lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Nov 14, 2018 16:21:48 GMT
The Republic holds Formosa, which is where Karel (Jakoba's fiancé) was based before the gunboat diplomacy to Japan. But given the rest of the worldwide obligations the Republic has here, Formosa is awfully exposed.[/quote] I can agree Japan is not liking it that it lost of its colonial holdings. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Nov 14, 2018 16:29:27 GMT
Raunchel Thanks for the quick and comprehensive reply. Sounds like things are going to be very messy very quickly and also how many points at which the Dutch clash with just about everybody in OTL. It could end up with multiples wars or wars with one group, probably I fear the EP and a loose alliance with the CP. Or you might just get an outbreak of common sense and everybody avoiding conflict, at least with the Dutch. [Watch out for those low flying porkers!] Definitely going to be war with Japan as they won't accept a foreign military colony in their home islands, although possibly Taiwan depending on how things develop.
A Dutch New York wouldn't crippled the US even if it encompassed the bulk of that state and possibly some neighbouring areas but it would be a serious problem for the Dutch empire as it would almost certainly mean war with the US.
Thanks for the explanation of the 'joke'. The Austrian ambassador possibly didn't even think he was being offensive but its a good job that it wasn't explained to Jakoba.
Steve
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Nov 14, 2018 17:46:00 GMT
Raunchel Thanks for the quick and comprehensive reply. Sounds like things are going to be very messy very quickly and also how many points at which the Dutch clash with just about everybody in OTL. It could end up with multiples wars or wars with one group, probably I fear the EP and a loose alliance with the CP. Or you might just get an outbreak of common sense and everybody avoiding conflict, at least with the Dutch. [Watch out for those low flying porkers!] Definitely going to be war with Japan as they won't accept a foreign military colony in their home islands, although possibly Taiwan depending on how things develop. A Dutch New York wouldn't crippled the US even if it encompassed the bulk of that state and possibly some neighbouring areas but it would be a serious problem for the Dutch empire as it would almost certainly mean war with the US. Thanks for the explanation of the 'joke'. The Austrian ambassador possibly didn't even think he was being offensive but its a good job that it wasn't explained to Jakoba. Steve
Nice New Holland, that is going to hurt and piss of the United States. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Nov 14, 2018 20:40:30 GMT
Raunchel Thanks for the quick and comprehensive reply. Sounds like things are going to be very messy very quickly and also how many points at which the Dutch clash with just about everybody in OTL. It could end up with multiples wars or wars with one group, probably I fear the EP and a loose alliance with the CP. Or you might just get an outbreak of common sense and everybody avoiding conflict, at least with the Dutch. [Watch out for those low flying porkers!] Definitely going to be war with Japan as they won't accept a foreign military colony in their home islands, although possibly Taiwan depending on how things develop. A Dutch New York wouldn't crippled the US even if it encompassed the bulk of that state and possibly some neighbouring areas but it would be a serious problem for the Dutch empire as it would almost certainly mean war with the US. Thanks for the explanation of the 'joke'. The Austrian ambassador possibly didn't even think he was being offensive but its a good job that it wasn't explained to Jakoba. Steve
Nice New Holland, that is going to hurt and piss of the United States.
No actually it won't as that doesn't exist.  I had made a throw away remark that at least the US had New York to which Raunchel had replied she had excluded that because it would cripple the US too much but as I pointed out while it would reduce the US somewhat but would be more likely to be a serious problem for the Dutch as like the Japanese I can't see them accepting the sudden loss of a part of their homeland. For Japan Taiwan/Formosa is an issue but the Dutch also have a part of the southernmost of the Japanese main islands.
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raunchel
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Post by raunchel on Nov 15, 2018 11:41:27 GMT
I can agree Japan is not liking it that it lost of its colonial holdings. Japan is very far from happy with the Dutch holding part of the Home Islands, which has led to the whole mess there. Basically, what happened is that the Japanese were incredibly pissed with part of their country suddenly being held by foreigners, which led to incidents around the border and them bringing in more troops. In response, the local governor asked for reinforcements, and from Formosa, a small squadron of older ships was sent over. Unfortunately for them, they had no clue about the Kawachi and Settsu (and assorted other battleships and other naval units) which are based just around the corner. And a bunch of foreign warships just made for too easy a target for modern warships. Raunchel Thanks for the quick and comprehensive reply. Sounds like things are going to be very messy very quickly and also how many points at which the Dutch clash with just about everybody in OTL. It could end up with multiples wars or wars with one group, probably I fear the EP and a loose alliance with the CP. Or you might just get an outbreak of common sense and everybody avoiding conflict, at least with the Dutch. [Watch out for those low flying porkers!] Definitely going to be war with Japan as they won't accept a foreign military colony in their home islands, although possibly Taiwan depending on how things develop.
A Dutch New York wouldn't crippled the US even if it encompassed the bulk of that state and possibly some neighbouring areas but it would be a serious problem for the Dutch empire as it would almost certainly mean war with the US.
Thanks for the explanation of the 'joke'. The Austrian ambassador possibly didn't even think he was being offensive but its a good job that it wasn't explained to Jakoba.
Steve
There indeed are clashes with everyone, so the Dutch should really be incredibly happy with the time they arrived at. Because otherwise, I could imagine there being a war where basically the whole world jumps on them. There indeed is the potential for several simultaneous wars being fought, and a small chance for continued neutrality (although, common sense was in short supply at the time). There will be a war with Japan, but that will be hard to fight given that it's on the other side of the world and sending too much of the fleet to the far east risks exposing the metropole to others. You're probably right about the effects of a missing New York, which I might have overestimated. But then again, losing their largest city would have hurt and would indeed have led to war in a far more inevitable way than just controlling bits of the backyard would. Raunchel Thanks for the quick and comprehensive reply. Sounds like things are going to be very messy very quickly and also how many points at which the Dutch clash with just about everybody in OTL. It could end up with multiples wars or wars with one group, probably I fear the EP and a loose alliance with the CP. Or you might just get an outbreak of common sense and everybody avoiding conflict, at least with the Dutch. [Watch out for those low flying porkers!] Definitely going to be war with Japan as they won't accept a foreign military colony in their home islands, although possibly Taiwan depending on how things develop. A Dutch New York wouldn't crippled the US even if it encompassed the bulk of that state and possibly some neighbouring areas but it would be a serious problem for the Dutch empire as it would almost certainly mean war with the US. Thanks for the explanation of the 'joke'. The Austrian ambassador possibly didn't even think he was being offensive but its a good job that it wasn't explained to Jakoba. Steve
Nice New Holland, that is going to hurt and piss of the United States. Nice New Holland, that is going to hurt and piss of the United States.
No actually it won't as that doesn't exist. I had made a throw away remark that at least the US had New York to which Raunchel had replied she had excluded that because it would cripple the US too much but as I pointed out while it would reduce the US somewhat but would be more likely to be a serious problem for the Dutch as like the Japanese I can't see them accepting the sudden loss of a part of their homeland. For Japan Taiwan/Formosa is an issue but the Dutch also have a part of the southernmost of the Japanese main islands.
New Holland is the name for Dutch Brazil (or at least, part of it, once it began to expand, other provinces also wanted naming rights). |
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raunchel
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Post by raunchel on Nov 15, 2018 11:45:48 GMT
Berlin, August 14, 1914
Dear Father,
Please, let it not be true! Couldn’t it be another ship? Or could the yellows have been lying? I can’t believe that they could in any way match our mighty ships in battle. Couldn’t it be some attempt at deception from the English to lure away some of our fleet before they strike? As soon as I’ve finished this letter, I will speak to some of my new friends here in order to find out more. This simply can’t be possible.
I will write Karel’s family right away. I hope that you have also written them, they too deserve more than a letter from the admiralty. In case you do not have their address, I will attach it below. But please, make it clear that this only is what you heard, not the absolute truth.
Here in Berlin, all I hear about is war. There has been terrible fighting on their border with the French, where the invasion appears to have been turned back, although there has been truly enormous loss of life. When I spoke to a general, he actually seemed to be shocked by this! In the east, it appears that the Russians are massing to invade as well, I fear that this means that the German position is untenable, and there actually is mild panic here in the city that there are far too few forces to the east. There also is much surprise about the lack of Italian activity, which by now is being called treacherous.
The German navy seems to be mostly active in the Baltics, offering some support. But despite all modern advances, fleets still cannot entirely replace armies in the field, especially further away from the shore. The Austrians have started their invasion of Serbia (this little country in the Balkans), although the general I spoke to grumbled about it being too slow, claiming that they should have wiped them off the map weeks ago.
The ambassador I mentioned earlier, the one with the needlessly complex name, has been replaced by a younger man, with a German name that isn’t nearly as funny. But at least he seems much more courteous. He actually is a prince, and it appears that his wife is an archduchess. So they are incredibly important aristocracy.
We spoke for quite a while. It appears that her father is supreme commander of all the Austrian armies and navies, although she didn’t have much to say about the war. That however could also be because she doesn’t want to reveal any secrets. It however appears that the Austrian emperor shares power with himself as king of Hungary (I still have no idea how that works), but it is a truly enormous empire, and they have almost three and a half million men under arms! Their navy however is relatively weak, as their priority is on the army. She however told me that they have a pair of modern battleships.
But more importantly, she told me that there are some tensions within the empire, although the vast majority of the populace is united in their love for their emperor. I’m not entirely certain about this, and the way she insisted on it might point to some kind of weakness.
Your faithful daughter,
Jakoba
Antwerpen, August 17, 1914
Dearest Jakoba,
We all share in your grief, and I have spoken to ds. Houtzagers, my ship’s minister, to be able to offer you some guidance in the absence of such support abroad. Perhaps Uncle Sytze should write the foreign advocate to request the presence of ministers in major missions of this kind, especially when young women such as you come along. It wouldn’t do to have your impressionable mind tainted by false beliefs.
Ds. Houtzagers recommended you to meditate on Paul’s first letter to the Thessalonians, and specifically chapter four, from verse 13 onward. It is vital that you continue your life in service of the Lord, and in full observance of your duties. I pray that you will find another to give your heart to, and that you may be blessed with marriage.
Your mother has gone to visit Karel’s family, and told me that they were terribly distraught at the news. Mr. Oudernaarde resolved to ask his friends in the states of Limburg to press for more information, and to increase the preparations for war.
Here in Antwerpen, word reaches us from further and further abroad, and hope is rising that the overseas territories have not been lost. There appear to have been disturbances at borders, but no overt fighting such as that near Nagasaki.
What you write about the English and German battleships deeply worries me, the English are equal to us in strength, and joined with another power, they will have a more powerful fleet. Given your position abroad, could you enquire about about other naval powers? I can’t believe that the French for instance won’t have at least a few ships, and the same goes for the Russians and many other powers.
Currently, two of my ships are at sea at a time, to not put overly much pressure on them but to still have a force that can react quickly, and of course, to use their radio to call for reinforcements should the need arise. I pray that it won’t, but should the need come, we have the Lord with us.
Your loving father,
Johan Rots
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Nov 15, 2018 16:14:37 GMT
Berlin, August 14, 1914
Dear Father, Please, let it not be true! Couldn’t it be another ship? Or could the yellows have been lying? I can’t believe that they could in any way match our mighty ships in battle. Couldn’t it be some attempt at deception from the English to lure away some of our fleet before they strike? As soon as I’ve finished this letter, I will speak to some of my new friends here in order to find out more. This simply can’t be possible. I will write Karel’s family right away. I hope that you have also written them, they too deserve more than a letter from the admiralty. In case you do not have their address, I will attach it below. But please, make it clear that this only is what you heard, not the absolute truth. Here in Berlin, all I hear about is war. There has been terrible fighting on their border with the French, where the invasion appears to have been turned back, although there has been truly enormous loss of life. When I spoke to a general, he actually seemed to be shocked by this! In the east, it appears that the Russians are massing to invade as well, I fear that this means that the German position is untenable, and there actually is mild panic here in the city that there are far too few forces to the east. There also is much surprise about the lack of Italian activity, which by now is being called treacherous. The German navy seems to be mostly active in the Baltics, offering some support. But despite all modern advances, fleets still cannot entirely replace armies in the field, especially further away from the shore. The Austrians have started their invasion of Serbia (this little country in the Balkans), although the general I spoke to grumbled about it being too slow, claiming that they should have wiped them off the map weeks ago. The ambassador I mentioned earlier, the one with the needlessly complex name, has been replaced by a younger man, with a German name that isn’t nearly as funny. But at least he seems much more courteous. He actually is a prince, and it appears that his wife is an archduchess. So they are incredibly important aristocracy. We spoke for quite a while. It appears that her father is supreme commander of all the Austrian armies and navies, although she didn’t have much to say about the war. That however could also be because she doesn’t want to reveal any secrets. It however appears that the Austrian emperor shares power with himself as king of Hungary (I still have no idea how that works), but it is a truly enormous empire, and they have almost three and a half million men under arms! Their navy however is relatively weak, as their priority is on the army. She however told me that they have a pair of modern battleships. But more importantly, she told me that there are some tensions within the empire, although the vast majority of the populace is united in their love for their emperor. I’m not entirely certain about this, and the way she insisted on it might point to some kind of weakness. Your faithful daughter, Jakoba Antwerpen, August 17, 1914
Dearest Jakoba, We all share in your grief, and I have spoken to ds. Houtzagers, my ship’s minister, to be able to offer you some guidance in the absence of such support abroad. Perhaps Uncle Sytze should write the foreign advocate to request the presence of ministers in major missions of this kind, especially when young women such as you come along. It wouldn’t do to have your impressionable mind tainted by false beliefs. Ds. Houtzagers recommended you to meditate on Paul’s first letter to the Thessalonians, and specifically chapter four, from verse 13 onward. It is vital that you continue your life in service of the Lord, and in full observance of your duties. I pray that you will find another to give your heart to, and that you may be blessed with marriage. Your mother has gone to visit Karel’s family, and told me that they were terribly distraught at the news. Mr. Oudernaarde resolved to ask his friends in the states of Limburg to press for more information, and to increase the preparations for war. Here in Antwerpen, word reaches us from further and further abroad, and hope is rising that the overseas territories have not been lost. There appear to have been disturbances at borders, but no overt fighting such as that near Nagasaki. What you write about the English and German battleships deeply worries me, the English are equal to us in strength, and joined with another power, they will have a more powerful fleet. Given your position abroad, could you enquire about about other naval powers? I can’t believe that the French for instance won’t have at least a few ships, and the same goes for the Russians and many other powers. Currently, two of my ships are at sea at a time, to not put overly much pressure on them but to still have a force that can react quickly, and of course, to use their radio to call for reinforcements should the need arise. I pray that it won’t, but should the need come, we have the Lord with us. Your loving father, Johan Rots So yellows, it seem that the people of the Republic look down on the Japanese if the call them that. Also eurowatch, no comments about this timeline, it is about a strong Netherlands. |
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Post by eurowatch on Nov 15, 2018 16:41:54 GMT
Berlin, August 14, 1914
Dear Father, Please, let it not be true! Couldn’t it be another ship? Or could the yellows have been lying? I can’t believe that they could in any way match our mighty ships in battle. Couldn’t it be some attempt at deception from the English to lure away some of our fleet before they strike? As soon as I’ve finished this letter, I will speak to some of my new friends here in order to find out more. This simply can’t be possible. I will write Karel’s family right away. I hope that you have also written them, they too deserve more than a letter from the admiralty. In case you do not have their address, I will attach it below. But please, make it clear that this only is what you heard, not the absolute truth. Here in Berlin, all I hear about is war. There has been terrible fighting on their border with the French, where the invasion appears to have been turned back, although there has been truly enormous loss of life. When I spoke to a general, he actually seemed to be shocked by this! In the east, it appears that the Russians are massing to invade as well, I fear that this means that the German position is untenable, and there actually is mild panic here in the city that there are far too few forces to the east. There also is much surprise about the lack of Italian activity, which by now is being called treacherous. The German navy seems to be mostly active in the Baltics, offering some support. But despite all modern advances, fleets still cannot entirely replace armies in the field, especially further away from the shore. The Austrians have started their invasion of Serbia (this little country in the Balkans), although the general I spoke to grumbled about it being too slow, claiming that they should have wiped them off the map weeks ago. The ambassador I mentioned earlier, the one with the needlessly complex name, has been replaced by a younger man, with a German name that isn’t nearly as funny. But at least he seems much more courteous. He actually is a prince, and it appears that his wife is an archduchess. So they are incredibly important aristocracy. We spoke for quite a while. It appears that her father is supreme commander of all the Austrian armies and navies, although she didn’t have much to say about the war. That however could also be because she doesn’t want to reveal any secrets. It however appears that the Austrian emperor shares power with himself as king of Hungary (I still have no idea how that works), but it is a truly enormous empire, and they have almost three and a half million men under arms! Their navy however is relatively weak, as their priority is on the army. She however told me that they have a pair of modern battleships. But more importantly, she told me that there are some tensions within the empire, although the vast majority of the populace is united in their love for their emperor. I’m not entirely certain about this, and the way she insisted on it might point to some kind of weakness. Your faithful daughter, Jakoba Antwerpen, August 17, 1914
Dearest Jakoba, We all share in your grief, and I have spoken to ds. Houtzagers, my ship’s minister, to be able to offer you some guidance in the absence of such support abroad. Perhaps Uncle Sytze should write the foreign advocate to request the presence of ministers in major missions of this kind, especially when young women such as you come along. It wouldn’t do to have your impressionable mind tainted by false beliefs. Ds. Houtzagers recommended you to meditate on Paul’s first letter to the Thessalonians, and specifically chapter four, from verse 13 onward. It is vital that you continue your life in service of the Lord, and in full observance of your duties. I pray that you will find another to give your heart to, and that you may be blessed with marriage. Your mother has gone to visit Karel’s family, and told me that they were terribly distraught at the news. Mr. Oudernaarde resolved to ask his friends in the states of Limburg to press for more information, and to increase the preparations for war. Here in Antwerpen, word reaches us from further and further abroad, and hope is rising that the overseas territories have not been lost. There appear to have been disturbances at borders, but no overt fighting such as that near Nagasaki. What you write about the English and German battleships deeply worries me, the English are equal to us in strength, and joined with another power, they will have a more powerful fleet. Given your position abroad, could you enquire about about other naval powers? I can’t believe that the French for instance won’t have at least a few ships, and the same goes for the Russians and many other powers. Currently, two of my ships are at sea at a time, to not put overly much pressure on them but to still have a force that can react quickly, and of course, to use their radio to call for reinforcements should the need arise. I pray that it won’t, but should the need come, we have the Lord with us. Your loving father, Johan Rots So yellows, it seem that the people of the Republic look down on the Japanese if the call them that. Also eurowatch , no comments about this timeline, it is about a strong Netherlands. I Will comment when I have something to comment on. |
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Nov 15, 2018 16:42:30 GMT
So yellows, it seem that the people of the Republic look down on the Japanese if the call them that. Also eurowatch , no comments about this timeline, it is about a strong Netherlands. I Will comment when I have something to comment on. A okay, just asking. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Nov 15, 2018 16:58:03 GMT
Berlin, August 14, 1914
Dear Father, Please, let it not be true! Couldn’t it be another ship? Or could the yellows have been lying? I can’t believe that they could in any way match our mighty ships in battle. Couldn’t it be some attempt at deception from the English to lure away some of our fleet before they strike? As soon as I’ve finished this letter, I will speak to some of my new friends here in order to find out more. This simply can’t be possible. I will write Karel’s family right away. I hope that you have also written them, they too deserve more than a letter from the admiralty. In case you do not have their address, I will attach it below. But please, make it clear that this only is what you heard, not the absolute truth. Here in Berlin, all I hear about is war. There has been terrible fighting on their border with the French, where the invasion appears to have been turned back, although there has been truly enormous loss of life. When I spoke to a general, he actually seemed to be shocked by this! In the east, it appears that the Russians are massing to invade as well, I fear that this means that the German position is untenable, and there actually is mild panic here in the city that there are far too few forces to the east. There also is much surprise about the lack of Italian activity, which by now is being called treacherous. The German navy seems to be mostly active in the Baltics, offering some support. But despite all modern advances, fleets still cannot entirely replace armies in the field, especially further away from the shore. The Austrians have started their invasion of Serbia (this little country in the Balkans), although the general I spoke to grumbled about it being too slow, claiming that they should have wiped them off the map weeks ago. The ambassador I mentioned earlier, the one with the needlessly complex name, has been replaced by a younger man, with a German name that isn’t nearly as funny. But at least he seems much more courteous. He actually is a prince, and it appears that his wife is an archduchess. So they are incredibly important aristocracy. We spoke for quite a while. It appears that her father is supreme commander of all the Austrian armies and navies, although she didn’t have much to say about the war. That however could also be because she doesn’t want to reveal any secrets. It however appears that the Austrian emperor shares power with himself as king of Hungary (I still have no idea how that works), but it is a truly enormous empire, and they have almost three and a half million men under arms! Their navy however is relatively weak, as their priority is on the army. She however told me that they have a pair of modern battleships. But more importantly, she told me that there are some tensions within the empire, although the vast majority of the populace is united in their love for their emperor. I’m not entirely certain about this, and the way she insisted on it might point to some kind of weakness. Your faithful daughter, Jakoba Antwerpen, August 17, 1914
Dearest Jakoba, We all share in your grief, and I have spoken to ds. Houtzagers, my ship’s minister, to be able to offer you some guidance in the absence of such support abroad. Perhaps Uncle Sytze should write the foreign advocate to request the presence of ministers in major missions of this kind, especially when young women such as you come along. It wouldn’t do to have your impressionable mind tainted by false beliefs. Ds. Houtzagers recommended you to meditate on Paul’s first letter to the Thessalonians, and specifically chapter four, from verse 13 onward. It is vital that you continue your life in service of the Lord, and in full observance of your duties. I pray that you will find another to give your heart to, and that you may be blessed with marriage. Your mother has gone to visit Karel’s family, and told me that they were terribly distraught at the news. Mr. Oudernaarde resolved to ask his friends in the states of Limburg to press for more information, and to increase the preparations for war. Here in Antwerpen, word reaches us from further and further abroad, and hope is rising that the overseas territories have not been lost. There appear to have been disturbances at borders, but no overt fighting such as that near Nagasaki. What you write about the English and German battleships deeply worries me, the English are equal to us in strength, and joined with another power, they will have a more powerful fleet. Given your position abroad, could you enquire about about other naval powers? I can’t believe that the French for instance won’t have at least a few ships, and the same goes for the Russians and many other powers. Currently, two of my ships are at sea at a time, to not put overly much pressure on them but to still have a force that can react quickly, and of course, to use their radio to call for reinforcements should the need arise. I pray that it won’t, but should the need come, we have the Lord with us. Your loving father, Johan Rots So yellows, it seem that the people of the Republic look down on the Japanese if the call them that. Also eurowatch , no comments about this timeline, it is about a strong Netherlands.
I think most of the west was still rather looking down on Japan at the time, probably including at least a few in Britain even considering we were allied with them. Plus by the sound of it in their world Japan is like a smaller China, i.e. weak, backwards and divided, hence there being a Dutch colony in the Japanese homeland. It might be that other nations have carved out parts of Japan so those Dutch wouldn't be expecting it to be a strong modern nation. I wonder if Jakoba has heard yet about the Japanese defeat of Russia a decade ago. If so and depending on the status of Russia in her world that could be an eye opener. Albeit that was helped by the backward nature of some of the Russian forces, the sheer logistics of a war in the Far East without a complete rail link and some bits of luck by the Japanese.
It sounds like this Netherlands is still very religious, even compared to OTL 1914 Europe.
Concerned about the paranoia about Britain. Does sound rather like Anglo-Dutch relations in their world are as good as Franco-German relations in 1914!  Coupled with the territorial clashes that are likely around the world where important parts of the British empire have suddenly become Dutch there is a distinct danger it could end up with a war that neither side, other than some hot-heads would really want. I wonder if anyone from either country has actually met up yet and compared world maps as that will show a hell of a lot of headaches! Mostly between Britain and the Netherlands but a number of others as well.
I'm wondering what's happening with those huge armies that were due to march into Belgium and Luxembourg? Suspect some are still on the border both because of logistics and because they don't know what way [if any] the new mega-Netherlands will jump. Plus given the inflexibility of elements of the army there are probably some fools still thinking they should be marching through anyway and those newcomers be damned as their on the way to Paris. However would expect a few corps are probably being directed down toward Alsace-Lorraine and even more likely towards E Prussia as the Russians are moblising faster than the Germans expected. The appearance of the Greater Dutch empire could well be a massive bonus for Germany because it prevents them making arguably their greatest mistake in the war, especially since Britain, both because of the lack of invasion of Belgium and the appearance of a powerful new naval force is going to be less likely to support France, at least for the moment.
Strangely enough the great power the Netherlands might be closest to could be France as both are republican in a highly monarchist world - plus also the US although their some distance away. Mind you this could depend on how France reacts to the loss of the Calais region.
Would be interesting to know when was the last time Britain/England and the Netherlands last fought in Raunchl's world?
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Nov 15, 2018 17:16:09 GMT
So yellows, it seem that the people of the Republic look down on the Japanese if the call them that. Also eurowatch , no comments about this timeline, it is about a strong Netherlands. I think most of the west was still rather looking down on Japan at the time, probably including at least a few in Britain even considering we were allied with them. Plus by the sound of it in their world Japan is like a smaller China, i.e. weak, backwards and divided, hence there being a Dutch colony in the Japanese homeland. It might be that other nations have carved out parts of Japan so those Dutch wouldn't be expecting it to be a strong modern nation. I wonder if Jakoba has heard yet about the Japanese defeat of Russia a decade ago. If so and depending on the status of Russia in her world that could be an eye opener. Albeit that was helped by the backward nature of some of the Russian forces, the sheer logistics of a war in the Far East without a complete rail link and some bits of luck by the Japanese.
It sounds like this Netherlands is still very religious, even compared to OTL 1914 Europe.
Concerned about the paranoia about Britain. Does sound rather like Anglo-Dutch relations in their world are as good as Franco-German relations in 1914! Coupled with the territorial clashes that are likely around the world where important parts of the British empire have suddenly become Dutch there is a distinct danger it could end up with a war that neither side, other than some hot-heads would really want. I wonder if anyone from either country has actually met up yet and compared world maps as that will show a hell of a lot of headaches! Mostly between Britain and the Netherlands but a number of others as well. I'm wondering what's happening with those huge armies that were due to march into Belgium and Luxembourg? Suspect some are still on the border both because of logistics and because they don't know what way [if any] the new mega-Netherlands will jump. Plus given the inflexibility of elements of the army there are probably some fools still thinking they should be marching through anyway and those newcomers be damned as their on the way to Paris. However would expect a few corps are probably being directed down toward Alsace-Lorraine and even more likely towards E Prussia as the Russians are moblising faster than the Germans expected. The appearance of the Greater Dutch empire could well be a massive bonus for Germany because it prevents them making arguably their greatest mistake in the war, especially since Britain, both because of the lack of invasion of Belgium and the appearance of a powerful new naval force is going to be less likely to support France, at least for the moment. Strangely enough the great power the Netherlands might be closest to could be France as both are republican in a highly monarchist world - plus also the US although their some distance away. Mind you this could depend on how France reacts to the loss of the Calais region. Would be interesting to know when was the last time Britain/England and the Netherlands last fought in Raunchl's world?
It seems there is heavy fighting between Germany and France at thier border due the Germans not yet having invaded what is now Netherlands controlled Belgium and Luxembourg, thus i wonder, did the French in 1914 have some sort of Maginot line protecting their border. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Nov 15, 2018 21:16:16 GMT
I think most of the west was still rather looking down on Japan at the time, probably including at least a few in Britain even considering we were allied with them. Plus by the sound of it in their world Japan is like a smaller China, i.e. weak, backwards and divided, hence there being a Dutch colony in the Japanese homeland. It might be that other nations have carved out parts of Japan so those Dutch wouldn't be expecting it to be a strong modern nation. I wonder if Jakoba has heard yet about the Japanese defeat of Russia a decade ago. If so and depending on the status of Russia in her world that could be an eye opener. Albeit that was helped by the backward nature of some of the Russian forces, the sheer logistics of a war in the Far East without a complete rail link and some bits of luck by the Japanese.
It sounds like this Netherlands is still very religious, even compared to OTL 1914 Europe.
Concerned about the paranoia about Britain. Does sound rather like Anglo-Dutch relations in their world are as good as Franco-German relations in 1914! Coupled with the territorial clashes that are likely around the world where important parts of the British empire have suddenly become Dutch there is a distinct danger it could end up with a war that neither side, other than some hot-heads would really want. I wonder if anyone from either country has actually met up yet and compared world maps as that will show a hell of a lot of headaches! Mostly between Britain and the Netherlands but a number of others as well. I'm wondering what's happening with those huge armies that were due to march into Belgium and Luxembourg? Suspect some are still on the border both because of logistics and because they don't know what way [if any] the new mega-Netherlands will jump. Plus given the inflexibility of elements of the army there are probably some fools still thinking they should be marching through anyway and those newcomers be damned as their on the way to Paris. However would expect a few corps are probably being directed down toward Alsace-Lorraine and even more likely towards E Prussia as the Russians are moblising faster than the Germans expected. The appearance of the Greater Dutch empire could well be a massive bonus for Germany because it prevents them making arguably their greatest mistake in the war, especially since Britain, both because of the lack of invasion of Belgium and the appearance of a powerful new naval force is going to be less likely to support France, at least for the moment. Strangely enough the great power the Netherlands might be closest to could be France as both are republican in a highly monarchist world - plus also the US although their some distance away. Mind you this could depend on how France reacts to the loss of the Calais region. Would be interesting to know when was the last time Britain/England and the Netherlands last fought in Raunchl's world?
It seems there is heavy fighting between Germany and France at thier border due the Germans not yet having invaded what is now Netherlands controlled Belgium and Luxembourg, thus i wonder, did the French in 1914 have some sort of Maginot line protecting their border.
Both sides had fortifications but unfortunately for France the dominant military philosophy at that date was very offensive with the believe that elan and determination could defeat defences, despite a lack of adequate heavy artillery. This was the suicidal plan 17 that meant they launched massed infantry attacks against the German fortifications and suffered appalling losses, I think the worst in the entire war. This was moderated somewhat when the relatively weak German forces in the region, who were supposed to just hold their positions while the right wing crashed through Belgium to encircle both Paris [according to the original, impractical plan] and the French armies attacking in AL actually went on the offensive themselves. Here of course the German right isn't going to come crashing through Belgium but I would expect some forces will start moving down from their start positions facing the Belgium border towards the A-L one. Although since the German rail lines in the region were built largely to direct troops to the expected line of advance this would mean some marching but that shouldn't be a great problem.
If the French fall back on their defences, especially since there's not a massive force threatening their flank then they could well hold although it would be bloody, for both sides and, presuming the Dutch stay neutral and that neutrally is respected, the French aren't going to lose a hell of a lot of their industrial heartland in the NE, which will help them considerably. It could be a long and bloody war if the British and Dutch both stay out of it - but the British maintain their agreement to cover the French coastline against possible German naval action. [Which should be possible given their desire to maintain free traffic through such an important waterway. Although given how powerful and mistrustful the Dutch are here that could lead to some tension].
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lordroel
Administrator
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Post by lordroel on Nov 15, 2018 21:20:01 GMT
It seems there is heavy fighting between Germany and France at thier border due the Germans not yet having invaded what is now Netherlands controlled Belgium and Luxembourg, thus i wonder, did the French in 1914 have some sort of Maginot line protecting their border. Both sides had fortifications but unfortunately for France the dominant military philosophy at that date was very offensive with the believe that elan and determination could defeat defences, despite a lack of adequate heavy artillery. This was the suicidal plan 17 that meant they launched massed infantry attacks against the German fortifications and suffered appalling losses, I think the worst in the entire war. This was moderated somewhat when the relatively weak German forces in the region, who were supposed to just hold their positions while the right wing crashed through Belgium to encircle both Paris [according to the original, impractical plan] and the French armies attacking in AL actually went on the offensive themselves. Here of course the German right isn't going to come crashing through Belgium but I would expect some forces will start moving down from their start positions facing the Belgium border towards the A-L one. Although since the German rail lines in the region were built largely to direct troops to the expected line of advance this would mean some marching but that shouldn't be a great problem. If the French fall back on their defences, especially since there's not a massive force threatening their flank then they could well hold although it would be bloody, for both sides and, presuming the Dutch stay neutral and that neutrally is respected, the French aren't going to lose a hell of a lot of their industrial heartland in the NE, which will help them considerably. It could be a long and bloody war if the British and Dutch both stay out of it - but the British maintain their agreement to cover the French coastline against possible German naval action. [Which should be possible given their desire to maintain free traffic through such an important waterway. Although given how powerful and mistrustful the Dutch are here that could lead to some tension].
Well there is no Belgium as it is part of the Republic of the Netherlands ore whatever its full name is, thus even if the Germans invade the Southern part of the Netherlands (OTL Belgium and Luxembourg), i do not know if the British guarantee is still in effect as that only covered a now missing Kingdom of Belgium. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Nov 15, 2018 21:56:46 GMT
Both sides had fortifications but unfortunately for France the dominant military philosophy at that date was very offensive with the believe that elan and determination could defeat defences, despite a lack of adequate heavy artillery. This was the suicidal plan 17 that meant they launched massed infantry attacks against the German fortifications and suffered appalling losses, I think the worst in the entire war. This was moderated somewhat when the relatively weak German forces in the region, who were supposed to just hold their positions while the right wing crashed through Belgium to encircle both Paris [according to the original, impractical plan] and the French armies attacking in AL actually went on the offensive themselves. Here of course the German right isn't going to come crashing through Belgium but I would expect some forces will start moving down from their start positions facing the Belgium border towards the A-L one. Although since the German rail lines in the region were built largely to direct troops to the expected line of advance this would mean some marching but that shouldn't be a great problem. If the French fall back on their defences, especially since there's not a massive force threatening their flank then they could well hold although it would be bloody, for both sides and, presuming the Dutch stay neutral and that neutrally is respected, the French aren't going to lose a hell of a lot of their industrial heartland in the NE, which will help them considerably. It could be a long and bloody war if the British and Dutch both stay out of it - but the British maintain their agreement to cover the French coastline against possible German naval action. [Which should be possible given their desire to maintain free traffic through such an important waterway. Although given how powerful and mistrustful the Dutch are here that could lead to some tension].
Well there is no Belgium as it is part of the Republic of the Netherlands ore whatever its full name is, thus even if the Germans invade the Southern part of the Netherlands (OTL Belgium and Luxembourg), i do not know if the British guarantee is still in effect as that only covered a now missing Kingdom of Belgium.
Depending on the strength of the Dutch forces it may not be necessary but I would think Britain would find it convenient to support the Dutch if they were attacked. You might not get the same massed volunteers as with an attack on little Belgium rather than this unknown and somewhat hostile power that's suddenly appears. However allying with the powerful Dutch fleet would be a good way of removing any threat from them and really turning the screw on Germany. Of course depending on the circumstances they could stay neutral which would save a lot of British blood and money but would rather isolate Britain diplomatically as France and Russia would be likely to see it as desertion. A bit like the bloc/EDA in James's story, although no formal alliance existed in Britain's case in 1914.
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raunchel
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Post by raunchel on Nov 16, 2018 12:53:18 GMT
Berlin, August 14, 1914
Dear Father, Please, let it not be true! Couldn’t it be another ship? Or could the yellows have been lying? I can’t believe that they could in any way match our mighty ships in battle. Couldn’t it be some attempt at deception from the English to lure away some of our fleet before they strike? As soon as I’ve finished this letter, I will speak to some of my new friends here in order to find out more. This simply can’t be possible. I will write Karel’s family right away. I hope that you have also written them, they too deserve more than a letter from the admiralty. In case you do not have their address, I will attach it below. But please, make it clear that this only is what you heard, not the absolute truth. Here in Berlin, all I hear about is war. There has been terrible fighting on their border with the French, where the invasion appears to have been turned back, although there has been truly enormous loss of life. When I spoke to a general, he actually seemed to be shocked by this! In the east, it appears that the Russians are massing to invade as well, I fear that this means that the German position is untenable, and there actually is mild panic here in the city that there are far too few forces to the east. There also is much surprise about the lack of Italian activity, which by now is being called treacherous. The German navy seems to be mostly active in the Baltics, offering some support. But despite all modern advances, fleets still cannot entirely replace armies in the field, especially further away from the shore. The Austrians have started their invasion of Serbia (this little country in the Balkans), although the general I spoke to grumbled about it being too slow, claiming that they should have wiped them off the map weeks ago. The ambassador I mentioned earlier, the one with the needlessly complex name, has been replaced by a younger man, with a German name that isn’t nearly as funny. But at least he seems much more courteous. He actually is a prince, and it appears that his wife is an archduchess. So they are incredibly important aristocracy. We spoke for quite a while. It appears that her father is supreme commander of all the Austrian armies and navies, although she didn’t have much to say about the war. That however could also be because she doesn’t want to reveal any secrets. It however appears that the Austrian emperor shares power with himself as king of Hungary (I still have no idea how that works), but it is a truly enormous empire, and they have almost three and a half million men under arms! Their navy however is relatively weak, as their priority is on the army. She however told me that they have a pair of modern battleships. But more importantly, she told me that there are some tensions within the empire, although the vast majority of the populace is united in their love for their emperor. I’m not entirely certain about this, and the way she insisted on it might point to some kind of weakness. Your faithful daughter, Jakoba Antwerpen, August 17, 1914
Dearest Jakoba, We all share in your grief, and I have spoken to ds. Houtzagers, my ship’s minister, to be able to offer you some guidance in the absence of such support abroad. Perhaps Uncle Sytze should write the foreign advocate to request the presence of ministers in major missions of this kind, especially when young women such as you come along. It wouldn’t do to have your impressionable mind tainted by false beliefs. Ds. Houtzagers recommended you to meditate on Paul’s first letter to the Thessalonians, and specifically chapter four, from verse 13 onward. It is vital that you continue your life in service of the Lord, and in full observance of your duties. I pray that you will find another to give your heart to, and that you may be blessed with marriage. Your mother has gone to visit Karel’s family, and told me that they were terribly distraught at the news. Mr. Oudernaarde resolved to ask his friends in the states of Limburg to press for more information, and to increase the preparations for war. Here in Antwerpen, word reaches us from further and further abroad, and hope is rising that the overseas territories have not been lost. There appear to have been disturbances at borders, but no overt fighting such as that near Nagasaki. What you write about the English and German battleships deeply worries me, the English are equal to us in strength, and joined with another power, they will have a more powerful fleet. Given your position abroad, could you enquire about about other naval powers? I can’t believe that the French for instance won’t have at least a few ships, and the same goes for the Russians and many other powers. Currently, two of my ships are at sea at a time, to not put overly much pressure on them but to still have a force that can react quickly, and of course, to use their radio to call for reinforcements should the need arise. I pray that it won’t, but should the need come, we have the Lord with us. Your loving father, Johan Rots So yellows, it seem that the people of the Republic look down on the Japanese if the call them that. Also eurowatch , no comments about this timeline, it is about a strong Netherlands. They indeed look down on the Japanese, they were a bit like China in our timeline, so the Dutch could carve out a little bit. And of course, there is the general racism of the era. Jakoba doesn't yet know about the Russian humiliation against Japan, but that would indeed put it in some perspective. Although, with a bit of work, Russians could also be seen as not really white. So yellows, it seem that the people of the Republic look down on the Japanese if the call them that. Also eurowatch , no comments about this timeline, it is about a strong Netherlands.
I think most of the west was still rather looking down on Japan at the time, probably including at least a few in Britain even considering we were allied with them. Plus by the sound of it in their world Japan is like a smaller China, i.e. weak, backwards and divided, hence there being a Dutch colony in the Japanese homeland. It might be that other nations have carved out parts of Japan so those Dutch wouldn't be expecting it to be a strong modern nation. I wonder if Jakoba has heard yet about the Japanese defeat of Russia a decade ago. If so and depending on the status of Russia in her world that could be an eye opener. Albeit that was helped by the backward nature of some of the Russian forces, the sheer logistics of a war in the Far East without a complete rail link and some bits of luck by the Japanese.
It sounds like this Netherlands is still very religious, even compared to OTL 1914 Europe.
Concerned about the paranoia about Britain. Does sound rather like Anglo-Dutch relations in their world are as good as Franco-German relations in 1914! Coupled with the territorial clashes that are likely around the world where important parts of the British empire have suddenly become Dutch there is a distinct danger it could end up with a war that neither side, other than some hot-heads would really want. I wonder if anyone from either country has actually met up yet and compared world maps as that will show a hell of a lot of headaches! Mostly between Britain and the Netherlands but a number of others as well.
I'm wondering what's happening with those huge armies that were due to march into Belgium and Luxembourg? Suspect some are still on the border both because of logistics and because they don't know what way [if any] the new mega-Netherlands will jump. Plus given the inflexibility of elements of the army there are probably some fools still thinking they should be marching through anyway and those newcomers be damned as their on the way to Paris. However would expect a few corps are probably being directed down toward Alsace-Lorraine and even more likely towards E Prussia as the Russians are moblising faster than the Germans expected. The appearance of the Greater Dutch empire could well be a massive bonus for Germany because it prevents them making arguably their greatest mistake in the war, especially since Britain, both because of the lack of invasion of Belgium and the appearance of a powerful new naval force is going to be less likely to support France, at least for the moment.
Strangely enough the great power the Netherlands might be closest to could be France as both are republican in a highly monarchist world - plus also the US although their some distance away. Mind you this could depend on how France reacts to the loss of the Calais region.
Would be interesting to know when was the last time Britain/England and the Netherlands last fought in Raunchl's world?
These Netherlands aren't very religious, although they still are more religious than other countries of the time. Of course, that partially comes because of my own background, but also because it has always been a deeply religious country. Only now there is a strong state religion and several branches of Christianity are banned. There have been initial meetings between British and Dutch representatives, but the most official meetings have been between members of the new embassies in France and Germany. There haven't yet been high-level talks, and there still is a lot to be worked out before that will happen. The Anglo-Dutch relations were pretty awful, and they have fought quite a few wars. The most recent will be mentioned soon, but there were plenty more. And of course, a lot of colonial competition. The German army has been thrown into disarray because their whole plan came crashing down. They're currently trying to reorganise, but that will take time. So, until then, there remains a huge military concentration just over the border. Some forces have been drawn south however, and other later waves of troops have instead been sent to the east. There however still is enough of an army facing the Dutch to smash through their border fortresses. After all, there wasn't much that could resist the full might of the Imperial German Army at this time. I think most of the west was still rather looking down on Japan at the time, probably including at least a few in Britain even considering we were allied with them. Plus by the sound of it in their world Japan is like a smaller China, i.e. weak, backwards and divided, hence there being a Dutch colony in the Japanese homeland. It might be that other nations have carved out parts of Japan so those Dutch wouldn't be expecting it to be a strong modern nation. I wonder if Jakoba has heard yet about the Japanese defeat of Russia a decade ago. If so and depending on the status of Russia in her world that could be an eye opener. Albeit that was helped by the backward nature of some of the Russian forces, the sheer logistics of a war in the Far East without a complete rail link and some bits of luck by the Japanese.
It sounds like this Netherlands is still very religious, even compared to OTL 1914 Europe.
Concerned about the paranoia about Britain. Does sound rather like Anglo-Dutch relations in their world are as good as Franco-German relations in 1914! Coupled with the territorial clashes that are likely around the world where important parts of the British empire have suddenly become Dutch there is a distinct danger it could end up with a war that neither side, other than some hot-heads would really want. I wonder if anyone from either country has actually met up yet and compared world maps as that will show a hell of a lot of headaches! Mostly between Britain and the Netherlands but a number of others as well. I'm wondering what's happening with those huge armies that were due to march into Belgium and Luxembourg? Suspect some are still on the border both because of logistics and because they don't know what way [if any] the new mega-Netherlands will jump. Plus given the inflexibility of elements of the army there are probably some fools still thinking they should be marching through anyway and those newcomers be damned as their on the way to Paris. However would expect a few corps are probably being directed down toward Alsace-Lorraine and even more likely towards E Prussia as the Russians are moblising faster than the Germans expected. The appearance of the Greater Dutch empire could well be a massive bonus for Germany because it prevents them making arguably their greatest mistake in the war, especially since Britain, both because of the lack of invasion of Belgium and the appearance of a powerful new naval force is going to be less likely to support France, at least for the moment. Strangely enough the great power the Netherlands might be closest to could be France as both are republican in a highly monarchist world - plus also the US although their some distance away. Mind you this could depend on how France reacts to the loss of the Calais region. Would be interesting to know when was the last time Britain/England and the Netherlands last fought in Raunchl's world?
It seems there is heavy fighting between Germany and France at thier border due the Germans not yet having invaded what is now Netherlands controlled Belgium and Luxembourg, thus i wonder, did the French in 1914 have some sort of Maginot line protecting their border. It seems there is heavy fighting between Germany and France at thier border due the Germans not yet having invaded what is now Netherlands controlled Belgium and Luxembourg, thus i wonder, did the French in 1914 have some sort of Maginot line protecting their border.
Both sides had fortifications but unfortunately for France the dominant military philosophy at that date was very offensive with the believe that elan and determination could defeat defences, despite a lack of adequate heavy artillery. This was the suicidal plan 17 that meant they launched massed infantry attacks against the German fortifications and suffered appalling losses, I think the worst in the entire war. This was moderated somewhat when the relatively weak German forces in the region, who were supposed to just hold their positions while the right wing crashed through Belgium to encircle both Paris [according to the original, impractical plan] and the French armies attacking in AL actually went on the offensive themselves. Here of course the German right isn't going to come crashing through Belgium but I would expect some forces will start moving down from their start positions facing the Belgium border towards the A-L one. Although since the German rail lines in the region were built largely to direct troops to the expected line of advance this would mean some marching but that shouldn't be a great problem.
If the French fall back on their defences, especially since there's not a massive force threatening their flank then they could well hold although it would be bloody, for both sides and, presuming the Dutch stay neutral and that neutrally is respected, the French aren't going to lose a hell of a lot of their industrial heartland in the NE, which will help them considerably. It could be a long and bloody war if the British and Dutch both stay out of it - but the British maintain their agreement to cover the French coastline against possible German naval action. [Which should be possible given their desire to maintain free traffic through such an important waterway. Although given how powerful and mistrustful the Dutch are here that could lead to some tension].
There are plenty of fortresses in the region, the French for instance have the fortresses around Verdun while the Germans have Metz (powerful enough to still be a major obstacle thirty years later). Plan XVII however remains in full effect and has seen initial successes (at the cost of some losses, at the 17th, the Germans start to really fight back and bring their heavy guns to bear. After that, it becomes truly awful to be a French soldier. The Germans are getting some extra reinforcements here, so it will be a real bloodbath without any of the lessons of the war being learnt. The terrain however also isn't as good, and the front is relatively short, which gives the potential for a stalemate. Both sides will need a reserve in case the Dutch prove treacherous, but the Dutch army is only a little stronger than the Belgian was at the start of the war (same in numbers, better in equipment and training). It can hold fortresses and slow things down, but it lacks the size to be really relevant offensively. That can only change when more manpower is brought in. Both sides had fortifications but unfortunately for France the dominant military philosophy at that date was very offensive with the believe that elan and determination could defeat defences, despite a lack of adequate heavy artillery. This was the suicidal plan 17 that meant they launched massed infantry attacks against the German fortifications and suffered appalling losses, I think the worst in the entire war. This was moderated somewhat when the relatively weak German forces in the region, who were supposed to just hold their positions while the right wing crashed through Belgium to encircle both Paris [according to the original, impractical plan] and the French armies attacking in AL actually went on the offensive themselves. Here of course the German right isn't going to come crashing through Belgium but I would expect some forces will start moving down from their start positions facing the Belgium border towards the A-L one. Although since the German rail lines in the region were built largely to direct troops to the expected line of advance this would mean some marching but that shouldn't be a great problem. If the French fall back on their defences, especially since there's not a massive force threatening their flank then they could well hold although it would be bloody, for both sides and, presuming the Dutch stay neutral and that neutrally is respected, the French aren't going to lose a hell of a lot of their industrial heartland in the NE, which will help them considerably. It could be a long and bloody war if the British and Dutch both stay out of it - but the British maintain their agreement to cover the French coastline against possible German naval action. [Which should be possible given their desire to maintain free traffic through such an important waterway. Although given how powerful and mistrustful the Dutch are here that could lead to some tension].
Well there is no Belgium as it is part of the Republic of the Netherlands ore whatever its full name is, thus even if the Germans invade the Southern part of the Netherlands (OTL Belgium and Luxembourg), i do not know if the British guarantee is still in effect as that only covered a now missing Kingdom of Belgium. The Netherlands here are the: Republiek der Vierentwintig Verenigde Nederlanden (although seven of those Netherlands aren't all that low, and are on other continents). Well there is no Belgium as it is part of the Republic of the Netherlands ore whatever its full name is, thus even if the Germans invade the Southern part of the Netherlands (OTL Belgium and Luxembourg), i do not know if the British guarantee is still in effect as that only covered a now missing Kingdom of Belgium.
Depending on the strength of the Dutch forces it may not be necessary but I would think Britain would find it convenient to support the Dutch if they were attacked. You might not get the same massed volunteers as with an attack on little Belgium rather than this unknown and somewhat hostile power that's suddenly appears. However allying with the powerful Dutch fleet would be a good way of removing any threat from them and really turning the screw on Germany. Of course depending on the circumstances they could stay neutral which would save a lot of British blood and money but would rather isolate Britain diplomatically as France and Russia would be likely to see it as desertion. A bit like the bloc/EDA in James's story, although no formal alliance existed in Britain's case in 1914.
If the Dutch get invaded, they will immediately have to give full access to an ally. They have roughly half a million soldiers in the mainland, of which a large part is positioned to hold the string of fortresses around all borders. They just can't hold for very long against armies of millions, and will need the support of an ally, which would mean either the French or the Germans. The British were already being accused of treachery when they didn't join the war right away, the French had been given the impression that they would. Things now are a little more complicated, but the same still applies and the British did give guarantees about protecting the northern coast. Guarantees that would get complicated if they don't just have to stop the German navy. |
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I had made a throw away remark that at least the US had New York to which Raunchel had replied she had excluded that because it would cripple the US too much but as I pointed out while it would reduce the US somewhat but would be more likely to be a serious problem for the Dutch as like the Japanese I can't see them accepting the sudden loss of a part of their homeland. For Japan Taiwan/Formosa is an issue but the Dutch also have a part of the southernmost of the Japanese main islands.
Coupled with the territorial clashes that are likely around the world where important parts of the British empire have suddenly become Dutch there is a distinct danger it could end up with a war that neither side, other than some hot-heads would really want. I wonder if anyone from either country has actually met up yet and compared world maps as that will show a hell of a lot of headaches! Mostly between Britain and the Netherlands but a number of others as well.