mullauna
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Post by mullauna on Jun 12, 2019 8:05:57 GMT
The complete territory of the German Empire at 6PM on the day it is proclaimed in 1871 is transferred to the same date and time in 1943.
Will be interesting, to say the least. Bismarck and Wilhelm I reacting to Churchill, Roosevelt and Stalin.
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mobiyuz
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Post by mobiyuz on Jun 12, 2019 9:25:01 GMT
So by this time, Nazi Germany would have occupied vast parts of Europe and had puppet regimes in states such as Hungary, Slovakia, and Vichy France, as well as having taken massive areas of Soviet territory, though they would be decidedly on the back foot by now, especially with Kursk coming up later that year. Of course, the question also remains if the Wehrmacht outside of Imperial Germany would pledge their loyalty to Bismarck and Wilhelm I, and if the Allied Powers would see Imperial Germany as a belligerent, or if the war in Europe just sort of...stops. And then there's the issue of places like Auschwitz and Treblinka, what happens when the Allies find them this time?
Personally, I feel like the displaced Imperial Germany would probably find itself drifting into the Allied sphere out of fear of Soviet communism, but at the same time they'd be lagging far behind the other Allies in pretty much every department, and whether or not they'd be willing to pull back out of places like France, since technically Germany is also still at war with France at this time, though with as much chaos as just went down it's more than likely that Germany would just call for a general armistice while they tried to get everything worked out. Meanwhile the Soviets are very likely just going to push through all the way to the new German border, clear through Warsaw even and pretty much just resume their dominion over Eastern Europe.
This is, of course, largely ignoring one major thing so far: not all of Nazi Germany fits within the borders of the German Empire. Annexed territory in the General Government, Czechia, Austria, and a few other places will still be part of "Germany", but there'll be a major question as to whether or not they're part of Imperial Germany. I think it's likely that they would try and hold onto places like Bohemia-Moravia and Austria, but it's more likely that the Allies would pressure them to give it up and relinquish their claims to it, re-creating nations that were there before WWII broke out.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jun 12, 2019 15:26:59 GMT
Well it would bring WWII to a much quicker and less bloody end as the rump Nazi war machine would be cut off from its main sources of equipment and supply. Even if it overran imperial Germany the industrial and technological base simply isn't there, let along that a lot of 1871 Germans would be appalled by the views of the Nazis on many issues.
The date of declaration of the German empire was Jan 18th so at this stage the western powers were still fighting the Nazis in Tunisia and the siege of Stalingrad was coming to an end and Soviet winter counter-attack was well under way. Not sure how long the supplies for the forces, especially in the east would last before they started running desperately short of munitions and spares.
Given the ISOT occurs at 6pm is very likely that any BC raid the following night will occur as it would take a while before the western allies get some idea that something has changed, let alone believe it so some areas of Germany are likely to get a very nasty shock even with the often limited accuracy of strategic bombing at the time. BC in turn are going to be pleasantly surprised about the lack of opposition to their attacks while possibly a bit confused about the lack of a lot of signs of major urban areas.
Since the war with France was ongoing at this point in 1871 I suspect that the bulk of the Prussian and allied armies have been lost as they would have been in occupied France at the time. So as well as their technological backwardness compared to 43 imperial German would be lacking in numbers.
Think the best option for imperial Germany once they realise what has happened, possibly with contact via Switzerland or Sweden, who I think are the only neutrals left who they might be able to contact, would be to try and surrender to the western powers and get as much as possible of the 43 military to accept their leadership. This might happen as with defeat in the east and the sudden disappearence of most of the Nazi leadership they might feel some loyalty to the old imperial government and/or seeing it as the best option for Germany. However at least some of the military and SS units especially are likely to oppose this while would the western allies accept the 1871 Germany borders. Thinking they would demand the return to France of Alsace-Lorraine, which in such a crisis Imperial Germany might well accept but the borders in the east could be more difficult for them to agree as those have been German ruled since at least 1814 and in some cases earlier.
Not to mention what Stalin's stance on all this is of course.
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