stevep
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Post by stevep on Jan 6, 2021 11:09:07 GMT
gillan1220 , Interesting. Points I notice are some additional members, most noticeably Mexico, Morocco, the Dominican Republic, Montenegro, Jamaica, Trinidad and Tobago, Bahamas, N Macedonia and a unified Cyprus although possibly missed a few. Other than Morocco, which is going to add to control of the western entrance to the Med the primarily change is in the Caribbean with Mexico, the Dominican Republic and a number of former British colonies added. Although I notice Belize isn't included and suspect that would be eager to be a member to gain support against any Guatemalan pressure. Although while you have the flag of Luxembourg there's a 'white' circle which seems to suggest that like San Marino, Monaco, Andorra and a number of other micro states its not a part of NATO? Steve
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gillan1220
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Post by gillan1220 on Jan 6, 2021 15:11:03 GMT
gillan1220 , Interesting. Points I notice are some additional members, most noticeably Mexico, Morocco, the Dominican Republic, Montenegro, Jamaica, Trinidad and Tobago, Bahamas, N Macedonia and a unified Cyprus although possibly missed a few. Other than Morocco, which is going to add to control of the western entrance to the Med the primarily change is in the Caribbean with Mexico, the Dominican Republic and a number of former British colonies added. Although I notice Belize isn't included and suspect that would be eager to be a member to gain support against any Guatemalan pressure. Although while you have the flag of Luxembourg there's a 'white' circle which seems to suggest that like San Marino, Monaco, Andorra and a number of other micro states its not a part of NATO? Steve This was just no-context scenario I had in mind about NATO expanding to Caribbean and North Africa. As for the small Caribbean islands joining NATO even though their military is small or weak, keep in mind Iceland is also a member when all they have is a police force and coast guard. I forgot to add Belize and Luxembourg. When I made this map back then, I was half-awake and was a bit excited to upload it. Perhaps I could do a follow up with Tunisia and Egypt joining in the mix. |
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jan 6, 2021 15:40:51 GMT
Would that not be called the PATO instead of NATO. |
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gillan1220
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Post by gillan1220 on Jan 6, 2021 15:50:15 GMT
Would that not be called the PATO instead of NATO. What does the P stand for? Actually if you noticed, all the members are still within the Northern Hemisphere so it would remain as NATO. In OTL, it has expanded eastwards to the point countries having no Atlantic coast being a member state of it. |
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jan 6, 2021 15:52:15 GMT
Would that not be called the PATO instead of NATO. What does the P stand for? Actually if you noticed, all the members are still within the Northern Hemisphere so it would remain as NATO. In OTL, it has expanded eastwards to the point countries having no Atlantic coast being a member state of it. Pacific Atlantic Treaty Organization instead of North Atlantic Treaty Organization. |
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gillan1220
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Post by gillan1220 on Jan 6, 2021 16:47:22 GMT
What does the P stand for? Actually if you noticed, all the members are still within the Northern Hemisphere so it would remain as NATO. In OTL, it has expanded eastwards to the point countries having no Atlantic coast being a member state of it. Pacific Atlantic Treaty Organization instead of North Atlantic Treaty Organization. It hasn't covered the Pacific yet...for now. May want to revisit this in the future. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jan 7, 2021 10:06:11 GMT
gillan1220 , Interesting. Points I notice are some additional members, most noticeably Mexico, Morocco, the Dominican Republic, Montenegro, Jamaica, Trinidad and Tobago, Bahamas, N Macedonia and a unified Cyprus although possibly missed a few. Other than Morocco, which is going to add to control of the western entrance to the Med the primarily change is in the Caribbean with Mexico, the Dominican Republic and a number of former British colonies added. Although I notice Belize isn't included and suspect that would be eager to be a member to gain support against any Guatemalan pressure. Although while you have the flag of Luxembourg there's a 'white' circle which seems to suggest that like San Marino, Monaco, Andorra and a number of other micro states its not a part of NATO? Steve This was just no-context scenario I had in mind about NATO expanding to Caribbean and North Africa. As for the small Caribbean islands joining NATO even though their military is small or weak, keep in mind Iceland is also a member when all they have is a police force and coast guard. I forgot to add Belize and Luxembourg. When I made this map back then, I was half-awake and was a bit excited to upload it. Perhaps I could do a follow up with Tunisia and Egypt joining in the mix.
Egypt would be somewhat challenging I suspect, depending on its reactions with its eastern neighbour. Also it would really need a more successful Arab spring or something earlier to make them more politically acceptable to the alliance.
I have no problem with basically non-military states being included. As you say Iceland is similar and with the right circumstances, say a more aggressive communist Cuba, or simply political or economic benefits from membership I could see it happening. They would if nothing else be useful in terms of basing rights and also giving a bit more political depth. The only problem might be if one went off the rails politically with some sort of dictatorship, although possibly NATO membership and the chance of allied intervention to deter that could be another issue for why such stats might want to join.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jan 7, 2021 10:16:16 GMT
What does the P stand for? Actually if you noticed, all the members are still within the Northern Hemisphere so it would remain as NATO. In OTL, it has expanded eastwards to the point countries having no Atlantic coast being a member state of it. Pacific Atlantic Treaty Organization instead of North Atlantic Treaty Organization.
I don't see why as there's nothing really Pacific about it, other than a few members having possessions there. True there are more states in the Med but then NATO has Italy, Greece and Turkey OTL while are solely based in the Med. Plus the Caribbean could be considered as an extension of the Atlantic. As such the focus of this alliance would still be around the North Atlantic and related areas.
OTL of course the western powers tried to set up alliances similar to NATO in other areas, such as CENTO and SEATO but they were never really successful. Its possible with the rise of China and its increasingly aggressive behaviour you might see at least a US attempt to set up a PTO [Pacific Treaty Organisation] but I would think it would be separate from NATO, although its likely to have some members in common. [US, Canada, possibly France and Britain for instance]. |
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gillan1220
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Post by gillan1220 on Jan 7, 2021 14:41:10 GMT
Pacific Atlantic Treaty Organization instead of North Atlantic Treaty Organization.
I don't see why as there's nothing really Pacific about it, other than a few members having possessions there. True there are more states in the Med but then NATO has Italy, Greece and Turkey OTL while are solely based in the Med. Plus the Caribbean could be considered as an extension of the Atlantic. As such the focus of this alliance would still be around the North Atlantic and related areas.
OTL of course the western powers tried to set up alliances similar to NATO in other areas, such as CENTO and SEATO but they were never really successful. Its possible with the rise of China and its increasingly aggressive behaviour you might see at least a US attempt to set up a PTO [Pacific Treaty Organisation] but I would think it would be separate from NATO, although its likely to have some members in common. [US, Canada, possibly France and Britain for instance]. One scenario I read on the Alternate History Fandom/Wikia had APTO formed after the UN won the Korean War. |
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gillan1220
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Post by gillan1220 on Jan 8, 2021 5:23:28 GMT
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gillan1220
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Post by gillan1220 on Jan 9, 2021 10:52:13 GMT
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jan 9, 2021 10:55:50 GMT
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gillan1220
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Post by gillan1220 on Jan 9, 2021 11:09:06 GMT
Created using mapchart.net then edited using the Preview app. Budget cartography. |
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jan 9, 2021 11:15:41 GMT
Created using mapchart.net then edited using the Preview app. Budget cartography. As i said on Discord, still better then what i am able to do. |
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James G
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Post by James G on Mar 18, 2021 18:23:29 GMT
I made this map for my Second American Civil war story. It was done using Paint. (click to enlarge)  |
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