stevep
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Post by stevep on Jun 5, 2020 12:53:42 GMT
lordroel , On today's [4-6-41] WWII post you mention the continued success in rounding up German supply ships in the Atlantic. Was this due to Ultra type code breaking? I know later in the war there was another round up of such vessels and the decision was made to leave one active because they didn't want to have the Germans suspect their codes had been broken then panic when the US, who were at war by that time, took that last one. I don't know if there were similar concerns at this point if, assuming it was Ultra that enabled their location. The speed with which their being snapped up does suggest that Britain had a good idea where they were and possibly they hadn't acted before for similar reasons but had decided they had to do something now?
A small quibble on one point:
Technically speaking I think it was the iron ore imported from Scandinavia and not sure how import this was once France and other sources in Europe came under their control - although think Sweden was still a significant producer of ore until the end.
That's a hell of a risk given how vulnerable a surfaces sub is to enemy fire. Even if the Valoroso only has a small gun a hit or two could leave it unable to submerge which presuming at least one of the Italian ships got off a radio message could have been fatal for Triumph. Although conversely hitting a small gunboat with a torpedo would have been difficult as well as overkill if it worked plus possibly it might have already exhausted its torpedo load.
Steve
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jun 5, 2020 13:42:22 GMT
lordroel , On today's [4-6-41] WWII post you mention the continued success in rounding up German supply ships in the Atlantic. Was this due to Ultra type code breaking? I know later in the war there was another round up of such vessels and the decision was made to leave one active because they didn't want to have the Germans suspect their codes had been broken then panic when the US, who were at war by that time, took that last one. I don't know if there were similar concerns at this point if, assuming it was Ultra that enabled their location. The speed with which their being snapped up does suggest that Britain had a good idea where they were and possibly they hadn't acted before for similar reasons but had decided they had to do something now? A small quibble on one point: From Wikipedia as a second source to your question: After Rheinübung, the Royal Navy made a concerted effort to round up the network of supply ships deployed to refuel and rearm the Rheinübung ships. The first success came on 3 June, when the tanker Belchen was discovered by the cruisers Aurora and Kenya south of Greenland. On 4 June the tanker Gedania was found in mid-Atlantic by Marsdale, while 100 miles (160 km) east the supply ship Gonzenheim was caught by the armed merchant cruiser Esperance Bay, and aircraft from Victorious. On the same day in the south Atlantic, midway between Belém and Freetown, the southern most limit of the Rheinübung operation, the tanker Esso Hamburg was intercepted by the cruiser London; while the following day London, accompanied by Brilliant, sank the tanker Egerland. A week later, on 12 June, the tanker Friederich Breme was sunk by the cruiser Sheffield in the mid-Atlantic. On 15 June, the tanker Lothringen was sunk by the cruiser Dunedin, with aircraft from Eagle. In just over two weeks, 7 of the 9 supply ships assigned to Operation Rheinübung had been accounted for, with serious consequences for future German surface operations.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jun 5, 2020 14:22:22 GMT
lordroel , On today's [4-6-41] WWII post you mention the continued success in rounding up German supply ships in the Atlantic. Was this due to Ultra type code breaking? I know later in the war there was another round up of such vessels and the decision was made to leave one active because they didn't want to have the Germans suspect their codes had been broken then panic when the US, who were at war by that time, took that last one. I don't know if there were similar concerns at this point if, assuming it was Ultra that enabled their location. The speed with which their being snapped up does suggest that Britain had a good idea where they were and possibly they hadn't acted before for similar reasons but had decided they had to do something now? A small quibble on one point: From Wikipedia as a second source to your question: After Rheinübung, the Royal Navy made a concerted effort to round up the network of supply ships deployed to refuel and rearm the Rheinübung ships. The first success came on 3 June, when the tanker Belchen was discovered by the cruisers Aurora and Kenya south of Greenland. On 4 June the tanker Gedania was found in mid-Atlantic by Marsdale, while 100 miles (160 km) east the supply ship Gonzenheim was caught by the armed merchant cruiser Esperance Bay, and aircraft from Victorious. On the same day in the south Atlantic, midway between Belém and Freetown, the southern most limit of the Rheinübung operation, the tanker Esso Hamburg was intercepted by the cruiser London; while the following day London, accompanied by Brilliant, sank the tanker Egerland. A week later, on 12 June, the tanker Friederich Breme was sunk by the cruiser Sheffield in the mid-Atlantic. On 15 June, the tanker Lothringen was sunk by the cruiser Dunedin, with aircraft from Eagle. In just over two weeks, 7 of the 9 supply ships assigned to Operation Rheinübung had been accounted for, with serious consequences for future German surface operations.
Thanks. 7 out of 9 in such a short period does sound like a intelligence breakthrough being used. This is likely, along with the growing numerical and qualitative improvements in ASW and convoy escorting, to finally close the 1st Happy Period.
Steve
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jun 8, 2020 11:21:52 GMT
lordroel ,
In today's WWII thread you have
Is this a reference to the 360 a/c - must admit I thought that BC had given up on daytime raids by now?. Definitely been more than 37 bombers in previous night attacks against Germany and elsewhere.
Also you have
I'm guessing that Endrass is the commander of U-46? Suspect it was only a glancing blow given the size of the tanker else I would expect the sub would only be going downwards but good to see the victims managing to bite back. 
Thanks
Steve
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jun 8, 2020 13:44:45 GMT
I'm guessing that Endrass is the commander of U-46? Suspect it was only a glancing blow given the size of the tanker else I would expect the sub would only be going downwards but good to see the victims managing to bite back. Yep, it is this person, Engelbert Endrass, sorry my troll normally edit out the names add places in the name of the submarine.  |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jun 9, 2020 10:45:53 GMT
I'm guessing that Endrass is the commander of U-46? Suspect it was only a glancing blow given the size of the tanker else I would expect the sub would only be going downwards but good to see the victims managing to bite back. Yep, it is this person, Engelbert Endrass, sorry my troll normally edit out the names add places in the name of the submarine.
No problem. Apologies for the late response but had a good evening session on the gaming so never checked back in again.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jun 9, 2020 14:06:41 GMT
Yep, it is this person, Engelbert Endrass, sorry my troll normally edit out the names add places in the name of the submarine. No problem. Apologies for the late response but had a good evening session on the gaming so never checked back in again.
No problem, the trolls who work on the daily updates always like it when you like the post and dread you when you spot something that needs to be edited. |
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Post by stevep on Jun 11, 2020 12:37:48 GMT
lordroel , One small quibble here on today's WWII thread. You have.
Thailand was still an independent state but Burma was a British colony so I doubt it would be considered a native power in the views at the time.
Steve
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jun 11, 2020 12:50:06 GMT
lordroel , One small quibble here on today's WWII thread. You have.
Thailand was still an independent state but Burma was a British colony so I doubt it would be considered a native power in the views at the time. Steve
Mabey in a ALT universe where the Empire of Burma manger to survive until 1941. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jun 11, 2020 14:55:33 GMT
lordroel , One small quibble here on today's WWII thread. You have.
Thailand was still an independent state but Burma was a British colony so I doubt it would be considered a native power in the views at the time. Steve
Mabey in a ALT universe where the Empire of Burma manger to survive until 1941.
Ah that's why they didn't mention British India here as in that universe its been conquered by Burma. |
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Post by lordroel on Jun 11, 2020 14:57:53 GMT
Mabey in a ALT universe where the Empire of Burma manger to survive until 1941. Ah that's why they didn't mention British India here as in that universe its been conquered by Burma. More Thailand than British India according to this map.  |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jun 12, 2020 11:57:31 GMT
Think there's a slight typo in today's WWII post:
Suspect it could be "Jade opens fire [or] returns fire" or "Jade opens fire and the E boats return fire"?
I checked my crystal ball and have a prophesy that in 10 days time you will become somewhat busier.
Steve
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jun 12, 2020 12:00:12 GMT
I checked my crystal ball and have a prophesy that in 10 days time you will become somewhat busier. Steve
Yep, for the next four years it is going to be a major front on the daily updates. |
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Post by stevep on Jun 14, 2020 18:42:55 GMT
lordroel , A small quibble with yesterday's WWII post. You have under the Atlantic Battle
Assuming one of those deaths, hopefully the latter is actually number of survivors.
On today's entry - for 14th June -
This seems to contradict the comments in yesterday's video by Indie that suggests he has serious doubts about the offensive. Also his name is "Archibald Percival Wavell," so don't know where they got Bernard from unless their thinking of "Bernard Law Montgomery"?
Well he got that right.
Interesting. Never heard of that before. Thanks.
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Post by lordroel on Jun 14, 2020 18:47:33 GMT
lordroel , A small quibble with yesterday's WWII post. You have under the Atlantic Battle
Assuming one of those deaths, hopefully the latter is actually number of survivors. On today's entry - for 14th June -
This seems to contradict the comments in yesterday's video by Indie that suggests he has serious doubts about the offensive. Also his name is "Archibald Percival Wavell," so don't know where they got Bernard from unless their thinking of "Bernard Law Montgomery"?
Well he got that right.
Interesting. Never heard of that before. Thanks.
Thanks, the facht you always notice these things means sombody reads it. I will make sure the Troll who wrote that daily update get a new assignment, what do you think of translating the entire Artamène into Nigerian Njerep as a punishment. |
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