lordroel
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Post by lordroel on May 31, 2019 15:25:31 GMT
That makes me wonder, will the Malta-class and Lion class be build, ore is the Royal Navy of 1944 which was in the United Kingdom enough to reinforce the British holdings in Asia. It would depend on how things go. Suspect the Lions won't as really surface capital ships have had their day, although possibly not completely clear by this time. The Malta's might if Britain is economically less exhausted. I.e. it still has access to the FE colonies and hopefully won't need to fight to defend them, should have decent relations with a far less battered France, and quite probably good ones with Norway, Denmark, Belgium and the Netherlands. Most of all since it can claim Britain 40's financial assets and avoid the debts built up by 44 as well as use some of the advances in technology, including in areas like radar, electronics in general jet engines etc. One other fact that could play a part here is that possibly quite a number of the US people in the UK might end up staying as their position would be rather difficult in 40 US, as they try and mix in with their younger versions and families. Imagine if your got a wife back in the states who is now 4 years younger than you remember and married to a younger you? Or your family seems very outdated to the young man your become and possible rather parochial in comparison to your experience in the wider world. Or possibly trying to explain to the 40 you - that girl your hot on will run off with Joe while your off overseas? Plenty of scope for people to feel really uncomfortable if they return home.
That makes me wonder how Patton and Eisenhower and others are going to deal with their 4 year younger 1940s selfs.
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sandyman
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Post by sandyman on May 31, 2019 18:31:14 GMT
Reading Lordroel's WWII in real time reports this occurred to me. What if the British Isles and territory/associated waters along with all forces in them from 26-5-44, building up for Operation Overlord suddenly found themselves 4 years earlier? Taken the 26th May as the date Britain started Operation Dynamo, the evacuation of forces from Dunkirk?
In theory, given they react quickly enough the allies might successfully hold the Dunkirk pocket, at least long enough to land other forces in still undefeated France and have them smash the German forces and relieve at least most of France. Then after a pause hopefully drive eastwards and liberate the low countries and possibly end the war pretty quickly.
On the other hand there are going to be problems. The status of the large US forces in Britain are going to be awkward as many of them will think of themselves as allies and a large number will have experience of fighting alongside the British/Empire forces but technically the US is neutral at this point and what happens with those forces and their equipment. Especially since for most of them, as for some Brits and others there will be younger duplicates in the rest of the 1940 world.
Also 1944 Britain is heavily dependent on Lend-Lease and a complex series of trade and supply links, especially with the US, that are largely not in place yet so they could have problems maintaining their capabilities. There is a lot of shipping crossing the oceans and some escorts but the sophisticated and well equipped convoy escort system and ASW facilities have largely disappeared other than those units in the coastal waters brought along. Ditto that a lot of British and allied equipment is supplied by the US and there could be questions over ownership - to which Britain could counter yes its from the US but not this US as it wasn't built there. Similarly does Britain 44 owe anything to US 40 for supplies and goods
In the wider issue there are a lot of butterflies. Does Italy still enter the conflict or suddenly realise it may not be a good idea? If so does Britain 'respect' their neutrality - I suspect so but there could be tensions. What does Britain and the up-time Americans and others affected do about Japan and the situation in the Far East and how much would they be believed, at least at 1st in Washington especially. How does Stalin respond to the change, especially when he gets contacted by the 1944 Soviet embassy and other Soviet elements brought along?
Anyway nothing thought out but just an idea for possible discussion.
Given the shear amount of air power that is sitting in the U.K. ready to go I would say that the Germans are in for a very rude shock. There are also one heck of a lot of assault ships that will easily be able to land troops etc directly on to the Dunkirk beech head. The German Air Force would lose its superiority over the evacuation/ landing beeches in a heat beet. As to the U.K. being short of man power I agree how ever there just happens to be the BEF yes they have out date kit but that would soon be sorted as the stock piles for overlord would be large. Tanks totally different the 1944 British tanks would decimate the 1940 German tanks. Bomber Command has over a thousand heavy bombers to call on. If the Americans keep out of it I think the U.K. would still get the upper hand. Also the Japanese attack on Malaya and The Pear Harbour will be known about America in the 1940s version will have a shock and this would give them a kick up the back side to sort out MacArthur and for the Brit’s to get a grip of the idiots in Malaya. Big Bonus is HMS Hood is saved. British naval strategy is changed all the new battle ships still building can be stoped and Carriers built no huge national debt unless the Americans want to play silly bugger. Even if the 1940s American Government say sorry not our war I am sure the keys to the American storage depots may be lost and heads turned the other way when the brits come shopping. The US has now got a large well trained and equipped military which if not used in Europe would I am sure be sent the the Far East .
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stevep
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Post by stevep on May 31, 2019 22:59:24 GMT
It would depend on how things go. Suspect the Lions won't as really surface capital ships have had their day, although possibly not completely clear by this time. The Malta's might if Britain is economically less exhausted. I.e. it still has access to the FE colonies and hopefully won't need to fight to defend them, should have decent relations with a far less battered France, and quite probably good ones with Norway, Denmark, Belgium and the Netherlands. Most of all since it can claim Britain 40's financial assets and avoid the debts built up by 44 as well as use some of the advances in technology, including in areas like radar, electronics in general jet engines etc. One other fact that could play a part here is that possibly quite a number of the US people in the UK might end up staying as their position would be rather difficult in 40 US, as they try and mix in with their younger versions and families. Imagine if your got a wife back in the states who is now 4 years younger than you remember and married to a younger you? Or your family seems very outdated to the young man your become and possible rather parochial in comparison to your experience in the wider world. Or possibly trying to explain to the 40 you - that girl your hot on will run off with Joe while your off overseas? Plenty of scope for people to feel really uncomfortable if they return home.
That makes me wonder how Patton and Eisenhower and others are going to deal with their 4 year younger 1940s selfs.
Not just the US figures. A lot of British regulars are in service in the pocket and some of them are still available and in service in 44. The pleasure of telling Eisenhower he not only has two Patton's to deal with but if the US continues the alliance two Monty's as well. Also IIRC O'Connor, having finally escaped from captivity after several attempts was a corp commander during the campaign so there's two of him.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jun 1, 2019 9:15:41 GMT
That makes me wonder how Patton and Eisenhower and others are going to deal with their 4 year younger 1940s selfs. Not just the US figures. A lot of British regulars are in service in the pocket and some of them are still available and in service in 44. The pleasure of telling Eisenhower he not only has two Patton's to deal with but if the US continues the alliance two Monty's as well. Also IIRC O'Connor, having finally escaped from captivity after several attempts was a corp commander during the campaign so there's two of him. Was Monty 1940 in France. Also some people are now older, Churchill government, will it last another 4 years.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jun 1, 2019 11:20:37 GMT
Not just the US figures. A lot of British regulars are in service in the pocket and some of them are still available and in service in 44. The pleasure of telling Eisenhower he not only has two Patton's to deal with but if the US continues the alliance two Monty's as well. Also IIRC O'Connor, having finally escaped from captivity after several attempts was a corp commander during the campaign so there's two of him. Was Monty 1940 in France. Also some people are now older, Churchill government, will it last another 4 years.
He was in charge of a unit in the BEF and gained his 1st real combat experience there. I think it was mentioned somewhere in the WWII day by day thread, possibly when mentioning the commanding officer being ordered to withdraw. See BEF Experience, which mentions he was initially in charge of the 3rd Div and during the final stages took charge of the 2nd Corp. He performed very well during the campaign and probably 1st came to prominence there but then "On his return Montgomery antagonised the War Office with trenchant criticisms of the command of the BEF" That's Monty.
Good question about Churchill. He will have been drained by 4 years of war but then its very unlikely Britain will be at war for that long. Quite possible the war with Germany could be over or nearly so by the end of 1940, which would be a hell if a change. Still likely to see Labour win the next election although this could change. The previous election was in 35 so about due to have one anyway although could be say spring 41 now, at least as far as the rest of the world is concerned.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jun 1, 2019 11:29:49 GMT
Was Monty 1940 in France. Also some people are now older, Churchill government, will it last another 4 years. He was in charge of a unit in the BEF and gained his 1st real combat experience there. I think it was mentioned somewhere in the WWII day by day thread, possibly when mentioning the commanding officer being ordered to withdraw. See BEF Experience, which mentions he was initially in charge of the 3rd Div and during the final stages took charge of the 2nd Corp. He performed very well during the campaign and probably 1st came to prominence there but then "On his return Montgomery antagonised the War Office with trenchant criticisms of the command of the BEF" That's Monty. Good question about Churchill. He will have been drained by 4 years of war but then its very unlikely Britain will be at war for that long. Quite possible the war with Germany could be over or nearly so by the end of 1940, which would be a hell if a change. Still likely to see Labour win the next election although this could change. The previous election was in 35 so about due to have one anyway although could be say spring 41 now, at least as far as the rest of the world is concerned.
Will Italy keep quit, if i was Mussolini then i would not join the war, but then again he went to war despite some of higher ranking people advising him Italy was not ready for a war.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jun 1, 2019 12:44:53 GMT
Reading Lordroel's WWII in real time reports this occurred to me. What if the British Isles and territory/associated waters along with all forces in them from 26-5-44, building up for Operation Overlord suddenly found themselves 4 years earlier? Taken the 26th May as the date Britain started Operation Dynamo, the evacuation of forces from Dunkirk?
In theory, given they react quickly enough the allies might successfully hold the Dunkirk pocket, at least long enough to land other forces in still undefeated France and have them smash the German forces and relieve at least most of France. Then after a pause hopefully drive eastwards and liberate the low countries and possibly end the war pretty quickly.
On the other hand there are going to be problems. The status of the large US forces in Britain are going to be awkward as many of them will think of themselves as allies and a large number will have experience of fighting alongside the British/Empire forces but technically the US is neutral at this point and what happens with those forces and their equipment. Especially since for most of them, as for some Brits and others there will be younger duplicates in the rest of the 1940 world.
Also 1944 Britain is heavily dependent on Lend-Lease and a complex series of trade and supply links, especially with the US, that are largely not in place yet so they could have problems maintaining their capabilities. There is a lot of shipping crossing the oceans and some escorts but the sophisticated and well equipped convoy escort system and ASW facilities have largely disappeared other than those units in the coastal waters brought along. Ditto that a lot of British and allied equipment is supplied by the US and there could be questions over ownership - to which Britain could counter yes its from the US but not this US as it wasn't built there. Similarly does Britain 44 owe anything to US 40 for supplies and goods
In the wider issue there are a lot of butterflies. Does Italy still enter the conflict or suddenly realise it may not be a good idea? If so does Britain 'respect' their neutrality - I suspect so but there could be tensions. What does Britain and the up-time Americans and others affected do about Japan and the situation in the Far East and how much would they be believed, at least at 1st in Washington especially. How does Stalin respond to the change, especially when he gets contacted by the 1944 Soviet embassy and other Soviet elements brought along?
Anyway nothing thought out but just an idea for possible discussion.
Given the shear amount of air power that is sitting in the U.K. ready to go I would say that the Germans are in for a very rude shock. There are also one heck of a lot of assault ships that will easily be able to land troops etc directly on to the Dunkirk beech head. The German Air Force would lose its superiority over the evacuation/ landing beeches in a heat beet. As to the U.K. being short of man power I agree how ever there just happens to be the BEF yes they have out date kit but that would soon be sorted as the stock piles for overlord would be large. Tanks totally different the 1944 British tanks would decimate the 1940 German tanks. Bomber Command has over a thousand heavy bombers to call on. If the Americans keep out of it I think the U.K. would still get the upper hand. Also the Japanese attack on Malaya and The Pear Harbour will be known about America in the 1940s version will have a shock and this would give them a kick up the back side to sort out MacArthur and for the Brit’s to get a grip of the idiots in Malaya. Big Bonus is HMS Hood is saved. British naval strategy is changed all the new battle ships still building can be stoped and Carriers built no huge national debt unless the Americans want to play silly bugger. Even if the 1940s American Government say sorry not our war I am sure the keys to the American storage depots may be lost and heads turned the other way when the brits come shopping. The US has now got a large well trained and equipped military which if not used in Europe would I am sure be sent the the Far East .
Sandyman
Sorry nearly missed this. Started replying last night then there were connection problems and then meaning to reply this morning but busy with some other stuff then forgot about your post until I just remembered it.
The Germans are definitely in for a nasty time. Given the sort of air power the RAF can supply at this stage, even without the US forces they can hammer the Luftwaffe while simultaneously providing very heavy ground attack force to hit the Herr hard. As I said the picture of Rommel's division in neat lines like that if found quickly are going to be a killing ground. Plus given the air cover the RN can operate fairly freeing and their got a lot of forces ready for shore bombardment activities who can now switch to the German forces around Dunkirk and do a lot of damage.
By 44 Britain was running short of manpower but the following campaign with the heavy losses in France made this a lot worse. Here its likely losses will be markedly less simply because the German forces are less experience and more lightly equipped. Also while Britain is from 44 the rest of the empire is from 40 so have most of their manpower left. Plus as you say the BEF will provide some damned good forces, especially once they get upgraded. Albeit that when some of them meet themselves its going to be difficult for many of the 40ers especially.
On top of that of course its pretty damned certain that France won't fall and within a year probably prisoners already taken are going to be freed. As such that's another large pool of manpower for the war against Germany.
Its probable that no Japanese attack will occur in the FE, or if it is its going to be a very desperate operation. Apart from the fact that the allies will be ready and the European powers will be undefeated even if the Japanese strike earlier before the war is over against Germany - which would also mean they have less forces available as the last 2CVs of the KB weren't available until mid-41 for instance. Plus with France undefeated their unlikely to be able to pressurise them to allow Japanese occupation of French Indo-China which would makes attacks on Malaya and the DEI pretty much impossible.
A number of ships will be saved, assuming their away from Britain in 26-5-40 as otherwise their lost with the ISOT. Hood would be useful but possibly more important might be Ark Royal and also Glorious if she's already at sea by this date? Plus there is a lot of capacity for the really important ASW units now in Britain - while the lack of French ports for the Germans will greatly hurt them as well. Most of the OTL 44 ASW forces which were away from British waters will be lost but some would be in port along with the existence of weapons production, and training facilities as knowledge of the relevant doctrine. Plus many down-time ships around the world will be available and the U boats are a lot less capable at this point.
There is likely to be some problems with supplies from the US for a variety of reasons. L-L isn't in place yet so that's lost and also in many cases US supplied items and components aren't even designed yet let alone in production. However Britain has a lot of its own designs and production and should have a decent chance to reverse engineer required US equipment, possibly helped by the 44 US people. Although this may raise legal questions on ownership and the like. Also with Germany suddenly on the verge of defeat and Britain looking a lot more powerful - although weaker in a number of ways, the US could slip back into isolationism. Which raises the point, with no clear crisis in Europe and possibly criticism of his leadership over Pearl Harbour does FDR still stand for a controversial 3rd term in the 1940 US elections? That could be quite a butterfly that's just occurred to me.
In terms of ships, other than Vanguard, which is probably worth completing there are no large gun ships that are being produced in 44 Britain, although whether more CV are built depends on the post-war circumstances, political and economic as much as military. If your talking about the USN then I suspect that the BBs up to the Iowa's might still be completed as the USN is likely to consider it needs new ships for surface combat and shore attack to replace the elderly fleet it currently has. However very unlikely the Montana's will even be started and probably not the Alaska's either while just possibly the Iowa's might get chopped. Your going to see a lot of CVs built, especially of the Essex class but possibly not as many as OTL as I doubt the US will be involved in a major war against Japan and almost certain not again Germany. The USN will probably still measure itself against the RN and fairly easily outstrip it because of Britain's war weariness and the US's massive economical strength.
As you say even if Washington is unwelcoming about aid to Britain I can see a lot of stuff being lost by the 44 forces. When your been fighting side by side for 30 months it tends to give a good measure of common aims and mutual respect.
I mentioned the problems some of the US forces in Britain will have when they return home. Likely to be even worse thinking about it for BEF people when they get back to Britain. Imagine finding your wife and children now 4 years older and possibly with a new one or two accompanied by the 44 version of yourself, or finding that the girl you fancied might have ended up with someone else. Let alone the tragic cases where your home and family might have been lost in the Blitz. Not going to be easy for many of those veterans.
Steve
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jun 1, 2019 20:41:57 GMT
By 44 Britain was running short of manpower but the following campaign with the heavy losses in France made this a lot worse. Here its likely losses will be markedly less simply because the German forces are less experience and more lightly equipped. Also while Britain is from 44 the rest of the empire is from 40 so have most of their manpower left. Plus as you say the BEF will provide some damned good forces, especially once they get upgraded. Albeit that when some of them meet themselves its going to be difficult for many of the 40ers especially.
Here they get a additional, but strange new influx of new British troop they can use from the Dunkirk pocket, plus if the rest of 40 British empire recognize 44 Britain then those mean also more troops to be use with 1944 weapons.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jun 1, 2019 22:33:02 GMT
He was in charge of a unit in the BEF and gained his 1st real combat experience there. I think it was mentioned somewhere in the WWII day by day thread, possibly when mentioning the commanding officer being ordered to withdraw. See BEF Experience, which mentions he was initially in charge of the 3rd Div and during the final stages took charge of the 2nd Corp. He performed very well during the campaign and probably 1st came to prominence there but then "On his return Montgomery antagonised the War Office with trenchant criticisms of the command of the BEF" That's Monty. Good question about Churchill. He will have been drained by 4 years of war but then its very unlikely Britain will be at war for that long. Quite possible the war with Germany could be over or nearly so by the end of 1940, which would be a hell if a change. Still likely to see Labour win the next election although this could change. The previous election was in 35 so about due to have one anyway although could be say spring 41 now, at least as far as the rest of the world is concerned.
Will Italy keep quit, if i was Mussolini then i would not join the war, but then again he went to war despite some of higher ranking people advising him Italy was not ready for a war.
Trying again as just got a bad gateway message so possibly another version in the works.
OTL Mussolini went to war but that was because he though that not only was France being occupied and Britain evacuated its main force but that the war was effectively over. Here while there will be some confusion and initially disbelief at the initial reports of what's happened - given how wild reality in this case is - it will be clear that something has happened and shortly afterwards that the German forces, both air and ground are being hammered hard. Plus possibly 44 Britain knowing the importance of the issue could send some sort of sign, say a low flypast of Rome by some Lancaster's or some message relating to information they know that people outside Italy in 1940 wouldn't. I have a feeling that Mussolini will quickly lose his audour for conflict.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jun 1, 2019 22:36:11 GMT
By 44 Britain was running short of manpower but the following campaign with the heavy losses in France made this a lot worse. Here its likely losses will be markedly less simply because the German forces are less experience and more lightly equipped. Also while Britain is from 44 the rest of the empire is from 40 so have most of their manpower left. Plus as you say the BEF will provide some damned good forces, especially once they get upgraded. Albeit that when some of them meet themselves its going to be difficult for many of the 40ers especially.
Here they get a additional, but strange new influx of new British troop they can use from the Dunkirk pocket, plus if the rest of 40 British empire recognize 44 Britain then those mean also more troops to be use with 1944 weapons.
Basically my point, although the new weapons and their training could take some time. However I suspect that, provided there aren't serious problems with supply, the forces already in theatre are likely to be enough to smash the German attack and probably most of their forces in France and Belgium at least if not be enough to win the war against Germany. Especially since given Hitler I can't see proposals for withdrawal being accepted.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jun 2, 2019 6:28:16 GMT
Here they get a additional, but strange new influx of new British troop they can use from the Dunkirk pocket, plus if the rest of 40 British empire recognize 44 Britain then those mean also more troops to be use with 1944 weapons. Basically my point, although the new weapons and their training could take some time. However I suspect that, provided there aren't serious problems with supply, the forces already in theatre are likely to be enough to smash the German attack and probably most of their forces in France and Belgium at least if not be enough to win the war against Germany. Especially since given Hitler I can't see proposals for withdrawal being accepted.
I also will see no reason for 1940 France to surrender now that they have a new ace up their hand, but wonder how Paul Reynaud is going to handle a 1944 leader of the Free French named de Gaulle.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jun 2, 2019 8:31:04 GMT
Basically my point, although the new weapons and their training could take some time. However I suspect that, provided there aren't serious problems with supply, the forces already in theatre are likely to be enough to smash the German attack and probably most of their forces in France and Belgium at least if not be enough to win the war against Germany. Especially since given Hitler I can't see proposals for withdrawal being accepted.
I also will see no reason for 1940 France to surrender now that they have a new ace up their hand, but wonder how Paul Reynaud is going to handle a 1944 leader of the Free French named de Gaulle.
With difficulty given the latter's notorious ego. Although possibly he can get the two de Gaulle's together at which point they might well start squabbling with each other. Its going to be hard for the French to accept some of the details that the 44ers tell them. Possibly especially the role of the famous WWI hero Petain as a collaborator.
Definitely France won't surrender now and the substantial flow of British reinforcements, far exceeding the original BEF in size let alone fighting power will help boost morale, as will their air power and the intel they can supply about German activities. I would expect in a month at most the Germans would be cleared from virtually all of France and Belgium with hopefully heavy losses, especially if they can be pinned again the Dunkirk forces and a lot isolated there. iT may well take a while longer to force a German surrender - although given the possible size of the disaster there's at least a chance of an army coup forcing the Nazis from power and at this stage of the war their expectations may not be too extreme - but between the reorganised down-timer forces and the British from 44 it should only be a matter of time albeit probably with some hard fighting as the Germans adjust to the new power imbalance and find tactics to minimise the allied advantages.
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Post by lordroel on Jun 2, 2019 8:39:38 GMT
I also will see no reason for 1940 France to surrender now that they have a new ace up their hand, but wonder how Paul Reynaud is going to handle a 1944 leader of the Free French named de Gaulle. With difficulty given the latter's notorious ego. Although possibly he can get the two de Gaulle's together at which point they might well start squabbling with each other. Its going to be hard for the French to accept some of the details that the 44ers tell them. Possibly especially the role of the famous WWI hero Petain as a collaborator. Definitely France won't surrender now and the substantial flow of British reinforcements, far exceeding the original BEF in size let alone fighting power will help boost morale, as will their air power and the intel they can supply about German activities. I would expect in a month at most the Germans would be cleared from virtually all of France and Belgium with hopefully heavy losses, especially if they can be pinned again the Dunkirk forces and a lot isolated there. iT may well take a while longer to force a German surrender - although given the possible size of the disaster there's at least a chance of an army coup forcing the Nazis from power and at this stage of the war their expectations may not be too extreme - but between the reorganised down-timer forces and the British from 44 it should only be a matter of time albeit probably with some hard fighting as the Germans adjust to the new power imbalance and find tactics to minimise the allied advantages.
Let alone the Free French Army based in the United Kingdom. Wonder how 2nd Armoured Division (2e DB)—under General Leclerc will handle the 1940 Germans, would be cool to see the Free French 2nd Armoured Division go head to head against Rommel 7th Panzer Division.
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jun 2, 2019 8:47:30 GMT
With difficulty given the latter's notorious ego. Although possibly he can get the two de Gaulle's together at which point they might well start squabbling with each other. Its going to be hard for the French to accept some of the details that the 44ers tell them. Possibly especially the role of the famous WWI hero Petain as a collaborator. Definitely France won't surrender now and the substantial flow of British reinforcements, far exceeding the original BEF in size let alone fighting power will help boost morale, as will their air power and the intel they can supply about German activities. I would expect in a month at most the Germans would be cleared from virtually all of France and Belgium with hopefully heavy losses, especially if they can be pinned again the Dunkirk forces and a lot isolated there. iT may well take a while longer to force a German surrender - although given the possible size of the disaster there's at least a chance of an army coup forcing the Nazis from power and at this stage of the war their expectations may not be too extreme - but between the reorganised down-timer forces and the British from 44 it should only be a matter of time albeit probably with some hard fighting as the Germans adjust to the new power imbalance and find tactics to minimise the allied advantages.
Let alone the Free French Army based in the United Kingdom. Wonder how 2nd Armoured Division (2e DB)—under General Leclerc will handle the 1940 Germans, would be cool to see the Free French 2nd Armoured Division go head to head against Rommel 7th Panzer Division.
Now that would be an interesting encounter, although its more likely to be against what's left of the 7th Panzer after the air forces and if their close enough to the coasts the navies have had a go at them.
Just reading your WWII this day stuff and that mentions Ark Royal and Glorious arriving off Norway to help with the evacuate there. That suggests they were in Britain on the 26th May so have been lost to the ISOT. Which is a pity as they would be useful additions to the RN in the short term at least and probably longer for the Ark.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jun 2, 2019 8:49:30 GMT
Let alone the Free French Army based in the United Kingdom. Wonder how 2nd Armoured Division (2e DB)—under General Leclerc will handle the 1940 Germans, would be cool to see the Free French 2nd Armoured Division go head to head against Rommel 7th Panzer Division. Now that would be an interesting encounter, although its more likely to be against what's left of the 7th Panzer after the air forces and if their close enough to the coasts the navies have had a go at them. Just reading your WWII this day stuff and that mentions Ark Royal and Glorious arriving off Norway to help with the evacuate there. That suggests they were in Britain on the 26th May so have been lost to the ISOT. Which is a pity as they would be useful additions to the RN in the short term at least and probably longer for the Ark. Also we can put the Free Polish Army into the fight, 1940 is their best change to reclaim a part of their country, that is as long as the Soviet Union remain neutral.
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