lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Dec 21, 2020 16:10:28 GMT
personal RAF Hawker-Siddeley Concord supersonic jet. Now that is one plane that can beat Air Force One.
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Post by simon darkshade on Dec 21, 2020 16:33:52 GMT
At this stage, Air Force One is a modified Boeing 717 with a top speed of Mach 1.3, so it can do so comfortably. However, the US plane has a host of different capabilities that will be carried over into the new version using the Boeing 2707z
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Post by simon darkshade on Dec 24, 2020 11:37:53 GMT
A New Jerusalem Part 8
November 15th 1964 Remarks by Prime Minister Stanley Barton at the School of Oriental Studies
"It is not for nothing that we call the lands of the Near East, the most ancient in the story of man. These are the lands that have seen countless strife, the rise and fall of empires unnumbered and the greatest events of history. This is the site of the Garden of Eden, of the Great Flood, of the kingdom of Solomon and the birthplaces of Abraham and Mahomet. Here is the ground that Christ walked upon. The lands have been holy, but the wars that have wracked them have not been. For too long, this most ancient land of peace has been reduced to a waste by the callow designs of kings and emperors lost to time just as mighty Ozymandias is but a memory of a memory.
Yet now, in these last two decades, we have seen somethings new. Prosperity. The opportunity for the advancement of mankind. The desert blooming. Peace. These are gains that we should not and will not idly put aside. Here, in this part of God's Earth where three great faiths have collided and wrought centuries of blood, they coexist. This is something we should not and will not idly put aside.
We have seen the noble Arab peoples, so long held under the boots and sandles of conquering rulers from elsewhere, find their own destiny, rule their own sovereign great nations and unite in a union of peace and glory. In the ancient land between the two rivers, the fields grow where they have been desolate and fallow for millenia. The sons of the desert can now enjoy both the fruits of security and the wealth of their lands fairly and justly.
We have seen the Jewish people return to their ancient homeland and rebuild their own home for the first time in almost twenty centuries. In but a short time, a great nation has emerged, proud and free, standing alongside the cause of liberty in our troubled world. There has been peace and understanding where some would have sought war and because of that, the words written in the Book have come to pass and the deserts have bloomed. It has been shown that men can live together.
All this has come to pass not through the harsh and iron fist of domination, but through the protection of the British Empire. We have been a fair arbiter and judge and protector of the realms of the Levant, whatever their race, whatever their faith. When external powers and threats, such as the evil spectre of Communism that now menaces the whole world or the vileness of Nazism that has rightly been blasted into the ash heap of history, have tried to cast their loathsome shadow over these holy lands, our Empire has stood against them. We fought them and beat them then and we will do so again should ever they return.
The world is changing and our role is changing. Britain welcomes the new states of the Middle East to the ranks of the free as they grow now to their strength and maturity. Where once we lead and guided, we now walk together as equals and as allies. Yet this has been won with much pain, much treasure and much blood. We will continue to offer our hand in friendship and in protection.
We have peace in these lands. This is something we should not and will not idly put aside."
November 19th 1964 Universal Newsreel
"Once again, the spotlight of the world swings to Washington D.C. with the arrival of Britain's new Prime Minister, Stanley Barton, at Washington National Airport. The new PM has already been making a stir at home and this continued when he arrived in this country, flying into the capital on board his personal RAF Hawker-Siddeley Concord supersonic jet. There he is, accompanied by Mrs. Barton, Foreign Secretary Anthony Crosland and other key officials, coming down the red carpet to be met by Secretary of State Finch. The Prime Minister is also accompanied by the members of the Imperial Chiefs of Staff Committee who are scheduled to meet with their United States counterparts tomorrow.
(Instrumental interlude of God Save the Queen and The Star Spangled Banner)
After the anthems and review of the Presidential Guard, resplendent in their ceremonial uniforms, Mr. Barton spoke
"I thank you very much for your welcome. I look forward to the opportunity to further our mutual efforts for peace and security in the world today for all of our tomorrows. The bond of friendship between Britain and the United States is so strong that it may prove to be the foundation of that peace and that hope. Through understanding our common ties and our many differences, we shall all strive for the betterment of all mankind. There are no limits to our new horizons when we work together."
And now we see him being whisked away in his Rolls-Royce, accompanied by a grand motorcade of Scotland Yard and the Secret Service. All of us wish Mr. Barton well with his visit."
November 19th 1964 White House
Stanley Barton walked through the doors of the Oval Office after his host, the formal welcoming ceremony on the South Lawn now done. Protocol was protocol, however much he occasionally became impatient with it. Finally, they were seated and the business could begin.
“Prime Minister Barton, I’m very glad we could make time for this before the more public talks.”
“Of course, Mr. President. It is always good to address matters candidly.”
Kennedy smiled slightly internally. The briefing notes were not wrong on Barton’s ‘economy’.
“I was very pleased to receive news of your agreement with the previous proposals for strategic cooperation and your resolution to stand for freedom in South Vietnam. It shows that the United States has no truer friend than Great Britain.”
“Mr. President, it was quite simple and came down to two matters - national honour and national interest. You’ve stood by us when we needed you and we simply cannot allow the Far East to fall to communism. The red tide needs to be stopped and stopped dead.”
“Precisely, Mr. Barton. We’re going to need a lot more cooperation and leadership to get Europe in the best shape and position to present a united front against the Soviets.”
“I will of course provide whatever influence we can exert over France and Germany to that end. We have a great interest in maintaining a strong, stable and friendly Continent, after all.”
Not quite the response we were looking for, but I think he knows that...
“Have you had an opportunity to consider the proposal that Ambassador Acheson delivered last week?”
“Yes. Our position is broadly similar to the preceding government, with a couple of minor differences. Firstly, we will take part in an equal regional security pact, but will retain additional capabilities and forces beyond that; and secondly, any such agreement would not supersede our current commitments and undertakings towards various Middle Eastern states."
"That seems to be a bit more than a minor difference of opinion, Prime Minister."
"It is, Mr. President. We are willing to play along and even let others set the rules, but this isn't a game for us. I cannot forsee the circumstances whereby Britain would undergo quite such a radical change in our regional commitments and interests at this time. As I said to Mr. Acheson in our first meeting, I'm sure that, with mutual commitment, we can reach a just agreement for all parties."
"I see. We're going to have to work on it. You've been quite plain on where you stand and we also have our position which we have put plainly. I'm certain that we can come to a working arrangement, like in Africa."
"Nothing would please me more, Mr. President. We have so much that unites us, so that these little things, be they the Levant or some matters of trade protection, to pick out an example, should not hold us apart."
"Let's hope so, Prime Minister. Now, I do have something new to broach with you that we definitely won't be discussing at the Combined Chiefs later on. Moscow has reached out to us, through back channels as ever, in response to inquiries as to whether they would be willing to begins discussions on strategic nuclear arms control."
"That is most interesting news."
"There is an indication that they might be interested in the matter, but it came along with a few beginning caveats; the most relevant of those is that they would see such talks occurring on a bilateral basis."
"I'm sure you know that we couldn't go along with that, Mr. President."
"Naturally, naturally. It was just an opening gambit by them, and a transparent one at that."
"Quite transparent indeed. It is really quite a coincidence - I was just discussing the matter with Premier de Gaulle three days ago over the telephone. We both quite agreed that the Soviets would try and exert pressure using the British and French strategic arsenals as bargaining chips and that it was quite unworkable to do so, given our size, role and independence."
"Now that is most interesting news, Mr. Prime Minister."
"Not quite preternaturally prescient or anything like that; one of the Deuxième Bureau's chaps in Moscow got wind of some chatter and followed it up. Fascinating what comes out sometimes."
"Yes, well, suffice it to say, we won't be letting them go down that path. If they want negotiation, we'll do it from strength and without selling any of our friends up the river."
"Mr. President, I'd expect no less from yourself or your great nation, just as I fully expect you to beat the Russians out to Jupiter."
"Thank you. I'm hoping that when we do, we don't find a Union Jack there already!"
"I don't think that's particularly likely."
"A joke, Mr. Barton, a joke. Now, if you'll forgive me, we've got to wrap things up here, have some pictures taken and then break for some lunch."
"Oh dear, that is a worry."
"What do you mean?"
"I'd never heard you still had a problem with having pictures taken from the White House. I thought we were the last ones to give you trouble with that."
"Ah."
"A joke, Mr. President, a joke."
Would wonders never cease? thought President Kennedy.
………………… “All up, it was fairly much as expected, Prime Minister.”
“Yes, I quite agree, Admiral. Try to impress the new chum with their bells and whistles and sheer darn scale, then go for the selling pitch. They tried the usual with you and our delegation?”
“A guided tour of the Deep Command Center. Three miles down and it still is more lavish than anything we can offer, what with full television links to Saigon, Paris and Hawaii.”
“Count yourself lucky, I only got to see the Big Board and tea in the Tank; I’m just the politician, after all. Secretary Savage was a most kind host, though.”
“Yes, Prime Minister. General Taylor was the nice guy, talking about the benefits to joint operations of equipment integration, whilst Admiral Anderson did make the moves we predicted regarding the Med, but his heart really didn’t seem in it.”
“I liked General LeMay. He was all business and very serious, as a man in his position should be.”
“He does have that effect, sir, although I think they were hoping you’d be a bit more disconcerted.”
“He doesn’t suffer fools, doesn’t feel it necessary to be loved and knows war from the sharp end. I can certainly relate to that. No nonsense and getting the dashed job done. They did their prep, I’ll grant you that.”
Mountbatten nodded thoughtfully. Whilst the last three Prime Ministers had seen active service in the Great War and Churchill had risen high in the Territorials beforehand, Barton was the first PM to have been a general in over a century
“In any event, they were pleased that we agreed to confirm the Phantom deal. Between us and the Canadians, that will be their biggest aircraft deal since the war. Any bite on the Excaliburs?”
“Not officially, but my offer to have a squadron come over for next year’s fleet exercise got the level of interest we thought. They are fairly much wed to the Vigilante and the F-111 for their naval strike role, though.”
“Our refusal to bite on the F-111 for the RAF isn’t popular, but it simply doesn’t fill a role for us. I know it is intentional, you needn’t belabour that point, but they must see that we can’t abandon the Thunderbolt, anymore than we can drop our future planes for their Five Xs.”
“Apart from the CXX, of course.”
“Yes, naturally, Admiral. You sold me on it quite well before the election. I still want us to keep the channels open and exchange what is appropriate on the fighter projects, but the Lion serves our purposes much better than their A-X. Do we know any details about it?”
“There’s not too much to know at this point, sir, beyond the basic parameters - twin engines, large payload, armour and a 40mm Gatling.”
“The cousins do have a taste for excess, don’t they? They have been quite clear on their quid pro quos - Phantom for Harrier seems a done deal, but F-111 for TSR-2, on the other hand, does not.”
“Quite the quandary, Prime Minister. There is of course the other option - the Navy.”
“Perhaps.” Acquiring the F-111 for the RNAS would be a powerful augmentation to the Buccaneer fleet, albeit at a cost to potential procurement of the Supermarine Excalibur in the heavy strike role. The British plane had better performance, but the F-111 had a slightly better range to offset it. It would solve part of their maritime strike issue, but at a deleterious cost to British producers.
“In any case, try and hammer it out at the Combined Chiefs of Staff meeting tomorrow. I’ll have another talk with President Kennedy to see what they say to an expansion of our Phantom purchase through an order from the Argentines; that might sway them.”
“Will Buenos Aires come to the game, Prime Minister?”
“I think they will. We can sweeten matters for them with some of our surplus light cruisers. Even if they prove reticent, we have the other avenue of the Free Poles.”
“With all due respect to our Polish allies, they really aren’t in a position where they can really sustain any force level much longer.”
“You’re right, but it would be impolitic to tell them such. As matters stand, we can continue our aid to the Polish Government in Exile ad infinitum; five fighter squadrons and their nominal field force can be sustained for a few more years?”
“Only really with difficulty, Prime Minister. Sustaining them through their diaspora and a tiny colony that is their in name only was a problem in ‘55, let alone ‘65.”
“You make a good point. I think that some hard decisions are coming, for us and the Poles alike.”
It was all a matter of priorities, Barton reflected. Those of the United States and the British Empire rarely aligned; indeed, it had been a long time goal of the former to see the latter disestablished and broken up for long periods of the near two centuries of America’s existence as an independent state. As much as they were tied together by bonds of shared heritage, history and common foes - and blood was thicker than water - their interests were distinct to the point of being parallel. It was his task, as it had been every Prime Minister since Joseph Chamberlain, to achieve the geometrically difficult task of drawing the parallel closer together without setting them on a course for collision and subsumption into a single line drawn by Washington.
There were important differences of strategy, with the USA being just as much a Pacific power as it was an Atlantic one and viewing the situation of Europe through the prism of their Western hemisphere detachment. Even their production focus was different, not least of which due to the sheer scale and power of their industry; at merely a little above peacetime rate, they turned out almost triple the number of tanks, planes and guns as Britain alone. This, in concert with their superb financial resources, made for an at times incomprehensible approach to some of the other European allies. Whatever their differences, though, there were key factors that kept America and Britain together and Barton aimed to work these as best as possible in his twin aims - to be indispensable and, as much as was possible, to be a respected equal.
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stevep
Fleet admiral
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Post by stevep on Dec 24, 2020 12:49:42 GMT
simon darkshade , Very good. A firm line that we're willing to be allies but not satellites.It was a position that OTL Britain never had the power to hold after 1940. Hopefully there is a gradual weaning of the US off the idea of American exceptionalism that often blighted their diplomacy as their leaders accept that other people matter. The last line was probably a bit counter-productive as having made clear Britain won't be a walk over it might be seen as too much of a jab at the US but a good exchange of views.
Going to be interesting, with the larger British and French deterrent, if Moscow has to accept multinational discussions on nuclear controls. Which of course would relate to China as well although its nuclear forces are probably still fairly small and probably some of the other nuclear powers in the DEU. [Dark Earth Universe].
Steve
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Post by simon darkshade on Dec 24, 2020 13:40:48 GMT
Steve,
That was very much the sense in which the conversation was meant.
The first attempted American nudge was towards a more multilateral arrangement for Middle Eastern security, which would eventually and completely naturally turn into a CENTO type arrangement dominated by the US, progressively moving the British off centre stage. Whilst Eden and the Conservatives were just as adamantly against such a step (having gone to war in 1956 and used tactical nuclear weapons in that conflict to boot), they were more open to trying to influence the US by working along with them; the crude aphorism about being inside or outside the tent comes to mind. Barton doesn't have time for that approach, nor is it his style.
The second was the dangling of the idea of Britain getting involved with and leading Europe, which again would have a number of side effects. This is something that hasn't had a bit from either side of British politics and the only 'pro-European' party from our Earthly perspective would be the Liberals - even then, their approach would be extremely different for us. There is plenty to be gained from engagement with Europe, but as long as France and Germany remain at an impasse, there isn't going to be any sort of supranationalist arrangement; rather, any steps forward would be more along the lines of the 'Europe of nations' that the French pushed under de Gaulle in the early 1960s.
The issue of American exceptionalism is there to stay and is more pronounced when new administrations come in, particularly when there is a change of party. The big area of difference is that the US doesn't quite outbalance the other Western powers in quite the same fashion - they are the 450-500lb gorilla in the room rather than the 800lb beast.
I'm very glad that the last line was picked up on. Stanley Barton is not a man given to jokes or humour and doesn't really know when to use them. This was a case where letting the last word go to the other fellow would have been a good idea.
The idea of force limitations and controls is a long, long way off. The issue of China, particularly with it being more profoundly separate from the Soviet bloc, is but one factor at play.
Simon
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Post by simon darkshade on Jan 3, 2021 10:29:13 GMT
A little preview of the next part:
A New Jerusalem Part 9
Amesbury November 29th 1964
It had been a busy few days for Stanley Barton since his return from his first Prime Ministerial overseas trip to North America. In addition to the conference, state dinner and meeting with President Kennedy in Washington, he had made a flying visit to Halifax to meet with Prime Ministers Sir William Richardson of Canada, Jack Steel of New Avalon, Edmund McDonald of the West Indies and Sir Nathaniel Hudson of Newfoundland. Steel had been his mercurial self, befitting his repute as the Empire’s most individual premier, whilst Hudson and McDonald were extremely keen on expanded military cooperation and Richardson quietly dominated affairs as was his usual want. The old term of British North America had mostly been confined to the history books when he was but a boy back before the war, but it certainly felt like it was alive and well as a power bloc within the Empire. With them inside for his defence plans, persuading the other Dominion leaders would be that much easier.
He’d thought that there would be something of a brief respite after the trip, but that had been put paid by a kerfuffle with the French over tariffs and a near miss on a strike by the London dockworkers; he had called up the union leadership and made sure they knew which side their bread was buttered. If the Port of London was to maintain its position as the world's greatest port with some 124 million tons of cargo, then it would require wage restraint and improved productivity whilst the dredging and modernisation projects made margins tight; the Board of Trade's Industrial Development Subcommittee had forecast some dire portents as the coastal coal trade started to decline, but adapting the docks to the new 'Londonsize' shipping containers could hopefully provide some degree of amelioration. In the long term, as ships became larger, it was inevitable that a certain volume of trade would head out to the deepwater ports on the Channel and North Sea, but the political importance of the dockland trade and workers (and their associated powerful unions and solidly Labour constituencies) made doing something about the issue an important factor for Barton to take into account.
As if that hadn't been enough fuss, then there had been a minor diplomatic incident with the dashed Spanish. A somewhat shady wizard residing in Salamanca had got into a spot of bother over ‘borrowing’ a grimoire from the restricted section of the University library, resulting in his apartment being raided by the Spanish Inquisition; he hadn’t expected them, apparently. They attempted to take the fellow into custody for their non-too delicate interrogation, a step which he disputed, leading to a confused pursuit through the nighttime skies to Gibraltar. Upon his arrival, he claimed protection as a British subject, even as the Spanish were demanding his extradition for trial and execution. It had taken almost an entire day of high level negotiations to stand the Spaniards down, which took an agreement on arms and military fuel exports and the news that the wizard in question had suddenly discovered a long hidden desire to study penguins in Antarctica for the next decade. Madrid had tried to tie in their long-running complaints about Gibraltar to the whole business, as ever, but they had got short shrift on the issue and had settled down once Hood had made a quick dash from Agadir.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jan 3, 2021 12:05:05 GMT
A little preview of the next part: A New Jerusalem Part 9Amesbury November 29th 1964It had been a busy few days for Stanley Barton since his return from his first Prime Ministerial overseas trip to North America. In addition to the conference, state dinner and meeting with President Kennedy in Washington, he had made a flying visit to Halifax to meet with Prime Ministers Sir William Richardson of Canada, Jack Steel of New Avalon, Edmund McDonald of the West Indies and Sir Nathaniel Hudson of Newfoundland. Steel had been his mercurial self, befitting his repute as the Empire’s most individual premier, whilst Hudson and McDonald were extremely keen on expanded military cooperation and Richardson quietly dominated affairs as was his usual want. The old term of British North America had mostly been confined to the history books when he was but a boy back before the war, but it certainly felt like it was alive and well as a power bloc within the Empire. With them inside for his defence plans, persuading the other Dominion leaders would be that much easier. He’d thought that there would be something of a brief respite after the trip, but that had been put paid by a kerfuffle with the French over tariffs and a near miss on a strike by the London dockworkers; he had called up the union leadership and made sure they knew which side their bread was buttered. If the Port of London was to maintain its position as the world's greatest port with some 124 million tons of cargo, then it would require wage restraint and improved productivity whilst the dredging and modernisation projects made margins tight; the Board of Trade's Industrial Development Subcommittee had forecast some dire portents as the coastal coal trade started to decline, but adapting the docks to the new 'Londonsize' shipping containers could hopefully provide some degree of amelioration. In the long term, as ships became larger, it was inevitable that a certain volume of trade would head out to the deepwater ports on the Channel and North Sea, but the political importance of the dockland trade and workers (and their associated powerful unions and solidly Labour constituencies) made doing something about the issue an important factor for Barton to take into account. As if that hadn't been enough fuss, then there had been a minor diplomatic incident with the dashed Spanish. A somewhat shady wizard residing in Salamanca had got into a spot of bother over ‘borrowing’ a grimoire from the restricted section of the University library, resulting in his apartment being raided by the Spanish Inquisition; he hadn’t expected them, apparently. They attempted to take the fellow into custody for their non-too delicate interrogation, a step which he disputed, leading to a confused pursuit through the nighttime skies to Gibraltar. Upon his arrival, he claimed protection as a British subject, even as the Spanish were demanding his extradition for trial and execution. It had taken almost an entire day of high level negotiations to stand the Spaniards down, which took an agreement on arms and military fuel exports and the news that the wizard in question had suddenly discovered a long hidden desire to study penguins in Antarctica for the next decade. Madrid had tried to tie in their long-running complaints about Gibraltar to the whole business, as ever, but they had got short shrift on the issue and had settled down once Hood had made a quick dash from Agadir.
So MP does live, even in the DEU. Thanks for that. Also that you realise the important of detailed studies of our Antarctic citizens. Keeping a full census of their numbers and status is vital. I assume that he will be under some sort of gueas [sp?] to stop him wondering and getting into more trouble. A bit surprised that Barton wasn't willing to hand him over since it sounds like he was definitely guilty. Unless their unwilling to let any British citizen be held to foreign law or possibly he was working under orders for the HMG?
Ultimately I would expect London to lose the title of the world's busiest port. Britain simply doesn't have the home market to match places like the US or even Europe, for all its current divisions. The potential market for a port in the Rhine would be markedly higher that for Britain.
Hope you had a good holiday and things will be better next this year. [Still getting used to the fact we're now in 2021.
Steve
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Post by simon darkshade on Jan 3, 2021 14:31:56 GMT
Steve, It is compulsory to make that reference when talking about the Spanish Inquisition. Antarctic affairs are important, as well as being a useful place to put someone on ice. The wizard in question will be quite carefully looked after, although he was only guilty of trying to access a restricted book, rather than anything truly malign. The Inquisition are exceptionally zealous in their job. In addition, there is a general dislike of letting British subjects be subject to the more extreme extents of foreign laws and practices. London's eclipse is inevitable, given the particular advantages of Antwerp, Hamburg and Rotterdam. There will be heavy development of Tilbury and the Isle of Grain will take on the role filled by Felixstowe in @, given London's sheer sprawl. However, the historic Docks won't quite go down the same direction as @. I hope it will be a better year; I've no taste for holiday and would prefer to get work, both before university and during it. Simon
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Post by simon darkshade on Jan 3, 2021 17:18:35 GMT
Another little tidbit I dashed off when hit by some inspiration:
“After all that, it was somewhat pleasant to get out of London into the countryside and it had been a nice little flight out to RAF Boscombe Down. However, it was only somewhat pleasant, as his visit here was to attend a meeting of what was rather banally termed the Joint Supervisory Coordination and Cooperation Group, a term that was eschewed by most of those in the loop - they preferred to simply call it the Special Committee. It gathered together key representatives all of the disparate quasi-independent ‘specially-powered’ groups of the realm, as Sir Obo had put it. Having a combined body allowed the Government to coordinate actions and policies and essentially to ensure that everyone played along nicely on the same side. In addition to representatives from departments of the Crown such as the Ministry of Magic, the Royal Legion of Frontiersmen, the Rangers of the various kingdoms and the Office of the Witchfinder General, there was the Independent Wizardly Society, the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, the Ancient Order of Druids, the Templars, the Grand College of Bards, the Royal Guild of Alchemists, the Super League of Great Britain and a dozen other more obscure and obscurantist groups who drew lots to get a yearly seat. To be quite honest, Barton thought of the arrangement as rather a dog’s breakfast, although that had the quite admirable features of being healthful, appreciated by the dog and over much more bally quickly than this would be.
Oh, and they had to hold the blasted meetings at Stonehenge.
Naturally.“
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jan 8, 2021 11:26:03 GMT
A little preview of the next part: West Indies Does this mean all British possessions in the Caribbean are under one flag.
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Post by simon darkshade on Jan 8, 2021 19:35:58 GMT
Yes, the West Indies Federation does consist of Cuba, Jamaica, Trinidad, the Bahamas, Tobago, Barbados, Antigua, Grenada, Dominica, Grenada, Grand Dracaria, the Virgin Islands, Montserrat, St Vincent and the Grenadines, Saint Lucia, the Turks and Caicos, St Kitts and Nevis, Anguilla, British Honduras and British Guiana.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jan 8, 2021 19:46:04 GMT
Yes, the West Indies Federation does consist of Cuba, Jamaica, Trinidad, the Bahamas, Tobago, Barbados, Antigua, Grenada, Dominica, Grenada, Grand Dracaria, the Virgin Islands, Montserrat, St Vincent and the Grenadines, Saint Lucia, the Turks and Caicos, St Kitts and Nevis, Anguilla, British Honduras and British Guiana. And the capitol would be.
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Post by simon darkshade on Jan 8, 2021 20:11:34 GMT
As of 1964, Kingston.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jan 9, 2021 11:33:15 GMT
Yes, the West Indies Federation does consist of Cuba, Jamaica, Trinidad, the Bahamas, Tobago, Barbados, Antigua, Grenada, Dominica, Grenada, Grand Dracaria, the Virgin Islands, Montserrat, St Vincent and the Grenadines, Saint Lucia, the Turks and Caicos, St Kitts and Nevis, Anguilla, British Honduras and British Guiana.
That one I don't recognise. Is it something that doesn't exist here or a different name? Notice there no Miskito Kingdom here so we didn't have more success in keeping that?
Steve
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Post by simon darkshade on Jan 9, 2021 15:20:42 GMT
It is a new island not present in @, mentioned in the notes to Never Had it So Good Part 15:
"Grand Dracaria is an island between Porto Rico and Hispaniola around the size of the former"
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