stevep
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Post by stevep on Jan 5, 2022 10:46:53 GMT
Which was an idea from English common law which won't be developing here if the TL goes the way suggested. Even assuming than there is any sizeable 'English' settlement in N America or anywhere else in this scenario.
I suspect that English Common Law would develop in some form or other.
Not if you get a total suppression of civil powers by the monarchy. What was there in France before the revolution for instance?
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Post by halferking on Jan 5, 2022 20:12:02 GMT
To be fair to Henry II she did try to oust him. That is why she deserves her first husband and be a regent I think. I think Eleanor would be happier on her own ruling over Aquitaine. Eleanor's marriage to Louis was bad and her marriage to Henry wasn't particular better. Henry, 11 years her junior, had a healthy sexual appetite and was known to have had a long affair. Henry II rule was a bumpy one surrounded by rebellious nobles, the issue of inheritance and most serious of all - the murder of Thomas Becket - although Henry was not excommunicated, he did suffer humiliation and a loss of authority. His three eldest sons Henry, Richard and Geoffrey with assistance of their mother rose up and tried to remove their father, but it all fell apart. It appears that Eleanor recognised that her marriage to Henry was over - it had been thrown on the fire, gasoline poured on it and a match thrown in... It stands to reason that she may, if she had sons with Louis that perhaps she may have encouraged her sons to make a move against her husband. It may have had a more favourable outcome than the Great Revolt. Eleanor's power was Aquitaine, a vast sprawling Duchy that controlled south-western, central and western France over the centuries, so she may have stood a better chance of removing her husband. |
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Post by halferking on Jan 5, 2022 20:25:42 GMT
I suspect that English Common Law would develop in some form or other.
Not if you get a total suppression of civil powers by the monarchy. What was there in France before the revolution for instance?
Common Law is made up of case law, conventions and customs so these would still exist regardless of whether we had a Parliament or not. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jan 6, 2022 12:06:36 GMT
Not if you get a total suppression of civil powers by the monarchy. What was there in France before the revolution for instance?
Common Law is made up of case law, conventions and customs so these would still exist regardless of whether we had a Parliament or not.
Provided an autocratic monarch didn't decide to take control by basically issuing his own code of laws which would displace such ideas.
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oscssw
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Post by oscssw on Jan 6, 2022 16:03:05 GMT
Louis would have to have a complete personality change. Their marriage was doomed a son may have gone some way to smooth over the cracks, but it went much deeper than that her reputation was dragged through the mud and what didn't help was Louis intense jealousy that effectively kept Eleanor a prisoner. Eleanor would be Queen Mother of the future King of France and the King of England. The same is for her OTL grand daughter Blanche actually but Eleanor having a son with Louis VII would have made her a regent of France in some capacity after the death of her husband, which I think would likely happen sooner than later due to his stress with Eleanor. Henry II also imprisoned her IOTL. I'm a sucker for a good period piece about strong historical people. "The Lion in Winter", IMO, was a superb adaptation of James Goldman's play of the same name.
I have never seen a portrait of Eleanor of Aquitaine but she will always look and sound like Katharine Hepburn to me. Damn good movie with great replay value.
Judging just by the movie, I'd say she would have given Liz 1 a run for her money as greatest female ruler.
But that's just me....I'm funny that way. 
BK BK
Did you see that royal barge ? No way in hell that "thing" could handle The Channel in winter. Very low freeboard up forward and that "after castle" was just asking for trouble. IMO, FWIW.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jan 6, 2022 16:58:54 GMT
The same is for her OTL grand daughter Blanche actually but Eleanor having a son with Louis VII would have made her a regent of France in some capacity after the death of her husband, which I think would likely happen sooner than later due to his stress with Eleanor. Henry II also imprisoned her IOTL. I'm a sucker for a good period piece about strong historical people. "The Lion in Winter", IMO, was a superb adaptation of James Goldman's play of the same name.
I have never seen a portrait of Eleanor of Aquitaine but she will always look and sound like Katharine Hepburn to me. Damn good movie with great replay value.
Judging just by the movie, I'd say she would have given Liz 1 a run for her money as greatest female ruler.
But that's just me....I'm funny that way. 
BK BK
Did you see that royal barge ? No way in hell that "thing" could handle The Channel in winter. Very low freeboard up forward and that "after castle" was just asking for trouble. IMO, FWIW.
Remember seeing the film a long while ago and know what you mean about actors claiming roles. Liked it a lot but a grim story of failure. Must admit I never noticed the barge but then films in general attach to reality poorly whether in history, fantasy or even the modern day.  |
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Post by halferking on Jan 6, 2022 17:00:50 GMT
Common Law is made up of case law, conventions and customs so these would still exist regardless of whether we had a Parliament or not.
Provided an autocratic monarch didn't decide to take control by basically issuing his own code of laws which would displace such ideas.
The King was sort of in control of the legal system, as successive Monarchs of England built upon what went before. |
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kasumigenx
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Post by kasumigenx on Jan 6, 2022 19:25:55 GMT
That is why she deserves her first husband and be a regent I think. I think Eleanor would be happier on her own ruling over Aquitaine. Eleanor's marriage to Louis was bad and her marriage to Henry wasn't particular better. Henry, 11 years her junior, had a healthy sexual appetite and was known to have had a long affair. Henry II rule was a bumpy one surrounded by rebellious nobles, the issue of inheritance and most serious of all - the murder of Thomas Becket - although Henry was not excommunicated, he did suffer humiliation and a loss of authority. His three eldest sons Henry, Richard and Geoffrey with assistance of their mother rose up and tried to remove their father, but it all fell apart. It appears that Eleanor recognised that her marriage to Henry was over - it had been thrown on the fire, gasoline poured on it and a match thrown in... It stands to reason that she may, if she had sons with Louis that perhaps she may have encouraged her sons to make a move against her husband. It may have had a more favourable outcome than the Great Revolt. Eleanor's power was Aquitaine, a vast sprawling Duchy that controlled south-western, central and western France over the centuries, so she may have stood a better chance of removing her husband. I think Kate of Medici, Blanche of Castile and Eleanor of Aquitaine are basically similar, I think Louis VII could die decades earlier if she had a son with him, Jeanne of Albret is the opposite of Eleanor I think. I think Louis VII dying with a young son with Eleanor is the best outcome for her with Louis VII which would allow her to rule her duchy. |
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Post by halferking on Jan 6, 2022 23:08:07 GMT
I think Eleanor would be happier on her own ruling over Aquitaine. Eleanor's marriage to Louis was bad and her marriage to Henry wasn't particular better. Henry, 11 years her junior, had a healthy sexual appetite and was known to have had a long affair. Henry II rule was a bumpy one surrounded by rebellious nobles, the issue of inheritance and most serious of all - the murder of Thomas Becket - although Henry was not excommunicated, he did suffer humiliation and a loss of authority. His three eldest sons Henry, Richard and Geoffrey with assistance of their mother rose up and tried to remove their father, but it all fell apart. It appears that Eleanor recognised that her marriage to Henry was over - it had been thrown on the fire, gasoline poured on it and a match thrown in... It stands to reason that she may, if she had sons with Louis that perhaps she may have encouraged her sons to make a move against her husband. It may have had a more favourable outcome than the Great Revolt. Eleanor's power was Aquitaine, a vast sprawling Duchy that controlled south-western, central and western France over the centuries, so she may have stood a better chance of removing her husband. I think Kate of Medici, Blanche of Castile and Eleanor of Aquitaine are basically similar, I think Louis VII could die decades earlier if she had a son with him, Jeanne of Albret is the opposite of Eleanor I think. I think Louis VII dying with a young son with Eleanor is the best outcome for her with Louis VII which would allow her to rule her duchy. Eleanor had merged her Duchy with France when she married Louis VII. It might have had an effect on the 100 year war. |
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kasumigenx
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Post by kasumigenx on Jan 8, 2022 19:02:04 GMT
I think Kate of Medici, Blanche of Castile and Eleanor of Aquitaine are basically similar, I think Louis VII could die decades earlier if she had a son with him, Jeanne of Albret is the opposite of Eleanor I think. I think Louis VII dying with a young son with Eleanor is the best outcome for her with Louis VII which would allow her to rule her duchy. Eleanor had merged her Duchy with France when she married Louis VII. It might have had an effect on the 100 year war. They might acquire Brittany here instead. |
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