ssgtc
Sub-lieutenant
Posts: 496
Likes: 740
|
Post by ssgtc on Mar 29, 2021 21:17:06 GMT
Following with interest though I have little if any to add. Be interesting what the Dutch will commit of boots on the ground though the timetable of such will be long if not lifted by the USAF/MATS. It's not just manpower, it's equipment. Unless it's pure light infantry, it will take lots and lots of sealift to move the artillery, the AAA, the light armored vehicles, the ammunition, etc. |
|
|
|
Post by La Rouge Beret on Mar 30, 2021 10:18:33 GMT
Wonderful series of updates and this is one of my favourite timelines.
I'm sure the Dutch Balao class submarine will be flying the Jolly Roger, when she returns to Port following her first war patrol.
Well done by the Americans in obtaining the most leverage and greatest flexibility with diplomatic options.
|
|
oscssw
Senior chief petty officer
Posts: 967
Likes: 1,575
|
Post by oscssw on Mar 30, 2021 13:34:12 GMT
February 12, 1959In Washington, DC, London, Canberra, and Wellington Indonesia's ambassadors meet with the heads of each country's diplomatic service. In nearly identical letters, Indonesia informs the four countries with interests in the region that they have no intention of engaging any of their military forces in combat. They stress that President Sukarno has full confidence that any territorial disputes that they may have with the four countries can be resolved peacefully and without bloodshed. Yet they are also clear that Indonesia is determined to see their territory and people on West Irian returned to them. And while they regret that the situation has devolved into a military confrontation, they insist that Indonesia is simply exercising their right to self defense, as in their view, the Dutch are an illegal occupying power and that West Irian is rightfully a part of Indonesia. The message falls flat in all four capitols. However it does offer them a fig leaf to hide behind should they decide against aiding the Netherlands militarily. While not much, none of the countries involved has any real desire to fight yet another war in the Pacific so soon after the Second World War and Korean War had ended. Two Canaons and a Balao. Do you know what type of upgrades the Canons had? If they are still in their WW-II version; God help them against jet attack aircraft.
During WWII, the principal pieces of equipment would have been a "Q" series sonar stack, the tactical range recorder or chemical recorder as it was known and a MK1 attack plotter. WWII sonar had no visual presentation and the operator relied on sound to determine the direction and distance to a submarine. Supporting sound equipment, including the retractable transducer-receiver, is located in the lower sound room, which is located forward and just above the ship's keel. WWII era sonar was searchlight sonar that had to be manually moved in bearing as it was used.
FWIW, I have actually visited a mint condition Canon class DE. She is the USS Slater and has been fully restored to late WWII configuration by her owners in Buffalo NY.
At least the HNLMS Zeeleeuw is a Guppy conversion. The Zeeleeuw, along with Walrus, were Guppy 1B conversions. GUPPY 1B was a designation for a limited upgrade and modernization given to four boats for transfer to foreign navies. These boats had snorkels and were generally similar to the GUPPY 1A, except that they were not equipped with the modern sonar, fire control systems, or ESM.
Therefore GUPPY 1B retained the original battery wells, fitted with more powerful Sargo II batteries. The Sargo II was developed to be lower cost than the Guppy battery while providing most of the performance. These batteries featured electrolyte agitation, battery cooling, and open tank ventilation. They also had a longer life than the Guppy batteries, though shorter than the original Sargo battery.
In service, these boats offered greatly improved underwater performance. GUPPY 1B could reach 17.8 knots surfaced and 18.2 knots submerged as compared to the previous performance of 20.25 knots surfaced and 8.75.
|
|
oscssw
Senior chief petty officer
Posts: 967
Likes: 1,575
|
Post by oscssw on Mar 30, 2021 13:47:24 GMT
February 12, 1959
Amsterdam, NetherlandsThe Royal Netherlands Navy was going to war. And a long journey ahead for the ships as Egypt will most likley close the Suez canal for all Dutch ships. |
|
lordroel
Administrator
Posts: 68,044 
Likes: 49,445
|
Post by lordroel on Mar 30, 2021 14:09:42 GMT
And a long journey ahead for the ships as Egypt will most likley close the Suez canal for all Dutch ships. Because the Soviets might ask them, because Egypt might want to show support to a fellow Muslim country who is fighting against a colonial overlord. |
|
ssgtc
Sub-lieutenant
Posts: 496
Likes: 740
|
Post by ssgtc on Mar 30, 2021 14:15:35 GMT
February 12, 1959In Washington, DC, London, Canberra, and Wellington Indonesia's ambassadors meet with the heads of each country's diplomatic service. In nearly identical letters, Indonesia informs the four countries with interests in the region that they have no intention of engaging any of their military forces in combat. They stress that President Sukarno has full confidence that any territorial disputes that they may have with the four countries can be resolved peacefully and without bloodshed. Yet they are also clear that Indonesia is determined to see their territory and people on West Irian returned to them. And while they regret that the situation has devolved into a military confrontation, they insist that Indonesia is simply exercising their right to self defense, as in their view, the Dutch are an illegal occupying power and that West Irian is rightfully a part of Indonesia. The message falls flat in all four capitols. However it does offer them a fig leaf to hide behind should they decide against aiding the Netherlands militarily. While not much, none of the countries involved has any real desire to fight yet another war in the Pacific so soon after the Second World War and Korean War had ended. AFAIK, they had recieved minimal upgrades over their WWII fit. They were fine ASW ships, but that's about it. The Dutch are trying to get other forces in theater as well, but these ships had already been put on alert so were able to be sent almost immediately. |
|
ssgtc
Sub-lieutenant
Posts: 496
Likes: 740
|
Post by ssgtc on Mar 30, 2021 14:17:23 GMT
And a long journey ahead for the ships as Egypt will most likley close the Suez canal for all Dutch ships. Egypt was technically allied with Indonesia through both countries ties to the USSR. In OTL, the Netherlands didn't even try to send their ships through Suez just to avoid antagonizing Egypt. |
|
ssgtc
Sub-lieutenant
Posts: 496
Likes: 740
|
Post by ssgtc on Mar 30, 2021 14:18:59 GMT
Wonderful series of updates and this is one of my favourite timelines. I'm sure the Dutch Balao class submarine will be flying the Jolly Roger, when she returns to Port following her first war patrol. Well done by the Americans in obtaining the most leverage and greatest flexibility with diplomatic options. Thank you! The US is always willing to take advantage of a situation, especially if they can do it without it actually costing them anything. And there is a very real possibility of the Jolly Roger being flown. |
|
lordroel
Administrator
Posts: 68,044
Likes: 49,445
|
Post by lordroel on Mar 30, 2021 14:29:17 GMT
The Suez crisis was in 56. I know the Egyptians would not let the Israeli's use the canal but why would they deny it's use to the Netherlands? Egypt was technically allied with Indonesia through both countries ties to the USSR. In OTL, the Netherlands didn't even try to send their ships through Suez just to avoid antagonizing Egypt. Heck even Japan did not want to have any Dutch warship visiting during the OTL West New Guinea dispute and in Australia in 1960 the local seamen's union went on strike in sympathy with Indonesia; the crew of the Karel Doorman had to use the propeller thrust of aircraft chained down on deck to nudge the carrier into dock without tugs. |
|
ssgtc
Sub-lieutenant
Posts: 496
Likes: 740
|
Post by ssgtc on Mar 30, 2021 14:37:06 GMT
Egypt was technically allied with Indonesia through both countries ties to the USSR. In OTL, the Netherlands didn't even try to send their ships through Suez just to avoid antagonizing Egypt. Heck even Japan did not want to have any Dutch warship visiting during the OTL West New Guinea dispute and in Australia in 1960 the local seamen's union went on strike in sympathy with Indonesia; the crew of the Karel Doorman had to use the propeller thrust of aircraft chained down on deck to nudge the carrier into dock without tugs. The incident with the dock workers probably won't happen ITTL. IOTL, a lot of people agreed with Indonesia that the Netherlands had illegally held onto West New Guinea. That's not going to happen here with Indonesia having already attacked Dutch aircraft and warships. |
|
lordroel
Administrator
Posts: 68,044
Likes: 49,445
|
Post by lordroel on Mar 30, 2021 14:50:53 GMT
|
|
ssgtc
Sub-lieutenant
Posts: 496
Likes: 740
|
Post by ssgtc on Mar 30, 2021 15:46:50 GMT
He's very, very good at writing AH.
|
|
lordroel
Administrator
Posts: 68,044
Likes: 49,445
|
Post by lordroel on Mar 30, 2021 15:59:12 GMT
He's very, very good at writing AH. He is, but i have not heard from him for a couple of years. But going back to the thread, no visit of the USS Yorktown (CVS-10) and USS Ticonderoga (CVA-14) to Hollandia ore is that a bit to dangerous with the ongoing crisis. |
|
ssgtc
Sub-lieutenant
Posts: 496
Likes: 740
|
Post by ssgtc on Mar 30, 2021 17:12:34 GMT
He's very, very good at writing AH. He is, but i have not heard from him for a couple of years. But going back to the thread, no visit of the USS Yorktown (CVS-10) and USS Ticonderoga (CVA-14) to Hollandia ore is that a bit to dangerous with the ongoing crisis. Too dangerous. One or both MIGHT visit Port Moresby if they're ordered to remain in the area longer than planned. The US wants them there as a show of force, they don't want them to get shot up because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time. |
|
lordroel
Administrator
Posts: 68,044
Likes: 49,445
|
Post by lordroel on Mar 30, 2021 18:17:00 GMT
He is, but i have not heard from him for a couple of years. But going back to the thread, no visit of the USS Yorktown (CVS-10) and USS Ticonderoga (CVA-14) to Hollandia ore is that a bit to dangerous with the ongoing crisis. Too dangerous. One or both MIGHT visit Port Moresby if they're ordered to remain in the area longer than planned. The US wants them there as a show of force, they don't want them to get shot up because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time. Indonesia is not stupid to hit two US carriers, they would have Soviet advisors who most likely say, its okay with a Indonesia-Netherlands proxy war but hitting US ships is a step to far. |
|
