Letters of War: A WW1 ISOT

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g) Johan could be raising an important point that could blow up in the Dutch faces if the 'attack' was outside British and German torpedo range. However at the moment he's still thinking that either/both could have a potentially important advantage here.

Lets blame the French, did they have submarines in 1914.

This is my mod color, when its this color, you know

stevep
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Letters of War: A WW1 ISOT Nov 21, 2018 18:19:59 GMT raunchel likes this

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Post by stevep on Nov 21, 2018 18:19:59 GMT

Nov 21, 2018 17:27:53 GMT lordroel said:

[

g) Johan could be raising an important point that could blow up in the Dutch faces if the 'attack' was outside British and German torpedo range. However at the moment he's still thinking that either/both could have a potentially important advantage here.

Lets blame the French, did they have submarines in 1914.

They had subs, as did everybody else but are rather busy at the moment. Which raises a point in that I never considered a 3rd vessel but a sub could have done it and escaped. Made me think since the Dutch didn't think of it either do they not have subs themselves? Or possibly because they saw two ships nearby and opened fire they simply haven't thought of it?

However it does sounds like some sort of accident and an over-reaction might be the cause.

Last Edit: Nov 21, 2018 18:22:47 GMT by stevep

raunchel
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Letters of War: A WW1 ISOT Nov 22, 2018 13:47:26 GMT stevep likes this

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Post by raunchel on Nov 22, 2018 13:47:26 GMT

Nov 21, 2018 16:59:03 GMT stevep said:

Nov 21, 2018 13:52:42 GMT raunchel said:

More will be revealed about the explosive incident. And you are fully right about the reaction if it seems that all this was just a stupid accident. That would hurt far too many careers, and it might even lead to the army getting more funding at the cost of the navy. Which is far worse than just lying about everything. As it is in all cases. They don't get along that well, which is one of the reasons why Jakoba's eldest brother really hurt the family by joining the army.

Concerning Karen. I won't say too much about her possible relations to the German government, but she indeed is fairly close to Jakoba. This Karen is the same woman who would become editor at Frauenliebe; Frauen, Liebe und Leben and Garçonne in the twenties and early thirties. So the nature of their friendship will be relatively obvious.

The connections from the Canaries could be fixed relatively quickly (just about a month of work) because part of the cables remained, and the equipment was in place to relay them. Of course, the far east remains cut off, and the mainland also is in a difficult position because of the threat of war.

I guess that it has to be one. It indeed was rather popular at the time as far as I can find out. And there won't be a Poirot either. So a lot has been lost.

This, basically. And I'm not sure if there will actually be a comic culture in the Netherlands, and it certainly won't be to the extent that you see in Wallonie and France. I know that for many people it's different, but in more religious quarters, comics in general are frowned upon. I for example only got to read Tintin after I moved out. And I still have this voice in the back of my head telling me that it's wrong.

Well if its an accident but the navy decides to cover up, and their not found out then I see they have two options.

a) Saying they can't tell who the 'attacker' was, which leaves everybody distrustful and unhappy.

b) Claiming that X was responsible, which will almost certainly mean war with them. Britain could the the obvious target because of the historical hostility of those Dutch but then a dow on Germany would probably mean fighting alongside France and Russia and quite possibly Britain so that could be a safer path, especially if they get forces in from the overseas republics and colonies.

Also with a) both nations are likely to demand compensation for their dead men and lost cruisers. Especially since they will be angry and proud and aware that if they don't some will see it as a concession of guilt. Similarly the Dutch will want to refuse this, at least for both powers.

Those indeed are the options if it's found to be an accident. Not knowing who it was will be difficult politically, especially after sinking a bunch of ships (and losing one of their own). Such a thing would cause very important heads to roll, even beyond the navy, and would basically start the Dutch presence in the world with a massive humiliation.

Going to war on a fiction however also has its issues. If it gets out (and it will), it will demolish the career of anyone involved in it. Whatever happens, fighting a war like WW1 based on a coverup will not look well in the history books. Because whoever they fight, it will be a bloody mess. Not that they know that of course, but they do know that both the French and the Germans have far more powerful armies. Even if one discounts the parts that are already fighting, the reserves both have are enough to do a lot of damage. The British don't have a land army in a position to attack, but they are well-positioned to hurt Dutch commerce, of which one very important part is food imports (the mainland is heavily urbanised and can't really feed itself anymore).

Of course, it's also important to keep the currents in mind. In the middle of the North Sea, these basically come from way up north past the British coastline, and from the Channel, which at least eliminates Danish mines coming from the Øresund.

Nov 21, 2018 13:53:59 GMT raunchel said:

Berlin, September 4, 1914

Dear Father,

I have received a new cable from Geertje. She says that there have been skirmishes in the Seagull Mountains, and that the navy is preparing an expedition to put the natives, who appear to be Spanish, into their place. Her husband fortunately won’t accompany that, as he has been sent to the Windward Islands to secure them against the Northerners. But in much happier news, she wrote that Sjoerdsje has said her first word! Although it wasn’t entirely clear what it was, she is in disagreement about it with her nurse. I wish that I could visit her together with Mother, but as long as things are like this, I fear that that won’t be possible.

Naturally, I am doing my utmost to help Kirsten find faith in her heart and to help her embrace it. But for such things, it would truly be better to have a minister here. My womanly mind simply isn’t fit for such complexities. She has asked me to accompany her to her church, but without someone to help me understand such matters, I decided to decline.

Since I last wrote you, the invading Russian army has been dealt an enormous defeat. All the papers are full of it and the Germans speak of little else. There are more than a hundred thousand prisoners, if I can believe them. The Russians however appear to have many more, so people think that the war will last longer still. At the same time, the Austrians have suffered defeat in Galicia, but I was told that it was on a much smaller scale while the fighting between the Germans and French continues apace.

An investigative delegation has arrived from our beloved fatherland, but they will operate independently from our embassy and have headed to the major naval bases. I know little about what they are doing now, but I hope that the truth will come out. The English remain obstinate. Sir Edward told Uncle Sytze that some parts of the note could be seen as an insult to British honour, and that they will complete their own investigation. He even said that allowing a foreign power to investigate the Royal Navy and His Majesty’s Government would go far beyond what any nation, let alone one as prominent as their own, could possibly accept.

Later, I was able to mollify him somewhat on some points by expressing my deep sorrow about the loss of life, and of course, I mentioned our intention to make a formal apology to whoever is found to be innocent and that we would pay reparations. He seemed to be more understanding of our difficult situation after our conversation.

Yesterday evening, we attended a small gathering at the Romanian embassy they would be wise to try to remain neutral. Anyways, it was a celebration in honour of the birthday of the ambassador’s wife, a truly friendly lady. This however led to an awkward situation when Uncle Sytze and me found ourself in the presence of the Japanese Chargé d’affaires. I understand that it is a kind of politeness to also invite them, but honestly, I would not want such barbarians at any kind of celebration.

Naturally, we did our utmost to avoid them, and they did the same. I know that it’s a little shameful, but when I went to the bathroom, I found myself alone with the charge d’affaires’ wife, and I fear that some sort of conversation couldn’t be avoided. You know me, I always try to be friendly. I must say, the lady was rather shy, although we did introduce ourselves. I however must confess that I completely forgot her name. What is relevant however is that they are a much prouder people than I had expected, and over the past decades have done significant work to attempt to improve themselves, following the example of whites of course. No yellow could ever be truly inventive.

There has even been a war between them and the Russians, who are considered to be a major European power. And it appears that the Japanese won a major naval victory against them. Naturally, I didn’t mention Karel’s passing, but she told me some things that helped me understand what has happened. The Japanese are quite capable militarily, and I believe that in order to protect our holdings there, significant force will have to be deployed. Colonel van Speyk has also written about it, although he of course says that information was gained from sources near the Japanese embassy.

I hope that this letter finds you well and at peace.

Your faithful daughter,
Jakoba

Battlecruiser Geloof, September 7, 1914

Dearest Jakoba,

It is one of my dearest wishes to see Sjoerdsje, to be able to hold another granddaughter in my arms. Your mother agrees, and would very much like to visit her along with you. Perhaps, when the current situation is resolved, you can make arrangements for such a journey. And don’t be discouraged by your mother’s demeanor, she has travelled half the world on her own.

It’s downright shameful that a minister and further staff for the embassy haven’t been sent yet. I would have expected that more would have been dispatched already. As soon as I’m able, I will ask some old friends about what’s happening.

There have been many confrontations at sea over the last few days, but not to the extent of actual shooting. I’ve been told that all survivors deny having launched a torpedo, which greatly complicated the investigation. It’s a shame that it’s no longer allowed to put further pressure on them. But then again, the true guilty parties will be those placed far above them. But at least some sort of investigation is beginning abroad.

One thing that’s striking me as dangerous is that both ships were beyond the range of our torpedoes when the explosion took place. I’m worried that their weapons may be more potent than we assume, which is something we will have to take in mind. If at all possible, could you perhaps ask some questions about their weaponry?

And please, my child, be careful with a yellow like that. I would take it up with the Romanians; it simply won’t do to have to share any kind of facility with those barbarians. No matter how well they can try to imitate us, they remain beneath your dignity. And to have spoken to one! I urge you, please, don’t debase yourself like that. Any such information can also be gained from other sources.

Your mother also wanted me to write you concerning this Karen. She approves of you building up a friendship, but says that you would be better off associating with women of a higher social class. You don’t want to devalue yourself in the eyes of potential husbands. She also wants me to warn you about those cakes, although I can’t bring myself to disagree with enjoying them.

There is one more matter that I want to bring up. There is a fine young man under my command, commander Albert van Gent. You have met before, and he greatly admired you. But as you were engaged at that time, he respectfully kept his distance. I know that it might be a bit soon, given your recent loss, but it seems that your mother already spoke to him and now he has asked me for my permission to write you. Naturally, I said that I would think on it, and want to ask you if you would want to correspond with this man.

I can vouch for his good manners and background. He has a splendid career ahead of him and if your mother is to be believed, he is handsome too. Although she claims that such things aren’t relevant. He is a good Christian and I believe that you will do well to get to know him better.

Your loving father,
Johan Rots

Raunchel

Well several points come to mind.

a) The level of racism grates to us but probably isn't too different from what many thought at the time. Japan had earned respected by its military victories and economic performance but some countries most notoriously Germany under Wilhelm with his "yellow peril" comments probably felt very similar and we know the US and the British dominions were opposed to accepting Japanese migrants. It does also suggest that while there are republics in S America and S Africa - although the latter could be of white minorities - there's a very low opinion of the populations of the DEI and possibly also Ceylon - or whatever its called here.

b) Jakoba mentioned a Kirsten, should this be Karen?

c) Are the Seagull Mts somewhere in the Canaries or in some point in Africa where there are colonial clashes? Interesting that she classifies the Spanish as natives?

d) IIRC the fighting in Galacia is actually considerably larger than that in E Prussia and the Russians are winning, although not as clearly as the Germans defeated them but this could be that the Germans don't want their allies to look too vulnerable, especially while the Dutch are still an unknown factor.

e) Given both the pride of the RN and Britain and the importance of the Austrian demands on Serbia definitely no way Britain would be happy with a Dutch investigation, although they might be willing for a joint one, but then this might not be popular with the Dutch, or the Germans. There are incidents of international mediation in recent history which could be an answer but given that the Dutch are unknown newcomers and their appearance has put a lot of backs up I'm not sure the Dutch, even if pride didn't stop them, would trust anyone else. Further complicated by a worldwide war already going on.

f) Given that Jakoba seems surprised that Russia is considered a major power that suggests it isn't in her world. I was considering with the comments about the Polish being a proud people difficult to suppress a little while back and the lack of a unified Germany I wonder if Poland is a substantial power there?

g) Johan could be raising an important point that could blow up in the Dutch faces if the 'attack' was outside British and German torpedo range. However at the moment he's still thinking that either/both could have a potentially important advantage here.

h) There's a very strong case of snobbery here, such as about Karen's status and also I think he's definitely not aware of Jakoba tastes.

Just to ask. Given that the S American and S African lands, or at least some of them, are fellow republics rather than just colonies how does the population and industrial strength compare with the European territories. I could see the S American republics easily having a greater total population than the lands in Europe and possibly S Africa is going that way as well.

Anyway, looking very complex and interesting.

Steve

a) The racism indeed is pretty awful, but when I look at writing from the period, it unfortunately seems to have been the norm. And one shouldn't forget that this is essentially the culture that spawned things like Apartheid or the Belgian atrocities in the Congo, which says something about them. the overseas provinces are areas with sufficient white populations really. A lot of what would have gone to North America in our timeline instead went to South America and Africa. These aren't great places to be for people of colour, although there are some people speaking out against this. Mostly leading to mockery of course.

b) That's what you get when you're writing to a Kirsten while writing about a Karen. It's not healthy and I'll edit it.

c) The Seagull Mountains are the Andes, mostly because I wanted another name for them and Chile was often called the land of the seagulls. The Chilean government is far from happy about their southernmost areas being gone, and there also are issues with countries such as Bolivia. In their timeline, those were whiter than in otl, so those who encounter them see them as natives. They after all still have the occasional issues with tribes in the Amazon, although there aren't many left.

d) The Germans and Austrians indeed aren't telling the truth. Jakoba has more German sources than Austrian ones as well, so she just isn't as well-informed.

e) The Dutch have agreed to a partially joint investigation with the Germans, but they're still waiting for the British answer. The Dutch government however remains in a slight state of chaos, so that's a bit of an issue.

f) In their old world, the Polish indeed were a major power, as were the Swedes. So, that basically kept the Russians a lot weaker.

g) Yes, Johan doesn't know everything about the naval technology in this new world, and he's deeply worried about what they might be capable of. There might after all be some highly capable secret weapons around, and everyone wants longer-ranged and/or faster torpedoes. And besides, there were slower settings for torpedoes, where they indeed had a longer range, but would probably never hit anything at all. Although a whole battlefleet of course is another kind of target.

h) He most certainly doesn't know the truth about Karen and Jakoba. Or Jakoba's other affairs for that matter. And yes, there is a lot of snobbery, but even my own parents were like that before they got really desperate about finding me a husband.

The overseas provinces and the colonies have about half of the total white population of the Republic, but many of them don't yet live in areas with the status of a province. The industrial heart remains in the Netherlands, but those territories are also experiencing quite a bit of development. All the provinces have at least some industry, and for instance Kaap de Goede Hoop, Nieuw-Holland, and Windhaven have major shipyards.

Concerning the colonies, there also is some pushing to grant more areas the status of a province due to the size of the white population. Basically, there are two chambers to the Dutch parliament. The foremost one works a bit like the current Eerste Kamer, and consists of delegates chosen by the provinces (with some having more than others, with the ratio being renegotiated all the time). Here, the provincial estates vote for their own delegates to the Estates General. Naturally, this tends to advantage major parties. There also is the other chamber, which is elected by district although there are some people who want to switch to a proportional system. This chamber was created to also give the colonies a voice so there also are districts in for instance Indonesia (although, naturally, only white men over the age of 25 with Dutch citizenship are allowed to vote, and there are certain conditions where the vote can be taken away or someone can gain multiple votes, such as by being married and having at least one child and paying a certain amount of taxes). Some districts are geographically huge because some islands and areas don't have enough population to get a delegate on their own.

Nov 21, 2018 17:27:53 GMT lordroel said:

[

g) Johan could be raising an important point that could blow up in the Dutch faces if the 'attack' was outside British and German torpedo range. However at the moment he's still thinking that either/both could have a potentially important advantage here.

Lets blame the French, did they have submarines in 1914.

Now that's an idea. But they would have to have gotten away very quickly, and not been sighted for quite a while and would have to find a safe and unseen passage back to Cherbourg.

Nov 21, 2018 18:19:59 GMT stevep said:

Nov 21, 2018 17:27:53 GMT lordroel said:

Lets blame the French, did they have submarines in 1914.

They had subs, as did everybody else but are rather busy at the moment. Which raises a point in that I never considered a 3rd vessel but a sub could have done it and escaped. Made me think since the Dutch didn't think of it either do they not have subs themselves? Or possibly because they saw two ships nearby and opened fire they simply haven't thought of it?

However it does sounds like some sort of accident and an over-reaction might be the cause.

The Dutch use subs, but they haven't publicly thought of that option because they sank two ships, and at least one of them has to be guilty. Although it would of course be preferable in a way if both would be guilty of conspiring to launch a torpedo at the Dutch. Or they might even be in collaboration with the submarine.

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Letters of War: A WW1 ISOT Nov 22, 2018 13:48:41 GMT lordroel, stevep, and 3 more like this

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Post by raunchel on Nov 22, 2018 13:48:41 GMT

Berlin, September 10, 1914

Dear Father,

I’m happy that you can forgive me for my small culinary indulgence. I am happy to write you that I’m developing many friendships, mostly with the female relatives of diplomats, but also with other ladies of some significance. I merely mention Karen frequently because we spend much of our time working together.

And thank you for asking me about a correspondence with commander van Gent. I will be more than happy to answer any letters he sends to me and am honoured that he still remembers me. Of course, no one could ever replace Karel in my heart, but I still wish for love in my life.

The German victory over the Russians that I wrote about earlier appears to be truly immense in its scale and a second attack is underway. The Germans remain on the defensive in Alsace, from where word reaches Berlin of a terrible slaughter, especially when counterattacks are launched. The Austrians have also finally made their first inroads into Serbia, which is expected to be forced to sue for terms soon enough.

There is some excellent news. We have finally found a suitable embassy. The Germans have given us the use of a palace that used to belong to the Russian mission. You might not believe it, but I’ve actually been given the use of the apartments that were formerly used by the Russian emperors for my own use! Of course, it will have to be redecorated for our use, but at least it has a prominent location. I however am missing the running hot water, but it’s just a luxury.

Of course, for now, it remains far too large, but some of the former personal of the embassies of countries that existed in our territories are being put to use for minor tasks. They however can’t be trusted with important matters of state. And unbelievable as it might sound, most of the Belgians don’t even speak Dutch!

Because of the recent events at sea, we have also been given an actual armed guard provided by the emperor’s guards. It is quite frightening to be honest, to have armed soldiers standing outside, presenting arms as soon as I go anywhere. There have also been small mobs, and some horrible abuse has been shouted at me. I fear that the public mood is turning against us.

There has also been a meeting between us and the German chancellor and the new Austrian ambassador, although he insists that it’s Austria-Hungary. Anyways, this was a meeting at the chancellery, where another offer was made in order to gain our alliance. Naturally, I helped Uncle Sytze along with the colonel. Our delegation remains too small for me to be able to avoid these meetings.

We had requested one in order to find out more about their aims. I had the feeling that disagreements remain between them, but overall, the aims appears to be the reduction of Serbia’s power, quite large war indemnities from France and Russia, French disarmament by the demolition of certain forts along the frontier, and certain western parts of Russia would gain their independence. Most notably Poland, but with the Baltic coast forming independent states.

As was to be expected, further offers were also made to us. The Germans promised that they would support us gaining land along the French coastline stretching up to Dieppe, a partition of the Briey basin between us and Germany, colonial gains at the cost of the French, part of the French reparations, and a free trade association. Especially that last point would be most interesting because we have lost a lot of our hinterlands in recent events. But of course, the exact situation would have to be considered.

Naturally, we told them that we would consider these points, but said that to us, the decision to wage war would never be based on material considerations. After all, a just war requires a just cause. We however said that we would declare war on whoever we find guilty of attacking our fleet along with anyone who supports them. I have also stated that we can be considered to be in a state of war with the nations of Chile, Bolivia, Guatemala, Honduras, and Japan.

Our aims of course are simple. From Japan, we demand reparations for the damage done to us, along with a new treaty establishing us as the only power they will trade with, as is only natural. From Chile we demand a full recognition of our borders and the cession of some of their southern areas. Bolivia faces a similar ultimatum, whereas The Hague has decided that Honduras and Guatemala are to be fully annexed.

The chancellor and ambassador were shocked by our statement, telling me that that would almost certainly mean further wars for us. When asked for an explanation, the Austian minister said that this North American federation would find any such demands extremely unacceptable. This caused Uncle Sytze to say that if they were to object, we would of course discuss these matters with him. After our meeting, we cabled The Hague, and as there isn’t a Dutch mission yet, we are to find out what these North-Americans want. We have invited their ambassador for dinner, the day after tomorrow.

I have made some enquiries about the torpedoes in use by the German navy, and have been able to get my hands on some of their manuals. It may have been fairly expensive on my part, but I hope that you can forgive me for making such expenses. The papers have naturally been sent home by diplomatic mail.

I have also been able to get my hands on some of the English newspapers, writing about what happened at sea. I was shocked, in one of them, they wrote that we were out to completely crush them, launch an invasion, and that we would even commit mass murders of what they call ‘Good Englishmen’. Their idea is that we did this ourselves, so we can freely attack them as we have already attacked their empire.

This is complete nonsense, as we all know. But it serves as a strong indication that we should be very careful indeed.

Your faithful daughter,
Jakoba

Battlecruiser Geloof, September 14, 1914

Dearest Jakoba,

Thank you very much for the enquiries that you have made. They are most interesting. I’m happy that you have moved into a palace fit for your standards. It however shocks me that the people would be angry with a young woman such as you, I would have expected more attention to go to your uncle and the colonel.

What you sent about the torpedoes appears to confirm what we already knew. Although it seems that they occasionally use slower ones that can move at a greater range. That would also explain why only a singly hit was scored on a destroyer and not on one of the battleships. I know little about the investigation, but the first ships carrying troops from the African provinces have arrived. Some of the older ships escorted them here from the Canaries, and I was positioned to assist should they find themself under attack.

What the English write shouldn’t overly worry you. If it is war that they desire, we will give them war. There have been no further great exercises, although, there soon will be another one to show them that we are serious. Admiral Kuypers will take two of the battle squadrons to sail along the English coast, remaining outside what they define as their own waters, but with the guns aimed at the shore. Over the horizon, the rest of the fleet will remain in wait, ready to move should they answer us. The Hague wants us to make it clear that we will not be intimidated.

I have told commander van Gent that he is free to write you at his leisure, and he was more than delighted. Your mother thinks that he is a good man, and I wouldn’t say that she has such a poor judgment in that regard. But she doubtlessly writes you all about that.

One more joyous thing that has happened is that a new battleship has joined the fleet. The Remonstrantie would have been the most modern and powerful warship in the world with its ten 350 mm guns. At the ceremony, its captain, Jakobus de Groene, allowed them all to fire. A truly wonderful sound.

Otherwise, everything is finding a new state of normalcy here. The people remain angry of course, but they do understand that everything is being done to alleviate their concerns.

Your loving father,
Johan Rots

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Letters of War: A WW1 ISOT Nov 22, 2018 16:11:52 GMT raunchel likes this

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Post by stevep on Nov 22, 2018 16:11:52 GMT

Nov 22, 2018 13:48:41 GMT raunchel said:

Berlin, September 10, 1914

Dear Father,

I’m happy that you can forgive me for my small culinary indulgence. I am happy to write you that I’m developing many friendships, mostly with the female relatives of diplomats, but also with other ladies of some significance. I merely mention Karen frequently because we spend much of our time working together.

And thank you for asking me about a correspondence with commander van Gent. I will be more than happy to answer any letters he sends to me and am honoured that he still remembers me. Of course, no one could ever replace Karel in my heart, but I still wish for love in my life.

The German victory over the Russians that I wrote about earlier appears to be truly immense in its scale and a second attack is underway. The Germans remain on the defensive in Alsace, from where word reaches Berlin of a terrible slaughter, especially when counterattacks are launched. The Austrians have also finally made their first inroads into Serbia, which is expected to be forced to sue for terms soon enough.

There is some excellent news. We have finally found a suitable embassy. The Germans have given us the use of a palace that used to belong to the Russian mission. You might not believe it, but I’ve actually been given the use of the apartments that were formerly used by the Russian emperors for my own use! Of course, it will have to be redecorated for our use, but at least it has a prominent location. I however am missing the running hot water, but it’s just a luxury.

Of course, for now, it remains far too large, but some of the former personal of the embassies of countries that existed in our territories are being put to use for minor tasks. They however can’t be trusted with important matters of state. And unbelievable as it might sound, most of the Belgians don’t even speak Dutch!

Because of the recent events at sea, we have also been given an actual armed guard provided by the emperor’s guards. It is quite frightening to be honest, to have armed soldiers standing outside, presenting arms as soon as I go anywhere. There have also been small mobs, and some horrible abuse has been shouted at me. I fear that the public mood is turning against us.

There has also been a meeting between us and the German chancellor and the new Austrian ambassador, although he insists that it’s Austria-Hungary. Anyways, this was a meeting at the chancellery, where another offer was made in order to gain our alliance. Naturally, I helped Uncle Sytze along with the colonel. Our delegation remains too small for me to be able to avoid these meetings.

We had requested one in order to find out more about their aims. I had the feeling that disagreements remain between them, but overall, the aims appears to be the reduction of Serbia’s power, quite large war indemnities from France and Russia, French disarmament by the demolition of certain forts along the frontier, and certain western parts of Russia would gain their independence. Most notably Poland, but with the Baltic coast forming independent states.

As was to be expected, further offers were also made to us. The Germans promised that they would support us gaining land along the French coastline stretching up to Dieppe, a partition of the Briey basin between us and Germany, colonial gains at the cost of the French, part of the French reparations, and a free trade association. Especially that last point would be most interesting because we have lost a lot of our hinterlands in recent events. But of course, the exact situation would have to be considered.

Naturally, we told them that we would consider these points, but said that to us, the decision to wage war would never be based on material considerations. After all, a just war requires a just cause. We however said that we would declare war on whoever we find guilty of attacking our fleet along with anyone who supports them. I have also stated that we can be considered to be in a state of war with the nations of Chile, Bolivia, Guatemala, Honduras, and Japan.

Our aims of course are simple. From Japan, we demand reparations for the damage done to us, along with a new treaty establishing us as the only power they will trade with, as is only natural. From Chile we demand a full recognition of our borders and the cession of some of their southern areas. Bolivia faces a similar ultimatum, whereas The Hague has decided that Honduras and Guatemala are to be fully annexed.

The chancellor and ambassador were shocked by our statement, telling me that that would almost certainly mean further wars for us. When asked for an explanation, the Austian minister said that this North American federation would find any such demands extremely unacceptable. This caused Uncle Sytze to say that if they were to object, we would of course discuss these matters with him. After our meeting, we cabled The Hague, and as there isn’t a Dutch mission yet, we are to find out what these North-Americans want. We have invited their ambassador for dinner, the day after tomorrow.

I have made some enquiries about the torpedoes in use by the German navy, and have been able to get my hands on some of their manuals. It may have been fairly expensive on my part, but I hope that you can forgive me for making such expenses. The papers have naturally been sent home by diplomatic mail.

I have also been able to get my hands on some of the English newspapers, writing about what happened at sea. I was shocked, in one of them, they wrote that we were out to completely crush them, launch an invasion, and that we would even commit mass murders of what they call ‘Good Englishmen’. Their idea is that we did this ourselves, so we can freely attack them as we have already attacked their empire.

This is complete nonsense, as we all know. But it serves as a strong indication that we should be very careful indeed.

Your faithful daughter,
Jakoba

Battlecruiser Geloof, September 14, 1914

Dearest Jakoba,

Thank you very much for the enquiries that you have made. They are most interesting. I’m happy that you have moved into a palace fit for your standards. It however shocks me that the people would be angry with a young woman such as you, I would have expected more attention to go to your uncle and the colonel.

What you sent about the torpedoes appears to confirm what we already knew. Although it seems that they occasionally use slower ones that can move at a greater range. That would also explain why only a singly hit was scored on a destroyer and not on one of the battleships. I know little about the investigation, but the first ships carrying troops from the African provinces have arrived. Some of the older ships escorted them here from the Canaries, and I was positioned to assist should they find themself under attack.

What the English write shouldn’t overly worry you. If it is war that they desire, we will give them war. There have been no further great exercises, although, there soon will be another one to show them that we are serious. Admiral Kuypers will take two of the battle squadrons to sail along the English coast, remaining outside what they define as their own waters, but with the guns aimed at the shore. Over the horizon, the rest of the fleet will remain in wait, ready to move should they answer us. The Hague wants us to make it clear that we will not be intimidated.

I have told commander van Gent that he is free to write you at his leisure, and he was more than delighted. Your mother thinks that he is a good man, and I wouldn’t say that she has such a poor judgment in that regard. But she doubtlessly writes you all about that.

One more joyous thing that has happened is that a new battleship has joined the fleet. The Remonstrantie would have been the most modern and powerful warship in the world with its ten 350 mm guns. At the ceremony, its captain, Jakobus de Groene, allowed them all to fire. A truly wonderful sound.

Otherwise, everything is finding a new state of normalcy here. The people remain angry of course, but they do understand that everything is being done to alleviate their concerns.

Your loving father,
Johan Rots

Well that sounds like we could end up with a triple alliance of Britain, Japan and the US against the Netherlands! Japan won't accept such demands, especially since I suspect the Dutch also expect to kept the section of Japan they hold, as well as Taiwan. Given the current tension, the attack on and sinking of a British cruiser and the distinctly hostile nature of a lot of Dutch commentary a large naval force sailing along the British coast with guns aimed at the country is very explosive. If Britain hears about it before it happens I can see an ultimatum ordering them to stay a certain distance away from British shores. If they don't until the ships have sailed there's great potential for a much larger clash. For the US the talk of seizing further land and annexing a couple of central American states is going to be incendiary and Wilson will be under a lot of pressure to act while a certain former President will be making a lot of noise and being listened to by many.

I also suspect the fairly open contempt being displayed toward the former Belgium people especially could make them very vulnerable to being 'hired' by external sources to supply information. Germany is of course in the best position for this but Britain and others might well be tempted as well to find out more about the newcomers.

Feel distinctly sorry for poor van Gent. Realise why Jakoba is lying but its going to be frustrating for him.

With the Remonstrantie 10x350mm would that be five twins - like British ships at the time - two twins and two triples, like some of the US standards? A lot also depends on the armoured protection and speed and a lot of other factors but sounds like a powerful ship.

Which made me think of a point. OTL Britain took over 4 BBs under construction for Chile and Turkey when they entered the war. They haven't joined the current conflict yet but I can see them doing likewise here with the sudden arrival of a large and distinctly unfriendly Dutch state on their doorstep. Which will upset both powers but Chile at least Britain offered generous compensation. Another factor here is that Chile was the primary source of natural nitrates at this point in time and while the development of the Faber process gave a synthetic alternative this was only really being applied in Germany at this point so a Dutch threat to this trade will be important to a lot of nations. I also wonder what sources the Dutch use for nitrates? Ditto I think Britain might go for the additional 3 R's and an updated Queen Elizabeth that were planned at this stage but cancelled because of the war with Germany. Basically I can see another naval race starting as I doubt either nation will be willing to accept 2nd place to the other.

Also while OTL the British fleet moved to Scapa at the start of the war, since that blocked any German attempts to raid via the north sea into the Atlantic and enabled a distant blockade, given two powerful now potentially hostile fleets with one literally on the channel entrance it might be its pulled back down to south coast ports.

Steve

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Letters of War: A WW1 ISOT Nov 22, 2018 16:23:00 GMT raunchel likes this

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Post by lordroel on Nov 22, 2018 16:23:00 GMT

Nov 22, 2018 13:48:41 GMT raunchel said:

Berlin, September 10, 1914

Dear Father,

I’m happy that you can forgive me for my small culinary indulgence. I am happy to write you that I’m developing many friendships, mostly with the female relatives of diplomats, but also with other ladies of some significance. I merely mention Karen frequently because we spend much of our time working together.

And thank you for asking me about a correspondence with commander van Gent. I will be more than happy to answer any letters he sends to me and am honoured that he still remembers me. Of course, no one could ever replace Karel in my heart, but I still wish for love in my life.

The German victory over the Russians that I wrote about earlier appears to be truly immense in its scale and a second attack is underway. The Germans remain on the defensive in Alsace, from where word reaches Berlin of a terrible slaughter, especially when counterattacks are launched. The Austrians have also finally made their first inroads into Serbia, which is expected to be forced to sue for terms soon enough.

There is some excellent news. We have finally found a suitable embassy. The Germans have given us the use of a palace that used to belong to the Russian mission. You might not believe it, but I’ve actually been given the use of the apartments that were formerly used by the Russian emperors for my own use! Of course, it will have to be redecorated for our use, but at least it has a prominent location. I however am missing the running hot water, but it’s just a luxury.

Of course, for now, it remains far too large, but some of the former personal of the embassies of countries that existed in our territories are being put to use for minor tasks. They however can’t be trusted with important matters of state. And unbelievable as it might sound, most of the Belgians don’t even speak Dutch!

Because of the recent events at sea, we have also been given an actual armed guard provided by the emperor’s guards. It is quite frightening to be honest, to have armed soldiers standing outside, presenting arms as soon as I go anywhere. There have also been small mobs, and some horrible abuse has been shouted at me. I fear that the public mood is turning against us.

There has also been a meeting between us and the German chancellor and the new Austrian ambassador, although he insists that it’s Austria-Hungary. Anyways, this was a meeting at the chancellery, where another offer was made in order to gain our alliance. Naturally, I helped Uncle Sytze along with the colonel. Our delegation remains too small for me to be able to avoid these meetings.

We had requested one in order to find out more about their aims. I had the feeling that disagreements remain between them, but overall, the aims appears to be the reduction of Serbia’s power, quite large war indemnities from France and Russia, French disarmament by the demolition of certain forts along the frontier, and certain western parts of Russia would gain their independence. Most notably Poland, but with the Baltic coast forming independent states.

As was to be expected, further offers were also made to us. The Germans promised that they would support us gaining land along the French coastline stretching up to Dieppe, a partition of the Briey basin between us and Germany, colonial gains at the cost of the French, part of the French reparations, and a free trade association. Especially that last point would be most interesting because we have lost a lot of our hinterlands in recent events. But of course, the exact situation would have to be considered.

Naturally, we told them that we would consider these points, but said that to us, the decision to wage war would never be based on material considerations. After all, a just war requires a just cause. We however said that we would declare war on whoever we find guilty of attacking our fleet along with anyone who supports them. I have also stated that we can be considered to be in a state of war with the nations of Chile, Bolivia, Guatemala, Honduras, and Japan.

Our aims of course are simple. From Japan, we demand reparations for the damage done to us, along with a new treaty establishing us as the only power they will trade with, as is only natural. From Chile we demand a full recognition of our borders and the cession of some of their southern areas. Bolivia faces a similar ultimatum, whereas The Hague has decided that Honduras and Guatemala are to be fully annexed.

The chancellor and ambassador were shocked by our statement, telling me that that would almost certainly mean further wars for us. When asked for an explanation, the Austian minister said that this North American federation would find any such demands extremely unacceptable. This caused Uncle Sytze to say that if they were to object, we would of course discuss these matters with him. After our meeting, we cabled The Hague, and as there isn’t a Dutch mission yet, we are to find out what these North-Americans want. We have invited their ambassador for dinner, the day after tomorrow.

I have made some enquiries about the torpedoes in use by the German navy, and have been able to get my hands on some of their manuals. It may have been fairly expensive on my part, but I hope that you can forgive me for making such expenses. The papers have naturally been sent home by diplomatic mail.

I have also been able to get my hands on some of the English newspapers, writing about what happened at sea. I was shocked, in one of them, they wrote that we were out to completely crush them, launch an invasion, and that we would even commit mass murders of what they call ‘Good Englishmen’. Their idea is that we did this ourselves, so we can freely attack them as we have already attacked their empire.

This is complete nonsense, as we all know. But it serves as a strong indication that we should be very careful indeed.

Your faithful daughter,
Jakoba

Battlecruiser Geloof, September 14, 1914

Dearest Jakoba,

Thank you very much for the enquiries that you have made. They are most interesting. I’m happy that you have moved into a palace fit for your standards. It however shocks me that the people would be angry with a young woman such as you, I would have expected more attention to go to your uncle and the colonel.

What you sent about the torpedoes appears to confirm what we already knew. Although it seems that they occasionally use slower ones that can move at a greater range. That would also explain why only a singly hit was scored on a destroyer and not on one of the battleships. I know little about the investigation, but the first ships carrying troops from the African provinces have arrived. Some of the older ships escorted them here from the Canaries, and I was positioned to assist should they find themself under attack.

What the English write shouldn’t overly worry you. If it is war that they desire, we will give them war. There have been no further great exercises, although, there soon will be another one to show them that we are serious. Admiral Kuypers will take two of the battle squadrons to sail along the English coast, remaining outside what they define as their own waters, but with the guns aimed at the shore. Over the horizon, the rest of the fleet will remain in wait, ready to move should they answer us. The Hague wants us to make it clear that we will not be intimidated.

I have told commander van Gent that he is free to write you at his leisure, and he was more than delighted. Your mother thinks that he is a good man, and I wouldn’t say that she has such a poor judgment in that regard. But she doubtlessly writes you all about that.

One more joyous thing that has happened is that a new battleship has joined the fleet. The Remonstrantie would have been the most modern and powerful warship in the world with its ten 350 mm guns. At the ceremony, its captain, Jakobus de Groene, allowed them all to fire. A truly wonderful sound.

Otherwise, everything is finding a new state of normalcy here. The people remain angry of course, but they do understand that everything is being done to alleviate their concerns.

Your loving father,
Johan Rots

Well that sounds like we could end up with a triple alliance of Britain, Japan and the US against the Netherlands! Japan won't accept such demands, especially since I suspect the Dutch also expect to kept the section of Japan they hold, as well as Taiwan. Given the current tension, the attack on and sinking of a British cruiser and the distinctly hostile nature of a lot of Dutch commentary a large naval force sailing along the British coast with guns aimed at the country is very explosive. If Britain hears about it before it happens I can see an ultimatum ordering them to stay a certain distance away from British shores. If they don't until the ships have sailed there's great potential for a much larger clash. For the US the talk of seizing further land and annexing a couple of central American states is going to be incendiary and Wilson will be under a lot of pressure to act while a certain former President will be making a lot of noise and being listened to by many.

I also suspect the fairly open contempt being displayed toward the former Belgium people especially could make them very vulnerable to being 'hired' by external sources to supply information. Germany is of course in the best position for this but Britain and others might well be tempted as well to find out more about the newcomers.

Feel distinctly sorry for poor van Gent. Realise why Jakoba is lying but its going to be frustrating for him.

With the Remonstrantie 10x350mm would that be five twins - like British ships at the time - two twins and two triples, like some of the US standards? A lot also depends on the armoured protection and speed and a lot of other factors but sounds like a powerful ship.

Which made me think of a point. OTL Britain took over 4 BBs under construction for Chile and Turkey when they entered the war. They haven't joined the current conflict yet but I can see them doing likewise here with the sudden arrival of a large and distinctly unfriendly Dutch state on their doorstep. Which will upset both powers but Chile at least Britain offered generous compensation. Another factor here is that Chile was the primary source of natural nitrates at this point in time and while the development of the Faber process gave a synthetic alternative this was only really being applied in Germany at this point so a Dutch threat to this trade will be important to a lot of nations. I also wonder what sources the Dutch use for nitrates? Ditto I think Britain might go for the additional 3 R's and an updated Queen Elizabeth that were planned at this stage but cancelled because of the war with Germany. Basically I can see another naval race starting as I doubt either nation will be willing to accept 2nd place to the other.

Also while OTL the British fleet moved to Scapa at the start of the war, since that blocked any German attempts to raid via the north sea into the Atlantic and enabled a distant blockade, given two powerful now potentially hostile fleets with one literally on the channel entrance it might be its pulled back down to south coast ports.

Steve

First another nice update raunchel.

Second, why do we assume the United States will join, its only 1914, also you forgot Italy, unless they join Germany.

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Letters of War: A WW1 ISOT Nov 22, 2018 18:04:54 GMT raunchel likes this

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Post by stevep on Nov 22, 2018 18:04:54 GMT

Well that sounds like we could end up with a triple alliance of Britain, Japan and the US against the Netherlands! Japan won't accept such demands, especially since I suspect the Dutch also expect to kept the section of Japan they hold, as well as Taiwan. Given the current tension, the attack on and sinking of a British cruiser and the distinctly hostile nature of a lot of Dutch commentary a large naval force sailing along the British coast with guns aimed at the country is very explosive. If Britain hears about it before it happens I can see an ultimatum ordering them to stay a certain distance away from British shores. If they don't until the ships have sailed there's great potential for a much larger clash. For the US the talk of seizing further land and annexing a couple of central American states is going to be incendiary and Wilson will be under a lot of pressure to act while a certain former President will be making a lot of noise and being listened to by many.

I also suspect the fairly open contempt being displayed toward the former Belgium people especially could make them very vulnerable to being 'hired' by external sources to supply information. Germany is of course in the best position for this but Britain and others might well be tempted as well to find out more about the newcomers.

Feel distinctly sorry for poor van Gent. Realise why Jakoba is lying but its going to be frustrating for him.

With the Remonstrantie 10x350mm would that be five twins - like British ships at the time - two twins and two triples, like some of the US standards? A lot also depends on the armoured protection and speed and a lot of other factors but sounds like a powerful ship.

Which made me think of a point. OTL Britain took over 4 BBs under construction for Chile and Turkey when they entered the war. They haven't joined the current conflict yet but I can see them doing likewise here with the sudden arrival of a large and distinctly unfriendly Dutch state on their doorstep. Which will upset both powers but Chile at least Britain offered generous compensation. Another factor here is that Chile was the primary source of natural nitrates at this point in time and while the development of the Faber process gave a synthetic alternative this was only really being applied in Germany at this point so a Dutch threat to this trade will be important to a lot of nations. I also wonder what sources the Dutch use for nitrates? Ditto I think Britain might go for the additional 3 R's and an updated Queen Elizabeth that were planned at this stage but cancelled because of the war with Germany. Basically I can see another naval race starting as I doubt either nation will be willing to accept 2nd place to the other.

Also while OTL the British fleet moved to Scapa at the start of the war, since that blocked any German attempts to raid via the north sea into the Atlantic and enabled a distant blockade, given two powerful now potentially hostile fleets with one literally on the channel entrance it might be its pulled back down to south coast ports.

Steve

First another nice update raunchel .

Second, why do we assume the United States will join, its only 1914, also you forgot Italy, unless they join Germany.

The Monroe_Doctrine, as at this stage they actually have the power to seek to apply it, plus the sudden presence of a great power 'occupying' as they will see it most of S America and engaged in violent expansion against some of the smaller states in the region. 'Their bullying central American countries. They can't do that, that's our job!'

Also given they have control of the entire Lesser Antilles, plus Puerto Rico which was a US territory and a chunk of central America this threatens both US commerce in the region and the recently completed Panama canal. Doubly so given their control of the Cape Horn route as that would make it pretty much impossible for their Pacific and Atlantic fleets to support each other. Not to mention the loss of a good chunk of the Philippines.

I hadn't actually noticed they had Puerto Rico before which would be enough of a flash-point but the fact their a 'European' power that suddenly controls most of Latin America and is fight to take over other areas and red rag and bull come to mind. Ironically Raunchel has come up with a scenario which is highly unusual for this period as it could lead to a US-Japanese alliance, or at least co-beilligency against this Dutch empire even if they don't end up fighting Britain. The US was in a rather belligerent mood at this restrained by its own isolation but the Dutch are now intruding into their own back yard in spades here.

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Letters of War: A WW1 ISOT Nov 23, 2018 10:40:53 GMT raunchel likes this

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Post by lordroel on Nov 23, 2018 10:40:53 GMT

First another nice update raunchel .

Second, why do we assume the United States will join, its only 1914, also you forgot Italy, unless they join Germany.

The Monroe_Doctrine, as at this stage they actually have the power to seek to apply it, plus the sudden presence of a great power 'occupying' as they will see it most of S America and engaged in violent expansion against some of the smaller states in the region. 'Their bullying central American countries. They can't do that, that's our job!'

Also given they have control of the entire Lesser Antilles, plus Puerto Rico which was a US territory and a chunk of central America this threatens both US commerce in the region and the recently completed Panama canal. Doubly so given their control of the Cape Horn route as that would make it pretty much impossible for their Pacific and Atlantic fleets to support each other. Not to mention the loss of a good chunk of the Philippines.

I hadn't actually noticed they had Puerto Rico before which would be enough of a flash-point but the fact their a 'European' power that suddenly controls most of Latin America and is fight to take over other areas and red rag and bull come to mind. Ironically Raunchel has come up with a scenario which is highly unusual for this period as it could lead to a US-Japanese alliance, or at least co-beilligency against this Dutch empire even if they don't end up fighting Britain. The US was in a rather belligerent mood at this restrained by its own isolation but the Dutch are now intruding into their own back yard in spades here.

Never toughed of that stevep, so the United States might join the British, Japanese, Russians and French while this will force the Netherlands to join Germany and Austria-Hungary, unless the Netherlands does not join them due them thinking they are strong enough to fight this war alone.

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Letters of War: A WW1 ISOT Nov 23, 2018 11:24:18 GMT raunchel likes this

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Post by stevep on Nov 23, 2018 11:24:18 GMT

The Monroe_Doctrine, as at this stage they actually have the power to seek to apply it, plus the sudden presence of a great power 'occupying' as they will see it most of S America and engaged in violent expansion against some of the smaller states in the region. 'Their bullying central American countries. They can't do that, that's our job!'

Also given they have control of the entire Lesser Antilles, plus Puerto Rico which was a US territory and a chunk of central America this threatens both US commerce in the region and the recently completed Panama canal. Doubly so given their control of the Cape Horn route as that would make it pretty much impossible for their Pacific and Atlantic fleets to support each other. Not to mention the loss of a good chunk of the Philippines.

I hadn't actually noticed they had Puerto Rico before which would be enough of a flash-point but the fact their a 'European' power that suddenly controls most of Latin America and is fight to take over other areas and red rag and bull come to mind. Ironically Raunchel has come up with a scenario which is highly unusual for this period as it could lead to a US-Japanese alliance, or at least co-beilligency against this Dutch empire even if they don't end up fighting Britain. The US was in a rather belligerent mood at this restrained by its own isolation but the Dutch are now intruding into their own back yard in spades here.

Never toughed of that stevep , so the United States might join the British, Japanese, Russians and French while this will force the Netherlands to join Germany and Austria-Hungary, unless the Netherlands does not join them due them thinking they are strong enough to fight this war alone.

It could end up as one big conflict or two separate ones. Provided that Germany wasn't as stupid as OTL - see Zimmermann Telegram and USW [Unrestricted Submarine Warfare] and it has less incentive at this stage, you could have two parallel wars. The US and to a lesser extend Japan has less interest in war with the CP, especially since this Dutch empire has a lot of the OTL German islands so they could go for them fighting the Dutch rather than the Germans, Although they might also support Britain as an ally and to allow them to take the German concession in N China. The US would be interesting in fighting the Dutch especially given the stated aims of the latter but wouldn't be that interested in the war on the continent of Europe, seeing it as separate and unrelated to them.

I still hope war can be avoided but at the least there's an ongoing Dutch-Japanese conflict, a very high chance of a US-Dutch one and a good chance of the UK and the Netherlands ending up at war. If all three occurred Britain and Japan would fight as allies. The US might classify herself as an associated power as she did in WWI so with more limited interaction with the other two. If this did happen then a number of other powers including Spain and several in Latin America could well come in against the Dutch as well.

Overall Raunchel could have set the Netherlands up for a hell of a kicking unless it can come to terms with at least some of its new neighbours. Even the Japanese, who are a lot weaker at this stage, are likely to do reasonably well as while there's tension with the UK and US and that little border war between France and Germany

meaning their land borders are threatened how much could the Dutch send to the Pacific and what sort of bases do they have to support such forces?

One other thought that came to mind. If there were two separate wars then could France decide to join the war against the Dutch, both to 'regain' Calais and with the hope of dragging Britain at least into the war against Germany. [This could backfire badly however as their unlikely to get support from the US or Japan and Britain would probably be angry, while it exposes their NE including their primary industrial centre around Lille to a Dutch-German onslaught so I think they would be foolish to do this but as WWI showed stupidity wasn't a quantity in short supply.

]

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Letters of War: A WW1 ISOT Nov 23, 2018 11:58:06 GMT raunchel likes this

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Post by lordroel on Nov 23, 2018 11:58:06 GMT

Nov 23, 2018 11:24:18 GMT stevep said:

Never toughed of that stevep , so the United States might join the British, Japanese, Russians and French while this will force the Netherlands to join Germany and Austria-Hungary, unless the Netherlands does not join them due them thinking they are strong enough to fight this war alone.

It could end up as one big conflict or two separate ones. Provided that Germany wasn't as stupid as OTL - see Zimmermann Telegram and USW [Unrestricted Submarine Warfare] and it has less incentive at this stage, you could have two parallel wars. The US and to a lesser extend Japan has less interest in war with the CP, especially since this Dutch empire has a lot of the OTL German islands so they could go for them fighting the Dutch rather than the Germans, Although they might also support Britain as an ally and to allow them to take the German concession in N China. The US would be interesting in fighting the Dutch especially given the stated aims of the latter but wouldn't be that interested in the war on the continent of Europe, seeing it as separate and unrelated to them.

I still hope war can be avoided but at the least there's an ongoing Dutch-Japanese conflict, a very high chance of a US-Dutch one and a good chance of the UK and the Netherlands ending up at war. If all three occurred Britain and Japan would fight as allies. The US might classify herself as an associated power as she did in WWI so with more limited interaction with the other two. If this did happen then a number of other powers including Spain and several in Latin America could well come in against the Dutch as well.

Overall Raunchel could have set the Netherlands up for a hell of a kicking unless it can come to terms with at least some of its new neighbours. Even the Japanese, who are a lot weaker at this stage, are likely to do reasonably well as while there's tension with the UK and US and that little border war between France and Germany

meaning their land borders are threatened how much could the Dutch send to the Pacific and what sort of bases do they have to support such forces?

One other thought that came to mind. If there were two separate wars then could France decide to join the war against the Dutch, both to 'regain' Calais and with the hope of dragging Britain at least into the war against Germany. [This could backfire badly however as their unlikely to get support from the US or Japan and Britain would probably be angry, while it exposes their NE including their primary industrial centre around Lille to a Dutch-German onslaught so I think they would be foolish to do this but as WWI showed stupidity wasn't a quantity in short supply.

]

So we can classify the Dutch-Japanese conflict as a war then.

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Letters of War: A WW1 ISOT Nov 23, 2018 13:38:19 GMT stevep likes this

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Post by raunchel on Nov 23, 2018 13:38:19 GMT

Nov 22, 2018 13:48:41 GMT raunchel said:

Berlin, September 10, 1914

Dear Father,

I’m happy that you can forgive me for my small culinary indulgence. I am happy to write you that I’m developing many friendships, mostly with the female relatives of diplomats, but also with other ladies of some significance. I merely mention Karen frequently because we spend much of our time working together.

And thank you for asking me about a correspondence with commander van Gent. I will be more than happy to answer any letters he sends to me and am honoured that he still remembers me. Of course, no one could ever replace Karel in my heart, but I still wish for love in my life.

The German victory over the Russians that I wrote about earlier appears to be truly immense in its scale and a second attack is underway. The Germans remain on the defensive in Alsace, from where word reaches Berlin of a terrible slaughter, especially when counterattacks are launched. The Austrians have also finally made their first inroads into Serbia, which is expected to be forced to sue for terms soon enough.

There is some excellent news. We have finally found a suitable embassy. The Germans have given us the use of a palace that used to belong to the Russian mission. You might not believe it, but I’ve actually been given the use of the apartments that were formerly used by the Russian emperors for my own use! Of course, it will have to be redecorated for our use, but at least it has a prominent location. I however am missing the running hot water, but it’s just a luxury.

Of course, for now, it remains far too large, but some of the former personal of the embassies of countries that existed in our territories are being put to use for minor tasks. They however can’t be trusted with important matters of state. And unbelievable as it might sound, most of the Belgians don’t even speak Dutch!

Because of the recent events at sea, we have also been given an actual armed guard provided by the emperor’s guards. It is quite frightening to be honest, to have armed soldiers standing outside, presenting arms as soon as I go anywhere. There have also been small mobs, and some horrible abuse has been shouted at me. I fear that the public mood is turning against us.

There has also been a meeting between us and the German chancellor and the new Austrian ambassador, although he insists that it’s Austria-Hungary. Anyways, this was a meeting at the chancellery, where another offer was made in order to gain our alliance. Naturally, I helped Uncle Sytze along with the colonel. Our delegation remains too small for me to be able to avoid these meetings.

We had requested one in order to find out more about their aims. I had the feeling that disagreements remain between them, but overall, the aims appears to be the reduction of Serbia’s power, quite large war indemnities from France and Russia, French disarmament by the demolition of certain forts along the frontier, and certain western parts of Russia would gain their independence. Most notably Poland, but with the Baltic coast forming independent states.

As was to be expected, further offers were also made to us. The Germans promised that they would support us gaining land along the French coastline stretching up to Dieppe, a partition of the Briey basin between us and Germany, colonial gains at the cost of the French, part of the French reparations, and a free trade association. Especially that last point would be most interesting because we have lost a lot of our hinterlands in recent events. But of course, the exact situation would have to be considered.

Naturally, we told them that we would consider these points, but said that to us, the decision to wage war would never be based on material considerations. After all, a just war requires a just cause. We however said that we would declare war on whoever we find guilty of attacking our fleet along with anyone who supports them. I have also stated that we can be considered to be in a state of war with the nations of Chile, Bolivia, Guatemala, Honduras, and Japan.

Our aims of course are simple. From Japan, we demand reparations for the damage done to us, along with a new treaty establishing us as the only power they will trade with, as is only natural. From Chile we demand a full recognition of our borders and the cession of some of their southern areas. Bolivia faces a similar ultimatum, whereas The Hague has decided that Honduras and Guatemala are to be fully annexed.

The chancellor and ambassador were shocked by our statement, telling me that that would almost certainly mean further wars for us. When asked for an explanation, the Austian minister said that this North American federation would find any such demands extremely unacceptable. This caused Uncle Sytze to say that if they were to object, we would of course discuss these matters with him. After our meeting, we cabled The Hague, and as there isn’t a Dutch mission yet, we are to find out what these North-Americans want. We have invited their ambassador for dinner, the day after tomorrow.

I have made some enquiries about the torpedoes in use by the German navy, and have been able to get my hands on some of their manuals. It may have been fairly expensive on my part, but I hope that you can forgive me for making such expenses. The papers have naturally been sent home by diplomatic mail.

I have also been able to get my hands on some of the English newspapers, writing about what happened at sea. I was shocked, in one of them, they wrote that we were out to completely crush them, launch an invasion, and that we would even commit mass murders of what they call ‘Good Englishmen’. Their idea is that we did this ourselves, so we can freely attack them as we have already attacked their empire.

This is complete nonsense, as we all know. But it serves as a strong indication that we should be very careful indeed.

Your faithful daughter,
Jakoba

Battlecruiser Geloof, September 14, 1914

Dearest Jakoba,

Thank you very much for the enquiries that you have made. They are most interesting. I’m happy that you have moved into a palace fit for your standards. It however shocks me that the people would be angry with a young woman such as you, I would have expected more attention to go to your uncle and the colonel.

What you sent about the torpedoes appears to confirm what we already knew. Although it seems that they occasionally use slower ones that can move at a greater range. That would also explain why only a singly hit was scored on a destroyer and not on one of the battleships. I know little about the investigation, but the first ships carrying troops from the African provinces have arrived. Some of the older ships escorted them here from the Canaries, and I was positioned to assist should they find themself under attack.

What the English write shouldn’t overly worry you. If it is war that they desire, we will give them war. There have been no further great exercises, although, there soon will be another one to show them that we are serious. Admiral Kuypers will take two of the battle squadrons to sail along the English coast, remaining outside what they define as their own waters, but with the guns aimed at the shore. Over the horizon, the rest of the fleet will remain in wait, ready to move should they answer us. The Hague wants us to make it clear that we will not be intimidated.

I have told commander van Gent that he is free to write you at his leisure, and he was more than delighted. Your mother thinks that he is a good man, and I wouldn’t say that she has such a poor judgment in that regard. But she doubtlessly writes you all about that.

One more joyous thing that has happened is that a new battleship has joined the fleet. The Remonstrantie would have been the most modern and powerful warship in the world with its ten 350 mm guns. At the ceremony, its captain, Jakobus de Groene, allowed them all to fire. A truly wonderful sound.

Otherwise, everything is finding a new state of normalcy here. The people remain angry of course, but they do understand that everything is being done to alleviate their concerns.

Your loving father,
Johan Rots

Well that sounds like we could end up with a triple alliance of Britain, Japan and the US against the Netherlands! Japan won't accept such demands, especially since I suspect the Dutch also expect to kept the section of Japan they hold, as well as Taiwan. Given the current tension, the attack on and sinking of a British cruiser and the distinctly hostile nature of a lot of Dutch commentary a large naval force sailing along the British coast with guns aimed at the country is very explosive. If Britain hears about it before it happens I can see an ultimatum ordering them to stay a certain distance away from British shores. If they don't until the ships have sailed there's great potential for a much larger clash. For the US the talk of seizing further land and annexing a couple of central American states is going to be incendiary and Wilson will be under a lot of pressure to act while a certain former President will be making a lot of noise and being listened to by many.

I also suspect the fairly open contempt being displayed toward the former Belgium people especially could make them very vulnerable to being 'hired' by external sources to supply information. Germany is of course in the best position for this but Britain and others might well be tempted as well to find out more about the newcomers.

Feel distinctly sorry for poor van Gent. Realise why Jakoba is lying but its going to be frustrating for him.

With the Remonstrantie 10x350mm would that be five twins - like British ships at the time - two twins and two triples, like some of the US standards? A lot also depends on the armoured protection and speed and a lot of other factors but sounds like a powerful ship.

Which made me think of a point. OTL Britain took over 4 BBs under construction for Chile and Turkey when they entered the war. They haven't joined the current conflict yet but I can see them doing likewise here with the sudden arrival of a large and distinctly unfriendly Dutch state on their doorstep. Which will upset both powers but Chile at least Britain offered generous compensation. Another factor here is that Chile was the primary source of natural nitrates at this point in time and while the development of the Faber process gave a synthetic alternative this was only really being applied in Germany at this point so a Dutch threat to this trade will be important to a lot of nations. I also wonder what sources the Dutch use for nitrates? Ditto I think Britain might go for the additional 3 R's and an updated Queen Elizabeth that were planned at this stage but cancelled because of the war with Germany. Basically I can see another naval race starting as I doubt either nation will be willing to accept 2nd place to the other.

Also while OTL the British fleet moved to Scapa at the start of the war, since that blocked any German attempts to raid via the north sea into the Atlantic and enabled a distant blockade, given two powerful now potentially hostile fleets with one literally on the channel entrance it might be its pulled back down to south coast ports.

Steve

All kinds of alliances are possible at the moment, I'm trying to make it a proper diplomatic chaos, right in the middle of the international order already being in quite a bit of turmoil. There indeed is a lot of trouble with the Americans, and their internal politics are making the situation even more explosive. The Dutch haven't openly stated that they want to annex further territories, but it already looks like that because their armies, even the ones they have there, are much stronger than their local adversaries. After all, these troops are equipped and trained to European standards, and perhaps more importantly, they have intact logistics networks and all that, whereas especially the central American countries have been cut to pieces.

The contempt towards the Walloons will indeed lead to some issues, but they have for now been kept mostly out of matters and they don't really have all that much to offer to foreign powers. And don't worry about van Gent, he's just a man after all.

The Remonstratie is a bit like the British ships of the time, with five twin turrets. It is quite powerful, it can be compared to an Iron Duke. The British have indeed seized the foreign ships, about which especially Chile is incredibly angry right now. They need all the help they can get at this moment. There also won't be any cancellations with the British suddenly facing a major naval power, so things will look really different there.

Dutch nitrates also come from Chile, with which they now find themselves at war. For now, they still have reserves, but unless the war is won quickly, they will have to find alternative sources. But then again that also applies for most of the rest of the world, because the Dutch navy can do a lot to hurt any ships heading to or from Chile. Funnily enough this means that Germany is the country that can most afford to be against them, because they have the most developed chemical industry. Other countries will suffer huge issues if they can't get nitrates from south America. They will still be able to produce some, but not nearly as much as will be needed.

Most of the British fleet remains at Scapa, although elements have been transferred to the south. As far as I know, Scapa was also selected for its security, and they don't want to get caught in port by a sudden Dutch attack.

Well that sounds like we could end up with a triple alliance of Britain, Japan and the US against the Netherlands! Japan won't accept such demands, especially since I suspect the Dutch also expect to kept the section of Japan they hold, as well as Taiwan. Given the current tension, the attack on and sinking of a British cruiser and the distinctly hostile nature of a lot of Dutch commentary a large naval force sailing along the British coast with guns aimed at the country is very explosive. If Britain hears about it before it happens I can see an ultimatum ordering them to stay a certain distance away from British shores. If they don't until the ships have sailed there's great potential for a much larger clash. For the US the talk of seizing further land and annexing a couple of central American states is going to be incendiary and Wilson will be under a lot of pressure to act while a certain former President will be making a lot of noise and being listened to by many.

I also suspect the fairly open contempt being displayed toward the former Belgium people especially could make them very vulnerable to being 'hired' by external sources to supply information. Germany is of course in the best position for this but Britain and others might well be tempted as well to find out more about the newcomers.

Feel distinctly sorry for poor van Gent. Realise why Jakoba is lying but its going to be frustrating for him.

With the Remonstrantie 10x350mm would that be five twins - like British ships at the time - two twins and two triples, like some of the US standards? A lot also depends on the armoured protection and speed and a lot of other factors but sounds like a powerful ship.

Which made me think of a point. OTL Britain took over 4 BBs under construction for Chile and Turkey when they entered the war. They haven't joined the current conflict yet but I can see them doing likewise here with the sudden arrival of a large and distinctly unfriendly Dutch state on their doorstep. Which will upset both powers but Chile at least Britain offered generous compensation. Another factor here is that Chile was the primary source of natural nitrates at this point in time and while the development of the Faber process gave a synthetic alternative this was only really being applied in Germany at this point so a Dutch threat to this trade will be important to a lot of nations. I also wonder what sources the Dutch use for nitrates? Ditto I think Britain might go for the additional 3 R's and an updated Queen Elizabeth that were planned at this stage but cancelled because of the war with Germany. Basically I can see another naval race starting as I doubt either nation will be willing to accept 2nd place to the other.

Also while OTL the British fleet moved to Scapa at the start of the war, since that blocked any German attempts to raid via the north sea into the Atlantic and enabled a distant blockade, given two powerful now potentially hostile fleets with one literally on the channel entrance it might be its pulled back down to south coast ports.

Steve

First another nice update raunchel .

Second, why do we assume the United States will join, its only 1914, also you forgot Italy, unless they join Germany.

Italy is in a difficult place. Their nationalism drives them mostly against Austria, but also against France. They can go either way really.

First another nice update raunchel .

Second, why do we assume the United States will join, its only 1914, also you forgot Italy, unless they join Germany.

The Monroe_Doctrine, as at this stage they actually have the power to seek to apply it, plus the sudden presence of a great power 'occupying' as they will see it most of S America and engaged in violent expansion against some of the smaller states in the region. 'Their bullying central American countries. They can't do that, that's our job!'

Also given they have control of the entire Lesser Antilles, plus Puerto Rico which was a US territory and a chunk of central America this threatens both US commerce in the region and the recently completed Panama canal. Doubly so given their control of the Cape Horn route as that would make it pretty much impossible for their Pacific and Atlantic fleets to support each other. Not to mention the loss of a good chunk of the Philippines.

I hadn't actually noticed they had Puerto Rico before which would be enough of a flash-point but the fact their a 'European' power that suddenly controls most of Latin America and is fight to take over other areas and red rag and bull come to mind. Ironically Raunchel has come up with a scenario which is highly unusual for this period as it could lead to a US-Japanese alliance, or at least co-beilligency against this Dutch empire even if they don't end up fighting Britain. The US was in a rather belligerent mood at this restrained by its own isolation but the Dutch are now intruding into their own back yard in spades here.

The American situation indeed is difficult, and chances are that it will lead to further issues in the future. As you say, they were quite active at this time, they just didn't have a strong enough interest to immediately join the European war. A war right on their doorstep is something quite different however, especially if it is a country that was formerly seen as insignificant. Reality might be different, but that will be a part of their judgment.

The Monroe_Doctrine, as at this stage they actually have the power to seek to apply it, plus the sudden presence of a great power 'occupying' as they will see it most of S America and engaged in violent expansion against some of the smaller states in the region. 'Their bullying central American countries. They can't do that, that's our job!'

Also given they have control of the entire Lesser Antilles, plus Puerto Rico which was a US territory and a chunk of central America this threatens both US commerce in the region and the recently completed Panama canal. Doubly so given their control of the Cape Horn route as that would make it pretty much impossible for their Pacific and Atlantic fleets to support each other. Not to mention the loss of a good chunk of the Philippines.

I hadn't actually noticed they had Puerto Rico before which would be enough of a flash-point but the fact their a 'European' power that suddenly controls most of Latin America and is fight to take over other areas and red rag and bull come to mind. Ironically Raunchel has come up with a scenario which is highly unusual for this period as it could lead to a US-Japanese alliance, or at least co-beilligency against this Dutch empire even if they don't end up fighting Britain. The US was in a rather belligerent mood at this restrained by its own isolation but the Dutch are now intruding into their own back yard in spades here.

Never toughed of that stevep , so the United States might join the British, Japanese, Russians and French while this will force the Netherlands to join Germany and Austria-Hungary, unless the Netherlands does not join them due them thinking they are strong enough to fight this war alone.

That would only happen if the Entente finds itself at war with the Dutch, whereas now the French and Russians are fighting their own little war against the central powers. The Netherlands might like Austro-German help against the British if it comes to that, but the issue is, that means exposing their land borders. And of course, the Austro-Germans don't exactly want any more enemies, and the Dutch don't really have a good excuse to declare war on the French or Russians.

Nov 23, 2018 11:24:18 GMT stevep said: