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Post by lukedalton on Mar 18, 2019 19:54:47 GMT
Very good update I fear heads will roll once who did what or not reference air defences at home. Thank you. Yikes, I'm hiding! There's a big funeral in Washington the next day as well and the fear will be that it could have - even might be repeated - with that. The Americans were caught with their pants down and won't have this happen again. So, I've finally caught up and have to say, I'm really enjoying this. At the time the war broke out, I think I was in Korea and would probably have done my utmost to get out of there and to Japan or the like. But I don't know how hard that would be. There however are a few points that could be interesting. First of all, the Mutual Defense Clause was part of the Treaty of Lisbon of 2009 and it is formulated in stronger terms than Article 5. So, that would give Italy some pretty serious obligations and at the very least would lead to countries like Greece and Italy getting into a lot of trouble there because it obliges them to help with all means. Based on what I know, that's generally taken tl be anything short of actually joining the war, so at the very least logistics support and basing rights. Of course, I guess that Finland and Sweden can be forgiven for not doing too much because of their exposed positions, but it should give some further aid to the Coalition and be a point where Greece and Italy can be put under a lot of pressure. Thank you very much: we've been hard at work! Leaving S Korea might be best. Eyes from Pyongyang will be looking at the US getting beat up and wondering if there is an opportunity arising for the final liberation of the fatherland. I will be honest and admit that my dislike of the EU is a factor in the minor role I have given them in the story. I back-seated them because I didn't want my prejudices to show. You are correct of course though. The recent EU summit in the story will have seen many things discussed. Silvio - not long left in his position - offered much help and of course American jets on attack missions are flying from Italy while the country's airspace is open to allies. Greece has not turned against everyone else yet but is just staying out of this. Sweden would have helped with refugees from Norway & Denmark and given medical attention to evacuees; probably the same with Finland too. Ireland is in the EU too but not a Coalition member and I don't think they have yet to be mentioned. Continent-wide trade would have been heavily-disrupted as everything is so interlinked and certain national economies must be in the toilet by now. In short, the EU matter is a big gap in the story: they probably would have played far more of a role in trying to stop the fighting started because economic woes - the existing issues plus the sanctions on Russia - weren't a big enough reason to keep them out. I'll discuss this with Forcon and see where a future role for the EU might come in more than it has been. The EU will be 'forced' to take a more hands on approach at the various continental economies to coordinate relief effort and way to repair the disruption caused by the war; naturally the economic problem caused by the war in Europe will be felt worldwide, the Union is the world major trade block and the USA (aka the world first/second single economy) are involved in the war and with a president dead...basically even China will feel the economic repercussion and will not be very very good. Basically all the measure done in OTL for the Greece crisis and probably some more (eurobonds for everyone?) will happen...don't know how nation like the UK will react, but the war can make acceptable solutions that were considered impossible just days before.
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forcon
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Post by forcon on Mar 18, 2019 21:02:15 GMT
Ninety-Three
While missiles were raining down on the United States, Africa was about to get is first taste of the fighting. Colonel Gadhafi’s regime in Tripoli had been infuriated by the losses incurred during that engagement over the Mediterranean several days ago. The regime had been cosying up to Moscow since last year saw the major breakdown of relations between NATO and Russia. Several dozen hi-tech weapons systems such as the T-90 tank and Su-30 fighter jet had been sold to Libya at discount prices as a means of hitting back at NATO for its expansion into the Balkans last year, and Russian advisors had been in Libya training Gadhafi’s troops.
Across the border in Niger, members of the US 3rd Special Forces Group had been in-country, deployed to train the local forces on methods of counter-insurgency. After the fight over the Mediterranean, the Green Berets had found themselves engaged in several skirmishes with cross-border raiders from Libya.
There weren’t many casualties amongst the US Army troops, but the sudden increase of enemy patrols was a major concern and so one Alpha Team was granted permission to carry out close reconnaissance over the border. With little cover in the desert, the Green Berets were compromised and forces to fight their way out with several casualties taken. They’d left over twenty dead Libyan border guards in their wake, however, which was enough to further infuriate Tripoli and push Gadhafi towards retaliatory action.
Libyan Air Force Su-22s dashed over the ill-defended border into Niger and bombs the Green Berets forward operating base. Many of the bombs fell short of their targets, given the ineptitude of Libyan pilots, but several did strike home and caused over a dozen American casualties. Niger could offer little in the way of dedicated air defences and US forces in the Med were focused largely on countering the threat from Russia and perhaps Syria to the east, leaving the small contingent in Niger with almost no support. This changed after the airstrike in Niger.
Acting independently of NATO command, the Sixth Fleet was granted permission from the Pentagon to launch sorties over Libya to protect US troops further south in Niger and Mali. Initially, the Pentagon thought this would be an operation autonomous of NATO, with only US forces taking part. However, the French government, now located deep underground at Taverny Air Base, authorised its forces to begin operations against Libya as part of its own military campaign against Russia. Spain would follow, and after that, Libya would be considered by the whole Alliance to be an ally of Moscow. Maaten al-Sarra Air Base, from which the Su-22s had launched, was attacked in a retaliatory strike by F/A-18s from the USS John C. Stennis.
The Libyans put up a fight. Their new Su-30s and SA-20s would play a part in the efforts of the Libyan Air Force to counter this American strike. The Hornets and Super Hornets clashed with Su-30s, MiG-23s & Mirage F-1s. Shooting down eleven enemy aircraft for a single loss of their own, the strike force persisted southwards while more F/A-18s struck the known Libyan air defence batteries. Sixth Fleet would have liked to enlist the help of the Air Force or perhaps use Tomahawk cruise missiles to knock out the SA-20s, but this was very much an ad hoc operation, which was being carried out with very limited planning in order to immediately neutralise the threat to US troops in Niger and Mali.
Vapour trails criss-crossed the sky but almost all the Libyan SAMs missed, with only one Hornet downed and another damaged. When the F/A-18s reached their target they unleashed a variety of munitions; HARM anti-radar missiles for SEAD, Paveway bombs to destroy hardened aircraft shelters, and Mark-84s to crater the Libyan runways and taxiways. Fireballs roared into the sky as Maaten al-Sarra was obliterated by the US Navy.
Gadhafi demanded vengeance. Early on August 13th, the Colonel ordered troops to seize the embassies of various NATO nations and place their occupants under arrest.
None of the embassy staffs had gotten word to evacuate and although there was a brief warning issued, giving them enough time to burn documents and brace themselves, there was no hope of escape for Western diplomats trapped in Tripoli. The US and British embassies went first, with no resistance being offered. The Marines deployed for embassy protection duties could have fought back but the ambassador ordered them instead to stand down; even if they beat back the first Libyan elements, more would come and the situation would ultimately be hopeless. Troops stormed through the gates and the diplomats and Marines were taken hostages. The story was the same for embassies ranging from the Portuguese to the Croatian.
One major mistake made by the Libyan Army was the seizure of the Italian embassy. Though Italy was currently a neutral party – even if this was not to last – the Libyans hadn’t considered this. When the infuriated Gadhafi had ordered his troops to take Western diplomats prisoner, he had failed to specify that the Italian embassy should be avoided to prevent the further provoking of Rome. As such, troops went into the Italian embassy and took their staff hostage just like they did with the Americans and everyone else. It didn’t all go smoothly either.
A French military attaché was shot dead when he made an effort to escape, while a few American CIA personnel were able to evade captivity and make it to a safe house on the outskirts of the Libyan capital. By nightfall, over six hundred people from all across Europe and North America were in the custody of the Libyan military, with them being taken to the infamous Abu Salim prison, located within Tripoli itself.
Those unfortunate enough to already be imprisoned at Abu Salim were executed to make way for the new arrivals, who would face harsh conditions. Many would be beaten and robbed, there was outright physical torture employed against several intelligence and military officers employed to various Western embassies when it became clear that a small number of them had managed to evade immediate captivity. Several women were raped or sexually assaulted while in Gadhafi’s custody and the number of human rights abuses would only grow as time went on.
One-by-one, NATO countries accepted that a military campaign against Libya was now a necessity.
That night, Sixth Fleet would throw everything it had into knocking out the Libyan air defence network and then would begin a massive and targeted bombing campaign against that country.
Tomahawk cruise missiles slammed into targets within the heart of Tripoli, while B-52s flew sorties from England and Spain out over the Mediterranean, launching AGM-86s against Libyan airfields. The French and Spanish Air Forces joined in the fray, sending their fighters as escorts and in the defence suppression roles. They scored just as many kills as the US Navy fighters did, leaving much of Gadhafi’s air force, including several of the vaunted Su-30s, at the bottom of the ocean or in burning heaps in the Libyan Desert. The message was clear; embassies were to be left alone. The Joint Special Operations Command received orders from President Biden to begin planning Operation Midnight Talon.
An operation to rescue the embassy staff of NATO nations was to be launched as soon as possible. JSOC had at its disposal a squadron of Delta Force troops and a battalion from the 75th Ranger Regiment; joining them for this mission would be members of the Marine Raider Regiment and the Air Force Special Operations Command. Egypt was to be approached to ask for permission for a rescue mission to be launched from its territory.
Another player had joined in World War III.
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James G
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Post by James G on Mar 18, 2019 21:06:39 GMT
The Colonel is not going to have a good time!
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arrowiv
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Post by arrowiv on Mar 18, 2019 22:10:48 GMT
Any plans for Israel to help out being an ally or is it already tied up with Syria?
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James G
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Post by James G on Mar 18, 2019 22:12:35 GMT
Any plans for Israel to help out being an ally or is it already tied up with Syria? Neither of those two countries will sit this war out. I won't say any more for now but hope not to disappoint with how that plays.
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Post by lukedalton on Mar 18, 2019 23:25:41 GMT
Smart move: seize the personell of the various embassies but leave the Italians alone, keep the intelligence officers but let Silvio personally bring home the others...he get a lot of point with the rest of the alliance and EU and it will be an epic move internally, by now he can't be throw out even if someone reveal a lot of his dirty doing.
Neutral move: take the western personell and leave the italian alone, politely ignore Berlusconi attempt to mediate
Extremely idiotic move done only by someone with no brain: well what happened ITTL
With this move, very friendly or not (yes Berlusconi, but also our current leadership seem very friendly with the scum of the planet isn't?) even Silvio will be forced to Dow Libya and join the fight...that or by the end of the day there will be a new presidente del consiglio; sure it will be very akwaard due to our past story with Libya and more specifically the 'good' colonell but taking the italian embassy while we are a neutral party (well more or less) will mean that except the usual dictator apologist and extreme anti-western type (and even them will be better not talk too much) everyone in the parlamient will be ok for formally declare war at Libya and his allies
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James G
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Post by James G on Mar 18, 2019 23:30:10 GMT
Smart move: seize the personell of the various embassies but leave the Italians alone, keep the intelligence officers but let Silvio personally bring home the others...he get a lot of point with the rest of the alliance and EU and it will be an epic move internally, by now he can't be throw out even if someone reveal a lot of his dirty doing. Neutral move: take the western personell and leave the italian alone, politely ignore Berlusconi attempt to mediate Extremely idiotic move done only by someone with no brain: well what happened ITTL With this move, very friendly or not (yes Berlusconi, but also our current leadership seem very friendly with the scum of the planet isn't?) even Silvio will be forced to Dow Libya and join the fight...that or by the end of the day there will be a new presidente del consiglio; sure it will be very akwaard due to our past story with Libya and more specifically the 'good' colonell but taking the italian embassy while we are a neutral party (well more or less) will mean that except the usual dictator apologist and extreme anti-western type (and even them will be better not talk too much) everyone in the parlamient will be ok for formally declare war at Libya and his allies Yep, the Colonel messed up and this will not be good. Libya isn't in the position that it was in 2011 admittedly but 2011 showed the weakness there. Silvio's opponents will now have all the ammunition they need no matter what he does.
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raunchel
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Post by raunchel on Mar 19, 2019 9:21:31 GMT
Ghadaffi (may his spellings be many) has made a serious mistake here, but I think that it's the kind of thing he would be doing. After all, he sees the Russians doing very well and will probably think that the West is being too distracted to really do much to him.
And if he doesn't specify which embassies to storm, well, there was quite a bit of propaganda about Italy so they would certainly not forget to attack it.
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James G
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Post by James G on Mar 19, 2019 9:39:15 GMT
Ghadaffi (may his spellings be many) has made a serious mistake here, but I think that it's the kind of thing he would be doing. After all, he sees the Russians doing very well and will probably think that the West is being too distracted to really do much to him. And if he doesn't specify which embassies to storm, well, there was quite a bit of propaganda about Italy so they would certainly not forget to attack it. I Just call him 'the Colonel'. That's exactly what has occured: similar to Mussolini in 1940 in joining the supposedly winning site. This a big mistake.
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raunchel
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Post by raunchel on Mar 19, 2019 13:01:08 GMT
Ghadaffi (may his spellings be many) has made a serious mistake here, but I think that it's the kind of thing he would be doing. After all, he sees the Russians doing very well and will probably think that the West is being too distracted to really do much to him. And if he doesn't specify which embassies to storm, well, there was quite a bit of propaganda about Italy so they would certainly not forget to attack it. I Just call him 'the Colonel'. That's exactly what has occured: similar to Mussolini in 1940 in joining the supposedly winning site. This a big mistake. That seems like it's the best option yes. And it's almost funny how he follows an Italian's mistakes.
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James G
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Post by James G on Mar 19, 2019 21:09:00 GMT
Ninety–Four
By the end of the seventh day of the war, Friday 13th of August, the combined losses of combat aircraft for the Russian and Belorussian air forces reached two hundred and fifty. This included those in other theaters (over Norway, the Black Sea and Central Asia) yet the majority had been inflicted upon aircraft taking part in Operation Slava. Glory it wasn’t with such high numbers. The figure too excluded attack helicopters, transports and other specialist aircraft. Those which were covered under the main total had been lost in combat in the skies, shot down by air defences, bombed when on the ground or destroyed in accidents while taking part in the war. Such losses were enough to bring tears to the eye. Pre-war estimates had said that one hundred, maybe one fifty at the very most if things went badly wrong, would be lost in a week of war: how wrong those who seemingly picked that number out of the sky had been. Before the fighting started, NATO air strength – in terms of numbers, capability and experience – was recognised for what it was and not in any way dismissed yet there had been the belief that Russian forces, even the Belorussians too (at least over their own territory), would be able to hold their own as long as they played it smart. Playing it smart had been done yet still all of those aircraft had been lost. The airframes and the aircrews were replaceable but only in the long-term. For now they were gone though, no longer available for much-needed duties fighting this war against NATO.
NATO air losses weren’t that far behind. They’d arguably won the air war but had taken many of their own losses. Two hundred and ten or so was their total loss number, a figure distorted by the destruction of the aircraft carrier USS Harry S. Truman with fifty combat aircraft aboard. Russian air defences had been responsible for many, many NATO aircraft being lost. Their fighter efforts in the sky had been weak but not their anti-air platforms on the ground. It was these which had claimed so may NATO jets. Guided anti-aircraft artillery and SAMs had been used to bring down enemy aircraft… as well as inflicting friendly fire on their own side on several occasions as well. There were strategic- & operational- & tactical-level air defence systems. These worked together and worked individually too. NATO had thrown plenty of firepower at these weapons to eliminate them, often being forced to commit more missions to their destruction than the effort made to attack the targets which they protected. These air defences were all fully mobile. They were hidden well too with a lot of ingenuity used to disguise their presence. The Russians had dummy systems everywhere as well, platforms which were very much the real deal in the eyes of NATO until they were actually attacked. Older weapons had been removed from storage to complement newer ones: many of the legacy systems were just as deadly as the newer ones. All the way down to battalion-level for ground units moving forward and up to the air defences of the Russian & Belorussian homelands, there were anti-air platforms firing on NATO aircraft. Unwillingly and through gritted teeth, in the face of staggering losses to them, certain areas were off-limits to attacking aircraft. 1 ATAF – operating as the centralised command for NATO air assets throughout Eastern Europe – changed these on a regular basis responding to threat levels but larger and larger areas of the enemy rear were soon left unmolested. Flying into them was a literal death sentence for the aircrews. This was extremely controversial yet understood by many to be necessary. Those ‘no-go areas’ (mainly in Belarus though also through parts of the Kaliningrad Oblast too) were soon to cease to exist though. There were major air reinforcements arriving for NATO.
These were American combat aircraft assigned to the Air Force Reserve Command and the Air National Guard. Mobilised en masse at the start of the war, both the AFRC & ANG deployed with haste to Europe. Moving the aircraft themselves was quick but it took time to get the whole set-up which came with them across the ocean. Transport aircraft flew personnel, equipment and stores over the North Atlantic in flight after flight. Several squadrons had come on line in the past few days – a couple of AFRC units pre-alerted for possible wartime deployment – though today was when the majority of them first became available for action. These reinforcements were formed of first-rate aircraft: A-10s, F-15s and F-16s. There were a lot of them, all flown and operated (on the ground) by well-experienced and capable personnel who’d seen war before. Airbases and airports through Poland, the Czech Republic, Denmark, Germany and Slovakia filled up. There were further AFRC & ANG units sent elsewhere in the world, and some kept at home, yet it did seem like the whole of the many flying units all assigned to both were in Eastern Europe at once. There were so many of these jets and all were tasked for missions under 1 ATAF. 1 ATAF really needed them. Those losses had weakened the newly-formed command (it operated under CJTF-East led by General Mattis) but these reinforcements turned things around. There were now so much more that could be done with them here. European members of NATO watched with awe but also jealousy at this reinforcement. More than half of the downed aircraft had been from European nations. They couldn’t replace their losses in the short-term like the Americans could: their situation was similar to the one Russia was in with that only being a long-term option, and an extremely difficult one too. Training units had already been stripped bare for airframes and personnel but Britain, France, Germany, Poland and the others had nothing like the AFRC & ANG.
Regular US Air Force combat units aplenty were in Eastern Europe under 1 ATAF command. There were those deployed ahead of the conflict and then more moved in afterwards. They too had A-10s, F-15s and F-16s as well as F-22s. In addition, the Americans had with them their armed drones. The US Air Force had reconnaissance-rolled MQ-1 Predators which could carry weapons though also newer MQ-9 Reapers designed for combat rather than that being an add-on. The RAF had some of the latter too, barely a handful but better than having none. The Predators and Reapers had been and continued to be busy. They flew from sites in Eastern Europe with personnel assigned to get them airborne and then land them afterwards this side of the ocean. However, far off in distant Nevada, American and British personnel acted as a ‘pilot’ and a ‘weapons system officer’ for each during their flights. Satellite communications were used leaving only a second-long delay in their operations from when those over in North America had the drones see action across here in Eastern Europe. Predators carried out their scouting tasks with a few direct attacks made; the Reapers were used almost solely for strike tasks. The Russians went after them. They shot long-range missiles at the sites from where they flew – small airstrips rather than the big main jet bases – and then engaged them in the skies with both SAMs & even fighters. Several had been lost, though not included in the 210 number for NATO air loses. Today, the Reapers especially made their mark on the raging air war where many of them (there were some in ANG service too) flew multiple missions above Kaliningrad. They were sent in on a search-and-destroy mission with nearly a dozen flying all in crowded airspace: around them, many of those reinforcing American air assets were conducting daytime air strikes over Kaliningrad in numbers too in something else not done before apart from at night. Reapers went after mobile targets. Their long loiter time gave them the ability to operate in the hunt for them where external surveillance sensors supported their flights. They went after Iskander missile-launchers hidden away as well as mobile SAM launchers targeting manned aircraft over this little slice of Russian territory too. A mobile command column, believed to be a regimental post for Russian paratroopers pulled into the rear after fighting in Poland, was struck with moving command versions of the BTR-70 identified by radio antenna and hit with Hellfire missiles. Another successful Reaper attack eliminated a battery of SAM-launchers with JDAM bombs moving down from Estonia all the way towards Poland: these belonged to a combat brigade redeploying and was helping to defend the larger force against NATO air strikes with F-16s. The Reapers came under fire though. Two of them were downed. A Tunguska system – guns and short-range SAMs – hit one of the American ones and a British drone was lost to a Tor-M1 SA-15 air defence system as well. These unmanned aircraft were just as exposed to Russian attack from their anti-air platforms like their manned counterparts were.
Today was the first day during the fighting where neither the Russians nor Belorussians made long-range attacks with their aircraft into Poland nor pushed flights of fighters forward either to try to sweep the skies to protect those air strikes. They kept their strike assets back on the ground and the fighters stayed in friendly air space on defensive missions. There was no deliberate act of ceding of the skies to NATO, not officially anyway. What was done was instead the careful marshalling of assets. Intelligence had picked up the mass reinforcement for 1 ATAF and the presence of so many opposing aircraft over enemy skies was anticipated. So too were the NATO air attacks forward. There were launches made again of a couple of those KS-172S missiles fired at distances of several hundred miles against high-value NATO aircraft – hitting a E-8 JSTARS aircraft today but missing two E-2 Sentry aircraft; these missiles had a poor overall success rate only offset by the damage they caused when they did hit a target – and a flight of Sukhoi-30Ms flew a fighter sweep over the Baltic, but that was it for offensive air action today. Such a change was shocking compared to all that had come before. NATO reinforcements and their air attacks was one reason why this was done but not the reason.
That was because Russian and Belorussian ground forces were no longer going forward in-strength.
Slava had a twofold overall objective when launched. Expelling NATO ground forces from the Baltic States, where they threatened Russia but also the Minsk regime, was the first. The second was to establish a ‘security zone’ deep inside Poland and within that trap & destroy further NATO ground forces there in a mobile battle where a classical encirclement would occur. With the war a week old, it had been decreed that the former was fully completed (many days beforehand) and the latter half achieved. Only selected elements of NATO’s ground forces had been eliminated within Poland though grave damage had been done to other parts. It could be said that failure had come here yet this wasn’t something that many would agree with. Reports up the chain of command stated that many of those NATO units which had escaped were destroyed regardless of whether there was the claim that they had gotten away. Several American and Polish large formations were regarded to have been wiped out by the Slava offensive. Furthermore, other units from the armies of both of those countries plus those in the service of Britain, France and Germany were considered to be close to being combat-ineffective as well… optimistic hopes were that perhaps the damage done there had been underestimated and they too have been near wiped-out.
Orders came for the Russian and Belorussian forces to start the process of digging-in in many places as a general rule. The frontlines ran from the Baltic coast to the tri-point where the Belorussian, Polish & Ukrainian frontiers met. It wasn’t straight, it curved all over the place with several salient. What was behind them would be defended as that security zone. ‘Corrections’ were allowed though. There were attempts to do this and this allowed for not just localised attacks to take place today but also withdrawals as well from exposed positions. The frontlines were going to be defined by terrain. This line was to be held. The security zone would remain rammed with heavy forces and there would be extensive defensive works in the form of earthen fortifications and minefields.
The objectives for Slava had been met, the orders came down from the top, and we have won our victory.
Polish troops with their 16th Mechanised Division (at the far northern end of Seventh Army’s lines) faced Russian localised attacks to strengthen their positions while in the areas where the US 4th Infantry & German 10th Panzer were fighting, they witnessed tactical withdrawals. There was fighting elsewhere too, all up and down the line. It wasn’t as if the war had stopped. It was just a matter of Russian and Belorussian forces no longer going forward in any more of their big attacks meeting successes or failures in those. Those in the thick of the fighting weren’t really aware of what was going on. The big picture wasn’t something for them: they were trying to stay alive. This was on both sides of those at war. Generals and thus their political masters started to understand what was going on. NATO realised that the Russians and Belorussians had been stopped.
They considered that they had finally stopped them in their tracks.
A total of four NATO corps commands were under the control of the US Seventh Army, which as 1 ATAF did, reported to CJTF-East. They held mixed components from various armies and were all expecting incoming reinforcements from across two continents. The Allied I Corps – once the Allied Rapid Reaction Corps – was on the left of the frontlines; on the right was the US V Corps. Behind them, the German-Dutch I Corps was being used as both a holding command for beat-up NATO units and also for flank security tasks. There was the newly-arriving US XVIII Airborne Corps which was forming-up further back from where the fighting was. The mixture within each of them when it came to multinational units was quite something and, in the case of the US V Corps in particular but also the German-Dutch I Corps, their names now gave lie to their make-up. There were eight divisions plus combat attachments – all heavy units – on the frontlines of the Seventh Army’s fight within the two corps commands out ahead. The fighting men within came from across the alliance with some in combat since the very start of the war and others being recent arrivals. Thrown into the fight where needed, not in a pretty fashion to see make sense on paper, they’d really had that fight they’d been sent here to take part in. The fight when on all day for them regardless of what decisions had been made with their opponents declaring that they had won and achieved their objectives in contrast to their own superiors believing that it was actually them who had seen success here. NATO forces which had taken major losses were behind them and so too were both untested units and incoming reinforcements: those out ahead were certainly not on their own and also not yet beaten like others had been.
The Russians and Belorussians hadn’t written off any of their own major combat formations like they had done so in intelligence summaries when it came to their opponents. The 5th Guards Tank Division and several Belorussian brigades had taken heavy losses and NATO rated them as partially or completely combat-ineffective though. The Twentieth Guards and First Guards Tank Armies were each deep inside Poland. They’d fought their way this far forward, battering their way past a fierce and capable enemy. Not everything had gone to plan, yes that was true, but what plan had ever survived contact with the enemy? From Moscow – Minsk didn’t really count – there was no rage with threats of executions or purges of military officers. There would be some reassignments to backwaters etc. yet there was general agreement that that Slava had had much success and the war so far had seen knocks taken that, while terrible, weren’t fatal. Reorganisations were made within the Twentieth Guards Army today as the once striking forward advance came to a halt: units were transferred about with men coming down from Estonia reaching the bottom of Lithuania and airborne units moving to the Baltic coast. Few changes took place within the First Guards Tank Army along those lines though they did move about artillery & engineering units all over the place for the new defensive mission. Both armies fired their heavy guns and tactical missiles: Warsaw was still being hit by Belorussian Scuds too with no let-up in that. In their rear, the Belorussian Fifth Corps had been tasked to command occupation & defensive forces in the Baltics with many Russians among them too. Over inside Belarus, the Russian Second Guards Army – Belorussians with Russians, many of the latter having come from the other side of their huge country – was still sitting there. It had not seen action yet and remained waiting for orders.
NATO was still gathering information on what was happening. Enemy actions were still taking place with fighting ongoing. Reports of observations of Russians digging-in came alongside those telling of attacks. Moreover, even when seen, the stopping of the advance wasn’t recognised as that because the Russians were considered to be just shunting forces about in the face of attacks against them so they could re-start attacking tomorrow or the next day: the movement of forces in their rears was the cause of that belief.
Confirmation of what the situation actually was would come from the Kremlin soon enough.
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James G
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Post by James G on Mar 19, 2019 21:10:26 GMT
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crackpot
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Post by crackpot on Mar 19, 2019 23:54:52 GMT
The high water mark. Now to see if NATO can organize an offensive to take that back. No way in hell Poland remains occupied. In rage of hyperbole I can see more hawkish folks comparing Putin to a 21st century Hitler.
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Post by redrobin65 on Mar 20, 2019 0:56:04 GMT
I think that the Russians can probably defend what they have for a while. They still have plenty of other armies they can bring in.
Of course, that is dependent on whether or not they actually get to the front and aren't hit hard from the air.
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James G
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Post by James G on Mar 20, 2019 9:38:20 GMT
The high water mark. Now to see if NATO can organize an offensive to take that back. No way in hell Poland remains occupied. In rage of hyperbole I can see more hawkish folks comparing Putin to a 21st century Hitler. Russia will do everything to try to stop a liberation! I think that the Russians can probably defend what they have for a while. They still have plenty of other armies they can bring in. Of course, that is dependent on whether or not they actually get to the front and aren't hit hard from the air. Forcon will show us later the efforts made by NATO to do just that.
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