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Post by TheRomanSlayer on Sept 27, 2019 19:40:15 GMT
But in this scenario, the Ottomans might not accept the two warships, citing neutrality.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Sept 27, 2019 19:41:27 GMT
But in this scenario, the Ottomans might not accept the two warships, citing neutrality. So they could be interned and latter the Germans would sell them due not being allowed to leave. |
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Post by TheRomanSlayer on Sept 27, 2019 23:03:58 GMT
Pretty much, although between the proposed Enver-Leontiev treaty and the OTL incident with those two ships, anything can happen.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Sept 28, 2019 10:36:09 GMT
The deal mentioned above is only made between Russia and the Ottoman Empire, with no British and French involvement in it at all. This proposal was made after Franz Ferdinand was assassinated, but before the two German ships arrived in Constantinople.
Interesting. Never heard of this before but definitely an intriguing possibility. I was thinking more about internal conflict inside the assorted Balkan powers being the big problem, especially as they need to trust each other as in many cases their giving up valued territory to bitter enemies. If someone reneged on the deal would the other powers be willing to enforce it?
Also what would be the status of Serbia in this? Presumably this is before Austria sent its ultimatum to Serbia so it would have to avoid doing that. Which given the anger over the assassination I suspect that would be unlikely, let alone handing over Bosnia to them.
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Post by TheRomanSlayer on Sept 29, 2019 0:45:32 GMT
The proposed treaty was made in August of 1914, so wWI already broke out by then. However, this scenario described in a previous post happens before the pursuit of the Goeben and Breslau (the two German ships I mentioned).
I'm thinking of making either a TL about this or a Munroist map for this scenario.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Sept 29, 2019 11:52:47 GMT
A few ideas
a) During the Munich Putsch one of the shots fired hits and kills Hitler.
b) The Giuseppe_Zangara assassination attempt succeeds and FDR dies before he starts his 1st term. As I understand it his VP wasn't a great supporter of the New Deal so how does the US fare without it?
c) General Metaxas, the Greek ruler doesn't die suddenly on 29th January 1941. He rejected direct military intervention by Britain in Greece because he feared it would lead to an overwhelming German response. Hence no British forces enter Greece and possibly as a result a new offensive in N Africa before Rommel can establish himself and revive Italian morale. Also Greece is likely to fall to the Italians at some stage if only due to lack of manpower but does it ask for British aid at a later stage? If so might it be too late for German intervention before Barbarossa?
d) The FA and FL [Football Association and Football League] co-operate to prevent the forming of the Premier League. The big clubs gain less of a monopoly of wealth and power. How might this affect the sport in England and possibly elsewhere?
Steve
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Zyobot
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Post by Zyobot on Sept 29, 2019 17:06:26 GMT
As one I haven't seen for a while, 'Mitt Romney Wins In 2012'. What could make President Obama unpopular enough for the general public to side with his Republican opponent, I'm unsure of at the moment.
I loosely recall hearing that Obamacare was widely disliked at the time, but further expansion on that point is best left to 'Politics and Current Affairs'.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Sept 30, 2019 14:51:03 GMT
As one I haven't seen for a while, 'Mitt Romney Wins In 2012'. What could make President Obama unpopular enough for the general public to side with his Republican opponent, I'm unsure of at the moment. I loosely recall hearing that Obamacare was widely disliked at the time, but further expansion on that point is best left to 'Politics and Current Affairs'.
It was widely disliked in the Republican party and the private health insurance industry and they killed up a lot of fuss but it did appeal to the millions - if not tens of - who couldn't afford even limited health insurance.
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Zyobot
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Post by Zyobot on Sept 30, 2019 19:09:08 GMT
As one I haven't seen for a while, 'Mitt Romney Wins In 2012'. What could make President Obama unpopular enough for the general public to side with his Republican opponent, I'm unsure of at the moment. I loosely recall hearing that Obamacare was widely disliked at the time, but further expansion on that point is best left to 'Politics and Current Affairs'.
It was widely disliked in the Republican party and the private health insurance industry and they killed up a lot of fuss but it did appeal to the millions - if not tens of - who couldn't afford even limited health insurance.
Yeah, that sounds a whole lot more like what I’d imagine is in line with what most Americans would think. Nonetheless, I do wonder what could drum up enough dislike for Obama so that M. Romney swoops in and wins in 2012. Or, maybe Obama could just be a one-term POTUS who declines to run for a second term, and the slate of remaining Democratic candidates winds up falling short in that election cycle. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Oct 1, 2019 9:56:36 GMT
It was widely disliked in the Republican party and the private health insurance industry and they killed up a lot of fuss but it did appeal to the millions - if not tens of - who couldn't afford even limited health insurance.
Yeah, that sounds a whole lot more like what I’d imagine is in line with what most Americans would think. Nonetheless, I do wonder what could drum up enough dislike for Obama so that M. Romney swoops in and wins in 2012. Or, maybe Obama could just be a one-term POTUS who declines to run for a second term, and the slate of remaining Democratic candidates winds up falling short in that election cycle.
The latter might be an option, given how much venom was being directed at him and his family. Possibly if there's an incident where their threatened by some nutter or simply the sheer amount of hostility directed at him he could decide enough was enough. If done too close to the 2012 election that could cause a fairly fervent battle for the candidacy which drains too much energy and makes the Democrats look too divided.
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Zyobot
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Post by Zyobot on Oct 2, 2019 2:22:01 GMT
Here’s one I’ve been mulling every now and then for a while: ‘(Effectively) Libertarian Ronald Reagan’. He’d probably still have to run as a Republican in order for the bulk of the country to strongly consider him (due to the Democratic-Republican duopoly of the times), but would espouse and govern according to basically libertarian values. Though, there is certainly the question of whether he can get his still-socially conservative party to shift accordingly.
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Post by Zyobot on Oct 3, 2019 15:14:15 GMT
'No Monica Lewinsky Scandal'.
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Post by altoncarroll on Oct 3, 2019 19:16:25 GMT
One I have in mind is no Navajo Code Talkers. The US never recruits them. Without an unbreakable code, the US takes 3 months longer to defeat Japan. Stalin invades N China as IOTL, going further by taking all of Korea and Hokkaido in Japan itself. The Cold War has no Korean War, only a united Korea under Kim Il Sung. Plus a N and S Japan divided much like Germany was, with N Japan ending at the same time as Eastern Europe communist states.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Oct 3, 2019 19:24:01 GMT
One I have in mind is no Navajo Code Talkers. The US never recruits them. Without an unbreakable code, the US takes 3 months longer to defeat Japan. Stalin invades N China as IOTL, going further by taking all of Korea and Hokkaido in Japan itself. The Cold War has no Korean War, only a united Korea under Kim Il Sung. Plus a N and S Japan divided much like Germany was, with N Japan ending at the same time as Eastern Europe communist states. All of that due no code talkers, never knew they where that special to the Pacific war. |
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Zyobot
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Post by Zyobot on Oct 3, 2019 23:08:42 GMT
'No Nukes'. In the short term, there's the question of how fast and bloodlessly the US defeats Japan. But in the long one, it has fundamentally game-changing implications for the Cold War with the communist bloc.
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