575
Captain
There is no Purgatory for warcriminals - they go directly to Hell!
Posts: 2,732 
Likes: 4,108
|
Post by 575 on Dec 18, 2022 11:01:02 GMT
1951
Death of King Carl 1 of Finland succeeded by his son Prince Carl as King Carl 2.
There had been a scandal which had been repressed during 1936 when the young Prince had been an officer of the Finn Royal Guards. Prince Carl being party to a Swedish Military Mission visiting Ethiopia preceeding and paving the way of the Swedish Military Mission to Ethiopia by 1943 during the Ethiopian-Italian War had fallen in love with an Ethiopian Royal Daughter and told his parents he wanted to marry her. By the time of the Ethiopian-Italian War Prince Carl as the heir to the throne had been recalled to Helsinki and had a very serious talk with his parents.
Following this he went to Denmark for a family visit returning from which he told his parents he wanted to marry his cousin Princess Katharine of Greece that he had met during his stay in Denmark during the family gatherings that summer. Happy that their son had become attracted to a Princess of the Greek Royal House and of the Danish Royal House Carl received their blessings marrying two years later.
As in the case of his late uncle Gustavus 5 funeral service the previous year this took place in snowclad Helsinki during late October.
During the Nordic PM's meeting at Helsinki Prof. Niels Bohr announced that the Nuclear Bomb prototype was ready for testing and a test site had to be found. An area preferably uninhabited should be selected; Iceland and Greenland both held such though something close to might be found in Sweden or Finland. Another possiblity would be negotiating the test being done in a British controlled territory as the British had been investing heavily in the project.
The five PM's decided to take the matter to Whitehall even though both Greenland and Iceland looked promising though a small island like Bear Island or off the Greenland coast might also be feasiable.
|
|
lordroel
Administrator
Posts: 67,971
Likes: 49,378
|
Post by lordroel on Dec 18, 2022 11:20:21 GMT
1951 Death of King Carl 1 of Finland succeeded by his son Prince Carl as King Carl 2. There had been a scandal which had been repressed during 1936 when the young Prince had been an officer of the Finn Royal Guards. Prince Carl being party to a Swedish Military Mission visiting Ethiopia preceeding and paving the way of the Swedish Military Mission to Ethiopia by 1943 during the Ethiopian-Italian War had fallen in love with an Ethiopian Royal Daughter and told his parents he wanted to marry her. By the time of the Ethiopian-Italian War Prince Carl as the heir to the throne had been recalled to Helsinki and had a very serious talk with his parents. Following this he went to Denmark for a family visit returning from which he told his parents he wanted to marry his cousin Princess Katharine of Greece that he had met during his stay in Denmark during the family gatherings that summer. Happy that their son had become attracted to a Princess of the Greek Royal House and of the Danish Royal House Carl received their blessings marrying two years later. As in the case of his late uncle Gustavus 5 funeral service the previous year this took place in snowclad Helsinki during late October. During the Nordic PM's meeting at Helsinki Prof. Niels Bohr announced that the Nuclear Bomb prototype was ready for testing and a test site had to be found. An area preferably uninhabited should be selected; Iceland and Greenland both held such though something close to might be found in Sweden or Finland. Another possiblity would be negotiating the test being done in a British controlled territory as the British had been investing heavily in the project. The five PM's decided to take the matter to Whitehall even though both Greenland and Iceland looked promising though a small island like Bear Island or off the Greenland coast might also be feasiable. Would look better if it is Death of King Carl I of Finland succeeded by his son Prince Carl as King Carl II. |
|
575
Captain
There is no Purgatory for warcriminals - they go directly to Hell!
Posts: 2,732
Likes: 4,108
|
Post by 575 on Dec 18, 2022 11:23:21 GMT
1951 Death of King Carl 1 of Finland succeeded by his son Prince Carl as King Carl 2. There had been a scandal which had been repressed during 1936 when the young Prince had been an officer of the Finn Royal Guards. Prince Carl being party to a Swedish Military Mission visiting Ethiopia preceeding and paving the way of the Swedish Military Mission to Ethiopia by 1943 during the Ethiopian-Italian War had fallen in love with an Ethiopian Royal Daughter and told his parents he wanted to marry her. By the time of the Ethiopian-Italian War Prince Carl as the heir to the throne had been recalled to Helsinki and had a very serious talk with his parents. Following this he went to Denmark for a family visit returning from which he told his parents he wanted to marry his cousin Princess Katharine of Greece that he had met during his stay in Denmark during the family gatherings that summer. Happy that their son had become attracted to a Princess of the Greek Royal House and of the Danish Royal House Carl received their blessings marrying two years later. As in the case of his late uncle Gustavus 5 funeral service the previous year this took place in snowclad Helsinki during late October. During the Nordic PM's meeting at Helsinki Prof. Niels Bohr announced that the Nuclear Bomb prototype was ready for testing and a test site had to be found. An area preferably uninhabited should be selected; Iceland and Greenland both held such though something close to might be found in Sweden or Finland. Another possiblity would be negotiating the test being done in a British controlled territory as the British had been investing heavily in the project. The five PM's decided to take the matter to Whitehall even though both Greenland and Iceland looked promising though a small island like Bear Island or off the Greenland coast might also be feasiable. Would look better if it is Death of King Carl I of Finland succeeded by his son Prince Carl as King Carl II. Don't disagree but I have been using numbers for Kings instead of Roman Numerals so like to continue this. |
|
lordroel
Administrator
Posts: 67,971
Likes: 49,378
|
Post by lordroel on Dec 18, 2022 11:50:02 GMT
Would look better if it is Death of King Carl I of Finland succeeded by his son Prince Carl as King Carl II. Don't disagree but I have been using numbers for Kings instead of Roman Numerals so like to continue this. Thanks for the responds. |
|
stevep
Fleet admiral
Posts: 24,834
Likes: 13,224
|
Post by stevep on Dec 18, 2022 15:41:32 GMT
1951 Death of King Carl 1 of Finland succeeded by his son Prince Carl as King Carl 2. There had been a scandal which had been repressed during 1936 when the young Prince had been an officer of the Finn Royal Guards. Prince Carl being party to a Swedish Military Mission visiting Ethiopia preceeding and paving the way of the Swedish Military Mission to Ethiopia by 1943 during the Ethiopian-Italian War had fallen in love with an Ethiopian Royal Daughter and told his parents he wanted to marry her. By the time of the Ethiopian-Italian War Prince Carl as the heir to the throne had been recalled to Helsinki and had a very serious talk with his parents. Following this he went to Denmark for a family visit returning from which he told his parents he wanted to marry his cousin Princess Katharine of Greece that he had met during his stay in Denmark during the family gatherings that summer. Happy that their son had become attracted to a Princess of the Greek Royal House and of the Danish Royal House Carl received their blessings marrying two years later. As in the case of his late uncle Gustavus 5 funeral service the previous year this took place in snowclad Helsinki during late October. During the Nordic PM's meeting at Helsinki Prof. Niels Bohr announced that the Nuclear Bomb prototype was ready for testing and a test site had to be found. An area preferably uninhabited should be selected; Iceland and Greenland both held such though something close to might be found in Sweden or Finland. Another possiblity would be negotiating the test being done in a British controlled territory as the British had been investing heavily in the project. The five PM's decided to take the matter to Whitehall even though both Greenland and Iceland looked promising though a small island like Bear Island or off the Greenland coast might also be feasiable.
Had to do a double take for a minute because the last page started with the death of a Scandinavia king so until I noticed it was Finland rather than Sweden I was wondering if something had gone wrong with the TL. 
One issue with the nuclear tests would be how secret do they want to keep it? If they involve Britain and [to the best of both parties knowledge] no one else has successfully tested a bomb then the British will definitely have a price in terms of some inside knowledge of the details to help their own programme. However they would also be interested in keeping any technological details secret from 3rd parties. Wanting to keep it secret would be useful as as soon as other powers know about a successful test the nuclear race will accelerate rapidly. Things could get very tense.
It could be the best approach however as a test in Greenland is likely to make Washington less than happy and depending on how the government and people react that could have nasty consequences, up to and including the US seeking to remove foreign control of Greenland and Iceland to push any Scandinavia bomb out of range - currently anyway - of the US. For this reason I suspect that both Britain and Canada would be unwilling to have any test sight in Canada so Australia [as OTL] or one of the isolated island groups are the most likely candidates.
One difference here of course is that with the collapse of the USSR and hence the lack - as far as I'm aware - of any communist state your less likely to have ideological motivated spies in any of the bomb projects.
|
|
575
Captain
There is no Purgatory for warcriminals - they go directly to Hell!
Posts: 2,732
Likes: 4,108
|
Post by 575 on Dec 18, 2022 18:06:33 GMT
1951 Death of King Carl 1 of Finland succeeded by his son Prince Carl as King Carl 2. There had been a scandal which had been repressed during 1936 when the young Prince had been an officer of the Finn Royal Guards. Prince Carl being party to a Swedish Military Mission visiting Ethiopia preceeding and paving the way of the Swedish Military Mission to Ethiopia by 1943 during the Ethiopian-Italian War had fallen in love with an Ethiopian Royal Daughter and told his parents he wanted to marry her. By the time of the Ethiopian-Italian War Prince Carl as the heir to the throne had been recalled to Helsinki and had a very serious talk with his parents. Following this he went to Denmark for a family visit returning from which he told his parents he wanted to marry his cousin Princess Katharine of Greece that he had met during his stay in Denmark during the family gatherings that summer. Happy that their son had become attracted to a Princess of the Greek Royal House and of the Danish Royal House Carl received their blessings marrying two years later. As in the case of his late uncle Gustavus 5 funeral service the previous year this took place in snowclad Helsinki during late October. During the Nordic PM's meeting at Helsinki Prof. Niels Bohr announced that the Nuclear Bomb prototype was ready for testing and a test site had to be found. An area preferably uninhabited should be selected; Iceland and Greenland both held such though something close to might be found in Sweden or Finland. Another possiblity would be negotiating the test being done in a British controlled territory as the British had been investing heavily in the project. The five PM's decided to take the matter to Whitehall even though both Greenland and Iceland looked promising though a small island like Bear Island or off the Greenland coast might also be feasiable.
Had to do a double take for a minute because the last page started with the death of a Scandinavia king so until I noticed it was Finland rather than Sweden I was wondering if something had gone wrong with the TL.
One issue with the nuclear tests would be how secret do they want to keep it? If they involve Britain and [to the best of both parties knowledge] no one else has successfully tested a bomb then the British will definitely have a price in terms of some inside knowledge of the details to help their own programme. However they would also be interested in keeping any technological details secret from 3rd parties. Wanting to keep it secret would be useful as as soon as other powers know about a successful test the nuclear race will accelerate rapidly. Things could get very tense.
It could be the best approach however as a test in Greenland is likely to make Washington less than happy and depending on how the government and people react that could have nasty consequences, up to and including the US seeking to remove foreign control of Greenland and Iceland to push any Scandinavia bomb out of range - currently anyway - of the US. For this reason I suspect that both Britain and Canada would be unwilling to have any test sight in Canada so Australia [as OTL] or one of the isolated island groups are the most likely candidates.
One difference here of course is that with the collapse of the USSR and hence the lack - as far as I'm aware - of any communist state your less likely to have ideological motivated spies in any of the bomb projects.
Yes there are going to be some change of Royalty during this decade - not just in Scandinavia.
Good observation of using Greenland as a testsite - my first was to go with Oz as OTL but would wait for any possible reactions/thoughts - very much appreciated. This also plays nicely into the next few years!
No ideological spies ITTL except for the lonely Turk - if any. The Russian Republic is mopping up the Sovietunion in Moscow but I'll get back to that later.
|
|
575
Captain
There is no Purgatory for warcriminals - they go directly to Hell!
Posts: 2,732
Likes: 4,108
|
Post by 575 on Dec 22, 2022 19:29:37 GMT
Television II 1951
The Funeral Service of King Gustavus 5. had been the first major direct transmission in Nordic Television and had attracted a lot of viewers and also been an occasion to remind the audiences of the history of the Nordics the development since 1905 and the since Great War forged strong bonds which had been put to the ultimate test during the Soviet attack on Finland last year.
During the year the various Football matches of the Nordic Championship had been transmitted in Television which had been an even greater success than the Gustavus funeral service and which had actually boosted the sales of Television sets. It was widely rumoured that besides a Car a Television set was the most wanted consumers item of Nordic families.
Because of this popularity and the sales of Television sets the upcoming World Cup of 1954 was much awaited by Nordic Football fans and it was much discussed that the 1950 World Cup had been an opportunity missed for the national networks.
In Germany sports had early on been a popular part of Television transmissions as the country was lacking a Royal house and the diversity of the large country was enough to make for several Channel Networks to appear early on.
Also the traditional German addiction to health and physical fitness – which of course wasn't universal as many Beerhall addicts would point to – made for Sport to be deemed an area fit for increasing national wiever rates and politically want of unity. Its a long way from Konigsberg in East Prussia to Berlin – Hamburg – the Ruhr District and Munich no less the differences in religion and regional history all serving as something to unite the nation even more to be opted in on by politicians.
There the transmission of the 1950 World Cup had made for many a Nordic travelling family get stranded for weeks during the Summer Holidays because of the men and sons had wanted to watch the matches as reported later in many Female and Family Weeklies readers columns to having disrupted the family Summer Vacation.
The Funeral Service transmission of King Carl of Finland had shown live images of Helsinki where the Service were held but also some TV-crews had visited the battlefields of 1945 to be able to get even more interesting footage to show - and a rise in numbers of wievers.
|
|
575
Captain
There is no Purgatory for warcriminals - they go directly to Hell!
Posts: 2,732
Likes: 4,108
|
Post by 575 on Dec 23, 2022 8:27:44 GMT
I may have a pause in updates - read a few post's in an ISOT TL on ze other zite which prompted the usual view of the coherence of the British Empire which would have quite some influenze on ITTL world wide. Here #753 onwards if you are a member. Any input would be much appreciated. |
|
stevep
Fleet admiral
Posts: 24,834
Likes: 13,224
|
Post by stevep on Dec 23, 2022 11:59:41 GMT
Television II 1951 The Funeral Service of King Gustavus 5. had been the first major direct transmission in Nordic Television and had attracted a lot of viewers and also been an occasion to remind the audiences of the history of the Nordics the development since 1905 and the since Great War forged strong bonds which had been put to the ultimate test during the Soviet attack on Finland last year. During the year the various Football matches of the Nordic Championship had been transmitted in Television which had been an even greater success than the Gustavus funeral service and which had actually boosted the sales of Television sets. It was widely rumoured that besides a Car a Television set was the most wanted consumers item of Nordic families. Because of this popularity and the sales of Television sets the upcoming World Cup of 1952 was much awaited by Nordic Football fans and it was much discussed that the 1950 World Cup in Brazil had been an opportunity missed for the national networks. In Germany sports had early on been a popular part of Television transmissions as the country was lacking a Royal house and the diversity of the large country was enough to make for several Channel Networks to appear early on. Also the traditional German addiction to health and physical fitness – which of course wasn't universal as many Beerhall addicts would point to – made for Sport to be deemed an area fit for increasing national wiever rates and politically want of unity. Its a long way from Konigsberg in East Prussia to Berlin – Hamburg – the Ruhr District and Munich no less the differences in religion and regional history all serving as something to unite the nation even more to be opted in on by politicians. There the transmission of the 1950 World Cup had made for many a Nordic travelling family get stranded for weeks during the Summer Holidays because of the men and sons had wanted to watch the matches as reported later in many Female and Family Weeklies readers columns to having disrupted the family Summer Vacation. The Funeral Service transmission of King Carl of Finland had shown live images of Helsinki where the Service were held but also some TV-crews had visited the battlefields of 1945 to be able to get even more interesting footage to show - and a rise in numbers of wievers.
Small quibble here. Do you mean 1954 or is there a 2 year gap between tournaments. Plus with a PoD in 1905 its very uncertain where any such tournament would be in 1950 if one was held that year.
|
|
575
Captain
There is no Purgatory for warcriminals - they go directly to Hell!
Posts: 2,732
Likes: 4,108
|
Post by 575 on Dec 23, 2022 12:22:06 GMT
Television II 1951 The Funeral Service of King Gustavus 5. had been the first major direct transmission in Nordic Television and had attracted a lot of viewers and also been an occasion to remind the audiences of the history of the Nordics the development since 1905 and the since Great War forged strong bonds which had been put to the ultimate test during the Soviet attack on Finland last year. During the year the various Football matches of the Nordic Championship had been transmitted in Television which had been an even greater success than the Gustavus funeral service and which had actually boosted the sales of Television sets. It was widely rumoured that besides a Car a Television set was the most wanted consumers item of Nordic families. Because of this popularity and the sales of Television sets the upcoming World Cup of 1952 was much awaited by Nordic Football fans and it was much discussed that the 1950 World Cup in Brazil had been an opportunity missed for the national networks. In Germany sports had early on been a popular part of Television transmissions as the country was lacking a Royal house and the diversity of the large country was enough to make for several Channel Networks to appear early on. Also the traditional German addiction to health and physical fitness – which of course wasn't universal as many Beerhall addicts would point to – made for Sport to be deemed an area fit for increasing national wiever rates and politically want of unity. Its a long way from Konigsberg in East Prussia to Berlin – Hamburg – the Ruhr District and Munich no less the differences in religion and regional history all serving as something to unite the nation even more to be opted in on by politicians. There the transmission of the 1950 World Cup had made for many a Nordic travelling family get stranded for weeks during the Summer Holidays because of the men and sons had wanted to watch the matches as reported later in many Female and Family Weeklies readers columns to having disrupted the family Summer Vacation. The Funeral Service transmission of King Carl of Finland had shown live images of Helsinki where the Service were held but also some TV-crews had visited the battlefields of 1945 to be able to get even more interesting footage to show - and a rise in numbers of wievers.
Small quibble here. Do you mean 1954 or is there a 2 year gap between tournaments. Plus with a PoD in 1905 its very uncertain where any such tournament would be in 1950 if one was held that year.
Still 4 year interval. Well if we go by OTL South America then twice Europe then South America twice Europe we end up somewhere in Europe. Looking up the Wiki page it says Germany wanted the 1942 Cup and Brazil 1946 so its anybody's guess where the 1950 Cup would play out even more so 1954 so I'll leave it unnamed. Guess we'd end up in a fight otherwise.  |
|
stevep
Fleet admiral
Posts: 24,834
Likes: 13,224
|
Post by stevep on Dec 23, 2022 15:55:51 GMT
I may have a pause in updates - read a few post's in an ISOT TL on ze other zite which prompted the usual view of the coherence of the British Empire which would have quite some influenze on ITTL world wide. Here #753 onwards if you are a member. Any input would be much appreciated.
Damn you! I had things to do today before I clicked on that link.  Very interesting although I think the author is too optimistic about a number of things. With the comments your referring to again I suspect that guy is also being too optimistic but IF the down timers were willing to make real changes starting - preferably before or not long after WWI, too late by the time we're at in your TL - you could get a grouping of powers centred around the old empire which could have considerable political and economic influence in the world.
Mind you of course it needs decent management of the UK economic so its a lot broader and strong than the basket case it is OTL. Which is probably the most difficult problem of all.  |
|
575
Captain
There is no Purgatory for warcriminals - they go directly to Hell!
Posts: 2,732
Likes: 4,108
|
Post by 575 on Dec 23, 2022 16:35:41 GMT
I may have a pause in updates - read a few post's in an ISOT TL on ze other zite which prompted the usual view of the coherence of the British Empire which would have quite some influenze on ITTL world wide. Here #753 onwards if you are a member. Any input would be much appreciated.
Damn you! I had things to do today before I clicked on that link. Very interesting although I think the author is too optimistic about a number of things. With the comments your referring to again I suspect that guy is also being too optimistic but IF the down timers were willing to make real changes starting - preferably before or not long after WWI, too late by the time we're at in your TL - you could get a grouping of powers centred around the old empire which could have considerable political and economic influence in the world.
Mind you of course it needs decent management of the UK economic so its a lot broader and strong than the basket case it is OTL. Which is probably the most difficult problem of all. He - he; well there is a time for everything.. Yes found it interesting too and quite optimistic contrary to much i've read but without WWII things would be much different. TL wise I didn't really see the Old Empire reforming post WWI so Britain may go into a kind of decline when the Empire is gone. Haven't been to Canada or South Africa but seen Oz and New Zealand; I'd guess the three - not South Africa - would still be aligned to Britain for quite some time though I'm uncertain SA would go Apartheid ITTL though having looked at the destribution of arable land its a probable at least because the Boers want it for themselves. Without WWII SA outlook to Britain may be somewhat more positive if only because they didn't have to fight Germans. With this it might remain segregated but less legally so; though this time in OTL is when things changed.
|
|
stevep
Fleet admiral
Posts: 24,834
Likes: 13,224
|
Post by stevep on Dec 24, 2022 12:21:46 GMT
Damn you! I had things to do today before I clicked on that link. Very interesting although I think the author is too optimistic about a number of things. With the comments your referring to again I suspect that guy is also being too optimistic but IF the down timers were willing to make real changes starting - preferably before or not long after WWI, too late by the time we're at in your TL - you could get a grouping of powers centred around the old empire which could have considerable political and economic influence in the world.
Mind you of course it needs decent management of the UK economic so its a lot broader and strong than the basket case it is OTL. Which is probably the most difficult problem of all. He - he; well there is a time for everything.. Yes found it interesting too and quite optimistic contrary to much i've read but without WWII things would be much different. TL wise I didn't really see the Old Empire reforming post WWI so Britain may go into a kind of decline when the Empire is gone. Haven't been to Canada or South Africa but seen Oz and New Zealand; I'd guess the three - not South Africa - would still be aligned to Britain for quite some time though I'm uncertain SA would go Apartheid ITTL though having looked at the destribution of arable land its a probable at least because the Boers want it for themselves. Without WWII SA outlook to Britain may be somewhat more positive if only because they didn't have to fight Germans. With this it might remain segregated but less legally so; though this time in OTL is when things changed.
Well Britain is in a stronger economic position - although they may miss out on the reforms that occurred post 45 OTL. Relations with Australia and New Zealand are very likely to be better without their forces being drawn west to the Med in 1940/41 then Britain being unable to defend the Malaya-DEI barrier and they were forced to rely on the US for protection. Plus without WWII and then the Soviet threat forcing new ideas for continental unity its unlikely that Britain will be lured into a EEC type organisation and deserting its traditional trading partners in the process. The fact that IIRC Britain still goes protectionist - albeit lightly so - in TTL means that there is a good basis for a free trade/low tariff British/Imperial/Dominion area with probably some other regions such as Denmark, Ireland etc which had strong trading relations with Britain which would give an economy of scale for trade and other activity.
The empire will go as an empire because it required both a desire among the British to pay the costs of ruling it and among the subjects to stay subject and I can't see either staying the case by the 2nd half of the century. Although without WWII, both as a crippling burden and also a war to protect democracy its likely to occur somewhat latter. Whether the OTL failures of the massed violence in the Indian partition and the decline of many former colonies into dictatorship, widespread corruption and brutal violence can be avoided and to what a degree would be the primary issues for possible difference. Its a problem in S Africa and also the other colonies in Africa with small but politically and economically dominant white settler communities that will want to retain their power.
|
|
575
Captain
There is no Purgatory for warcriminals - they go directly to Hell!
Posts: 2,732
Likes: 4,108
|
Post by 575 on Dec 26, 2022 11:07:12 GMT
He - he; well there is a time for everything.. Yes found it interesting too and quite optimistic contrary to much i've read but without WWII things would be much different. TL wise I didn't really see the Old Empire reforming post WWI so Britain may go into a kind of decline when the Empire is gone. Haven't been to Canada or South Africa but seen Oz and New Zealand; I'd guess the three - not South Africa - would still be aligned to Britain for quite some time though I'm uncertain SA would go Apartheid ITTL though having looked at the destribution of arable land its a probable at least because the Boers want it for themselves. Without WWII SA outlook to Britain may be somewhat more positive if only because they didn't have to fight Germans. With this it might remain segregated but less legally so; though this time in OTL is when things changed.
Well Britain is in a stronger economic position - although they may miss out on the reforms that occurred post 45 OTL. Relations with Australia and New Zealand are very likely to be better without their forces being drawn west to the Med in 1940/41 then Britain being unable to defend the Malaya-DEI barrier and they were forced to rely on the US for protection. Plus without WWII and then the Soviet threat forcing new ideas for continental unity its unlikely that Britain will be lured into a EEC type organisation and deserting its traditional trading partners in the process. The fact that IIRC Britain still goes protectionist - albeit lightly so - in TTL means that there is a good basis for a free trade/low tariff British/Imperial/Dominion area with probably some other regions such as Denmark, Ireland etc which had strong trading relations with Britain which would give an economy of scale for trade and other activity.
The empire will go as an empire because it required both a desire among the British to pay the costs of ruling it and among the subjects to stay subject and I can't see either staying the case by the 2nd half of the century. Although without WWII, both as a crippling burden and also a war to protect democracy its likely to occur somewhat latter. Whether the OTL failures of the massed violence in the Indian partition and the decline of many former colonies into dictatorship, widespread corruption and brutal violence can be avoided and to what a degree would be the primary issues for possible difference. Its a problem in S Africa and also the other colonies in Africa with small but politically and economically dominant white settler communities that will want to retain their power.
Thanks for Your feedback - much appreciated 
I've already let India go and still partition because of violence but as OTL they may remain with the Commonwealth. Do see Australia and New Zealand keeping up as Britain have decided to protect them up front with the joint RN-RAN-RNZ Navy Squadron both to defend against a possible Japanese adventure and to guard the Straits against NEI rebels. Don't see an EEC organization and Denmark will want supplying bacon and butter to the British. Without a WWII and with a stronger Italy and democratic Germany there's no need - at least not for now (1951) - though things may change in Europe but that remains to be seen (not intending such TL wise but then You never know).
Even with the rumblings in Colonies as already occured the process will more drawn out at least to the British though the French have really made a mess of themselves and is reaping as sowed. Yes the main British problem is the white settlers and in SA the Boers as they seem to sit on the arable 4% lands.. am still pondering that one.
The US haven't s experience WWII or the Korean War so still a segregated society for quite some time as the Armed Forces haven't been tested to absolve. And Isolationist. Though wants to keep Central and South America under its umbrella! Which may hold some potential for US - European tension (Colonial Powers Britain, France, Netherlands, Denmark - and Germany) on who's ruling the Western Hemisphere.
Welfare states? - Nordics but a more conservative bunch than OTL, Netherlands though retaining DEI and to some extend Germany. Though also a Germany where the Armed Forces have seen politicians negotiate out of Versailles bonds which will be important ITTL.
|
|
stevep
Fleet admiral
Posts: 24,834
Likes: 13,224
|
Post by stevep on Dec 26, 2022 13:13:01 GMT
Small quibble here. Do you mean 1954 or is there a 2 year gap between tournaments. Plus with a PoD in 1905 its very uncertain where any such tournament would be in 1950 if one was held that year.
Still 4 year interval. Well if we go by OTL South America then twice Europe then South America twice Europe we end up somewhere in Europe. Looking up the Wiki page it says Germany wanted the 1942 Cup and Brazil 1946 so its anybody's guess where the 1950 Cup would play out even more so 1954 so I'll leave it unnamed. Guess we'd end up in a fight otherwise.
Sorry seem to have missed this, although I managed to tick I liked it?? Good point as without WWII there are presumably events in 42, 46 & 50 but that would still mean the next one was 54 rather than 52.
|
|
Very interesting although I think the author is too optimistic about a number of things. With the comments your referring to again I suspect that guy is also being too optimistic but IF the down timers were willing to make real changes starting - preferably before or not long after WWI, too late by the time we're at in your TL - you could get a grouping of powers centred around the old empire which could have considerable political and economic influence in the world.
