would be if France decide to pull out troops of the frontline to move to FNA or keep what reserves they are mobilizing there in place to defend of an Italian offensive - Italy of 1939 had the majority of the Libyan troops in the Tripolitania/West and there is no Mareth-line ITTL. Germany will experience some drain of resources as Italy will be wanting coal as in 1939 and it still have to be railed south. AH may have some oil to spare but neutral Romania would be the real supplier.
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miletus12
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Post by miletus12 on Jan 7, 2023 11:34:40 GMT
Let's say Italy joins the Central Powers. The most substatial effect of this would be if France decide to pull out troops of the frontline to move to FNA or keep what reserves they are mobilizing there in place to defend of an Italian offensive - Italy of 1939 had the majority of the Libyan troops in the Tripolitania/West and there is no Mareth-line ITTL. Germany will experience some drain of resources as Italy will be wanting coal as in 1939 and it still have to be railed south. AH may have some oil to spare but neutral Romania would be the real supplier.
The first cracking towers and what we would call an industrial oil refinery would be built in 1857 - 1860 by the Mehedințeanu brothers in Ploiesti, Rumania. I suppose the 1914 displaced Italy would have access to Polish oil in the Bobrka oil field opened at about the same time which also at that time was barely inside the German Empire. It would be an interesting problem as the field was right at the border with Austria Hungary, and RUSSIA. Incidentally that is how the German Empire was able to put airplanes into the air during the Great War. They had oil fields and refineries as did Austria Hungary in that same region. |
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Post by Otto Kretschmer on Jan 7, 2023 11:45:28 GMT
2020 Russia, Iran and North Korea to 1992.
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miletus12
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Post by miletus12 on Jan 7, 2023 12:10:14 GMT
2020 Russia, Iran and North Korea to 1992. The Russian apartment block bombings have not happened yet. Then Yeltsin is suddenly displaced and the maniac sociopath Putin is in power? Two other maniacs, Kim Jong Un and Xi Jimping replace "moderates"? Central War by the time Clinton comes to power. NOT TOO GOOD. |
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575
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Post by 575 on Jan 7, 2023 12:10:27 GMT
The most substatial effect of this would be if France decide to pull out troops of the frontline to move to FNA or keep what reserves they are mobilizing there in place to defend of an Italian offensive - Italy of 1939 had the majority of the Libyan troops in the Tripolitania/West and there is no Mareth-line ITTL. Germany will experience some drain of resources as Italy will be wanting coal as in 1939 and it still have to be railed south. AH may have some oil to spare but neutral Romania would be the real supplier.
The first cracking towers and what we would call an industrial oil refinery would be built in 1857 - 1860 by the Mehedințeanu brothers in Ploiesti, Rumania. I suppose the 1914 displaced Italy would have access to Polish oil in the Bobrka oil field opened at about the same time which also at that time was barely inside the German Empire. It would be an interesting problem as the field was right at the border with Austria Hungary, and RUSSIA. Incidentally that is how the German Empire was able to put airplanes into the air during the Great War. They had oil fields and refineries as did Austria Hungary in that same region. Yes remember from recent reading that both Russia and Austria Hungary had developed oilfields in their parts of Galizia which post WWI become Polish territory. The Germans were keen to up production once they captured the oil fields in Russian Poland. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jan 7, 2023 12:38:56 GMT
The first cracking towers and what we would call an industrial oil refinery would be built in 1857 - 1860 by the Mehedințeanu brothers in Ploiesti, Rumania. I suppose the 1914 displaced Italy would have access to Polish oil in the Bobrka oil field opened at about the same time which also at that time was barely inside the German Empire. It would be an interesting problem as the field was right at the border with Austria Hungary, and RUSSIA. Incidentally that is how the German Empire was able to put airplanes into the air during the Great War. They had oil fields and refineries as did Austria Hungary in that same region. Yes remember from recent reading that both Russia and Austria Hungary had developed oilfields in their parts of Galizia which post WWI become Polish territory. The Germans were keen to up production once they captured the oil fields in Russian Poland.
That is a strong incentive to join the EPs as they have access to far more oil reserves and can to a large degree control Italian access if Italy seeks to go with the CPs.
Italy isn't that powerful in 1939 in part due to Mussolini's general incompetence but if it can get some half decent military leadership its effectively a titan compared to the 1914 powers. The army has firepower and armour that by 1914 standards is shattering and its air force is massively advanced on what the DT world has. While the navy with some limits is also very powerful compared to its 1914 equivalents, especially in the Med.
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Post by Otto Kretschmer on Jan 7, 2023 13:17:53 GMT
2020 North Korea to June 22nd 1941.
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Post by Otto Kretschmer on Jan 18, 2023 15:39:03 GMT
USSR of 1988 to June 22nd 1941.
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Zyobot
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Post by Zyobot on Jan 22, 2023 22:01:39 GMT
'2020 Korean Peninsula To 1950'.
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Zyobot
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Just a time-traveling robot stranded on Earth.
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Post by Zyobot on Jan 24, 2023 0:16:23 GMT
‘2010 US To 1950’.
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Post by Otto Kretschmer on Feb 18, 2023 9:03:38 GMT
India from 1950 ISOT to 1 AD.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Feb 18, 2023 15:08:15 GMT
India from 1950 ISOT to 1 AD.
India probably has as many people as the rest of the world combined and is likely to expand its borders considerably given the technological lead and the needs of the country. The Indus valley and OTL Bangladesh are definitely going to be 'regained'.
What they do after that and how things develop both in India and elsewhere I don't know. A lot of paths for good or ill. One point that occurred to me is that India would have all the world's existing Muslims - as that faith hasn't emerged yet and similarly for its small Christian population, some of whom at least would want to seek out their founder, currently a child/babe in Palestine.
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