stevep
Fleet admiral
Posts: 24,832
Likes: 13,222
|
Post by stevep on Feb 28, 2020 12:51:56 GMT
To respond, we’ll have what we can call Simon’s Amateur Strategy Hour: - The most immediate threat to Britain is Germany. The Kriegsmarine has been battered down to size, but still needs a strong force to counter it until it is worn down further. - The greatest long term threat to the British Empire’s naval security is Japan. Reinforcing the Far East will occur in stages. - This leaves the Med, the Empire’s strategic fulcrum. The greatest threats there, in order, are Italy, Austria, Spain and Turkey. - They cannot be allowed to coordinate, yet the Italians and Austrians can do that easily. - Out of Gibraltar and Suez, the latter is the most important. Therefore, the Ottoman Navy is the first target. - Next is Spain, ensuring that Gibraltar cannot be interdicted navally. - Bringing the Regia Marina down to size and then bringing it to battle would allow a smaller force to be maintained in the Mediterranean. - The Marine Royale plays a key role in the strategic calculus involved in this. The ultimate aim is to be able to contain Germany, Austria and Italy with a mixture of the 8 20” Nelson’s, the 18” QEs and Rs, the King Richard class battlecruisers, the majority of the French fleet and the older carriers. This would allow the new battleships and carriers to head east to Singapore. What do we think would be some of the lessons of Norway for the USN and IJN?
On that last point the RN has distinctly better and greater RDF/radar capacity than OTL and also as briefly mentioned, magic also plays a part. Other powers will also have magic capabilities but are are the US and Japan tech wise in terms of technology. OTL the US was similar in development and ultimately with its greater resources and the fact it wasn't blockaded and bombarded like Britain to be able to pull ahead in most areas. Japan lagged a good way behind and dropped further. Will this still be the case in DE?
|
|
lordroel
Administrator
Posts: 67,964
Likes: 49,368
|
Post by lordroel on Feb 28, 2020 14:29:27 GMT
The USN will take something of a different lesson, I believe, that may be more appropriate to the circumstances of the Pacific. Because the Pacific is more sea while the North Sea and Norwegian and Mediterranean Sea are closer to land.
|
|
simon darkshade
Inspector-General
Member is Online
Posts: 4,976
Likes: 5,840
|
Post by simon darkshade on Mar 1, 2020 4:44:59 GMT
Lordroel, you are quite correct on the dimensions and size aspect of the USN point of view.
Steve, the US is right up there in technological terms, albeit without the boost of the Tizard Mission etc yet. Japan is a bit further back in RDF terms. The general trajectory of development with regard to the USA and Japan will occur similarly.
|
|
lordroel
Administrator
Posts: 67,964
Likes: 49,368
|
Post by lordroel on Mar 1, 2020 9:19:51 GMT
Lordroel, you are quite correct on the dimensions and size aspect of the USN point of view. I also aumse that US naval carrier groups are a lot bigger than OTL as there are a lot more carriers in the Darkearth verse than they where in OTL World War II.
|
|
simon darkshade
Inspector-General
Member is Online
Posts: 4,976
Likes: 5,840
|
Post by simon darkshade on Mar 1, 2020 11:25:31 GMT
They will eventually settle on 4 carriers, 10-12 cruisers and battleships and 24-32 destroyers for each task force.
The Kido Butai will be employed as a large, single unit during the opening of the Pacific War, attacking Pearl Harbor with 8 carriers before linking up with the Combined Fleet to take on the Royal Navy at Singapore. That gets them into the most problematic scenario for Japan - attrition.
|
|
simon darkshade
Inspector-General
Member is Online
Posts: 4,976
Likes: 5,840
|
Post by simon darkshade on Mar 4, 2020 15:18:18 GMT
Another snippet, this time looking at Operation Judgment:
The end of the immediate threat of invasion allowed the redeployment of troops from Britain to North Africa in one of Prime Minister Sir Winston Churchill's more daring calculations, along with the much quieter dispatch of elements of the Royal Navy to the Atlantic and Mediterranean for what was to be the British Empire and Commonwealth's most effective counterattack in the disastrous year of 1940 - the combined offensives on land, sea and air in the Mediterranean. The Italian navy at Taranto stood astride the Imperial lifeline to Suez and presented the most serious threat to Malta and the parlous Allied position in North Africa, based as it was on the broken-backed French in the west and greatly outnumbered British Desert Army in Egypt to the east. Over 320,000 Italian troops had invaded Egypt on September 13th, but had made comparatively light advances against the 64,000 strong Imperial forces, made up of the 7th Armoured Division, the Indian 4th Infantry Division, the Australian 6th Infantry Division, the New Zealand 2nd Infantry Division and the South African 1st Infantry Division. The supply situation for General Wavell's troops was fundamentally limited by the threats to the Mediterranean sea route presented by the main battle force of the Regia Marina at Taranto, where 9 capital ships, 3 aircraft carriers, 25 cruisers, 42 destroyers and 26 submarines were poised like a sword of Damocles over Malta and the passage to Egypt.
Plans for an aircraft carrier strike upon Taranto had been prepared and refined since 1935 and were now put into place as part of a much broader offensive operation in the Mediterranean, involving separate heavily escorted convoys to Malta from Gibraltar and Alexandria, the reinforcement of Commonwealth forces deploying in Greece and a diversionary airstrike on Cagliari in Sardinia by a task force of HMS Argus and HMS Furious. It would occur on Trafalgar Day, October 21st 1940. Taranto was heavily defended in a conventional sense, with 227 anti-aircraft guns and 332 machine guns providing a strong coverage, although their barrage balloons had been blown away in an arcane storm two days before the raid. Admiral Sir Andrew Cunningham, Commander-in-Chief of the Mediterranean Fleet, had taken the main battle fleet out to escort the troop convoy to Crete, whilst a fast carrier task force of Illustrious, Invincible, Ark Royal, Eagle and Victorious provided air cover. The combined convoy operations had succeeded in lulling the Italians into a false sense of normality and the lack of Italian RDF left them open to an aerial surprise attack at night. The carrier force under Admiral Lyster, escorted by the battleships South Africa, King George V, Prince of Wales, Lion and Temeraire, the super battlecruiser Hood, 12 cruisers and 20 destroyers, broke away from the remainder of the fleet in the early afternoon and slipped westward under cover of experimental cloaking enchantments to reach their launching point in the Ionian Sea, some 240 miles away from Taranto, by 2200 hours that evening. Now was the time for the Empire to strike back.
64 Fairey Swordfish torpedo bombers (40 with torpedoes and 24 with bombs and flares) and 60 Blackburn Buccaneer dive bombers attacked the harbour in two waves, with the first hitting at 2258. Several large oil tanks were set ablaze, followed by numerous explosions as shore facilities were hit by 1000lb bombs. The battleships Leonardo da Vinci and Caio Dulio were hit by 3 and 2 torpedoes respectively and began to sink, with Giulio Cesare being struck by 4 torpedoes and 3 1000lb bombs and capsizing and Conte di Cavour hit by 4 1000lb bombs and 2 torpedoes, suffering a devastating magazine explosion. Enrico Dandolo was hit by 3 bombs and set afire, whilst her sister carrier Lorenzo de' Medici was put in a sinking state by a pair of torpedoes. The heavy cruiser Verona was hit by two torpedoes and 4 1000lb bombs and suffered a catastrophic magazine explosion which crippled two nearby destroyers, with Napoli, Turin and Gorizia were struck by torpedoes and bombs and began sinking. 6 Buccaneers and 5 Swordfish were lost in the attack. The second wave arriving at 2346 concentrated on the four Littorio class battleships. 58 Swordfish and 52 Buccaneers attacked into heavy anti-aircraft fire, with 5 Swordfish and 4 Buccaneers shot down. Littorio was hit by four torpedoes and 5 bombs, Vittorio by 2 torpedoes and 4 bombs, Sicilia by 3 1000lb bombs and Italia by 2 1000lb bombs, with Littorio blowing up half an hour later despite desperate attempts to save her. Vittorio was barely saved from sinking by running her aground with significant damage. The light cruisers Armando Diaz, Prospero Colonna and Luchino Visconti all sustained heavy bomb and strafing damage and three destroyers sunk in the second wave.
The aircraft were recovered by 0158 and the fleet retired to the southeast at 30 knots. The first Italian reconnaissance bomber flights took off at 0549 on October 22nd, but the carrier task force had continued its withdrawal under cover of RAF and RNAS fighter squadrons operating out of Crete. They were located by a Regia Aeronautica SM.82 flight at 0754, whereupon the Italian plane was shot down by Supermarine Eagles on combat air patrol, eliminating the possibility of an aerial counterstrike in revenge for the devastation inflicted upon Taranto. For the loss of 20 naval aircraft, the Regia Marina had been crippled and a famous victory achieved. 5 battleships, 2 carriers, 4 cruisers and 5 destroyers had been sunk, with 3 battleships, 5 cruisers and 12 destroyers damaged. The Battle of Taranto would have wide reaching consequences for both the Allies and Axis, but the night had been busy elsewhere.
|
|
lordroel
Administrator
Posts: 67,964
Likes: 49,368
|
Post by lordroel on Mar 4, 2020 15:24:10 GMT
Another snippet, this time looking at Operation Judgment: The end of the immediate threat of invasion allowed the redeployment of troops from Britain to North Africa in one of Prime Minister Sir Winston Churchill's more daring calculations, along with the much quieter dispatch of elements of the Royal Navy to the Atlantic and Mediterranean for what was to be the British Empire and Commonwealth's most effective counterattack in the disastrous year of 1940 - the combined offensives on land, sea and air in the Mediterranean. The Italian navy at Taranto stood astride the Imperial lifeline to Suez and presented the most serious threat to Malta and the parlous Allied position in North Africa, based as it was on the broken-backed French in the west and greatly outnumbered British Desert Army in Egypt to the east. Over 320,000 Italian troops had invaded Egypt on September 13th, but had made comparatively light advances against the 64,000 strong Imperial forces, made up of the 7th Armoured Division, the Indian 4th Infantry Division, the Australian 6th Infantry Division, the New Zealand 2nd Infantry Division and the South African 1st Infantry Division. The supply situation for General Wavell's troops was fundamentally limited by the threats to the Mediterranean sea route presented by the main battle force of the Regia Marina at Taranto, where 9 capital ships, 3 aircraft carriers, 25 cruisers, 42 destroyers and 26 submarines were poised like a sword of Damocles over Malta and the passage to Egypt. Plans for an aircraft carrier strike upon Taranto had been prepared and refined since 1935 and were now put into place as part of a much broader offensive operation in the Mediterranean, involving separate heavily escorted convoys to Malta from Gibraltar and Alexandria, the reinforcement of Commonwealth forces deploying in Greece and a diversionary airstrike on Cagliari in Sardinia by a task force of HMS Argus and HMS Furious. It would occur on Trafalgar Day, October 21st 1940. Taranto was heavily defended in a conventional sense, with 227 anti-aircraft guns and 332 machine guns providing a strong coverage, although their barrage balloons had been blown away in an arcane storm two days before the raid. Admiral Sir Andrew Cunningham, Commander-in-Chief of the Mediterranean Fleet, had taken the main battle fleet out to escort the troop convoy to Crete, whilst a fast carrier task force of Illustrious, Invincible, Ark Royal, Eagle and Victorious provided air cover. The combined convoy operations had succeeded in lulling the Italians into a false sense of normality and the lack of Italian RDF left them open to an aerial surprise attack at night. The carrier force under Admiral Lyster, escorted by the battleships South Africa, King George V, Prince of Wales, Lion and Temeraire, the super battlecruiser Hood, 12 cruisers and 20 destroyers, broke away from the remainder of the fleet in the early afternoon and slipped westward under cover of experimental cloaking enchantments to reach their launching point in the Ionian Sea, some 240 miles away from Taranto, by 2200 hours that evening. Now was the time for the Empire to strike back. 64 Fairey Swordfish torpedo bombers (40 with torpedoes and 24 with bombs and flares) and 60 Blackburn Buccaneer dive bombers attacked the harbour in two waves, with the first hitting at 2258. Several large oil tanks were set ablaze, followed by numerous explosions as shore facilities were hit by 1000lb bombs. The battleships Leonardo da Vinci and Caio Dulio were hit by 3 and 2 torpedoes respectively and began to sink, with Giulio Cesare being struck by 4 torpedoes and 3 1000lb bombs and capsizing and Conte di Cavour hit by 4 1000lb bombs and 2 torpedoes, suffering a devastating magazine explosion. Enrico Dandolo was hit by 3 bombs and set afire, whilst her sister carrier Lorenzo de' Medici was put in a sinking state by a pair of torpedoes. The heavy cruiser Verona was hit by two torpedoes and 4 1000lb bombs and suffered a catastrophic magazine explosion which crippled two nearby destroyers, with Napoli, Turin and Gorizia were struck by torpedoes and bombs and began sinking. 6 Buccaneers and 5 Swordfish were lost in the attack. The second wave arriving at 2346 concentrated on the four Littorio class battleships. 58 Swordfish and 52 Buccaneers attacked into heavy anti-aircraft fire, with 5 Swordfish and 4 Buccaneers shot down. Littorio was hit by four torpedoes and 5 bombs, Vittorio by 2 torpedoes and 4 bombs, Sicilia by 3 1000lb bombs and Italia by 2 1000lb bombs, with Littorio blowing up half an hour later despite desperate attempts to save her. Vittorio was barely saved from sinking by running her aground with significant damage. The light cruisers Armando Diaz, Prospero Colonna and Luchino Visconti all sustained heavy bomb and strafing damage and three destroyers sunk in the second wave. The aircraft were recovered by 0158 and the fleet retired to the southeast at 30 knots. The first Italian reconnaissance bomber flights took off at 0549 on October 22nd, but the carrier task force had continued its withdrawal under cover of RAF and RNAS fighter squadrons operating out of Crete. They were located by a Regia Aeronautica SM.82 flight at 0754, whereupon the Italian plane was shot down by Supermarine Eagles on combat air patrol, eliminating the possibility of an aerial counterstrike in revenge for the devastation inflicted upon Taranto. For the loss of 20 naval aircraft, the Regia Marina had been crippled and a famous victory achieved. 5 battleships, 2 carriers, 4 cruisers and 5 destroyers had been sunk, with 3 battleships, 5 cruisers and 12 destroyers damaged. The Battle of Taranto would have wide reaching consequences for both the Allies and Axis, but the night had been busy elsewhere. So a bigger Taranto than OTL against a Italian defense which looks also to be much more than OTL, while the British sink more ships as well, while only losing 20 aircraft.
|
|
stevep
Fleet admiral
Posts: 24,832
Likes: 13,222
|
Post by stevep on Mar 4, 2020 15:38:36 GMT
Another snippet, this time looking at Operation Judgment: The end of the immediate threat of invasion allowed the redeployment of troops from Britain to North Africa in one of Prime Minister Sir Winston Churchill's more daring calculations, along with the much quieter dispatch of elements of the Royal Navy to the Atlantic and Mediterranean for what was to be the British Empire and Commonwealth's most effective counterattack in the disastrous year of 1940 - the combined offensives on land, sea and air in the Mediterranean. The Italian navy at Taranto stood astride the Imperial lifeline to Suez and presented the most serious threat to Malta and the parlous Allied position in North Africa, based as it was on the broken-backed French in the west and greatly outnumbered British Desert Army in Egypt to the east. Over 320,000 Italian troops had invaded Egypt on September 13th, but had made comparatively light advances against the 64,000 strong Imperial forces, made up of the 7th Armoured Division, the Indian 4th Infantry Division, the Australian 6th Infantry Division, the New Zealand 2nd Infantry Division and the South African 1st Infantry Division. The supply situation for General Wavell's troops was fundamentally limited by the threats to the Mediterranean sea route presented by the main battle force of the Regia Marina at Taranto, where 9 capital ships, 3 aircraft carriers, 25 cruisers, 42 destroyers and 26 submarines were poised like a sword of Damocles over Malta and the passage to Egypt. Plans for an aircraft carrier strike upon Taranto had been prepared and refined since 1935 and were now put into place as part of a much broader offensive operation in the Mediterranean, involving separate heavily escorted convoys to Malta from Gibraltar and Alexandria, the reinforcement of Commonwealth forces deploying in Greece and a diversionary airstrike on Cagliari in Sardinia by a task force of HMS Argus and HMS Furious. It would occur on Trafalgar Day, October 21st 1940. Taranto was heavily defended in a conventional sense, with 227 anti-aircraft guns and 332 machine guns providing a strong coverage, although their barrage balloons had been blown away in an arcane storm two days before the raid. Admiral Sir Andrew Cunningham, Commander-in-Chief of the Mediterranean Fleet, had taken the main battle fleet out to escort the troop convoy to Crete, whilst a fast carrier task force of Illustrious, Invincible, Ark Royal, Eagle and Victorious provided air cover. The combined convoy operations had succeeded in lulling the Italians into a false sense of normality and the lack of Italian RDF left them open to an aerial surprise attack at night. The carrier force under Admiral Lyster, escorted by the battleships South Africa, King George V, Prince of Wales, Lion and Temeraire, the super battlecruiser Hood, 12 cruisers and 20 destroyers, broke away from the remainder of the fleet in the early afternoon and slipped westward under cover of experimental cloaking enchantments to reach their launching point in the Ionian Sea, some 240 miles away from Taranto, by 2200 hours that evening. Now was the time for the Empire to strike back. 64 Fairey Swordfish torpedo bombers (40 with torpedoes and 24 with bombs and flares) and 60 Blackburn Buccaneer dive bombers attacked the harbour in two waves, with the first hitting at 2258. Several large oil tanks were set ablaze, followed by numerous explosions as shore facilities were hit by 1000lb bombs. The battleships Leonardo da Vinci and Caio Dulio were hit by 3 and 2 torpedoes respectively and began to sink, with Giulio Cesare being struck by 4 torpedoes and 3 1000lb bombs and capsizing and Conte di Cavour hit by 4 1000lb bombs and 2 torpedoes, suffering a devastating magazine explosion. Enrico Dandolo was hit by 3 bombs and set afire, whilst her sister carrier Lorenzo de' Medici was put in a sinking state by a pair of torpedoes. The heavy cruiser Verona was hit by two torpedoes and 4 1000lb bombs and suffered a catastrophic magazine explosion which crippled two nearby destroyers, with Napoli, Turin and Gorizia were struck by torpedoes and bombs and began sinking. 6 Buccaneers and 5 Swordfish were lost in the attack. The second wave arriving at 2346 concentrated on the four Littorio class battleships. 58 Swordfish and 52 Buccaneers attacked into heavy anti-aircraft fire, with 5 Swordfish and 4 Buccaneers shot down. Littorio was hit by four torpedoes and 5 bombs, Vittorio by 2 torpedoes and 4 bombs, Sicilia by 3 1000lb bombs and Italia by 2 1000lb bombs, with Littorio blowing up half an hour later despite desperate attempts to save her. Vittorio was barely saved from sinking by running her aground with significant damage. The light cruisers Armando Diaz, Prospero Colonna and Luchino Visconti all sustained heavy bomb and strafing damage and three destroyers sunk in the second wave. The aircraft were recovered by 0158 and the fleet retired to the southeast at 30 knots. The first Italian reconnaissance bomber flights took off at 0549 on October 22nd, but the carrier task force had continued its withdrawal under cover of RAF and RNAS fighter squadrons operating out of Crete. They were located by a Regia Aeronautica SM.82 flight at 0754, whereupon the Italian plane was shot down by Supermarine Eagles on combat air patrol, eliminating the possibility of an aerial counterstrike in revenge for the devastation inflicted upon Taranto. For the loss of 20 naval aircraft, the Regia Marina had been crippled and a famous victory achieved. 5 battleships, 2 carriers, 4 cruisers and 5 destroyers had been sunk, with 3 battleships, 5 cruisers and 12 destroyers damaged. The Battle of Taranto would have wide reaching consequences for both the Allies and Axis, but the night had been busy elsewhere.
Very effective attack against a much larger Italian fleet compared to our world. Sounds like most of the Italian fleet has been put out of action for a while and a good chunk permanently. Hopefully there is also something done, say waiting subs and/or minefields to catch the remains of the fleet deploying to a 'safer' location.
I do have a question as can dive bombers operate effectively during the night as even with some illumination from flares and burning ships judging the altitude correctly is still going to be bloody difficult and there is the danger of some unintentional kamikazes as pilots misjudge the height and don't pull out in time.
Sounds like, as OTL, there are other things going on but probably a lot more than OTL in the DE universe. Also the WDF is significantly stronger than OTL and the front longer so I suspect something like Compass is coming up but a bit earlier here.
Steve
|
|
simon darkshade
Inspector-General
Member is Online
Posts: 4,976
Likes: 5,840
|
Post by simon darkshade on Mar 4, 2020 16:35:32 GMT
Thanks gentlemen. It is a devastating blow, albeit one with some caveats that follow afterwards, inflicted by 5 carriers each putting up 50 aircraft as compared to one putting up 20.
The Regia Marina are left with:
2 Aircraft Carriers Aquila: 59,000t, 102 aircraft, 24 x 90mm, 35kts Galileo Galilei: 34,000t, 52 aircraft, 16 x 90mm, 33kts
9 Battleships Roma: 120,000t, 9 x 600mm, 16 x 152mm, 24 x 90mm, 32kts Cristoforo Colombo: 54,000t, 9 x 425mm, 16 x 152mm, 32kts Marcantonio Colonna: 54,000t, 9 x 425mm, 16 x 152mm, 32kts Francesco Ferruccio: 54,000t, 9 x 425mm, 16 x 152mm, 32kts Bartolomeo Colleoni: 54,000t, 9 x 425mm, 16 x 152mm, 32kts Vittorio Emanuele: 70,000t, 9 x 510mm, 16 x 152mm, 33kts Ruggiero di Lauria: 70,000t, 9 x 510mm, 16 x 152mm, 33kts Marco Polo: 72,000t, 9 x 510mm, 12 x 152mm, 24 x 90mm, 30kts Francesco Caracciolo: 72,000t, 9 x 510mm, 12 x 152mm, 24 x 90mm, 30kts
- Italia and Sicilia are out of action until early 1941, but aren’t majorly damaged. - The Littorio class ships Impero, Supremo and Lepanto will commission over the next 12 months. - The liner conversions Falco and Sparviero will be nominally ready soon. - The Austrians and Germans will be coming south.
Nonetheless, this is the necessary first of three blows required to neutralise the Italians as a naval threat.
Attempts at traps do occur.
The Buccaneers were equipped with experimental darksights and some were used as level bombers.
There is a lot going on. The Grand Fleet pays a visit to Kiel on the same night and something happens in the Channel involving the first large scale attack by fireships since the Napoleonic Wars.
The Desert Army is going to launch an early Compass, leading to an earlier Austro-German movement into North Africa.
|
|
lordroel
Administrator
Posts: 67,964
Likes: 49,368
|
Post by lordroel on Mar 4, 2020 16:41:02 GMT
Thanks gentlemen. It is a devastating blow, albeit one with some caveats that follow afterwards, inflicted by 5 carriers each putting up 50 aircraft as compared to one putting up 20. The Regia Marina are left with: 2 Aircraft Carriers Aquila: 59,000t, 102 aircraft, 24 x 90mm, 35kts Galileo Galilei: 34,000t, 52 aircraft, 16 x 90mm, 33kts 9 Battleships Roma: 120,000t, 9 x 600mm, 16 x 152mm, 24 x 90mm, 32kts Cristoforo Colombo: 54,000t, 9 x 425mm, 16 x 152mm, 32kts Marcantonio Colonna: 54,000t, 9 x 425mm, 16 x 152mm, 32kts Francesco Ferruccio: 54,000t, 9 x 425mm, 16 x 152mm, 32kts Bartolomeo Colleoni: 54,000t, 9 x 425mm, 16 x 152mm, 32kts Vittorio Emanuele: 70,000t, 9 x 510mm, 16 x 152mm, 33kts Ruggiero di Lauria: 70,000t, 9 x 510mm, 16 x 152mm, 33kts Marco Polo: 72,000t, 9 x 510mm, 12 x 152mm, 24 x 90mm, 30kts Francesco Caracciolo: 72,000t, 9 x 510mm, 12 x 152mm, 24 x 90mm, 30kts - Italia and Sicilia are out of action until early 1941, but aren’t majorly damaged. - The Littorio class ships Impero, Supremo and Lepanto will commission over the next 12 months. - The liner conversions Falco and Sparviero will be nominally ready soon. - The Austrians and Germans will be coming south. Nonetheless, this is the necessary first of three blows required to neutralise the Italians as a naval threat. Attempts at traps do occur. The Buccaneers were equipped with experimental darksights and some were used as level bombers. There is a lot going on. The Grand Fleet pays a visit to Kiel on the same night and something happens in the Channel involving the first large scale attack by fireships since the Napoleonic Wars. The Desert Army is going to launch an early Compass, leading to an earlier Austro-German movement into North Africa. 2 carriers left for Italy, i assume they are prime targets for the Royal Navy.
|
|
stevep
Fleet admiral
Posts: 24,832
Likes: 13,222
|
Post by stevep on Mar 4, 2020 16:46:25 GMT
Thanks gentlemen. It is a devastating blow, albeit one with some caveats that follow afterwards, inflicted by 5 carriers each putting up 50 aircraft as compared to one putting up 20. The Regia Marina are left with: 2 Aircraft Carriers Aquila: 59,000t, 102 aircraft, 24 x 90mm, 35kts Galileo Galilei: 34,000t, 52 aircraft, 16 x 90mm, 33kts 9 Battleships Roma: 120,000t, 9 x 600mm, 16 x 152mm, 24 x 90mm, 32kts Cristoforo Colombo: 54,000t, 9 x 425mm, 16 x 152mm, 32kts Marcantonio Colonna: 54,000t, 9 x 425mm, 16 x 152mm, 32kts Francesco Ferruccio: 54,000t, 9 x 425mm, 16 x 152mm, 32kts Bartolomeo Colleoni: 54,000t, 9 x 425mm, 16 x 152mm, 32kts Vittorio Emanuele: 70,000t, 9 x 510mm, 16 x 152mm, 33kts Ruggiero di Lauria: 70,000t, 9 x 510mm, 16 x 152mm, 33kts Marco Polo: 72,000t, 9 x 510mm, 12 x 152mm, 24 x 90mm, 30kts Francesco Caracciolo: 72,000t, 9 x 510mm, 12 x 152mm, 24 x 90mm, 30kts - Italia and Sicilia are out of action until early 1941, but aren’t majorly damaged. - The Littorio class ships Impero, Supremo and Lepanto will commission over the next 12 months. - The liner conversions Falco and Sparviero will be nominally ready soon. - The Austrians and Germans will be coming south. Nonetheless, this is the necessary first of three blows required to neutralise the Italians as a naval threat. Attempts at traps do occur. The Buccaneers were equipped with experimental darksights and some were used as level bombers. There is a lot going on. The Grand Fleet pays a visit to Kiel on the same night and something happens in the Channel involving the first large scale attack by fireships since the Napoleonic Wars. The Desert Army is going to launch an early Compass, leading to an earlier Austro-German movement into North Africa.
Thanks Simon. Sounds like a hell of a lot going on but unfortunately it sounds like there will still be Axis ally forces reaching Libya and hence probably a prolonged campaign there that Britain can't really afford.
At attack on Kiel could be dramatic as well if it goes ahead. A fireship attack is going to be interesting to put it mildly.
Steve
|
|
stevep
Fleet admiral
Posts: 24,832
Likes: 13,222
|
Post by stevep on Mar 4, 2020 16:48:55 GMT
Thanks gentlemen. It is a devastating blow, albeit one with some caveats that follow afterwards, inflicted by 5 carriers each putting up 50 aircraft as compared to one putting up 20. The Regia Marina are left with: 2 Aircraft Carriers Aquila: 59,000t, 102 aircraft, 24 x 90mm, 35kts Galileo Galilei: 34,000t, 52 aircraft, 16 x 90mm, 33kts 9 Battleships Roma: 120,000t, 9 x 600mm, 16 x 152mm, 24 x 90mm, 32kts Cristoforo Colombo: 54,000t, 9 x 425mm, 16 x 152mm, 32kts Marcantonio Colonna: 54,000t, 9 x 425mm, 16 x 152mm, 32kts Francesco Ferruccio: 54,000t, 9 x 425mm, 16 x 152mm, 32kts Bartolomeo Colleoni: 54,000t, 9 x 425mm, 16 x 152mm, 32kts Vittorio Emanuele: 70,000t, 9 x 510mm, 16 x 152mm, 33kts Ruggiero di Lauria: 70,000t, 9 x 510mm, 16 x 152mm, 33kts Marco Polo: 72,000t, 9 x 510mm, 12 x 152mm, 24 x 90mm, 30kts Francesco Caracciolo: 72,000t, 9 x 510mm, 12 x 152mm, 24 x 90mm, 30kts - Italia and Sicilia are out of action until early 1941, but aren’t majorly damaged. - The Littorio class ships Impero, Supremo and Lepanto will commission over the next 12 months. - The liner conversions Falco and Sparviero will be nominally ready soon. - The Austrians and Germans will be coming south. Nonetheless, this is the necessary first of three blows required to neutralise the Italians as a naval threat. Attempts at traps do occur. The Buccaneers were equipped with experimental darksights and some were used as level bombers. There is a lot going on. The Grand Fleet pays a visit to Kiel on the same night and something happens in the Channel involving the first large scale attack by fireships since the Napoleonic Wars. The Desert Army is going to launch an early Compass, leading to an earlier Austro-German movement into North Africa. 2 carriers left for Italy, i assume they are prime targets for the Royal Navy.
The Aquila, with its large number of a/c is likely to be high up the RN hit list. However with a largely enclosed sea in the Med and numerous bases for all powers around it CVs are less significant here. Also there are still a number of bloody large BBs that will be seen as a threat. However definitely would like to see the Aquila removed from play.
Steve
|
|
simon darkshade
Inspector-General
Member is Online
Posts: 4,976
Likes: 5,840
|
Post by simon darkshade on Mar 4, 2020 17:15:19 GMT
They are, but as a consequence, they are very well protected.
The RN aren’t the only Allied fleet in the Med, with the Free French at Oran, Gibraltar and Alexandria.
They consist of:
A.) The 6 Gloire class super battleships, the aircraft carrier Saint Louis , 8 cruisers and 20 destroyers operating with the Royal Navy Mediterranean Fleet at Alexandria; B.) The aircraft carrier Brennus, 4 Dunkerque class battlecruisers, 4 cruisers and 18 destroyers operating with the Royal Navy Atlantic Fleet at Gibraltar; C.) Battlecruisers Hercule and Annibal, 5 Neptune class old battleships, 4 cruisers and 15 destroyers at Casablanca; D.) The main body of the fleet at Oran, with the aircraft carriers Suffren and Ocean, the 5 Agamemnon class battleships, 5 Redoubtable class battleships, 12 cruisers, 40 destroyers, 25 torpedo boats and 43 submarines. E.) The 4 Richelieu class super battleships, the aircraft carrier Henri IV, 8 cruisers and 24 destroyers are with the Grand Fleet. F.) The incomplete battleships Napoleon and Colbert and aircraft carries Charles Martel and Paris are in Britain
Many of the French ships will disperse, with older BBs used on convoy duty, newer units sent out East with the British and other operations. The French fleet is one of their key assets as an Allied power.
|
|
lordroel
Administrator
Posts: 67,964
Likes: 49,368
|
Post by lordroel on Mar 4, 2020 17:26:49 GMT
F.) The incomplete battleships Napoleon and Colbert and aircraft carries Charles Martel and Paris are in Britain Going to stay there to be completed ore will they move to the much safer United States.
|
|
simon darkshade
Inspector-General
Member is Online
Posts: 4,976
Likes: 5,840
|
Post by simon darkshade on Mar 4, 2020 23:00:42 GMT
The French can’t afford to either lose or complete them as of 1940, so they remain in Britain pending further work starting in 1942.
|
|