ssgtc
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Post by ssgtc on Mar 30, 2021 19:04:43 GMT
Too dangerous. One or both MIGHT visit Port Moresby if they're ordered to remain in the area longer than planned. The US wants them there as a show of force, they don't want them to get shot up because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time. Indonesia is not stupid to hit two US carriers, they would have Soviet advisors who most likely say, its okay with a Indonesia-Netherlands proxy war but hitting US ships is a step to far. Yes, but shit happens in war. How often have ships been misidentified from the air in war? There's also the fact that, once radar guided ASMs are launched, they don't care what flag their target is flying. All they see is a radar blip and they aim for the biggest one. Not their fault the target happens to fly the stars and stripes. |
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575
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There is no Purgatory for warcriminals - they go directly to Hell!
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Post by 575 on Mar 30, 2021 19:30:38 GMT
Indonesia is not stupid to hit two US carriers, they would have Soviet advisors who most likely say, its okay with a Indonesia-Netherlands proxy war but hitting US ships is a step to far. Yes, but shit happens in war. How often have ships been misidentified from the air in war? There's also the fact that, once radar guided ASMs are launched, they don't care what flag their target is flying. All they see is a radar blip and they aim for the biggest one. Not their fault the target happens to fly the stars and stripes. Seems interesting events is going to unfold! |
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Post by simon darkshade on Mar 31, 2021 0:24:19 GMT
One point of information regarding ‘external’ forces in the immediate region - in addition to the 28th Infantry Brigade, the British also have 17th Gurkha Division in Malaysia.
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Post by La Rouge Beret on Mar 31, 2021 1:48:02 GMT
Thank you for linking the story and I've just had a brief read. The Author is rather talented and knows his stuff, I'll certainly find it useful for a similar TL that I'm working on atm. |
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ssgtc
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Post by ssgtc on Mar 31, 2021 1:51:22 GMT
One point of information regarding ‘external’ forces in the immediate region - in addition to the 28th Infantry Brigade, the British also have 17th Gurkha Division in Malaysia. I missed them. Thank you. *shudders at the thought of an entire division of pissed off Gurkhas.* So, I'm thinking Sukarno will be reading his surrender speech in short order now. Lol |
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Mar 31, 2021 3:31:38 GMT
One point of information regarding ‘external’ forces in the immediate region - in addition to the 28th Infantry Brigade, the British also have 17th Gurkha Division in Malaysia. I missed them. Thank you. *shudders at the thought of an entire division of pissed off Gurkhas.* So, I'm thinking Sukarno will be reading his surrender speech in short order now. Lol That was OTL, now he has started a proky war with the Netherlands, has a lot more toys from the Soviets and has used them in combat against the Netherlands and we know from other wars that you only need a person who thinks he can do anything to do something stupid like Indonesia trying to invade Malaysia and pick a fight wit the British. |
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575
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Post by 575 on Mar 31, 2021 7:34:52 GMT
Gurkha Division!!!
British General "Jones brew me a cuppa - big one, just to give the Sergeant Major a moment to clear to road to Jakarta. Can't be all day!"
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Post by simon darkshade on Mar 31, 2021 10:09:21 GMT
The other Commonwealth elements in Malaysia at the time included the Canberras of No. 75 Squadron RNZAF and No. 2 Squadron RAAF, the CAC Sabres of No. 3 and 77 Squadron RAAF; 1 RAR and 2 RNZIR in addition to a British battalion. Back in the UK, strategic reserves at this point would be 1st Infantry Division, 3rd Infantry Division and 16th Independent Parachute Brigade Group; I’m not sure where 3 Commando Brigade was at this time, but 41 and 43 Commandos weren’t reformed until 1960/61
BAOR was 2nd Infantry, 4th Infantry and 5th Infantry Divisions. 24th Infantry Brigade in Kenya is another quick reinforcement unit.
My gut feeling is 3rd, 16th and 24th Brigades are the most likely quick reaction forces.
Depending on how this crisis turns out, there might be a number of changes to British military structure. Whilst the Americans really have the ability to intervene in the area, as of 1959/60, the Far East in the immediate vicinity of the Malay Peninsula is the one place where Britain could deploy a fair sized force; indeed, they had the second largest capacity of doing so in the world behind Uncle Sam at the time, but that sometimes gets lost in light of the big gap between the US and the rest.
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ssgtc
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Post by ssgtc on Mar 31, 2021 14:04:20 GMT
The other Commonwealth elements in Malaysia at the time included the Canberras of No. 75 Squadron RNZAF and No. 2 Squadron RAAF, the CAC Sabres of No. 3 and 77 Squadron RAAF; 1 RAR and 2 RNZIR in addition to a British battalion. Back in the UK, strategic reserves at this point would be 1st Infantry Division, 3rd Infantry Division and 16th Independent Parachute Brigade Group; I’m not sure where 3 Commando Brigade was at this time, but 41 and 43 Commandos weren’t reformed until 1960/61 BAOR was 2nd Infantry, 4th Infantry and 5th Infantry Divisions. 24th Infantry Brigade in Kenya is another quick reinforcement unit. My gut feeling is 3rd, 16th and 24th Brigades are the most likely quick reaction forces. Depending on how this crisis turns out, there might be a number of changes to British military structure. Whilst the Americans really have the ability to intervene in the area, as of 1959/60, the Far East in the immediate vicinity of the Malay Peninsula is the one place where Britain could deploy a fair sized force; indeed, they had the second largest capacity of doing so in the world behind Uncle Sam at the time, but that sometimes gets lost in light of the big gap between the US and the rest. I'll be touching on the response by New Zealand next. 75 Squadron is primarily equipped with de Haviland Vampire FB.5s at this time, the Canberras are actually RAF aircraft that were loaned to New Zealand. While the UK could deploy more ground forces to the theater, they are more concerned with what the Soviets are doing and if this is just a prelude to a general war with NATO. It's a legit concern. Cause an incident on the other side of the world, Watch forces drain from Europe, then spring your own attack when your enemy is weakened. |
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Post by simon darkshade on Mar 31, 2021 19:44:13 GMT
You are correct on the dual equipment of No. 75 Squadron; I recall the Canberra arrangement being mentioned in Operation Firedog.
Whilst the general principle of watching the Soviets is correct, the British did maintain large light forces for out of area/East of Suez operations and the general pattern for their engagement can be seen in Jordan 1958, Kuwait 1961, Tanganyika 1964 and the overall reinforcement/mini rearmament situation of Konfrontasi. That is why I did not believe that the heavier elements of the (as yet informal) strategic reserve would go, but the airborne and Royal Marine Commando elements would.
I don’t have a squadron by squadron breakdown of the RAF for 1959, so won’t make any definite comment on that circumstance.
As of 1959, SEATO and the Commonwealth role in the Far East were still very significant factors for Britain.
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ssgtc
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Post by ssgtc on Mar 31, 2021 20:15:52 GMT
You are correct on the dual equipment of No. 75 Squadron; I recall the Canberra arrangement being mentioned in Operation Firedog. Whilst the general principle of watching the Soviets is correct, the British did maintain large light forces for out of area/East of Suez operations and the general pattern for their engagement can be seen in Jordan 1958, Kuwait 1961, Tanganyika 1964 and the overall reinforcement/mini rearmament situation of Konfrontasi. That is why I did not believe that the heavier elements of the (as yet informal) strategic reserve would go, but the airborne and Royal Marine Commando elements would. I don’t have a squadron by squadron breakdown of the RAF for 1959, so won’t make any definite comment on that circumstance. As of 1959, SEATO and the Commonwealth role in the Far East were still very significant factors for Britain. From the research I did, the RAF had only 3 fighter/ bomber squadrons in the Far East at this point in time (2 at Tengah, 1 at Kai Tak). They also have at least two transportation squadrons and one PRU squadron equipped with Meteor PR.10s. Though like a lot of the RAF at the time, they were in the process of converting to new equipment. In this case PR versions of the Canberra. But they also have 3 fighter squadrons at Aden, one of which is already being deployed to the theater. They're also sending a bomber squadron equipped with Canberras from Crete. As for ground forces, had Indonesia not sent notice that they had no wish to fight anyone but the Dutch, the Airborne and Royal Marines would be on their way. But the thinking is that the forces they have in the area are sufficient to hold the Indonesians should they attack and more substantial ground forces can be sent should the need arise. The budget is still very tight and even this deployment is going to eat into the funds earmarked for other things. |
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oscssw
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Post by oscssw on Mar 31, 2021 23:16:08 GMT
One point of information regarding ‘external’ forces in the immediate region - in addition to the 28th Infantry Brigade, the British also have 17th Gurkha Division in Malaysia. |
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ssgtc
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Post by ssgtc on Apr 1, 2021 13:37:13 GMT
One point of information regarding ‘external’ forces in the immediate region - in addition to the 28th Infantry Brigade, the British also have 17th Gurkha Division in Malaysia. Hell, I'm Marine Recon and Gurkhas scare the piss out of me! |
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Apr 1, 2021 14:25:57 GMT
If a division of Gurkahs does not frighten the Indonesians; they are grossly ignorant or suicidaly stupid! Hell, I'm Marine Recon and Gurkhas scare the piss out of me! Well they seems to be deadly alright, here are they in action in 1949. |
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Post by simon darkshade on Apr 1, 2021 14:49:24 GMT
"If a man says he is not afraid of dying, he is either lying or he is a Gurkha."
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