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Post by 575 on Dec 26, 2022 13:26:09 GMT
France 1951
Italy had become an annoyance which just had to be tolerated because of circumstances.
War in Algeria which it now amounted to had gone up the roof and most of the young male French population there had been called up for service as units from Metropolitan France had proven unwilling to serve so these were kept in Metropolitan France facing Italy or sent to Indo China.
The unrest in Indo China had flared up even more with Ho Chi Mihn receiving more aid from the Japanese and required even more troops to control the country. In some convoluted way service in Indo China seemed to be ok when Algeria wasn't. Perhaps it was the even more distant exotic location?
The Japanese covert aid to Ho Chi Mihn was more than an annoyance; France tried rallying others such as Britain and Germany to do something serious. China was also problematic as operations against Ho Chi Mihn's followers would often spill over but China had to understand this – bloody fools.
The Germans were in Korea by China's want. China though did have designs on Taiwan which seemed pretty obvious.
The insurrection in NEI was another problem as it could spread to the British in Malaya which they certainly didn't want to have to let go because of the Rubber plantations; either due to Brunai becoming entangled in NEI thus affecting the Straits Settlements economically or because of a local Insurrection in Malaya.
To get a picture of the different powers outlook to establish who might join in on Japan France held a meeting on the Cote d'Azur following a LoN gathering with Britain, Germany, the Netherlands and China – the Chinese seemed to be rather pleased to be invited though didn't seem surprised.
The Chinese did want to reconquer Taiwan but had realized they didn't have the Naval forces to do so at least not to take on the Imperial Japanese – they had the Army and Airforce to do an invasion but had to hold off the Japanese Navy. They were sure of being able to attain Airsupremacy and force the Japanese Carriers off their coast but jumping the Strait was another matter as they would have to rely on merchantmen for transport of the Army. Something was to be done to the Japanese Navys Battleships to keep from interfering with the Amphibious operation.
France was ready to commit two of its new Aircraf Carriers and a Group of Battleships and required light units as well as some land based Aircraft if the Chinese were allowing this but else station such in Korea.
Britain might upgrade the Commonwealth Far Eastern Squadron with another couple of Aircraft Carriers to supplement the two in Theater and a Squadron of Battleships to reinforce the CFES of four Battlecruisers and light units.
Germany was ready to send off a couple of Heavy Cruisers with light units but would rather like to reinforce the Chinese Airforce with Heavy Bombers, Coastal Airunits and Fighters of course and would like to send off a Submarine Squadron or two to send a clear signal to the Japanese Navy of keeping clear of the Strait of Formosa; the last proposal sent a shiver down the spine of the Royal Navy Admiral participating. Germany would also like to reinforce in Korea to be able to fend off any Japanese adventure across Tsushima Strait.
Contrary to the British the Chinese liked the German proposal a lot.
The Netherlands was ready to send off a Squadron of Submarines but had little else to contribute due to the situation in NEI.
Germany proposed a long time schedule to make the Chinese able to manufacture the needed Aircraft for their part of the operation as well as Tanks, Trucks and munitions as it would help in the deployment and supply. The other parties liked the proposal and the Chinese only asked for payment of the manufacture and delivered supply much to the amazement of the other powers and of course of recognition of Taiwan being Chinese.
Then the means of moving the needed units were discussed; the Germans pointed to that the shortest route would be through Suez as using the Panama Canal might put off the USA; the Italians might be annoyed as they considered Egypt an ally. The British promised to put the squeeze on King Farouk if necessary.
In other French Colonies unrest was also brewing mainly so in areas neighbouring Algeria; Morocco, Tunesia but also in French West Africa of Mauritania, Mali and Niger where the population was mainly of the Islamic confession as in Algeria.
Former Senegalese serving in the French Army were believed to be the driving force in French West Africa and a number of French Colonial Units raised within Colonies were disbanded as had been the case in Algeria and soon following Morocco and Tunesia. Not because they were found unreliable but to deny the weapons training to possible future adversaries.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Dec 26, 2022 21:13:41 GMT
Well that sounds a messy situation all round. France looks like its facing serious overstretch and could end up with a nasty crash. Especially if someone helps the Japanese in the proposed mission. Also it sounds, since the Germans are talking of supplying the capacity for China to manufacture units such as heavy bombers we're probably talking about several years at least so a hell of a lot could happen before then.
OTL in Malaya Britain had the big advantage that the opposition was largely by communists from the Chinese minority which helped isolate them from the Malay majority. Plus possibly aided by WWII Britain was able to organise a good hearts and minds operation. TTL there is no communist threat although if the rebels are predominantly from the Chinese minority then they might be isolated as before assuming that Britain follows a similar path. Or if the main threat might be rebels being supported by those in the DEI then many Malays might oppose such a move as Malaya would potentially face being absorbed by a much larger independent Indonesia, which would probably also siphon off a lot of the wealth Malaya generated from its rubber and tin operations.
I would suspect in the not too distant future the Dutch are likely to give up on Java and Sumatra which are heavily populated and generally hostile to their rule. However they could try a divide and rule operation in terms that many of the outlying islands might wish to avoid being dominated by Java. Especially those who aren't Muslim/Javanese. However that depends on the nature of the Dutch government at this time.
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Post by 575 on Dec 27, 2022 12:54:08 GMT
Well that sounds a messy situation all round. France looks like its facing serious overstretch and could end up with a nasty crash. Especially if someone helps the Japanese in the proposed mission. Also it sounds, since the Germans are talking of supplying the capacity for China to manufacture units such as heavy bombers we're probably talking about several years at least so a hell of a lot could happen before then.
OTL in Malaya Britain had the big advantage that the opposition was largely by communists from the Chinese minority which helped isolate them from the Malay majority. Plus possibly aided by WWII Britain was able to organise a good hearts and minds operation. TTL there is no communist threat although if the rebels are predominantly from the Chinese minority then they might be isolated as before assuming that Britain follows a similar path. Or if the main threat might be rebels being supported by those in the DEI then many Malays might oppose such a move as Malaya would potentially face being absorbed by a much larger independent Indonesia, which would probably also siphon off a lot of the wealth Malaya generated from its rubber and tin operations.
I would suspect in the not too distant future the Dutch are likely to give up on Java and Sumatra which are heavily populated and generally hostile to their rule. However they could try a divide and rule operation in terms that many of the outlying islands might wish to avoid being dominated by Java. Especially those who aren't Muslim/Javanese. However that depends on the nature of the Dutch government at this time.
It is messy and the French wants to grab at the roots of Evil. I won't expect anybody helping Japan though it is still a serious threat though more on this later. The Germans will move their heavy bombers to China to assist at invading Taiwan - though let the Chinese produce all the hardware possible. The British are worried the NEI troubles may spread to Brunei and fears action against Malaya which may as well be Japanese. Not so much the locals doing insurrection. ITTL I'll let the Dutch need a little more persuasion due to not having experienced WWII; being more gung-ho on own resources and with the aircraft OTL retained at home having been sent to NEI as planned - like the D-XXI Fighters. |
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Post by stevep on Dec 27, 2022 16:10:52 GMT
Well that sounds a messy situation all round. France looks like its facing serious overstretch and could end up with a nasty crash. Especially if someone helps the Japanese in the proposed mission. Also it sounds, since the Germans are talking of supplying the capacity for China to manufacture units such as heavy bombers we're probably talking about several years at least so a hell of a lot could happen before then.
OTL in Malaya Britain had the big advantage that the opposition was largely by communists from the Chinese minority which helped isolate them from the Malay majority. Plus possibly aided by WWII Britain was able to organise a good hearts and minds operation. TTL there is no communist threat although if the rebels are predominantly from the Chinese minority then they might be isolated as before assuming that Britain follows a similar path. Or if the main threat might be rebels being supported by those in the DEI then many Malays might oppose such a move as Malaya would potentially face being absorbed by a much larger independent Indonesia, which would probably also siphon off a lot of the wealth Malaya generated from its rubber and tin operations.
I would suspect in the not too distant future the Dutch are likely to give up on Java and Sumatra which are heavily populated and generally hostile to their rule. However they could try a divide and rule operation in terms that many of the outlying islands might wish to avoid being dominated by Java. Especially those who aren't Muslim/Javanese. However that depends on the nature of the Dutch government at this time.
It is messy and the French wants to grab at the roots of Evil. I won't expect anybody helping Japan though it is still a serious threat though more on this later. The Germans will move their heavy bombers to China to assist at invading Taiwan - though let the Chinese produce all the hardware possible. The British are worried the NEI troubles may spread to Brunei and fears action against Malaya which may as well be Japanese. Not so much the locals doing insurrection. ITTL I'll let the Dutch need a little more persuasion due to not having experienced WWII; being more gung-ho on own resources and with the aircraft OTL retained at home having been sent to NEI as planned - like the D-XXI Fighters.
What I was thinking here was most likely the US, less helping Japan itself than seeking to weaken European influence in the region in the interests of forcing decolonization. After all without WWII to shatter the European powers their still potential economic rivals to the US and especially with communism removed as a threat the European powers are probably at the top of the hit list of the US militants especially.
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Post by 575 on Dec 30, 2022 18:14:29 GMT
It is messy and the French wants to grab at the roots of Evil. I won't expect anybody helping Japan though it is still a serious threat though more on this later. The Germans will move their heavy bombers to China to assist at invading Taiwan - though let the Chinese produce all the hardware possible. The British are worried the NEI troubles may spread to Brunei and fears action against Malaya which may as well be Japanese. Not so much the locals doing insurrection. ITTL I'll let the Dutch need a little more persuasion due to not having experienced WWII; being more gung-ho on own resources and with the aircraft OTL retained at home having been sent to NEI as planned - like the D-XXI Fighters.
What I was thinking here was most likely the US, less helping Japan itself than seeking to weaken European influence in the region in the interests of forcing decolonization. After all without WWII to shatter the European powers their still potential economic rivals to the US and especially with communism removed as a threat the European powers are probably at the top of the hit list of the US militants especially.
Good point and been reading some more - had to look up on the US decolonization policy some days ago which will influence matters as it already does as the US is to some extend though not by Government financially backing the NEI rebels both to weaken Japan but also the Europeans access to oil from Far East with all the resulting effects. Am still working on the followup posts.
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Post by 575 on Dec 30, 2022 18:15:15 GMT
Britain 1951
As for France so Britain felt the unrest growing in the African Colonies; it seemed the Ethiopian – Italian War had become a folktale of Africans defeating Europeans all over Africa and political Independence Parties and anti-colonial Insurrection Groups popped up all over the Continent. Nobody really knew where the funds and weapons came from though most weapons were believed to be taken from armouries within the Colonies and as such the Insurrection Groups were weak but spirited.
Egyptian involvement sponsored by Italy were suspected too as it would detract French resources from confronting Italy in Europe.
Spain another suspect due to its adversity to France though well off Frenchmen liked to spend vacation there; the history of French interventions in Spain was deemed no small factor and some weapons caches found in different French Colonies seemed to be of Spanish origin but might have come all the way from South America.
The funding was much more difficult to sort out though it seemed some US corporations had interest mainly in raw materials in Africa but also in the Middle and Far East; labelling the USA the funder of insurrection groups were not possible even if the economic trails led west in some cases.
The US aversion of colonial rule was well known but also USA were a segregated society and it was difficult to pin a want of more non-white lands to rule except through economic domination – the Philippines seen as the example having attained independence but still close economically to the former colonial master.
In Kenya as in other areas of larger White settler groups such as Rhodesia South and North those settlers decided to politically repress those insurrection groups popping up with Whitehall being ready to supply the boots and Air units but in somewhat limited numbers due to the large area. Only the few numbers of the Insurrectionist fighters made it possible to cover all.
Politically it was possible to enroll the local populace of Indians, descendants of former indentured labourers and merchants who also mostly fell under the term of the Insurrectionist Groups of unwanted foreigners. The cooperation with these in East and South Africa made for much goodwill of Britain in Independent India, Bangladesh and Pakistan.
The stone in the shoe being South Africa where the arable lands were settled mainly by Boer farmers who were quite opposed to any benefitting politics to the Black and Coloured populations which stance served to unite the too Insurrectionist groups even if the Coloured seemed to be less intimidated and affected by the White minority rule.
Even if South Africa was ruled politically by a White minority it still in some ways were affected by sentiments within the Motherland – the British that is not the Boer's even among chose some of the rejective expressions of the British rule which had forced them into war against German brothers during 1914 was fading as the rulers of South Africa had been Boers too. Time had been kind to the Empire – mostly.
The major way of retaining political supremacy by the White settler communities in Africa was in the end economic.
In South Africa this had to some extend been exploited by the British descedants when in political rule by splitting whatever cooperation of Blacks and Coloured parties by giving economic priority to one and not the other which would in turn highten tensions between the two.
Still Armed forces and Police often would use their force to combat Insurrectionist groups mainly those hiding in the wastness of the Velt and South West Africa or in neighboring Portuguese colonies of Mozambique and Angola.
Though the Portuguese was claiming to be clamping down on such themselves it didn't seem so to the White South Africans. The Portuguese didn't protest the South African intrusions into their colonies as it was seen as beneficial to Portuguese continued rule.
Still the low intensity of Insurrections in Africa outside French Colonies didn't reach the European nations or weren't deemed of interest there and as long as the Boers of South Africa weren't going to leave the Empire they were tolerated at Whitehall.
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Post by stevep on Dec 30, 2022 20:13:08 GMT
Interesting and its going to get steadily hotter for the colonial powers all over Africa and southern Asia. Can't remember but who ended up the dominant player in Saudi Arabia TTL? Was it the US as OTL or Britain as sooner or later a lot of oil will be found there. If I recall correctly Britain still has a lot of influence in Iran, Iraq, Kuwait and the Gulf states so that would be a big potential issue. The success of the Italians in Libya is likely to boost interest even more OTL in that region.
It does sound like France is going to suffer badly in the shorter term then probably Britain latter on as the eastern and southern African colonies and dominion become more rebellious.
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Post by 575 on Dec 30, 2022 21:44:43 GMT
Interesting and its going to get steadily hotter for the colonial powers all over Africa and southern Asia. Can't remember but who ended up the dominant player in Saudi Arabia TTL? Was it the US as OTL or Britain as sooner or later a lot of oil will be found there. If I recall correctly Britain still has a lot of influence in Iran, Iraq, Kuwait and the Gulf states so that would be a big potential issue. The success of the Italians in Libya is likely to boost interest even more OTL in that region.
It does sound like France is going to suffer badly in the shorter term then probably Britain latter on as the eastern and southern African colonies and dominion become more rebellious.
Regarding Saudi-Arabia the US backed out of the oilprospecting as the Italians came online in Libya - so would rather be the British. The real British interest is in the eastern Mandate area - Iraq/Mosul and also Iran and generally a presence in the Persian Gulf. More on this soon.
France is going to suffer really now but also somewhat long term as the war in Algeria is barring the find of oil in Sahara and thus French control of it. Britain will try playing the Africans against the local Indians to take the heath off the white settlers which will serve for some time.
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Post by 575 on Dec 31, 2022 8:59:30 GMT
US - League of Nations 1951
The USA had never entered the LoN and didn't intend to do so but at times references would be made publicly of negotiations at the LoN and US policy on debated matter.
De-colonization had been a US issue since independence and the LoN debate on said matter would oft be addressed by the US Government with the USG demanding the abolition of colonial Empires and a willingness to economically aid former colonies though specifically – with the aftermath of the Great War and defaulting debter nations – demanding such aid channeled into schemes that would pay off so as to be able to repay the economic aid.
The Colonial Powers would scoff at the USG address' as that would only put former colonies into a debt bondage to the US and as such would achieve little actual independence and freedom of political aspirations but just being trasferred into US bonds.
USG also intensified economic interest in South America to corner European economic schemes both from Colonial Powers but also such non-colonial powers as Germany. USG would offer favorable tax terms to Companies scaling up their activities countering such as the German proxy-Airlines like “Aviacion Condor” in South America.
It also began a major oil prospecting scheme to corner the Europeans such as the Italians in the Middle East by reopening negotiations with the Saudi-Arabian King and initiating talks with the Arabs and Berber communities in Algeria to open prospecting there once the situation would calm so as these to be able to claim independence and have the economy to uphold it.
No wonder both Italy and France would protest the US probing of the Area as was Britain when the Mandate Areas of the Middle East were probed too.
There were also voices out of America argueing military backing on the anti-colonial policy but for the moment this was off the shelf at least in the Far East as everybody could see what was cooking; the USA would still sell oil and other materials to Japan and sell to China too. No idea to scale this down as it would prop up Japan and make China able to ward off the Europeans.
The militants did get some attention as USA had been building up its Fleets of Battleships and Large Cruisers for quite some time to be able to fight wars on the Oceans East and West.
Aircraft Carriers were also built but the ship class was still most untested except as a floating Airbase by the Japanese in its wars with the Sovietunion and China and the British - French in the 1935 Italian – Yugoslavian War. Both wars had seen Carriers deployed against opponents without its own so a real doctrine of their use was still very much not present.
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Post by stevep on Dec 31, 2022 14:14:55 GMT
US - League of Nations 1951 The USA had never entered the LoN and didn't intend to do so but at times references would be made publicly of negotiations at the LoN and US policy on debated matter. De-colonization had been a US issue since independence and the LoN debate on said matter would oft be addressed by the US Government with the USG demanding the abolition of colonial Empires and a willingness to economically aid former colonies though specifically – with the aftermath of the Great War and defaulting debter nations – demanding such aid channeled into schemes that would pay off so as to be able to repay the economic aid. The Colonial Powers would scoff at the USG address' as that would only put former colonies into a debt bondage to the US and as such would achieve little actual independence and freedom of political aspirations but just being trasferred into US bonds. USG also intensified economic interest in South America to corner European economic schemes both from Colonial Powers but also such non-colonial powers as Germany. USG would offer favorable tax terms to Companies scaling up their activities countering such as the German proxy-Airlines like “Aviacion Condor” in South America. It also began a major oil prospecting scheme to corner the Europeans such as the Italians in the Middle East by reopening negotiations with the Saudi-Arabian King and initiating talks with the Arabs and Berber communities in Algeria to open prospecting there once the situation would calm so as these to be able to claim independence and have the economy to uphold it. No wonder both Italy and France would protest the US probing of the Area as was Britain when the Mandate Areas of the Middle East were probed too. There were also voices out of America argueing military backing on the anti-colonial policy but for the moment this was off the shelf at least in the Far East as everybody could see what was cooking; the USA would still sell oil and other materials to Japan and sell to China too. No idea to scale this down as it would prop up Japan and make China able to ward off the Europeans. The militants did get some attention as USA had been building up its Fleets of Battleships and Large Cruisers for quite some time to be able to fight wars on the Oceans East and West. Aircraft Carriers were also built but the ship class was still most untested except as a floating Airbase by the Japanese in its wars with the Sovietunion and China and the British - French in the 1935 Italian – Yugoslavian War. Both wars had seen Carriers deployed against opponents without its own so a real doctrine of their use was still very much not present.
One problem the US will have in dominating the economies of Latin America, especially the southern cone ones is that Europe are simply much better partners than the US. At least unless their become as protectionist as the US has and even then many raw material exports - whether food stuffs or minerals - are items that can gain access to European markets because their welcome while in the US its own big agricultural and mining lobbies will impose big barriers on trade from those regions.
Not sure what the situation is in Saudi? Your reply to my last post seemed to suggest Britain had the main position there but this one seems to suggest that the US is challenging that and basically aiming to monopolize control of all oil production in the N Africa/ME other than Italian Libya where they don't have an in at the moment.
Without the massive destruction of OTL WWII the European powers will be significantly harder to push out of markets than even a far more interventionist US. The latter will have sheer size as an advantage but how long will the American public be happy with the government committing substantial resources to seeking to control a large part of the world?
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Post by 575 on Dec 31, 2022 19:00:08 GMT
Found this and is still reading but clearly outline American or one American's resentment of British economic policy. Without WWII the situation will be much different and having recovered from recession America is wanting to be back on the world market for its share. So its a way of developing the undeveloped markets and get payment for the goods. Not just in South America but world wide and hence my remark some pages back at Indian Independence 1947 that the US looked forward to get into that marked. Of course the US won't buy in on stuff it already have or produce but what will create a profit - or sell their own. Or in the case of Germany squeeze out their Airline and supplant it with some US ones. Saudi is looking for income as OTL and wants to get the oilfields developed - the US is willing to initiate such even if challenging Britain. The two isn't buddies ITTL. At the moment its a case of cashing in on the market and if the Europeans are so wealthy they ought'a pay back the loans they defaulted on during the recession. Anti-colonialism is just a vehicle/stick to nudge the Europeans. One European - France isn't that wealthy anymore as they are fighting two costly wars far from home and ready to embark on a third. Italy is up and coming but also enmeshed in war though not that far from home and trying to build an alliance of the poor Med countries which also cost. *** I know it may look sketchy but there is a line to it; however splitting the TL up in numerous entries a year is needed for me to keep track of the various development around the World or I'll lose control and overwiev of it. 
Just relax and lean back - it'll get way worse soon. Just have a myriad of posts to finish 1951 so we'll be able ot get on with the juicy stuff!  |
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Post by 575 on Jan 1, 2023 10:21:54 GMT
Yugoslavia – Third Balkan War 1951
The Romanians had been able to evict the Hungarians from their gains of Romanian Territory and were now pushing on into the Puszta (Hungarian Plain). The Hungarian Army Brigades were falling apart as Hungary had been robbed of weapons support from Italy through Yugoslavia and Austria though some did fight on with whats at hand.
The Romanians were skirting the Yugoslav border in the south moving upon the Danube River and Szeged just north of the Yugoslav border; which city was subjected to artillery shelling across river once the Romanians reached the Danube.
The second Romanian advance from out of Cluj towards Oradia Mare on the Hungarian border and then west to Theiss River crossing; doing that crossing would open the road to Budapest. With the German Mountain Division in Vienna and the Czechoslovak Armoured Divisions on the northern bank of the Danube 40 km's northwest of Budapest the Hungarians knew the game was up and asked for an armistige.
The Croats had retreated from the immediate vicinity of Italian Fiume and Zara but kept a visible presence to leave the Italians in no doubt that they were ready to fight for their part of Yugoslavia – Croatia - which had been declared an Independent state. West of their capital Zagreb the Croats were fighting the Serbs retreating from Slovenia as they were also doing in Slavonia west of the Danube far east of Zagreb. Further south in Dalmatia the Croatians were also battling the Serbs.
The victorious Slovenians had opened negotiations with the Austrians and Germans needing a secure back should the Italians decided their country would be a nice thouroughfare to Hungary – both nations were willing to talk and act.
The Greeks and Bulgarians had entered a truce which still mostly isolated the Greek Army in Thrake but left it to itself and fighting the Turks while the Bulgarians battled the Serbs in Macedonia and southern Serbia.
Internally the Greeks debated to leave the fighting in Anatolia and go for Macedonia; the Italians would not like it and to a large extend they were dependant on Italy for supplies and oil.
Anatolia it would be – with Izmir under Greek control they had moved inland and now controlled the western Anatolia from Bursa in the north just south of the Sea of Marmara to Usak in the South.
South of this the Italians had reached Antalya on the Mediterranean coast controlling the southwest corner of Anatolia.
At this point the Italians initiated talks with the Turks though having notified the Greeks of their intentions. To say the Greeks were furious would be an understatement of magnitude and made for more talks at Parliament for taking the war to Macedonia.
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Post by stevep on Jan 1, 2023 12:15:19 GMT
Yugoslavia – Third Balkan War 1951 The Romanians had been able to evict the Hungarians from their gains of Romanian Territory and were now pushing on into the Puszta (Hungarian Plain). The Hungarian Army Brigades were falling apart as Hungary had been robbed of weapons support from Italy through Yugoslavia and Austria though some did fight on with whats at hand. The Romanians were skirting the Yugoslav border in the south moving upon the Danube River and Szeged just north of the Yugoslav border; which city was subjected to artillery shelling across river once the Romanians reached the Danube. The second Romanian advance from out of Cluj towards Oradia Mare on the Hungarian border and then west to Theiss River crossing; doing that crossing would open the road to Budapest. With the German Mountain Division in Vienna and the Czechoslovak Armoured Divisions on the northern bank of the Danube 40 km's northwest of Budapest the Hungarians knew the game was up and asked for an armistige. The Croats had retreated from the immediate vicinity of Italian Fiume and Zara but kept a visible presence to leave the Italians in no doubt that they were ready to fight for their part of Yugoslavia – Croatia - which had been declared an Independent state. West of their capital Zagreb the Croats were fighting the Serbs retreating from Slovenia as they were also doing in Slavonia west of the Danube far east of Zagreb. Further south in Dalmatia the Croatians were also battling the Serbs. The victorious Slovenians had opened negotiations with the Austrians and Germans needing a secure back should the Italians decided their country would be a nice thouroughfare to Hungary – both nations were willing to talk and act. The Greeks and Bulgarians had entered a truce which still mostly isolated the Greek Army in Thrake but left it to itself and fighting the Turks while the Bulgarians battled the Serbs in Macedonia and southern Serbia. Internally the Greeks debated to leave the fighting in Anatolia and go for Macedonia; the Italians would not like it and to a large extend they were dependant on Italy for supplies and oil. Anatolia it would be – with Izmir under Greek control they had moved inland and now controlled the western Anatolia from Bursa in the north just south of the Sea of Marmara to Usak in the South. South of this the Italians had reached Antalya on the Mediterranean coast controlling the southwest corner of Anatolia. At this point the Italians initiated talks with the Turks though having notified the Greeks of their intentions. To say the Greeks were furious would be an understatement of magnitude and made for more talks at Parliament for taking the war to Macedonia.
If Italy is planning on peace with Turkey but will support Greek gains - rather than leave them in the lurch - they would be stupid to consider attacking Bulgaria as that would likely alienate Italy and leave Greece isolated. They might then be vulnerable to a Turkish counter strike as happened OTL in the 1920-22 war.
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Post by 575 on Jan 1, 2023 12:40:23 GMT
Yugoslavia – Third Balkan War 1951 The Romanians had been able to evict the Hungarians from their gains of Romanian Territory and were now pushing on into the Puszta (Hungarian Plain). The Hungarian Army Brigades were falling apart as Hungary had been robbed of weapons support from Italy through Yugoslavia and Austria though some did fight on with whats at hand. The Romanians were skirting the Yugoslav border in the south moving upon the Danube River and Szeged just north of the Yugoslav border; which city was subjected to artillery shelling across river once the Romanians reached the Danube. The second Romanian advance from out of Cluj towards Oradia Mare on the Hungarian border and then west to Theiss River crossing; doing that crossing would open the road to Budapest. With the German Mountain Division in Vienna and the Czechoslovak Armoured Divisions on the northern bank of the Danube 40 km's northwest of Budapest the Hungarians knew the game was up and asked for an armistige. The Croats had retreated from the immediate vicinity of Italian Fiume and Zara but kept a visible presence to leave the Italians in no doubt that they were ready to fight for their part of Yugoslavia – Croatia - which had been declared an Independent state. West of their capital Zagreb the Croats were fighting the Serbs retreating from Slovenia as they were also doing in Slavonia west of the Danube far east of Zagreb. Further south in Dalmatia the Croatians were also battling the Serbs. The victorious Slovenians had opened negotiations with the Austrians and Germans needing a secure back should the Italians decided their country would be a nice thouroughfare to Hungary – both nations were willing to talk and act. The Greeks and Bulgarians had entered a truce which still mostly isolated the Greek Army in Thrake but left it to itself and fighting the Turks while the Bulgarians battled the Serbs in Macedonia and southern Serbia. Internally the Greeks debated to leave the fighting in Anatolia and go for Macedonia; the Italians would not like it and to a large extend they were dependant on Italy for supplies and oil. Anatolia it would be – with Izmir under Greek control they had moved inland and now controlled the western Anatolia from Bursa in the north just south of the Sea of Marmara to Usak in the South. South of this the Italians had reached Antalya on the Mediterranean coast controlling the southwest corner of Anatolia. At this point the Italians initiated talks with the Turks though having notified the Greeks of their intentions. To say the Greeks were furious would be an understatement of magnitude and made for more talks at Parliament for taking the war to Macedonia.
If Italy is planning on peace with Turkey but will support Greek gains - rather than leave them in the lurch - they would be stupid to consider attacking Bulgaria as that would likely alienate Italy and leave Greece isolated. They might then be vulnerable to a Turkish counter strike as happened OTL in the 1920-22 war.
Indeed they might - and they will continue debating what objective to pursue. Both of course considered almost sacred to the Greeks. |
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575
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There is no Purgatory for warcriminals - they go directly to Hell!
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Post by 575 on Jan 2, 2023 15:26:59 GMT
Germany 1951 A change of Government during fall 1951 with a coalition of Conservatives centered around a new Nationalist party coming into power that wanted a Germany First made for German involvement in Foreign Adventures being dissolved and as part of this the German troop contingent were recalled from Korea. These actions made for written critique from Generaloberst Röhm and other former Military Mission Commanders to China which weighed in heavily on the political debate. France and the other possible participants in a war on Japan wasn't informed Germany just stayed off the following meetings and as no formal alliance had been made no political action in the open could be undertaken and wasn't wanted as it would alert the Japanese. For several months the French were biting nails and the Chinese were scolding the Germans when the German Government fell due to a heated debate at Parliament regarding the road transportation prices in Eastern Germany and East Prussia as well as removal of Government subsidizing of the agricultural producers in those areas of Germany to be able to sell their produce at reduced prizes in mainly the Baltic States. Apparently Government had trusted the mandate of the constituency to ensure its survival but mainly the Junkers and smaller Peasants of the affected areas wanted it different and so did the Socialdemocratic Party that had instituted the bills during the recession to ensure the support of the lands in question to call for a vote at Parliament of no confidence. Government fell as mainly the Junkers publicly distanced themselves from the Conservative parties economic policy which was a shock to those. Germany went back to the negotiating table regarding War on Japan; it also began rebuilding a wharf in Shanghai's port area tailoring it to building Submarines to avoid moving units around the Globe for the upcoming conflict though the Germans would still be providing the Forces promised earlier and reinforce the Army contingent. Due to the mountainous areas of the Far East the Mountain Division because of its training and in light of its recent deployment were added to the already allocated formations. Of course Generaloberst Röhm temporarily made Field Marshal was to command the ground forces; Chief of Staff Generalleutnant v. Manstein. This and the postponement of operations had served to make the Chinese buildup more armament stores than originally planned.
(Utter silliness isn't unheard off in politics of my country or Germany to topple Government - just wanted to spice it up with real life politics.. ) |
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