raunchel
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Post by raunchel on Nov 16, 2018 12:53:42 GMT
Berlin, August 20, 1914
Dear Father,
Thank you so much for your prayers and advice. It hurts, but faith is what allows me to persevere in my duties. Karel is in God’s hands, and all my trust is in Him.
So many things are happening now, and I barely have the time to write it all. We visited the opera, and I must say, I was moved to tears by the exquisite music and song. It appears that the Germans aren’t as backwards as we thought at first, the music was written by the court opera’s conductor!
The fighting is continuing at the German-French border, and I’ve heard that the Germans will soon launch their counter-attack under the command of the crown prince of Bavaria. It seems to still be a kingdom, but somehow, they are below the emperor in a way that simply seems odd. They didn’t even fight hard for it, but I couldn’t ask more as the discussion moved on to the Russian offensive that started today! There is much worrying about there not being many men in the east, as most was sent west and there appears to be a massive chaos on our border.
Concerning this, there have been further requests from several parties for us to allow their army free passage. Uncle Sytze told them that such things just aren’t possible, which led to tempers rising. At some point, I even feared that the German chancellor might strike him! Fortunately, I was able to calm feelings, and in a private meeting afterwards, assured the chancellor that our government is considering it. I also told him that our railways don’t meet, so that would be immensely troublesome.
This little discussion led to an agreement to make work of connecting the railways and telegraph lines. Uncle Sytze agreed to this, as did I. We need a way to quickly gain reinforcements in case the French proof treacherous, while we also have to be careful to not make an invasion too easy for the Germans. We also discussed a few other matters, including any offers of territorial adjustments in a post-war situation, which I of course said would only ever be relevant should there be such a thing.
I’m beginning to worry for Uncle Sytze however. He seems to be constantly on-edge and on several occasions, he has lashed out. At the same time, he complains of exhaustion. As we are only a small embassy, this has led to more and more work having to be done by me.
There also was a meeting with the three Dutch embassies from this world, where Uncle Sytze could fortunately preside. In it, a preliminary agreement was made to grant citizenship rights to any citizens of those countries within Germany, and guaranteeing their right to their own religion for now. Of course, the Estates General still have to agree to such a thing. But for now, we have taken guardianship over these people. I however don’t trust them sufficiently, and recommended that we don’t make use of them for any negotiations.
I have also encountered the staff of the English embassy, as we were invited to have dinner there. Uncle Sytze felt unwell, so I had to go, accompanied only by colonel van Speyk. He however only speaks Dutch, which makes me wonder about why he was selected as part of our small mission.
Sir Edward Goschen is an elderly man, but he appears mostly calm and friendly. He even complimented me on my English, although he was curious about some of the words I used. I had wanted to speak to his daughter-in-law, but unfortunately, duty came first. He pressed me about our position regarding Germany, and I got the feeling that he is worried about our presence at Kales and beyond. He also expressed that his government would prefer us to remain neutral, and from the way he phrased things, I started to believe that they are somewhat aligned with the French in this conflict.
Have you heard anything about French activities on the border? If they begin to threaten you, I fear treachery from the English. On several occasions, he asked about our fleet, and despite his demeanor, I could see that others were in fact worried about its presence. Naturally, I told them that our fleet is the finest in the world and mentioned our splendid victories won over them in 1874, and naturally also mentioned your presence at Margate.
I however assured them that since that war, we have been able to continue in the friendship that fits great nations and that the disagreements concerning the Indian trade were resolved. But I could see that they, and especially the naval attaché, were shaken by the very idea of naval defeat. I appear to have underestimated the effects that would have.
There has been a most fortunate distraction from the ongoing bleakness of war. While I was in the zoo, I had the good luck to meet a lady, someone who actually works as a journalist! Can you believe it?
She has shown me much kindness and gave me a tour of the area, and afterwards, she took me to a small café where we had some tea and truly amazing cake. It was wonderful to have some sort of diversion, and, if I can admit it, it did me good to not have to be as careful as when I represent our country’s interests. I have decided to take her on as a secretary, as work just keeps mounting.
In conversation with a navy captain, I was told about a so-called Taschenbuch der Kriegsflotten, and naturally, I gave Karen money to purchase an edition. The most recent she could find is from 1913, but should provide more information on the naval strengths we may find here. It is being sent to the admiralty, where I hope that it will provide us with much information.
Tomorrow, I’ve been invited to a private audience with the emperor, and will naturally inform you about anything that happens. Uncle Sytze has expressed worries that I might be given too many responsibilities, but I believe that, God willing, I will be able to do my duty.
Your faithful daughter,
Jakoba
Antwerpen, August 20, 1914
Dearest Jakoba,
It fills me with pride to learn that you are able to accept the passing of the man you loved and I pray that you will be able to find new love once you have returned from your mission. It however worries me that you have to take over some of your uncle’s duties, and I recommend that you ask him to ask for more personnel. It’s simply not healthy for you to work this much. At least, you have had the good fortune to meet someone you can spend ladylike time with.
I urge you to be careful with the emperor, and other such figures. Royalty often believe that they can afford liberties with young women, and sometimes even use the threat of their position for such purposes. You must maintain your dignity, even if it comes at a cost to our nation. Whatever happens, keep your safety in mind.
For now, we remain at peace, but I don’t know for how long. The decision has been made to censor newspapers and magazines, in order to stop speculations of less patriotic elements and authorities have also put an end to a petition circulating among the fleet, demanding war with Japan. An investigation is underway, and as soon as things here are put into order, a fleet will be despatched.
In two days, we will start a major fleet exercise, mostly meant as a demonstration of strength, not only to potential enemies, but also to our own men. I will now return to my duties and pray for the strength we will need in the coming days.
Your loving father,
Johan Rots
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Nov 16, 2018 15:56:01 GMT
Berlin, August 20, 1914
Dear Father, Thank you so much for your prayers and advice. It hurts, but faith is what allows me to persevere in my duties. Karel is in God’s hands, and all my trust is in Him. So many things are happening now, and I barely have the time to write it all. We visited the opera, and I must say, I was moved to tears by the exquisite music and song. It appears that the Germans aren’t as backwards as we thought at first, the music was written by the court opera’s conductor! The fighting is continuing at the German-French border, and I’ve heard that the Germans will soon launch their counter-attack under the command of the crown prince of Bavaria. It seems to still be a kingdom, but somehow, they are below the emperor in a way that simply seems odd. They didn’t even fight hard for it, but I couldn’t ask more as the discussion moved on to the Russian offensive that started today! There is much worrying about there not being many men in the east, as most was sent west and there appears to be a massive chaos on our border. Concerning this, there have been further requests from several parties for us to allow their army free passage. Uncle Sytze told them that such things just aren’t possible, which led to tempers rising. At some point, I even feared that the German chancellor might strike him! Fortunately, I was able to calm feelings, and in a private meeting afterwards, assured the chancellor that our government is considering it. I also told him that our railways don’t meet, so that would be immensely troublesome. This little discussion led to an agreement to make work of connecting the railways and telegraph lines. Uncle Sytze agreed to this, as did I. We need a way to quickly gain reinforcements in case the French proof treacherous, while we also have to be careful to not make an invasion too easy for the Germans. We also discussed a few other matters, including any offers of territorial adjustments in a post-war situation, which I of course said would only ever be relevant should there be such a thing. I’m beginning to worry for Uncle Sytze however. He seems to be constantly on-edge and on several occasions, he has lashed out. At the same time, he complains of exhaustion. As we are only a small embassy, this has led to more and more work having to be done by me. There also was a meeting with the three Dutch embassies from this world, where Uncle Sytze could fortunately preside. In it, a preliminary agreement was made to grant citizenship rights to any citizens of those countries within Germany, and guaranteeing their right to their own religion for now. Of course, the Estates General still have to agree to such a thing. But for now, we have taken guardianship over these people. I however don’t trust them sufficiently, and recommended that we don’t make use of them for any negotiations. I have also encountered the staff of the English embassy, as we were invited to have dinner there. Uncle Sytze felt unwell, so I had to go, accompanied only by colonel van Speyk. He however only speaks Dutch, which makes me wonder about why he was selected as part of our small mission. Sir Edward Goschen is an elderly man, but he appears mostly calm and friendly. He even complimented me on my English, although he was curious about some of the words I used. I had wanted to speak to his daughter-in-law, but unfortunately, duty came first. He pressed me about our position regarding Germany, and I got the feeling that he is worried about our presence at Kales and beyond. He also expressed that his government would prefer us to remain neutral, and from the way he phrased things, I started to believe that they are somewhat aligned with the French in this conflict. Have you heard anything about French activities on the border? If they begin to threaten you, I fear treachery from the English. On several occasions, he asked about our fleet, and despite his demeanor, I could see that others were in fact worried about its presence. Naturally, I told them that our fleet is the finest in the world and mentioned our splendid victories won over them in 1874, and naturally also mentioned your presence at Margate. I however assured them that since that war, we have been able to continue in the friendship that fits great nations and that the disagreements concerning the Indian trade were resolved. But I could see that they, and especially the naval attaché, were shaken by the very idea of naval defeat. I appear to have underestimated the effects that would have. There has been a most fortunate distraction from the ongoing bleakness of war. While I was in the zoo, I had the good luck to meet a lady, someone who actually works as a journalist! Can you believe it? She has shown me much kindness and gave me a tour of the area, and afterwards, she took me to a small café where we had some tea and truly amazing cake. It was wonderful to have some sort of diversion, and, if I can admit it, it did me good to not have to be as careful as when I represent our country’s interests. I have decided to take her on as a secretary, as work just keeps mounting. In conversation with a navy captain, I was told about a so-called Taschenbuch der Kriegsflotten, and naturally, I gave Karen money to purchase an edition. The most recent she could find is from 1913, but should provide more information on the naval strengths we may find here. It is being sent to the admiralty, where I hope that it will provide us with much information. Tomorrow, I’ve been invited to a private audience with the emperor, and will naturally inform you about anything that happens. Uncle Sytze has expressed worries that I might be given too many responsibilities, but I believe that, God willing, I will be able to do my duty. Your faithful daughter, Jakoba Antwerpen, August 20, 1914
Dearest Jakoba, It fills me with pride to learn that you are able to accept the passing of the man you loved and I pray that you will be able to find new love once you have returned from your mission. It however worries me that you have to take over some of your uncle’s duties, and I recommend that you ask him to ask for more personnel. It’s simply not healthy for you to work this much. At least, you have had the good fortune to meet someone you can spend ladylike time with. I urge you to be careful with the emperor, and other such figures. Royalty often believe that they can afford liberties with young women, and sometimes even use the threat of their position for such purposes. You must maintain your dignity, even if it comes at a cost to our nation. Whatever happens, keep your safety in mind. For now, we remain at peace, but I don’t know for how long. The decision has been made to censor newspapers and magazines, in order to stop speculations of less patriotic elements and authorities have also put an end to a petition circulating among the fleet, demanding war with Japan. An investigation is underway, and as soon as things here are put into order, a fleet will be despatched. In two days, we will start a major fleet exercise, mostly meant as a demonstration of strength, not only to potential enemies, but also to our own men. I will now return to my duties and pray for the strength we will need in the coming days. Your loving father, Johan Rots Nice update raunchel. The British and Germans will pay a lot of attention to this Netherlands naval exercise as they can learn a lot of the naval power of the Netherlands by observing it. |
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stevep
Fleet admiral
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Post by stevep on Nov 16, 2018 19:59:50 GMT
So yellows, it seem that the people of the Republic look down on the Japanese if the call them that. Also eurowatch , no comments about this timeline, it is about a strong Netherlands. They indeed look down on the Japanese, they were a bit like China in our timeline, so the Dutch could carve out a little bit. And of course, there is the general racism of the era. Jakoba doesn't yet know about the Russian humiliation against Japan, but that would indeed put it in some perspective. Although, with a bit of work, Russians could also be seen as not really white.
I think most of the west was still rather looking down on Japan at the time, probably including at least a few in Britain even considering we were allied with them. Plus by the sound of it in their world Japan is like a smaller China, i.e. weak, backwards and divided, hence there being a Dutch colony in the Japanese homeland. It might be that other nations have carved out parts of Japan so those Dutch wouldn't be expecting it to be a strong modern nation. I wonder if Jakoba has heard yet about the Japanese defeat of Russia a decade ago. If so and depending on the status of Russia in her world that could be an eye opener. Albeit that was helped by the backward nature of some of the Russian forces, the sheer logistics of a war in the Far East without a complete rail link and some bits of luck by the Japanese.
It sounds like this Netherlands is still very religious, even compared to OTL 1914 Europe.
Concerned about the paranoia about Britain. Does sound rather like Anglo-Dutch relations in their world are as good as Franco-German relations in 1914!  Coupled with the territorial clashes that are likely around the world where important parts of the British empire have suddenly become Dutch there is a distinct danger it could end up with a war that neither side, other than some hot-heads would really want. I wonder if anyone from either country has actually met up yet and compared world maps as that will show a hell of a lot of headaches! Mostly between Britain and the Netherlands but a number of others as well.
I'm wondering what's happening with those huge armies that were due to march into Belgium and Luxembourg? Suspect some are still on the border both because of logistics and because they don't know what way [if any] the new mega-Netherlands will jump. Plus given the inflexibility of elements of the army there are probably some fools still thinking they should be marching through anyway and those newcomers be damned as their on the way to Paris. However would expect a few corps are probably being directed down toward Alsace-Lorraine and even more likely towards E Prussia as the Russians are moblising faster than the Germans expected. The appearance of the Greater Dutch empire could well be a massive bonus for Germany because it prevents them making arguably their greatest mistake in the war, especially since Britain, both because of the lack of invasion of Belgium and the appearance of a powerful new naval force is going to be less likely to support France, at least for the moment.
Strangely enough the great power the Netherlands might be closest to could be France as both are republican in a highly monarchist world - plus also the US although their some distance away. Mind you this could depend on how France reacts to the loss of the Calais region.
Would be interesting to know when was the last time Britain/England and the Netherlands last fought in Raunchl's world?
These Netherlands aren't very religious, although they still are more religious than other countries of the time. Of course, that partially comes because of my own background, but also because it has always been a deeply religious country. Only now there is a strong state religion and several branches of Christianity are banned. There have been initial meetings between British and Dutch representatives, but the most official meetings have been between members of the new embassies in France and Germany. There haven't yet been high-level talks, and there still is a lot to be worked out before that will happen. The Anglo-Dutch relations were pretty awful, and they have fought quite a few wars. The most recent will be mentioned soon, but there were plenty more. And of course, a lot of colonial competition. The German army has been thrown into disarray because their whole plan came crashing down. They're currently trying to reorganise, but that will take time. So, until then, there remains a huge military concentration just over the border. Some forces have been drawn south however, and other later waves of troops have instead been sent to the east. There however still is enough of an army facing the Dutch to smash through their border fortresses. After all, there wasn't much that could resist the full might of the Imperial German Army at this time. It seems there is heavy fighting between Germany and France at thier border due the Germans not yet having invaded what is now Netherlands controlled Belgium and Luxembourg, thus i wonder, did the French in 1914 have some sort of Maginot line protecting their border.
Both sides had fortifications but unfortunately for France the dominant military philosophy at that date was very offensive with the believe that elan and determination could defeat defences, despite a lack of adequate heavy artillery. This was the suicidal plan 17 that meant they launched massed infantry attacks against the German fortifications and suffered appalling losses, I think the worst in the entire war. This was moderated somewhat when the relatively weak German forces in the region, who were supposed to just hold their positions while the right wing crashed through Belgium to encircle both Paris [according to the original, impractical plan] and the French armies attacking in AL actually went on the offensive themselves. Here of course the German right isn't going to come crashing through Belgium but I would expect some forces will start moving down from their start positions facing the Belgium border towards the A-L one. Although since the German rail lines in the region were built largely to direct troops to the expected line of advance this would mean some marching but that shouldn't be a great problem.
If the French fall back on their defences, especially since there's not a massive force threatening their flank then they could well hold although it would be bloody, for both sides and, presuming the Dutch stay neutral and that neutrally is respected, the French aren't going to lose a hell of a lot of their industrial heartland in the NE, which will help them considerably. It could be a long and bloody war if the British and Dutch both stay out of it - but the British maintain their agreement to cover the French coastline against possible German naval action. [Which should be possible given their desire to maintain free traffic through such an important waterway. Although given how powerful and mistrustful the Dutch are here that could lead to some tension].
There are plenty of fortresses in the region, the French for instance have the fortresses around Verdun while the Germans have Metz (powerful enough to still be a major obstacle thirty years later). Plan XVII however remains in full effect and has seen initial successes (at the cost of some losses, at the 17th, the Germans start to really fight back and bring their heavy guns to bear. After that, it becomes truly awful to be a French soldier. The Germans are getting some extra reinforcements here, so it will be a real bloodbath without any of the lessons of the war being learnt. The terrain however also isn't as good, and the front is relatively short, which gives the potential for a stalemate. Both sides will need a reserve in case the Dutch prove treacherous, but the Dutch army is only a little stronger than the Belgian was at the start of the war (same in numbers, better in equipment and training). It can hold fortresses and slow things down, but it lacks the size to be really relevant offensively. That can only change when more manpower is brought in. Well there is no Belgium as it is part of the Republic of the Netherlands ore whatever its full name is, thus even if the Germans invade the Southern part of the Netherlands (OTL Belgium and Luxembourg), i do not know if the British guarantee is still in effect as that only covered a now missing Kingdom of Belgium.
Depending on the strength of the Dutch forces it may not be necessary but I would think Britain would find it convenient to support the Dutch if they were attacked. You might not get the same massed volunteers as with an attack on little Belgium rather than this unknown and somewhat hostile power that's suddenly appears. However allying with the powerful Dutch fleet would be a good way of removing any threat from them and really turning the screw on Germany. Of course depending on the circumstances they could stay neutral which would save a lot of British blood and money but would rather isolate Britain diplomatically as France and Russia would be likely to see it as desertion. A bit like the bloc/EDA in James's story, although no formal alliance existed in Britain's case in 1914.
If the Dutch get invaded, they will immediately have to give full access to an ally. They have roughly half a million soldiers in the mainland, of which a large part is positioned to hold the string of fortresses around all borders. They just can't hold for very long against armies of millions, and will need the support of an ally, which would mean either the French or the Germans. The British were already being accused of treachery when they didn't join the war right away, the French had been given the impression that they would. Things now are a little more complicated, but the same still applies and the British did give guarantees about protecting the northern coast. Guarantees that would get complicated if they don't just have to stop the German navy.
a) That sounds ominous, although acceptance of Russia as European has always been a bit patchy.
b) It would partly depend on the size and character of the Dutch army. One of my source books say that Belgium army was only ~43,000 regulars and 117,000 reserves. That's definitely not enough to delay the Germans long, especially since they have a much longer border to defend and does seem a very small force for such a powerful state, unless military tensions and the preceived continental threat is a lot lower OTL. However is that ~160,000 the regular army before reserves are mobilised or including such reserves? [Notice you say half a million further down but again is that regulars or including reserves?] If the latter then yes they would need aid, although powerful modern fortresses could delay matters somewhat. Plus that would really cause problems for the HSFs. If the former and say there is twice as many reserves to moblise then the Dutch could probably put up a hell of fight for a while but ultimately would be worn down without outside aid.
c) So there are 7 component republics from outside Europe. As opposed to them being colonies. Would expect most of those to be in S America and S Africa although could have something in the DEI and possibly Tasmania? Has that proved practical with the technology of the time as even with telegrams it would make it difficult to have members for those regions to keep in touch with home affairs while in a Parliament in the Netherlands. Or am I misreading and their more like the British dominions?
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stevep
Fleet admiral
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Post by stevep on Nov 16, 2018 20:11:51 GMT
Berlin, August 20, 1914
Dear Father, Thank you so much for your prayers and advice. It hurts, but faith is what allows me to persevere in my duties. Karel is in God’s hands, and all my trust is in Him. So many things are happening now, and I barely have the time to write it all. We visited the opera, and I must say, I was moved to tears by the exquisite music and song. It appears that the Germans aren’t as backwards as we thought at first, the music was written by the court opera’s conductor! The fighting is continuing at the German-French border, and I’ve heard that the Germans will soon launch their counter-attack under the command of the crown prince of Bavaria. It seems to still be a kingdom, but somehow, they are below the emperor in a way that simply seems odd. They didn’t even fight hard for it, but I couldn’t ask more as the discussion moved on to the Russian offensive that started today! There is much worrying about there not being many men in the east, as most was sent west and there appears to be a massive chaos on our border. Concerning this, there have been further requests from several parties for us to allow their army free passage. Uncle Sytze told them that such things just aren’t possible, which led to tempers rising. At some point, I even feared that the German chancellor might strike him! Fortunately, I was able to calm feelings, and in a private meeting afterwards, assured the chancellor that our government is considering it. I also told him that our railways don’t meet, so that would be immensely troublesome. This little discussion led to an agreement to make work of connecting the railways and telegraph lines. Uncle Sytze agreed to this, as did I. We need a way to quickly gain reinforcements in case the French proof treacherous, while we also have to be careful to not make an invasion too easy for the Germans. We also discussed a few other matters, including any offers of territorial adjustments in a post-war situation, which I of course said would only ever be relevant should there be such a thing. I’m beginning to worry for Uncle Sytze however. He seems to be constantly on-edge and on several occasions, he has lashed out. At the same time, he complains of exhaustion. As we are only a small embassy, this has led to more and more work having to be done by me. There also was a meeting with the three Dutch embassies from this world, where Uncle Sytze could fortunately preside. In it, a preliminary agreement was made to grant citizenship rights to any citizens of those countries within Germany, and guaranteeing their right to their own religion for now. Of course, the Estates General still have to agree to such a thing. But for now, we have taken guardianship over these people. I however don’t trust them sufficiently, and recommended that we don’t make use of them for any negotiations. I have also encountered the staff of the English embassy, as we were invited to have dinner there. Uncle Sytze felt unwell, so I had to go, accompanied only by colonel van Speyk. He however only speaks Dutch, which makes me wonder about why he was selected as part of our small mission. Sir Edward Goschen is an elderly man, but he appears mostly calm and friendly. He even complimented me on my English, although he was curious about some of the words I used. I had wanted to speak to his daughter-in-law, but unfortunately, duty came first. He pressed me about our position regarding Germany, and I got the feeling that he is worried about our presence at Kales and beyond. He also expressed that his government would prefer us to remain neutral, and from the way he phrased things, I started to believe that they are somewhat aligned with the French in this conflict. Have you heard anything about French activities on the border? If they begin to threaten you, I fear treachery from the English. On several occasions, he asked about our fleet, and despite his demeanor, I could see that others were in fact worried about its presence. Naturally, I told them that our fleet is the finest in the world and mentioned our splendid victories won over them in 1874, and naturally also mentioned your presence at Margate. I however assured them that since that war, we have been able to continue in the friendship that fits great nations and that the disagreements concerning the Indian trade were resolved. But I could see that they, and especially the naval attaché, were shaken by the very idea of naval defeat. I appear to have underestimated the effects that would have. There has been a most fortunate distraction from the ongoing bleakness of war. While I was in the zoo, I had the good luck to meet a lady, someone who actually works as a journalist! Can you believe it? She has shown me much kindness and gave me a tour of the area, and afterwards, she took me to a small café where we had some tea and truly amazing cake. It was wonderful to have some sort of diversion, and, if I can admit it, it did me good to not have to be as careful as when I represent our country’s interests. I have decided to take her on as a secretary, as work just keeps mounting. In conversation with a navy captain, I was told about a so-called Taschenbuch der Kriegsflotten, and naturally, I gave Karen money to purchase an edition. The most recent she could find is from 1913, but should provide more information on the naval strengths we may find here. It is being sent to the admiralty, where I hope that it will provide us with much information. Tomorrow, I’ve been invited to a private audience with the emperor, and will naturally inform you about anything that happens. Uncle Sytze has expressed worries that I might be given too many responsibilities, but I believe that, God willing, I will be able to do my duty. Your faithful daughter, Jakoba Antwerpen, August 20, 1914
Dearest Jakoba, It fills me with pride to learn that you are able to accept the passing of the man you loved and I pray that you will be able to find new love once you have returned from your mission. It however worries me that you have to take over some of your uncle’s duties, and I recommend that you ask him to ask for more personnel. It’s simply not healthy for you to work this much. At least, you have had the good fortune to meet someone you can spend ladylike time with. I urge you to be careful with the emperor, and other such figures. Royalty often believe that they can afford liberties with young women, and sometimes even use the threat of their position for such purposes. You must maintain your dignity, even if it comes at a cost to our nation. Whatever happens, keep your safety in mind. For now, we remain at peace, but I don’t know for how long. The decision has been made to censor newspapers and magazines, in order to stop speculations of less patriotic elements and authorities have also put an end to a petition circulating among the fleet, demanding war with Japan. An investigation is underway, and as soon as things here are put into order, a fleet will be despatched. In two days, we will start a major fleet exercise, mostly meant as a demonstration of strength, not only to potential enemies, but also to our own men. I will now return to my duties and pray for the strength we will need in the coming days. Your loving father, Johan Rots Nice update raunchel . The British and Germans will pay a lot of attention to this Netherlands naval exercise as they can learn a lot of the naval power of the Netherlands by observing it.
That might depend on how close they can get to it and how much detail they can gather. Some general ideas of numbers and size of ships but gun sizes, armour, speed and less observable issues such as quality of men and equipment are always going to be difficult to tell.
There is also the problem with the current international tensions that it could be seen as an aggressive move, especially I fear by Britain given the close proximity of the western Dutch territories and the unfriendly tone Jakoba displayed to the British ambassador in Berlin. Even more so if there is no parallel mission to London and the British hear rumours about the Dutch talking with Germany about allowing access through their territory. A further complication is that if the GF has gone to Scapa as OTL the British forces in the Channel fleet, largely pre-dreadnoughts, would be heavily outclassed.
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stevep
Fleet admiral
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Post by stevep on Nov 16, 2018 20:24:09 GMT
Berlin, August 20, 1914
Dear Father, Thank you so much for your prayers and advice. It hurts, but faith is what allows me to persevere in my duties. Karel is in God’s hands, and all my trust is in Him. So many things are happening now, and I barely have the time to write it all. We visited the opera, and I must say, I was moved to tears by the exquisite music and song. It appears that the Germans aren’t as backwards as we thought at first, the music was written by the court opera’s conductor! The fighting is continuing at the German-French border, and I’ve heard that the Germans will soon launch their counter-attack under the command of the crown prince of Bavaria. It seems to still be a kingdom, but somehow, they are below the emperor in a way that simply seems odd. They didn’t even fight hard for it, but I couldn’t ask more as the discussion moved on to the Russian offensive that started today! There is much worrying about there not being many men in the east, as most was sent west and there appears to be a massive chaos on our border. Concerning this, there have been further requests from several parties for us to allow their army free passage. Uncle Sytze told them that such things just aren’t possible, which led to tempers rising. At some point, I even feared that the German chancellor might strike him! Fortunately, I was able to calm feelings, and in a private meeting afterwards, assured the chancellor that our government is considering it. I also told him that our railways don’t meet, so that would be immensely troublesome. This little discussion led to an agreement to make work of connecting the railways and telegraph lines. Uncle Sytze agreed to this, as did I. We need a way to quickly gain reinforcements in case the French proof treacherous, while we also have to be careful to not make an invasion too easy for the Germans. We also discussed a few other matters, including any offers of territorial adjustments in a post-war situation, which I of course said would only ever be relevant should there be such a thing. I’m beginning to worry for Uncle Sytze however. He seems to be constantly on-edge and on several occasions, he has lashed out. At the same time, he complains of exhaustion. As we are only a small embassy, this has led to more and more work having to be done by me. There also was a meeting with the three Dutch embassies from this world, where Uncle Sytze could fortunately preside. In it, a preliminary agreement was made to grant citizenship rights to any citizens of those countries within Germany, and guaranteeing their right to their own religion for now. Of course, the Estates General still have to agree to such a thing. But for now, we have taken guardianship over these people. I however don’t trust them sufficiently, and recommended that we don’t make use of them for any negotiations. I have also encountered the staff of the English embassy, as we were invited to have dinner there. Uncle Sytze felt unwell, so I had to go, accompanied only by colonel van Speyk. He however only speaks Dutch, which makes me wonder about why he was selected as part of our small mission. Sir Edward Goschen is an elderly man, but he appears mostly calm and friendly. He even complimented me on my English, although he was curious about some of the words I used. I had wanted to speak to his daughter-in-law, but unfortunately, duty came first. He pressed me about our position regarding Germany, and I got the feeling that he is worried about our presence at Kales and beyond. He also expressed that his government would prefer us to remain neutral, and from the way he phrased things, I started to believe that they are somewhat aligned with the French in this conflict. Have you heard anything about French activities on the border? If they begin to threaten you, I fear treachery from the English. On several occasions, he asked about our fleet, and despite his demeanor, I could see that others were in fact worried about its presence. Naturally, I told them that our fleet is the finest in the world and mentioned our splendid victories won over them in 1874, and naturally also mentioned your presence at Margate. I however assured them that since that war, we have been able to continue in the friendship that fits great nations and that the disagreements concerning the Indian trade were resolved. But I could see that they, and especially the naval attaché, were shaken by the very idea of naval defeat. I appear to have underestimated the effects that would have. There has been a most fortunate distraction from the ongoing bleakness of war. While I was in the zoo, I had the good luck to meet a lady, someone who actually works as a journalist! Can you believe it? She has shown me much kindness and gave me a tour of the area, and afterwards, she took me to a small café where we had some tea and truly amazing cake. It was wonderful to have some sort of diversion, and, if I can admit it, it did me good to not have to be as careful as when I represent our country’s interests. I have decided to take her on as a secretary, as work just keeps mounting. In conversation with a navy captain, I was told about a so-called Taschenbuch der Kriegsflotten, and naturally, I gave Karen money to purchase an edition. The most recent she could find is from 1913, but should provide more information on the naval strengths we may find here. It is being sent to the admiralty, where I hope that it will provide us with much information. Tomorrow, I’ve been invited to a private audience with the emperor, and will naturally inform you about anything that happens. Uncle Sytze has expressed worries that I might be given too many responsibilities, but I believe that, God willing, I will be able to do my duty. Your faithful daughter, Jakoba Antwerpen, August 20, 1914
Dearest Jakoba, It fills me with pride to learn that you are able to accept the passing of the man you loved and I pray that you will be able to find new love once you have returned from your mission. It however worries me that you have to take over some of your uncle’s duties, and I recommend that you ask him to ask for more personnel. It’s simply not healthy for you to work this much. At least, you have had the good fortune to meet someone you can spend ladylike time with. I urge you to be careful with the emperor, and other such figures. Royalty often believe that they can afford liberties with young women, and sometimes even use the threat of their position for such purposes. You must maintain your dignity, even if it comes at a cost to our nation. Whatever happens, keep your safety in mind. For now, we remain at peace, but I don’t know for how long. The decision has been made to censor newspapers and magazines, in order to stop speculations of less patriotic elements and authorities have also put an end to a petition circulating among the fleet, demanding war with Japan. An investigation is underway, and as soon as things here are put into order, a fleet will be despatched. In two days, we will start a major fleet exercise, mostly meant as a demonstration of strength, not only to potential enemies, but also to our own men. I will now return to my duties and pray for the strength we will need in the coming days. Your loving father, Johan Rots
Interesting information. Even assuming some patriotic bluster possibly the Dutch are a serious rival to the British in TTL and this plus the fact they have defeated Britain in 1874 and by the sound of it attacked/occupied Margate for a while will be a serious concern for a Britain used to and heavily reliant on naval superiority and currently being threatened by the German HSF, As I said to Lordroel there is the danger, especially with her attitude and the size and proximity of the Dutch fleet to the British homeland there is the danger this would be seen as too aggressive and threatening. Coupled with knowledge about the extensive Dutch empire and their clashes with their Japanese ally this is going to be looking like a very dangerous position for Britain. I fear both nations could blunder into conflict. 
Britain isn't engaged in the current conflict but there could easily be tension and possibly clashes over naval movements, especially near the eastern end of the Channel and the approaches to the Thames estuary. Also if its seeking to protect freedom of trade in the Channel [aka keeping the German forces from French ports] there's the danger of some incident like the Russian attack on British trawlers in 1905 which could escalate into something very badly.
We are only seeing this from the points of view of a father and daughter but hopefully the Dutch are sending ambassadors to other nations as well?
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raunchel
Commander
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Post by raunchel on Nov 19, 2018 13:41:02 GMT
Berlin, August 20, 1914
Dear Father, Thank you so much for your prayers and advice. It hurts, but faith is what allows me to persevere in my duties. Karel is in God’s hands, and all my trust is in Him. So many things are happening now, and I barely have the time to write it all. We visited the opera, and I must say, I was moved to tears by the exquisite music and song. It appears that the Germans aren’t as backwards as we thought at first, the music was written by the court opera’s conductor! The fighting is continuing at the German-French border, and I’ve heard that the Germans will soon launch their counter-attack under the command of the crown prince of Bavaria. It seems to still be a kingdom, but somehow, they are below the emperor in a way that simply seems odd. They didn’t even fight hard for it, but I couldn’t ask more as the discussion moved on to the Russian offensive that started today! There is much worrying about there not being many men in the east, as most was sent west and there appears to be a massive chaos on our border. Concerning this, there have been further requests from several parties for us to allow their army free passage. Uncle Sytze told them that such things just aren’t possible, which led to tempers rising. At some point, I even feared that the German chancellor might strike him! Fortunately, I was able to calm feelings, and in a private meeting afterwards, assured the chancellor that our government is considering it. I also told him that our railways don’t meet, so that would be immensely troublesome. This little discussion led to an agreement to make work of connecting the railways and telegraph lines. Uncle Sytze agreed to this, as did I. We need a way to quickly gain reinforcements in case the French proof treacherous, while we also have to be careful to not make an invasion too easy for the Germans. We also discussed a few other matters, including any offers of territorial adjustments in a post-war situation, which I of course said would only ever be relevant should there be such a thing. I’m beginning to worry for Uncle Sytze however. He seems to be constantly on-edge and on several occasions, he has lashed out. At the same time, he complains of exhaustion. As we are only a small embassy, this has led to more and more work having to be done by me. There also was a meeting with the three Dutch embassies from this world, where Uncle Sytze could fortunately preside. In it, a preliminary agreement was made to grant citizenship rights to any citizens of those countries within Germany, and guaranteeing their right to their own religion for now. Of course, the Estates General still have to agree to such a thing. But for now, we have taken guardianship over these people. I however don’t trust them sufficiently, and recommended that we don’t make use of them for any negotiations. I have also encountered the staff of the English embassy, as we were invited to have dinner there. Uncle Sytze felt unwell, so I had to go, accompanied only by colonel van Speyk. He however only speaks Dutch, which makes me wonder about why he was selected as part of our small mission. Sir Edward Goschen is an elderly man, but he appears mostly calm and friendly. He even complimented me on my English, although he was curious about some of the words I used. I had wanted to speak to his daughter-in-law, but unfortunately, duty came first. He pressed me about our position regarding Germany, and I got the feeling that he is worried about our presence at Kales and beyond. He also expressed that his government would prefer us to remain neutral, and from the way he phrased things, I started to believe that they are somewhat aligned with the French in this conflict. Have you heard anything about French activities on the border? If they begin to threaten you, I fear treachery from the English. On several occasions, he asked about our fleet, and despite his demeanor, I could see that others were in fact worried about its presence. Naturally, I told them that our fleet is the finest in the world and mentioned our splendid victories won over them in 1874, and naturally also mentioned your presence at Margate. I however assured them that since that war, we have been able to continue in the friendship that fits great nations and that the disagreements concerning the Indian trade were resolved. But I could see that they, and especially the naval attaché, were shaken by the very idea of naval defeat. I appear to have underestimated the effects that would have. There has been a most fortunate distraction from the ongoing bleakness of war. While I was in the zoo, I had the good luck to meet a lady, someone who actually works as a journalist! Can you believe it? She has shown me much kindness and gave me a tour of the area, and afterwards, she took me to a small café where we had some tea and truly amazing cake. It was wonderful to have some sort of diversion, and, if I can admit it, it did me good to not have to be as careful as when I represent our country’s interests. I have decided to take her on as a secretary, as work just keeps mounting. In conversation with a navy captain, I was told about a so-called Taschenbuch der Kriegsflotten, and naturally, I gave Karen money to purchase an edition. The most recent she could find is from 1913, but should provide more information on the naval strengths we may find here. It is being sent to the admiralty, where I hope that it will provide us with much information. Tomorrow, I’ve been invited to a private audience with the emperor, and will naturally inform you about anything that happens. Uncle Sytze has expressed worries that I might be given too many responsibilities, but I believe that, God willing, I will be able to do my duty. Your faithful daughter, Jakoba Antwerpen, August 20, 1914
Dearest Jakoba, It fills me with pride to learn that you are able to accept the passing of the man you loved and I pray that you will be able to find new love once you have returned from your mission. It however worries me that you have to take over some of your uncle’s duties, and I recommend that you ask him to ask for more personnel. It’s simply not healthy for you to work this much. At least, you have had the good fortune to meet someone you can spend ladylike time with. I urge you to be careful with the emperor, and other such figures. Royalty often believe that they can afford liberties with young women, and sometimes even use the threat of their position for such purposes. You must maintain your dignity, even if it comes at a cost to our nation. Whatever happens, keep your safety in mind. For now, we remain at peace, but I don’t know for how long. The decision has been made to censor newspapers and magazines, in order to stop speculations of less patriotic elements and authorities have also put an end to a petition circulating among the fleet, demanding war with Japan. An investigation is underway, and as soon as things here are put into order, a fleet will be despatched. In two days, we will start a major fleet exercise, mostly meant as a demonstration of strength, not only to potential enemies, but also to our own men. I will now return to my duties and pray for the strength we will need in the coming days. Your loving father, Johan Rots Nice update raunchel . The British and Germans will pay a lot of attention to this Netherlands naval exercise as they can learn a lot of the naval power of the Netherlands by observing it. Thank you. The exercise will indeed be quite an event, They indeed look down on the Japanese, they were a bit like China in our timeline, so the Dutch could carve out a little bit. And of course, there is the general racism of the era. Jakoba doesn't yet know about the Russian humiliation against Japan, but that would indeed put it in some perspective. Although, with a bit of work, Russians could also be seen as not really white. These Netherlands aren't very religious, although they still are more religious than other countries of the time. Of course, that partially comes because of my own background, but also because it has always been a deeply religious country. Only now there is a strong state religion and several branches of Christianity are banned. There have been initial meetings between British and Dutch representatives, but the most official meetings have been between members of the new embassies in France and Germany. There haven't yet been high-level talks, and there still is a lot to be worked out before that will happen. The Anglo-Dutch relations were pretty awful, and they have fought quite a few wars. The most recent will be mentioned soon, but there were plenty more. And of course, a lot of colonial competition. The German army has been thrown into disarray because their whole plan came crashing down. They're currently trying to reorganise, but that will take time. So, until then, there remains a huge military concentration just over the border. Some forces have been drawn south however, and other later waves of troops have instead been sent to the east. There however still is enough of an army facing the Dutch to smash through their border fortresses. After all, there wasn't much that could resist the full might of the Imperial German Army at this time. There are plenty of fortresses in the region, the French for instance have the fortresses around Verdun while the Germans have Metz (powerful enough to still be a major obstacle thirty years later). Plan XVII however remains in full effect and has seen initial successes (at the cost of some losses, at the 17th, the Germans start to really fight back and bring their heavy guns to bear. After that, it becomes truly awful to be a French soldier. The Germans are getting some extra reinforcements here, so it will be a real bloodbath without any of the lessons of the war being learnt. The terrain however also isn't as good, and the front is relatively short, which gives the potential for a stalemate. Both sides will need a reserve in case the Dutch prove treacherous, but the Dutch army is only a little stronger than the Belgian was at the start of the war (same in numbers, better in equipment and training). It can hold fortresses and slow things down, but it lacks the size to be really relevant offensively. That can only change when more manpower is brought in. The Netherlands here are the: Republiek der Vierentwintig Verenigde Nederlanden (although seven of those Netherlands aren't all that low, and are on other continents). If the Dutch get invaded, they will immediately have to give full access to an ally. They have roughly half a million soldiers in the mainland, of which a large part is positioned to hold the string of fortresses around all borders. They just can't hold for very long against armies of millions, and will need the support of an ally, which would mean either the French or the Germans. The British were already being accused of treachery when they didn't join the war right away, the French had been given the impression that they would. Things now are a little more complicated, but the same still applies and the British did give guarantees about protecting the northern coast. Guarantees that would get complicated if they don't just have to stop the German navy.
a) That sounds ominous, although acceptance of Russia as European has always been a bit patchy.
b) It would partly depend on the size and character of the Dutch army. One of my source books say that Belgium army was only ~43,000 regulars and 117,000 reserves. That's definitely not enough to delay the Germans long, especially since they have a much longer border to defend and does seem a very small force for such a powerful state, unless military tensions and the preceived continental threat is a lot lower OTL. However is that ~160,000 the regular army before reserves are mobilised or including such reserves? [Notice you say half a million further down but again is that regulars or including reserves?] If the latter then yes they would need aid, although powerful modern fortresses could delay matters somewhat. Plus that would really cause problems for the HSFs. If the former and say there is twice as many reserves to moblise then the Dutch could probably put up a hell of fight for a while but ultimately would be worn down without outside aid.
c) So there are 7 component republics from outside Europe. As opposed to them being colonies. Would expect most of those to be in S America and S Africa although could have something in the DEI and possibly Tasmania? Has that proved practical with the technology of the time as even with telegrams it would make it difficult to have members for those regions to keep in touch with home affairs while in a Parliament in the Netherlands. Or am I misreading and their more like the British dominions?
a) It's been patchy yes, and there have been plenty of claims that they're not really white. b) I fear that I made a mistake in the size of the Belgian army then  The Dutch army is half a million (including reserves) in the European Provinces. The regulars are 150k, so not nearly enough. There are more abroad, but it doesn't do much good to have hundreds of thousands of troops on the other side of the planet when you're getting invaded. Of course, given the size of the navy, there have been quite a few surplus naval guns in the past, which the army really likes to get its hands on... c) There indeed are seven overseas provinces. Transvaal, Kaap de Goede Hoop, Bloemfontein (South Africa), Nieuw-Holland, Windhaven, Nieuw-Vlaanderen (South America) and Kanarië (Canaries). They basically send delegations to The Hague. These delegations are elected by the local estates, like in other provinces. More recently, there has also come a more regular parliament that's becoming more and more important. This is elected by district for six-year terms (and is made a lot easier by the telegraph). Naturally, there are lots of difficulties with the whole system. There is a movement towards proportional representation, but as you can imagine, that is meeting lots of issues. Nice update raunchel . The British and Germans will pay a lot of attention to this Netherlands naval exercise as they can learn a lot of the naval power of the Netherlands by observing it.
That might depend on how close they can get to it and how much detail they can gather. Some general ideas of numbers and size of ships but gun sizes, armour, speed and less observable issues such as quality of men and equipment are always going to be difficult to tell.
There is also the problem with the current international tensions that it could be seen as an aggressive move, especially I fear by Britain given the close proximity of the western Dutch territories and the unfriendly tone Jakoba displayed to the British ambassador in Berlin. Even more so if there is no parallel mission to London and the British hear rumours about the Dutch talking with Germany about allowing access through their territory. A further complication is that if the GF has gone to Scapa as OTL the British forces in the Channel fleet, largely pre-dreadnoughts, would be heavily outclassed.
It's always difficult to find the right balance between showing strength and being seen as overly aggressive, especially when there already is a lot of distrust. The Channel Fleet would indeed be vastly outclassed, and from Scapa, the Grand Fleet can't move quickly enough to intervene. Of course, they have their own advantages, but their basing is in the wrong place, so to say. So it indeed is an excellent climate to foster further paranoia. Berlin, August 20, 1914
Dear Father, Thank you so much for your prayers and advice. It hurts, but faith is what allows me to persevere in my duties. Karel is in God’s hands, and all my trust is in Him. So many things are happening now, and I barely have the time to write it all. We visited the opera, and I must say, I was moved to tears by the exquisite music and song. It appears that the Germans aren’t as backwards as we thought at first, the music was written by the court opera’s conductor! The fighting is continuing at the German-French border, and I’ve heard that the Germans will soon launch their counter-attack under the command of the crown prince of Bavaria. It seems to still be a kingdom, but somehow, they are below the emperor in a way that simply seems odd. They didn’t even fight hard for it, but I couldn’t ask more as the discussion moved on to the Russian offensive that started today! There is much worrying about there not being many men in the east, as most was sent west and there appears to be a massive chaos on our border. Concerning this, there have been further requests from several parties for us to allow their army free passage. Uncle Sytze told them that such things just aren’t possible, which led to tempers rising. At some point, I even feared that the German chancellor might strike him! Fortunately, I was able to calm feelings, and in a private meeting afterwards, assured the chancellor that our government is considering it. I also told him that our railways don’t meet, so that would be immensely troublesome. This little discussion led to an agreement to make work of connecting the railways and telegraph lines. Uncle Sytze agreed to this, as did I. We need a way to quickly gain reinforcements in case the French proof treacherous, while we also have to be careful to not make an invasion too easy for the Germans. We also discussed a few other matters, including any offers of territorial adjustments in a post-war situation, which I of course said would only ever be relevant should there be such a thing. I’m beginning to worry for Uncle Sytze however. He seems to be constantly on-edge and on several occasions, he has lashed out. At the same time, he complains of exhaustion. As we are only a small embassy, this has led to more and more work having to be done by me. There also was a meeting with the three Dutch embassies from this world, where Uncle Sytze could fortunately preside. In it, a preliminary agreement was made to grant citizenship rights to any citizens of those countries within Germany, and guaranteeing their right to their own religion for now. Of course, the Estates General still have to agree to such a thing. But for now, we have taken guardianship over these people. I however don’t trust them sufficiently, and recommended that we don’t make use of them for any negotiations. I have also encountered the staff of the English embassy, as we were invited to have dinner there. Uncle Sytze felt unwell, so I had to go, accompanied only by colonel van Speyk. He however only speaks Dutch, which makes me wonder about why he was selected as part of our small mission. Sir Edward Goschen is an elderly man, but he appears mostly calm and friendly. He even complimented me on my English, although he was curious about some of the words I used. I had wanted to speak to his daughter-in-law, but unfortunately, duty came first. He pressed me about our position regarding Germany, and I got the feeling that he is worried about our presence at Kales and beyond. He also expressed that his government would prefer us to remain neutral, and from the way he phrased things, I started to believe that they are somewhat aligned with the French in this conflict. Have you heard anything about French activities on the border? If they begin to threaten you, I fear treachery from the English. On several occasions, he asked about our fleet, and despite his demeanor, I could see that others were in fact worried about its presence. Naturally, I told them that our fleet is the finest in the world and mentioned our splendid victories won over them in 1874, and naturally also mentioned your presence at Margate. I however assured them that since that war, we have been able to continue in the friendship that fits great nations and that the disagreements concerning the Indian trade were resolved. But I could see that they, and especially the naval attaché, were shaken by the very idea of naval defeat. I appear to have underestimated the effects that would have. There has been a most fortunate distraction from the ongoing bleakness of war. While I was in the zoo, I had the good luck to meet a lady, someone who actually works as a journalist! Can you believe it? She has shown me much kindness and gave me a tour of the area, and afterwards, she took me to a small café where we had some tea and truly amazing cake. It was wonderful to have some sort of diversion, and, if I can admit it, it did me good to not have to be as careful as when I represent our country’s interests. I have decided to take her on as a secretary, as work just keeps mounting. In conversation with a navy captain, I was told about a so-called Taschenbuch der Kriegsflotten, and naturally, I gave Karen money to purchase an edition. The most recent she could find is from 1913, but should provide more information on the naval strengths we may find here. It is being sent to the admiralty, where I hope that it will provide us with much information. Tomorrow, I’ve been invited to a private audience with the emperor, and will naturally inform you about anything that happens. Uncle Sytze has expressed worries that I might be given too many responsibilities, but I believe that, God willing, I will be able to do my duty. Your faithful daughter, Jakoba Antwerpen, August 20, 1914
Dearest Jakoba, It fills me with pride to learn that you are able to accept the passing of the man you loved and I pray that you will be able to find new love once you have returned from your mission. It however worries me that you have to take over some of your uncle’s duties, and I recommend that you ask him to ask for more personnel. It’s simply not healthy for you to work this much. At least, you have had the good fortune to meet someone you can spend ladylike time with. I urge you to be careful with the emperor, and other such figures. Royalty often believe that they can afford liberties with young women, and sometimes even use the threat of their position for such purposes. You must maintain your dignity, even if it comes at a cost to our nation. Whatever happens, keep your safety in mind. For now, we remain at peace, but I don’t know for how long. The decision has been made to censor newspapers and magazines, in order to stop speculations of less patriotic elements and authorities have also put an end to a petition circulating among the fleet, demanding war with Japan. An investigation is underway, and as soon as things here are put into order, a fleet will be despatched. In two days, we will start a major fleet exercise, mostly meant as a demonstration of strength, not only to potential enemies, but also to our own men. I will now return to my duties and pray for the strength we will need in the coming days. Your loving father, Johan Rots
Interesting information. Even assuming some patriotic bluster possibly the Dutch are a serious rival to the British in TTL and this plus the fact they have defeated Britain in 1874 and by the sound of it attacked/occupied Margate for a while will be a serious concern for a Britain used to and heavily reliant on naval superiority and currently being threatened by the German HSF, As I said to Lordroel there is the danger, especially with her attitude and the size and proximity of the Dutch fleet to the British homeland there is the danger this would be seen as too aggressive and threatening. Coupled with knowledge about the extensive Dutch empire and their clashes with their Japanese ally this is going to be looking like a very dangerous position for Britain. I fear both nations could blunder into conflict.
Britain isn't engaged in the current conflict but there could easily be tension and possibly clashes over naval movements, especially near the eastern end of the Channel and the approaches to the Thames estuary. Also if its seeking to protect freedom of trade in the Channel [aka keeping the German forces from French ports] there's the danger of some incident like the Russian attack on British trawlers in 1905 which could escalate into something very badly.
We are only seeing this from the points of view of a father and daughter but hopefully the Dutch are sending ambassadors to other nations as well?
The Dutch indeed are a serious rival, and have won their fair share of wars. In 1874 there was a major naval battle off Margate, where the father served as a young boy (it's really striking how big the technological difference is if you look at what the senior officers learned to work with early in their careers and what they used later on. It was a completely different paradigm). Of course, some of it is blustering (no one ever talks about the defeats after all, even nowadays. Let alone in an era of true nationalism). But these Dutch are a proper great power, and in their world, they were the foremost naval power (however, not to the extent that the RN was in ours). This however has left them with a slight bit of paranoia... There is another mission that's been sent to France, and planning is underway for more missions to go to other countries. It's not a major theme, but there is a massive disruption in the Dutch government that also explains why the German embassy is laughably small. That, and most of their experienced diplomats are gone. The English posting for instance has always been a very prestigious one, so there are political games being played about it while it would actually be vital to send someone quickly. Another issue is that internal communications have been turned into a disaster, with more than a quarter of all provinces cut off, including some of the wealthier and more populous ones. |
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raunchel
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Post by raunchel on Nov 19, 2018 13:44:33 GMT
Berlin, August 23, 1914
Dear Father,
How are things there? And how is Mother? I haven’t received a letter from her in a while now. There however is very happy news that I’m glad to share. In the aftermath of our talks about the telegraph connections, it has been decided that we can also make use of the German Translatlantic cables. I naturally sent a telegram to Greetje, and there now is an actual reply! She is doing well, and so is the baby. New-Holland remains mostly calm, although she expressed that there have been tensions with a large North-American state. I will write her a little more about how things are here, but because the lines aren’t Dutch, we can’t fully trust the privacy of what is being sent.
From Uncle Sytze, I heard that there have been offers from the French as well, should we give them our support. They offer us East-Frisia and parts of western Africa that are being held by the Germans. I’m not certain about this, but it came from The Hague, so we can act with full information.
In conversation with the Germans, I informed them about our naval exercises, and have received an invitation for a private audience with the emperor in response. Naturally, I will keep your words in mind, but assure you that virtue as always remains the highest duty.
I have again spoken to the English, and informed them about our upcoming exercises as well. Sir Edward appeared to be unaware of them, so I urged him to warn London, so it would not be taken as a threat at this delicate time. I still pray for your safety, it would be typical of them to attempt to use such a moment to lay a trap.
The amount of work becomes greater and greater, as it seems that every office wants to speak to us, in addition to many corporations which desire trade or other such things. This has left me with unfortunately little time for anything else, and Karen also is incredibly busy with all the writing that she has to do. Last night, she even spent the night with me, to avoid having to go home on her own after it became so late.
One such thing that is being discussed now, and about which Uncle Sytze has requested support from the Hague, is the matter of patents. As is to be expected, things are quite different here, and we want to avoid all such issues. I have proposed a mechanism to automatically recognise patents as applying in both the German empire and in the Netherlands, which has met with some approval although others are angry about it. It has also been suggested that it might be better to create a system between all countries, but that will require an international convention which will be hard to accomplish at this time.
In the ongoing war, the French invasion has been thrown into disarray and full retreat. The German army is in pursuit, but I have been told that the local forces won’t be enough to force a decision. In the east, the German army however has suffered defeat, and is withdrawing along the Baltic coast with heavy casualties. I have also heard rumours about actions of the German army in a Russian town that they have taken, called Kalisz. It appears that there has been a massacre, but when I asked about it, I was told that there was shooting from the local Polish population. That seems logical to me, we all know the Poles to be a stubborn and proud people, ill-fitted for foreign occupation.
For now, I pray for peace and your health, hoping that I will be able to tell you more in my next letter.
Your faithful daughter,
Jakoba
Battlecruiser Geloof, August 25, 1914
Dearest Jakoba,
It’s war. It has to be. The fleet exercises were going well, we simulated maneuvers and also did practice gunfire. Let me tell you, the combined fire of three dozen battleships is a true spectacle, surely enough to show the ships from various nations shadowing us that we are not to be trifled with.
But tonight, an attempt was made to disrupt our operations. We were running in darkness, to practice maneuvering without visual references, when the night was lit up by an explosion striking the Willem van Gulik. The destroyer was part of the port screen, and quickly sank. Naturally, all lights were turned on, and in that direction, two unknown ships were spotted. I am happy to be able to tell you that both were destroyed in short order.
Survivors were retrieved, both from our ship and the foreign ones. One was an Englishman, the Falmouth, the other a German, the Stettin, according to survivors. Based on what we know of them, both ships were capable of launching torpedoes, but crewmen from both deny launching. Admiral Kuypers however believe that they are lying, and are now trying to blame the other for the loss of life.
New orders are to sink any armed foreign vessel that approaches and refuses to obey our commands. I have suggested Psalm 9 to all ships in my squadron, words speaking of the Lord’s steadfast support for the righteous. I pray that truth may be revealed and for your continued safety.
Psalm 9:3 When mine enemies are turned back, they shall fall and perish at Thy presence.
Your loving father,
Johan Rots
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lordroel
Administrator
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Post by lordroel on Nov 19, 2018 15:31:49 GMT
Berlin, August 23, 1914
Dear Father, How are things there? And how is Mother? I haven’t received a letter from her in a while now. There however is very happy news that I’m glad to share. In the aftermath of our talks about the telegraph connections, it has been decided that we can also make use of the German Translatlantic cables. I naturally sent a telegram to Greetje, and there now is an actual reply! She is doing well, and so is the baby. New-Holland remains mostly calm, although she expressed that there have been tensions with a large North-American state. I will write her a little more about how things are here, but because the lines aren’t Dutch, we can’t fully trust the privacy of what is being sent. From Uncle Sytze, I heard that there have been offers from the French as well, should we give them our support. They offer us East-Frisia and parts of western Africa that are being held by the Germans. I’m not certain about this, but it came from The Hague, so we can act with full information. I also informed them about our naval exercises, and have received an invitation for a private audience with the emperor in response. Naturally, I will keep your words in mind, but assure you that virtue as always remains the highest duty. I have again spoken to the English, and informed them about our upcoming exercises as well. Sir Edward appeared to be unaware of them, so I urged him to warn London, so it would not be taken as a threat at this delicate time. I still pray for your safety, it would be typical of them to attempt to use such a moment to lay a trap. The amount of work becomes greater and greater, as it seems that every office wants to speak to us, in addition to many corporations which desire trade or other such things. This has left me with unfortunately little time for anything else, and Karen also is incredibly busy with all the writing that she has to do. Last night, she even spent the night with me, to avoid having to go home on her own after it became so late. One such thing that is being discussed now, and about which Uncle Sytze has requested support from the Hague, is the matter of patents. As is to be expected, things are quite different here, and we want to avoid all such issues. I have proposed a mechanism to automatically recognise patents as applying in both the German empire and in the Netherlands, which has met with some approval although others are angry about it. It has also been suggested that it might be better to create a system between all countries, but that will require an international convention which will be hard to accomplish at this time. In the ongoing war, the French invasion has been thrown into disarray and full retreat. The German army is in pursuit, but I have been told that the local forces won’t be enough to force a decision. In the east, the German army however has suffered defeat, and is withdrawing along the Baltic coast with heavy casualties. I have also heard rumours about actions of the German army in a Russian town that they have taken, called Kalisz. It appears that there has been a massacre, but when I asked about it, I was told that there was shooting from the local Polish population. That seems logical to me, we all know the Poles to be a stubborn and proud people, ill-fitted for foreign occupation. For now, I pray for peace and your health, hoping that I will be able to tell you more in my next letter. Your faithful daughter, Jakoba Battlecruiser Geloof, August 25, 1914
Dearest Jakoba, It’s war. It has to be. The fleet exercises were going well, we simulated maneuvers and also did practice gunfire. Let me tell you, the combined fire of three dozen battleships is a true spectacle, surely enough to show the ships from various nations shadowing us that we are not to be trifled with. But tonight, an attempt was made to disrupt our operations. We were running in darkness, to practice maneuvering without visual references, when the night was lit up by an explosion striking the Willem van Gulik. The destroyer was part of the port screen, and quickly sank. Naturally, all lights were turned on, and in that direction, two unknown ships were spotted. I am happy to be able to tell you that both were destroyed in short order. Survivors were retrieved, both from our ship and the foreign ones. One was an Englishman, the Falmouth, the other a German, the Stettin, according to survivors. Based on what we know of them, both ships were capable of launching torpedoes, but crewmen from both deny launching. Admiral Kuypers however believe that they are lying, and are now trying to blame the other for the loss of life. New orders are to sink any armed foreign vessel that approaches and refuses to obey our commands. I have suggested Psalm 9 to all ships in my squadron, words speaking of the Lord’s steadfast support for the righteous. I pray that truth may be revealed and for your continued safety. Psalm 9:3 When mine enemies are turned back, they shall fall and perish at Thy presence. Your loving father, Johan Rots Good update raunchel. So more than three dozen battleships the republic has, stevep might be able to answer if the Germans ore even the British had so many in 1914. Also, a British ore a German destroyer sunk, might it be they where targeting each other and instead a Republic ship was sunk, i wonder who gets the blame and why anybody would want war with a country as powerful as the Republic. |
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stevep
Fleet admiral
Posts: 24,835
Likes: 13,224
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Post by stevep on Nov 19, 2018 15:35:48 GMT
Berlin, August 23, 1914
Dear Father, How are things there? And how is Mother? I haven’t received a letter from her in a while now. There however is very happy news that I’m glad to share. In the aftermath of our talks about the telegraph connections, it has been decided that we can also make use of the German Translatlantic cables. I naturally sent a telegram to Greetje, and there now is an actual reply! She is doing well, and so is the baby. New-Holland remains mostly calm, although she expressed that there have been tensions with a large North-American state. I will write her a little more about how things are here, but because the lines aren’t Dutch, we can’t fully trust the privacy of what is being sent. From Uncle Sytze, I heard that there have been offers from the French as well, should we give them our support. They offer us East-Frisia and parts of western Africa that are being held by the Germans. I’m not certain about this, but it came from The Hague, so we can act with full information. I also informed them about our naval exercises, and have received an invitation for a private audience with the emperor in response. Naturally, I will keep your words in mind, but assure you that virtue as always remains the highest duty. I have again spoken to the English, and informed them about our upcoming exercises as well. Sir Edward appeared to be unaware of them, so I urged him to warn London, so it would not be taken as a threat at this delicate time. I still pray for your safety, it would be typical of them to attempt to use such a moment to lay a trap. The amount of work becomes greater and greater, as it seems that every office wants to speak to us, in addition to many corporations which desire trade or other such things. This has left me with unfortunately little time for anything else, and Karen also is incredibly busy with all the writing that she has to do. Last night, she even spent the night with me, to avoid having to go home on her own after it became so late. One such thing that is being discussed now, and about which Uncle Sytze has requested support from the Hague, is the matter of patents. As is to be expected, things are quite different here, and we want to avoid all such issues. I have proposed a mechanism to automatically recognise patents as applying in both the German empire and in the Netherlands, which has met with some approval although others are angry about it. It has also been suggested that it might be better to create a system between all countries, but that will require an international convention which will be hard to accomplish at this time. In the ongoing war, the French invasion has been thrown into disarray and full retreat. The German army is in pursuit, but I have been told that the local forces won’t be enough to force a decision. In the east, the German army however has suffered defeat, and is withdrawing along the Baltic coast with heavy casualties. I have also heard rumours about actions of the German army in a Russian town that they have taken, called Kalisz. It appears that there has been a massacre, but when I asked about it, I was told that there was shooting from the local Polish population. That seems logical to me, we all know the Poles to be a stubborn and proud people, ill-fitted for foreign occupation. For now, I pray for peace and your health, hoping that I will be able to tell you more in my next letter. Your faithful daughter, Jakoba Battlecruiser Geloof, August 25, 1914
Dearest Jakoba, It’s war. It has to be. The fleet exercises were going well, we simulated maneuvers and also did practice gunfire. Let me tell you, the combined fire of three dozen battleships is a true spectacle, surely enough to show the ships from various nations shadowing us that we are not to be trifled with. But tonight, an attempt was made to disrupt our operations. We were running in darkness, to practice maneuvering without visual references, when the night was lit up by an explosion striking the Willem van Gulik. The destroyer was part of the port screen, and quickly sank. Naturally, all lights were turned on, and in that direction, two unknown ships were spotted. I am happy to be able to tell you that both were destroyed in short order. Survivors were retrieved, both from our ship and the foreign ones. One was an Englishman, the Falmouth, the other a German, the Stettin, according to survivors. Based on what we know of them, both ships were capable of launching torpedoes, but crewmen from both deny launching. Admiral Kuypers however believe that they are lying, and are now trying to blame the other for the loss of life. New orders are to sink any armed foreign vessel that approaches and refuses to obey our commands. I have suggested Psalm 9 to all ships in my squadron, words speaking of the Lord’s steadfast support for the righteous. I pray that truth may be revealed and for your continued safety. Psalm 9:3 When mine enemies are turned back, they shall fall and perish at Thy presence. Your loving father, Johan Rots
Thanks for the reply in the earlier post. In this one by the emperor do you mean the German emperor? Only you had been talking about an approach from the French at this point and their a republic at the moment, unless Jakoba is getting really confused.
I'm guessing that the German defeat in the east is the initial one prior to their victories at Tannenberg?
The comment about the telegram exchange with Greetje - a sister? - suggests that in the Dutch world there isn't a large nation in N America?
Actually the sinking of the Dutch ship could be from a mine as a fair number were being laid, especially by the Germans OTL. If it is from one of the ships it's probably from the German ship, if they know a British ship is nearby and of the distrust between the two nations in the other world. Britain has no incentive to pick a fight given the uncertainty created by the arrival of this huge empire. They are however going to have to give a strong reaction themselves as the sinking of a British warship, especially so close to Britain itself. Given the tension of the time and the importance of the fleet to Britain's security but I hope that a war between Britain and the Netherlands doesn't result. However given how mistrustful the Dutch in this world are I fear that's all too likely.
Also it depends on what Johan means by approaches as those exercises are in one of the most crowded shipping lanes in the world as well as a key area in the current period of high tension even before the Dutch arrived.
If by 3 dozen battleships he means all dreadnoughts or battlecruisers I'm not sure even the RN had that many at this point in time.
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stevep
Fleet admiral
Posts: 24,835
Likes: 13,224
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Post by stevep on Nov 19, 2018 15:50:49 GMT
Berlin, August 23, 1914
Dear Father, How are things there? And how is Mother? I haven’t received a letter from her in a while now. There however is very happy news that I’m glad to share. In the aftermath of our talks about the telegraph connections, it has been decided that we can also make use of the German Translatlantic cables. I naturally sent a telegram to Greetje, and there now is an actual reply! She is doing well, and so is the baby. New-Holland remains mostly calm, although she expressed that there have been tensions with a large North-American state. I will write her a little more about how things are here, but because the lines aren’t Dutch, we can’t fully trust the privacy of what is being sent. From Uncle Sytze, I heard that there have been offers from the French as well, should we give them our support. They offer us East-Frisia and parts of western Africa that are being held by the Germans. I’m not certain about this, but it came from The Hague, so we can act with full information. I also informed them about our naval exercises, and have received an invitation for a private audience with the emperor in response. Naturally, I will keep your words in mind, but assure you that virtue as always remains the highest duty. I have again spoken to the English, and informed them about our upcoming exercises as well. Sir Edward appeared to be unaware of them, so I urged him to warn London, so it would not be taken as a threat at this delicate time. I still pray for your safety, it would be typical of them to attempt to use such a moment to lay a trap. The amount of work becomes greater and greater, as it seems that every office wants to speak to us, in addition to many corporations which desire trade or other such things. This has left me with unfortunately little time for anything else, and Karen also is incredibly busy with all the writing that she has to do. Last night, she even spent the night with me, to avoid having to go home on her own after it became so late. One such thing that is being discussed now, and about which Uncle Sytze has requested support from the Hague, is the matter of patents. As is to be expected, things are quite different here, and we want to avoid all such issues. I have proposed a mechanism to automatically recognise patents as applying in both the German empire and in the Netherlands, which has met with some approval although others are angry about it. It has also been suggested that it might be better to create a system between all countries, but that will require an international convention which will be hard to accomplish at this time. In the ongoing war, the French invasion has been thrown into disarray and full retreat. The German army is in pursuit, but I have been told that the local forces won’t be enough to force a decision. In the east, the German army however has suffered defeat, and is withdrawing along the Baltic coast with heavy casualties. I have also heard rumours about actions of the German army in a Russian town that they have taken, called Kalisz. It appears that there has been a massacre, but when I asked about it, I was told that there was shooting from the local Polish population. That seems logical to me, we all know the Poles to be a stubborn and proud people, ill-fitted for foreign occupation. For now, I pray for peace and your health, hoping that I will be able to tell you more in my next letter. Your faithful daughter, Jakoba Battlecruiser Geloof, August 25, 1914
Dearest Jakoba, It’s war. It has to be. The fleet exercises were going well, we simulated maneuvers and also did practice gunfire. Let me tell you, the combined fire of three dozen battleships is a true spectacle, surely enough to show the ships from various nations shadowing us that we are not to be trifled with. But tonight, an attempt was made to disrupt our operations. We were running in darkness, to practice maneuvering without visual references, when the night was lit up by an explosion striking the Willem van Gulik. The destroyer was part of the port screen, and quickly sank. Naturally, all lights were turned on, and in that direction, two unknown ships were spotted. I am happy to be able to tell you that both were destroyed in short order. Survivors were retrieved, both from our ship and the foreign ones. One was an Englishman, the Falmouth, the other a German, the Stettin, according to survivors. Based on what we know of them, both ships were capable of launching torpedoes, but crewmen from both deny launching. Admiral Kuypers however believe that they are lying, and are now trying to blame the other for the loss of life. New orders are to sink any armed foreign vessel that approaches and refuses to obey our commands. I have suggested Psalm 9 to all ships in my squadron, words speaking of the Lord’s steadfast support for the righteous. I pray that truth may be revealed and for your continued safety. Psalm 9:3 When mine enemies are turned back, they shall fall and perish at Thy presence. Your loving father, Johan Rots Good update raunchel . So more than three dozen battleships the republic has, stevep might be able to answer if the Germans ore even the British had so many in 1914. Also, a British ore a German destroyer sunk, might it be they where targeting each other and instead a Republic ship was sunk, i wonder who gets the blame and why anybody would want war with a country as powerful as the Republic.
I actually just replied on this. Checking one of my old source books at the start of the war Germany had 23 pre-dreadnoughts, 15 dreadnoughts with 2 under construction and 4 battle-cruisers with another under construction. Britain had 30 pre-dreads, 24 dreadnoughts with at least the 5 Queen Elizabeth class under construction [it seems to be missing them] as they were started in 1912, 9 battle-cruisers completed and another under construction.
As such if the Dutch force includes only Dreadnoughts and battlecruisers its larger than either fleet. OTL the pre-dreads were largely deployed in secondary areas, the bulk of the forces used at Gallopli, although the Germans used a squadron of 6 I think it was to boost their numbers in what became the Jutland battle. Britain took over some battleships that were being built for other powers and after the Queen's started building the R class of which 8 were planned and only 5 built due to the outbreak of war and two others completed as battlecruisers - OTL Renown and Repulse.
The other thing is if they have 36 capital ships in this exercise then how many others are either elsewhere or simply not available as there's normally at least a few at any point having some maintenance work or simply busy doing other things.
That is another option that the British and German ships or one of was having a pot shot at the other. However their not actually at war at the moment and also torpedoes are pretty short ranged at this date so it would be likely a torpedo would run out of steam before getting anywhere near the Dutch exercise.
Of course since their attacked and sunk both British and German ships and threatening to interfer with other ships, even if only warships in a key area for both powers you could end up with an Anglo-German alliance to sort out the Dutch.  - Not really under the circumstances but its something the Dutch might have to consider.
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lordroel
Administrator
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Post by lordroel on Nov 19, 2018 15:56:14 GMT
Good update raunchel . So more than three dozen battleships the republic has, stevep might be able to answer if the Germans ore even the British had so many in 1914. Also, a British ore a German destroyer sunk, might it be they where targeting each other and instead a Republic ship was sunk, i wonder who gets the blame and why anybody would want war with a country as powerful as the Republic. I actually just replied on this. Checking one of my old source books at the start of the war Germany had 23 pre-dreadnoughts, 15 dreadnoughts with 2 under construction and 4 battle-cruisers with another under construction. Britain had 30 pre-dreads, 24 dreadnoughts with at least the 5 Queen Elizabeth class under construction [it seems to be missing them] as they were started in 1912, 9 battle-cruisers completed and another under construction. As such if the Dutch force includes only Dreadnoughts and battlecruisers its larger than either fleet. OTL the pre-dreads were largely deployed in secondary areas, the bulk of the forces used at Gallopli, although the Germans used a squadron of 6 I think it was to boost their numbers in what became the Jutland battle. Britain took over some battleships that were being built for other powers and after the Queen's started building the R class of which 8 were planned and only 5 built due to the outbreak of war and two others completed as battlecruisers - OTL Renown and Repulse.
The other thing is if they have 36 capital ships in this exercise then how many others are either elsewhere or simply not available as there's normally at least a few at any point having some maintenance work or simply busy doing other things. That is another option that the British and German ships or one of was having a pot shot at the other. However their not actually at war at the moment and also torpedoes are pretty short ranged at this date so it would be likely a torpedo would run out of steam before getting anywhere near the Dutch exercise. Of course since their attacked and sunk both British and German ships and threatening to interfer with other ships, even if only warships in a key area for both powers you could end up with an Anglo-German alliance to sort out the Dutch. - Not really under the circumstances but its something the Dutch might have to consider. Do not know if raunchel is wrong, but the only Stettin i can find is a Königsberg-class light cruiser and also as far as i know, German destroyers in 1914 only where named with numbers and no names. But maybe it is different in the Republic universe and Jakoba does not know that. |
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raunchel
Commander
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Post by raunchel on Nov 19, 2018 15:58:17 GMT
Berlin, August 23, 1914
Dear Father, How are things there? And how is Mother? I haven’t received a letter from her in a while now. There however is very happy news that I’m glad to share. In the aftermath of our talks about the telegraph connections, it has been decided that we can also make use of the German Translatlantic cables. I naturally sent a telegram to Greetje, and there now is an actual reply! She is doing well, and so is the baby. New-Holland remains mostly calm, although she expressed that there have been tensions with a large North-American state. I will write her a little more about how things are here, but because the lines aren’t Dutch, we can’t fully trust the privacy of what is being sent. From Uncle Sytze, I heard that there have been offers from the French as well, should we give them our support. They offer us East-Frisia and parts of western Africa that are being held by the Germans. I’m not certain about this, but it came from The Hague, so we can act with full information. I also informed them about our naval exercises, and have received an invitation for a private audience with the emperor in response. Naturally, I will keep your words in mind, but assure you that virtue as always remains the highest duty. I have again spoken to the English, and informed them about our upcoming exercises as well. Sir Edward appeared to be unaware of them, so I urged him to warn London, so it would not be taken as a threat at this delicate time. I still pray for your safety, it would be typical of them to attempt to use such a moment to lay a trap. The amount of work becomes greater and greater, as it seems that every office wants to speak to us, in addition to many corporations which desire trade or other such things. This has left me with unfortunately little time for anything else, and Karen also is incredibly busy with all the writing that she has to do. Last night, she even spent the night with me, to avoid having to go home on her own after it became so late. One such thing that is being discussed now, and about which Uncle Sytze has requested support from the Hague, is the matter of patents. As is to be expected, things are quite different here, and we want to avoid all such issues. I have proposed a mechanism to automatically recognise patents as applying in both the German empire and in the Netherlands, which has met with some approval although others are angry about it. It has also been suggested that it might be better to create a system between all countries, but that will require an international convention which will be hard to accomplish at this time. In the ongoing war, the French invasion has been thrown into disarray and full retreat. The German army is in pursuit, but I have been told that the local forces won’t be enough to force a decision. In the east, the German army however has suffered defeat, and is withdrawing along the Baltic coast with heavy casualties. I have also heard rumours about actions of the German army in a Russian town that they have taken, called Kalisz. It appears that there has been a massacre, but when I asked about it, I was told that there was shooting from the local Polish population. That seems logical to me, we all know the Poles to be a stubborn and proud people, ill-fitted for foreign occupation. For now, I pray for peace and your health, hoping that I will be able to tell you more in my next letter. Your faithful daughter, Jakoba Battlecruiser Geloof, August 25, 1914
Dearest Jakoba, It’s war. It has to be. The fleet exercises were going well, we simulated maneuvers and also did practice gunfire. Let me tell you, the combined fire of three dozen battleships is a true spectacle, surely enough to show the ships from various nations shadowing us that we are not to be trifled with. But tonight, an attempt was made to disrupt our operations. We were running in darkness, to practice maneuvering without visual references, when the night was lit up by an explosion striking the Willem van Gulik. The destroyer was part of the port screen, and quickly sank. Naturally, all lights were turned on, and in that direction, two unknown ships were spotted. I am happy to be able to tell you that both were destroyed in short order. Survivors were retrieved, both from our ship and the foreign ones. One was an Englishman, the Falmouth, the other a German, the Stettin, according to survivors. Based on what we know of them, both ships were capable of launching torpedoes, but crewmen from both deny launching. Admiral Kuypers however believe that they are lying, and are now trying to blame the other for the loss of life. New orders are to sink any armed foreign vessel that approaches and refuses to obey our commands. I have suggested Psalm 9 to all ships in my squadron, words speaking of the Lord’s steadfast support for the righteous. I pray that truth may be revealed and for your continued safety. Psalm 9:3 When mine enemies are turned back, they shall fall and perish at Thy presence. Your loving father, Johan Rots Good update raunchel . So more than three dozen battleships the republic has, stevep might be able to answer if the Germans ore even the British had so many in 1914. Also, a British ore a German destroyer sunk, might it be they where targeting each other and instead a Republic ship was sunk, i wonder who gets the blame and why anybody would want war with a country as powerful as the Republic. The German and British ships actually were Light Cruisers. But even that doesn't give them much of a chance compared to something equivalent to the Grand Fleet opening fire. Especially when they are surprised as well. Berlin, August 23, 1914
Dear Father, How are things there? And how is Mother? I haven’t received a letter from her in a while now. There however is very happy news that I’m glad to share. In the aftermath of our talks about the telegraph connections, it has been decided that we can also make use of the German Translatlantic cables. I naturally sent a telegram to Greetje, and there now is an actual reply! She is doing well, and so is the baby. New-Holland remains mostly calm, although she expressed that there have been tensions with a large North-American state. I will write her a little more about how things are here, but because the lines aren’t Dutch, we can’t fully trust the privacy of what is being sent. From Uncle Sytze, I heard that there have been offers from the French as well, should we give them our support. They offer us East-Frisia and parts of western Africa that are being held by the Germans. I’m not certain about this, but it came from The Hague, so we can act with full information. I also informed them about our naval exercises, and have received an invitation for a private audience with the emperor in response. Naturally, I will keep your words in mind, but assure you that virtue as always remains the highest duty. I have again spoken to the English, and informed them about our upcoming exercises as well. Sir Edward appeared to be unaware of them, so I urged him to warn London, so it would not be taken as a threat at this delicate time. I still pray for your safety, it would be typical of them to attempt to use such a moment to lay a trap. The amount of work becomes greater and greater, as it seems that every office wants to speak to us, in addition to many corporations which desire trade or other such things. This has left me with unfortunately little time for anything else, and Karen also is incredibly busy with all the writing that she has to do. Last night, she even spent the night with me, to avoid having to go home on her own after it became so late. One such thing that is being discussed now, and about which Uncle Sytze has requested support from the Hague, is the matter of patents. As is to be expected, things are quite different here, and we want to avoid all such issues. I have proposed a mechanism to automatically recognise patents as applying in both the German empire and in the Netherlands, which has met with some approval although others are angry about it. It has also been suggested that it might be better to create a system between all countries, but that will require an international convention which will be hard to accomplish at this time. In the ongoing war, the French invasion has been thrown into disarray and full retreat. The German army is in pursuit, but I have been told that the local forces won’t be enough to force a decision. In the east, the German army however has suffered defeat, and is withdrawing along the Baltic coast with heavy casualties. I have also heard rumours about actions of the German army in a Russian town that they have taken, called Kalisz. It appears that there has been a massacre, but when I asked about it, I was told that there was shooting from the local Polish population. That seems logical to me, we all know the Poles to be a stubborn and proud people, ill-fitted for foreign occupation. For now, I pray for peace and your health, hoping that I will be able to tell you more in my next letter. Your faithful daughter, Jakoba Battlecruiser Geloof, August 25, 1914
Dearest Jakoba, It’s war. It has to be. The fleet exercises were going well, we simulated maneuvers and also did practice gunfire. Let me tell you, the combined fire of three dozen battleships is a true spectacle, surely enough to show the ships from various nations shadowing us that we are not to be trifled with. But tonight, an attempt was made to disrupt our operations. We were running in darkness, to practice maneuvering without visual references, when the night was lit up by an explosion striking the Willem van Gulik. The destroyer was part of the port screen, and quickly sank. Naturally, all lights were turned on, and in that direction, two unknown ships were spotted. I am happy to be able to tell you that both were destroyed in short order. Survivors were retrieved, both from our ship and the foreign ones. One was an Englishman, the Falmouth, the other a German, the Stettin, according to survivors. Based on what we know of them, both ships were capable of launching torpedoes, but crewmen from both deny launching. Admiral Kuypers however believe that they are lying, and are now trying to blame the other for the loss of life. New orders are to sink any armed foreign vessel that approaches and refuses to obey our commands. I have suggested Psalm 9 to all ships in my squadron, words speaking of the Lord’s steadfast support for the righteous. I pray that truth may be revealed and for your continued safety. Psalm 9:3 When mine enemies are turned back, they shall fall and perish at Thy presence. Your loving father, Johan Rots
Thanks for the reply in the earlier post. In this one by the emperor do you mean the German emperor? Only you had been talking about an approach from the French at this point and their a republic at the moment, unless Jakoba is getting really confused.
I'm guessing that the German defeat in the east is the initial one prior to their victories at Tannenberg?
The comment about the telegram exchange with Greetje - a sister? - suggests that in the Dutch world there isn't a large nation in N America?
Actually the sinking of the Dutch ship could be from a mine as a fair number were being laid, especially by the Germans OTL. If it is from one of the ships it's probably from the German ship, if they know a British ship is nearby and of the distrust between the two nations in the other world. Britain has no incentive to pick a fight given the uncertainty created by the arrival of this huge empire. They are however going to have to give a strong reaction themselves as the sinking of a British warship, especially so close to Britain itself. Given the tension of the time and the importance of the fleet to Britain's security but I hope that a war between Britain and the Netherlands doesn't result. However given how mistrustful the Dutch in this world are I fear that's all too likely.
Also it depends on what Johan means by approaches as those exercises are in one of the most crowded shipping lanes in the world as well as a key area in the current period of high tension even before the Dutch arrived.
If by 3 dozen battleships he means all dreadnoughts or battlecruisers I'm not sure even the RN had that many at this point in time.
The emperor indeed is the German one, it's the only one Jakoba has met so far. It however seems that I have mis-edited some bits, which I'll change as soon as this post is ready. The German defeat in the east indeed is in the lead-up to Tannenberg. But no one knows about that. All they see is the Russian juggernaut coming, along with all sorts of horrible tales. Greetje indeed is the sister, who lives with her husband and child in what would be Brazil in our world. In theirs, there is no major united state in North America. There were independent states, but they were a little more divided. Including former Dutch colonies of course. I won't say much about what really happened, but suffice to say, you really don't want something like this to be happening when there already is a lot of mistrust and tension. With approaching, Johan means ships that close in and then don't obey orders to get out of the way. There has been a bit of a paranoia attack. Not as bad as the Russian one, but a ship already got sunk, and there is little intention to let it happen again, especially not to a more important one. Of course, no one will be happy with their ships being sunk, and that will lead to further issues. And this is one of the situations where the political infighting should really get resolved, because at moments like this, you really want an ambassador in place. The battleships aren't all dreadnoughts and battlecruisers. There also is a bunch of predreads that's seen as not too obsolete yet to be taken along for major fleet actions (and to show a greater number, especially because some units remain overseas). |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Nov 19, 2018 16:04:24 GMT
I actually just replied on this. Checking one of my old source books at the start of the war Germany had 23 pre-dreadnoughts, 15 dreadnoughts with 2 under construction and 4 battle-cruisers with another under construction. Britain had 30 pre-dreads, 24 dreadnoughts with at least the 5 Queen Elizabeth class under construction [it seems to be missing them] as they were started in 1912, 9 battle-cruisers completed and another under construction. As such if the Dutch force includes only Dreadnoughts and battlecruisers its larger than either fleet. OTL the pre-dreads were largely deployed in secondary areas, the bulk of the forces used at Gallopli, although the Germans used a squadron of 6 I think it was to boost their numbers in what became the Jutland battle. Britain took over some battleships that were being built for other powers and after the Queen's started building the R class of which 8 were planned and only 5 built due to the outbreak of war and two others completed as battlecruisers - OTL Renown and Repulse.
The other thing is if they have 36 capital ships in this exercise then how many others are either elsewhere or simply not available as there's normally at least a few at any point having some maintenance work or simply busy doing other things. That is another option that the British and German ships or one of was having a pot shot at the other. However their not actually at war at the moment and also torpedoes are pretty short ranged at this date so it would be likely a torpedo would run out of steam before getting anywhere near the Dutch exercise. Of course since their attacked and sunk both British and German ships and threatening to interfer with other ships, even if only warships in a key area for both powers you could end up with an Anglo-German alliance to sort out the Dutch. - Not really under the circumstances but its something the Dutch might have to consider. Do not know if raunchel is wrong, but the only Stettin i can find is a Königsberg-class light cruiser and also as far as i know, German destroyers in 1914 only where named with numbers and no names. But maybe it is different in the Republic universe and Jakoba does not know that.
That is a good point I should have thought of. Possibly it was actually the light cruiser and Johan has been misinformed that it was a destroyer. Could be difficult to tell in the dark and confusion and with the ship already sunk/sinking. Quick check on Wiki and that does seem to be the only German warship of that name. [Also a couple of steamships and an ice-breaker] Britain named its destroyers but I know in WWII and probably also in WWI that they only had numbers.
PS - ninjed by Raunchel as she's already replied.
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raunchel
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Post by raunchel on Nov 19, 2018 16:06:17 GMT
Good update raunchel . So more than three dozen battleships the republic has, stevep might be able to answer if the Germans ore even the British had so many in 1914. Also, a British ore a German destroyer sunk, might it be they where targeting each other and instead a Republic ship was sunk, i wonder who gets the blame and why anybody would want war with a country as powerful as the Republic.
I actually just replied on this. Checking one of my old source books at the start of the war Germany had 23 pre-dreadnoughts, 15 dreadnoughts with 2 under construction and 4 battle-cruisers with another under construction. Britain had 30 pre-dreads, 24 dreadnoughts with at least the 5 Queen Elizabeth class under construction [it seems to be missing them] as they were started in 1912, 9 battle-cruisers completed and another under construction.
As such if the Dutch force includes only Dreadnoughts and battlecruisers its larger than either fleet. OTL the pre-dreads were largely deployed in secondary areas, the bulk of the forces used at Gallopli, although the Germans used a squadron of 6 I think it was to boost their numbers in what became the Jutland battle. Britain took over some battleships that were being built for other powers and after the Queen's started building the R class of which 8 were planned and only 5 built due to the outbreak of war and two others completed as battlecruisers - OTL Renown and Repulse.
The other thing is if they have 36 capital ships in this exercise then how many others are either elsewhere or simply not available as there's normally at least a few at any point having some maintenance work or simply busy doing other things.
That is another option that the British and German ships or one of was having a pot shot at the other. However their not actually at war at the moment and also torpedoes are pretty short ranged at this date so it would be likely a torpedo would run out of steam before getting anywhere near the Dutch exercise.
Of course since their attacked and sunk both British and German ships and threatening to interfer with other ships, even if only warships in a key area for both powers you could end up with an Anglo-German alliance to sort out the Dutch. - Not really under the circumstances but its something the Dutch might have to consider.
The Dutch fleet is large, yes, but not large enough to have thirty-six modern battleships and battlecruisers in one place. Not yet at least. There is work being done in the naval yards for obvious reasons The treasury might not like it, but the navy has its ways to get its way when it's budget time. Much to the army's regret. Diplomatically, it indeed isn't the most intelligent thing to do to start shooting neutrals, but if everyone was perfectly rational, they wouldn't have gotten stuck in WW1. An Anglo-German-Austro-Hungarian(-minor powers) alliance against the Dutch might be fun however, with the Dutch allied with the French and Russians and some minor powers as well. Or the world might find common ground to end the madness of one war by all ganging up on the newcomers! I actually just replied on this. Checking one of my old source books at the start of the war Germany had 23 pre-dreadnoughts, 15 dreadnoughts with 2 under construction and 4 battle-cruisers with another under construction. Britain had 30 pre-dreads, 24 dreadnoughts with at least the 5 Queen Elizabeth class under construction [it seems to be missing them] as they were started in 1912, 9 battle-cruisers completed and another under construction. As such if the Dutch force includes only Dreadnoughts and battlecruisers its larger than either fleet. OTL the pre-dreads were largely deployed in secondary areas, the bulk of the forces used at Gallopli, although the Germans used a squadron of 6 I think it was to boost their numbers in what became the Jutland battle. Britain took over some battleships that were being built for other powers and after the Queen's started building the R class of which 8 were planned and only 5 built due to the outbreak of war and two others completed as battlecruisers - OTL Renown and Repulse.
The other thing is if they have 36 capital ships in this exercise then how many others are either elsewhere or simply not available as there's normally at least a few at any point having some maintenance work or simply busy doing other things. That is another option that the British and German ships or one of was having a pot shot at the other. However their not actually at war at the moment and also torpedoes are pretty short ranged at this date so it would be likely a torpedo would run out of steam before getting anywhere near the Dutch exercise. Of course since their attacked and sunk both British and German ships and threatening to interfer with other ships, even if only warships in a key area for both powers you could end up with an Anglo-German alliance to sort out the Dutch. - Not really under the circumstances but its something the Dutch might have to consider. Do not know if raunchel is wrong, but the only Stettin i can find is a Königsberg-class light cruiser and also as far as i know, German destroyers in 1914 only where named with numbers and no names. But maybe it is different in the Republic universe and Jakoba does not know that. They were light cruisers. And if Jakoba finds out about destroyers just being given numbers she will be shocked. Ships deserve names, and there are far too many interests that want certain names used. |
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stevep
Fleet admiral
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Post by stevep on Nov 19, 2018 16:07:53 GMT
Good update raunchel . So more than three dozen battleships the republic has, stevep might be able to answer if the Germans ore even the British had so many in 1914. Also, a British ore a German destroyer sunk, might it be they where targeting each other and instead a Republic ship was sunk, i wonder who gets the blame and why anybody would want war with a country as powerful as the Republic. The German and British ships actually were Light Cruisers. But even that doesn't give them much of a chance compared to something equivalent to the Grand Fleet opening fire. Especially when they are surprised as well.
Thanks for the reply in the earlier post. In this one by the emperor do you mean the German emperor? Only you had been talking about an approach from the French at this point and their a republic at the moment, unless Jakoba is getting really confused.
I'm guessing that the German defeat in the east is the initial one prior to their victories at Tannenberg?
The comment about the telegram exchange with Greetje - a sister? - suggests that in the Dutch world there isn't a large nation in N America?
Actually the sinking of the Dutch ship could be from a mine as a fair number were being laid, especially by the Germans OTL. If it is from one of the ships it's probably from the German ship, if they know a British ship is nearby and of the distrust between the two nations in the other world. Britain has no incentive to pick a fight given the uncertainty created by the arrival of this huge empire. They are however going to have to give a strong reaction themselves as the sinking of a British warship, especially so close to Britain itself. Given the tension of the time and the importance of the fleet to Britain's security but I hope that a war between Britain and the Netherlands doesn't result. However given how mistrustful the Dutch in this world are I fear that's all too likely.
Also it depends on what Johan means by approaches as those exercises are in one of the most crowded shipping lanes in the world as well as a key area in the current period of high tension even before the Dutch arrived.
If by 3 dozen battleships he means all dreadnoughts or battlecruisers I'm not sure even the RN had that many at this point in time.
The emperor indeed is the German one, it's the only one Jakoba has met so far. It however seems that I have mis-edited some bits, which I'll change as soon as this post is ready. The German defeat in the east indeed is in the lead-up to Tannenberg. But no one knows about that. All they see is the Russian juggernaut coming, along with all sorts of horrible tales. Greetje indeed is the sister, who lives with her husband and child in what would be Brazil in our world. In theirs, there is no major united state in North America. There were independent states, but they were a little more divided. Including former Dutch colonies of course. I won't say much about what really happened, but suffice to say, you really don't want something like this to be happening when there already is a lot of mistrust and tension. With approaching, Johan means ships that close in and then don't obey orders to get out of the way. There has been a bit of a paranoia attack. Not as bad as the Russian one, but a ship already got sunk, and there is little intention to let it happen again, especially not to a more important one. Of course, no one will be happy with their ships being sunk, and that will lead to further issues. And this is one of the situations where the political infighting should really get resolved, because at moments like this, you really want an ambassador in place. The battleships aren't all dreadnoughts and battlecruisers. There also is a bunch of predreads that's seen as not too obsolete yet to be taken along for major fleet actions (and to show a greater number, especially because some units remain overseas).
Raunchel
Thanks for the quick response and clarification. Hopefully it doesn't lead to a war, especially not with Britain.
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Coupled with the territorial clashes that are likely around the world where important parts of the British empire have suddenly become Dutch there is a distinct danger it could end up with a war that neither side, other than some hot-heads would really want. I wonder if anyone from either country has actually met up yet and compared world maps as that will show a hell of a lot of headaches! Mostly between Britain and the Netherlands but a number of others as well.
The Dutch army is half a million (including reserves) in the European Provinces. The regulars are 150k, so not nearly enough. There are more abroad, but it doesn't do much good to have hundreds of thousands of troops on the other side of the planet when you're getting invaded. Of course, given the size of the navy, there have been quite a few surplus naval guns in the past, which the army really likes to get its hands on...
- Not really under the circumstances but its something the Dutch might have to consider.