stevep
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Post by stevep on Dec 4, 2018 23:11:01 GMT
Battlecruiser Geloof, October 28, 1914Dearest Jakoba, Admiral Wolters’ report has finally arrived and a national day of celebration has been declared in honour of his victory. He has destroyed the main strength of the North American fleet and took several of their battleships and sunk the others. He has also taken many more prizes, although a list of damages to neutral ships was also prepared, in order to pay reparations to their owners. In total, the enemy fleet has lost six modern battleships in this attack, along with 5 older ones and 11 destroyers. Of their losses, three battleships were taken, although one had to be scuttled due to damage. Two however are being brought home. Two of the older battleships, two submarines, 4 destroyers, two old cruisers, and a plethora of other ships have been captured. The city has been made to surrender, and local shipyards and industries have been demolished. Furthermore, two unfinished battleships have also been taken. Curiously enough, one of them wasn’t even a North American ship, but one belonging to a nation called Argentine. Our own losses are damage to the Noorderlicht and two of the older battleships. Another older battleship has been sunk along with a cruiser and three destroyers. Other ships have suffered damage in varying degrees. Rear admiral Kleisterlee has fallen in battle at the head of his division. The marines have suffered very heavy losses however, not only in storming enemy fortresses, but also in the streets of the cities. It seems that many civilians took up arms in order to resist. They should see themselves as fortunate that admiral Wolters didn’t order the complete destruction of the city and its population in retaliation. Wolters also reported several other engagements. One was already described by you, at this more southern port, but he has also led part of his fleet further north, in order to strike at a city named Boston. The enemy warships there however fled north and he could only destroy a few of them and shell the naval yards before withdrawing to New York to replenish stocks. He however could tow an unfinished battleship with him, which is to be studied and finished if it can be brought home. Throughout the Carribean, a squadron of light cruisers under rear admiral van Bergen has been unleashed to engage North American shipping and to further disrupt their operations. Tidings such as these should fill every Dutchman with a deep pride in our martial prowess. Please, don’t let such horrible things bring you off your balance. It seems only logical to me that Mrs Gerard was deeply affected by her son’s death. Many peoples lack the moral backbone that defines our great nation and they frequently also don’t have the faith that allows us to be grateful for such things. The English are by their nature a slanderous people, as we have been demonstrated time and time again. I fear that they are the same in this world, strengthening me in my conviction that they are responsible for that underhanded attack on us. Please, pay them no heed. Everything you did was in perfect accordance with all laws and conventions, and you shouldn’t blame yourself. And don’t worry about the Greeks. From what I know they are weak and are directly opposed by the Turk. Should the need come, the Turk will ally with us and we will teach those degenerates a lesson they won’t quickly forget. Your loving father, Johan Rots Berlin, November 1, 1914Dear Father, Thank you so much for writing me about what has happened in the Americas. We received reports from The Hague, but those naturally are far too technical for someone such as me. In order to honour the victory, I hosted a small celebration, inviting our allies. The number of allies has increased, much to my happiness. It seems that Cuba has also declared war on the North Americans, which should give us some useful bases. We have also clarified to the Germans that they ought to consider the coast of these United States of America to be under blockade, and that we will sink or capture any ship within two hundred miles of North American shores. They didn’t seem to be too happy about this, but I told them that we had little choice in the matter and that I hoped that peace would soon be the norm again. I have also spoken to the emperor again, he was very curious about Battle of New York, and I told him a little. Not about our own losses of course, but I did say that we have captured their flagship. He expressed some worries about the city, given that there are many people there of German descent, and I explained to him that unfortunately, we were forced to fight there, mostly by armed civilians. When he asked what he did about that, the answer unfortunately was simple. Anyone out of uniform who raised arms against us was shot, or, if captured, hung. This rather shocked him, so I asked what he would order to have done with any French civilians who would shoot at his men. To that, he nodded in agreement and understanding. We also discussed our aims in this war. Of course, I couldn’t share everything, but I said that we intended to disarm them of larger warships, would take their pacific islands, give Panama to Colombia, remove them from the Carribean and Mexico, and of course, would demand an indemnity for the cost of this war. I also mentioned that we might establish some advantageous trade treaties. In return, he asked me about territorial gains at the cost of the North American mainland. I denied that we have any such ambitions as we don’t require any of those territories for our security. At that, he seemed to frown, and I naturally asked him, purely theoretical of course, what he would have demanded for Germany. He said that he would want to expand his colonial empire and attempt to gain an indemnity. He however didn’t have anything ready in his mind, so I presume that they’re not planning on getting us to join them that way. Uncle Sytze remains ill, there is little in the way of improvement in that regard, but he can fortunately do the basics of his duties. He has been meeting with representatives of the Turk, but naturally, I couldn’t be present. We have been meeting more frequently with representatives from multiple nations in the Caribbean and the Americas. They all appear to be trying to win our favour, although I presume that most of their contact is with our people in Nieuw-Holland. Fortunately, I have been able to achieve something at least. Together with some notable ladies in the city, I have started a fund to care for the orphans and widows that are created by this war. I hope that you can forgive me for donating part of my allowance to this as well. But what matters the most to me is how Mother is doing. She hasn’t written me in days, and I’m so worried. I almost decided to head back home, but I can’t forget my duties. Your faithful daughter, Jakoba
Raunchel
Ouch that is a bad defeat. Coupled with the losses at Norfolk and Boston it could pretty much knock out the USN and much of its production capacity. Going to take a long while for the US to come back from this. Can't see them agreeing to anything like the suggested Dutch terms. Dutch losses are very light if older battleships means pre-dreads which I suspect it does.
A bit surprised that Cuba is going to war with the US as it was only recently liberated from Spanish rule by the US. Could also find a number of those new 'allies' regretting their decisions in the future.
Also that the Germans didn't warn Jakoba that the blockade as mentioned is illegal under the rules of this world and is especially likely to cause problems as there will also be a lot of ships that are passing through the region without stopping at the US. Not to mention a lot of others on the way to or from it that won't know about such a Dutch declaration for quite some time as many ships didn't have radios or at least long ranged ones then. Britain is the only powerful neutral left not at war with someone I think but there are a number of smaller trading nations that are likely to be affected. In fact of they start attacking British MS, and they form about 50-60% of total world shipping at the moment so there's a damned good chance of that, its likely to make war virtually certain. Its not good for the other nations in the other war, especially Germany as without Britain to blockade it and with international rules currently forbidding the sort of actions the Dutch are suggesting they were probably still doing a lot of trade with the US.
Actually carrying out such an operation could be fairly awkward as well as the Atlantic is big and even restricting yourself to 200 miles [would the Dutch use that unit?] from the US shore that's a long reach while its also a long way from Dutch bases. Going to take a lot of time and coal to travel to and from even Cuba/Puerto Rico and you risk having such patrols vulnerable to attack. Especially if the US starts building subs quickly as that's something they can do a lot faster than a new battle-fleet.
Steve
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Dec 4, 2018 23:17:34 GMT
I do wonder if the British learn from seeing the Republic kicking american in battle and wisely try to avoid war ore that they feel confidant that they are stronger than the Republic in terms of naval power and feel confidant that any battle with them will be a British victory. In the end, they will see what they want to see. They see a naval power that beats on the Americans with seeming impunity. But then again, the Americans don't have their proud traditions and lack sufficient training standards. They of course also don't draw from the right kind of people for their leadership. It won't be helping in terms of confidence (they now have proof that they're not dealing with complete incompetents), but at the same time, these were only a second-rate power.
I don't know here. Britain while it has a strong naval tradition has a small peace-time army and is largely unmilitarised. We're relied on the fleet to keep enemies at bay and we now have a powerful navy - they might not realise it actually outnumbers the RN, just across the channel. Its already shown itself as unfriendly and threatening and the example its just shown with the US will have a lot of people worried about another such attack. There will be concerns about protecting both the civilian population and the important industries as well as the naval and military bases from another such attack. All the while knowing we have to consider protecting the trade route Britain relies on and the remaining colonies. I could see in areas like Jamaica especially there are probably efforts to establish large militias to protect the island against a Dutch landing. This makes the concerns put in place in the "Battle of Dorking" war scare look fairly trivial.
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raunchel
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Post by raunchel on Dec 5, 2018 11:19:43 GMT
It indeed is pretty bad for the Americans. They lost a fair bit of their shipbuilding capacity and ships under construction. One of them, USS Oklahoma, had been launched a few months earlier and is going to be towed off to be finished as a Dutch battleship. At this time, they will really go all-in on construction. They have also taken ARA Moreno which was almost finished at this time. Switching to light forces would probably be the best option at this time, but they still have some battleships left and as an institution, they were incredibly Mahanian. The attack on New York took place less than one and a half hour after the delivery fo the declaration of war. Basically, Wilson was just gathering the cabinet to talk about it and what to do when they were informed that their cities were under attack. War with Britain is very much possible. They are very direct rivals and both are being encouraged by nationalist sentiments. Trade has indeed suffered quite some blows, especially the most important trade of all: food. More than half of the UK's food was imported, with most of it coming from the Americas. Of all that, only Canada is left now. Other than that, their important sources were in Australia and New Zealand, but those can't produce nearly enough. The circles I grew up in have a reputation for being a little grim yes. But that comes with the religious views.
I suspect that while that might have worked in the 1660's its not too practical now. Both because the US is likely to be able to do some sabotage, if only scuttling it in shallow water while the problems of finishing off a foreign design is going to be difficult with no plans and incomparable standards. For instance if their world has developed a widely accepted version of SI standards their unlikely to match this world and the US use imperial anyway so you would have to make just about every fitting by hand and it would probably be a pig to operate and maintain. The Dutch can probably, depending on how long their able to hold the shipyard smash it up enough to make it uneconomical to repair and complete.
Also if they did try and tow it away its going to make whatever tows it vulnerable to subs especially.
Forgot about that. Argentina has gone and some of the tropical producers. Possibly even worse ANZ and rubber from Malaya would be threatened in a war given the Dutch now have the key British colonies along the way. The US is still a valid source of goods, especially while Britain is at peace as their agricultural production hasn't seen any real impact and they will want to sell as much as possible because they will need all the funds they can get their hands on. Might need to be re-routed through Canada and the St Lawrence and could be some nasty clashes in the Atlantic if/when [and I feel it will be when] Britain and the Dutch are at war.
I would also say with all the losses, the chaos on the continent, tension with the new Dutch and what's just happened to the US Britain will be seeking to be on pretty high alert. There will be a determination not to be caught napping as the US was. Which with the homelands so close and the Dutch not accepting how threatening their being makes the chances of war by accident much greater. Probably at least some reserves are being called up and plans made for especially defending India and 'liberating' Ceylon and Aden to reopen a safe route to India and ANZ.
My sympathy's on that last point.
Sorry about the late reply but been rather busy elsewhere today.
The current plan is to re-ruse these ships, but indeed, plenty of trouble will crop up later on. But even then, the loot if worth quite something and Wolters has become quite rich from the prizes and most of the fleet there will see some very nice bonuses. They are dragging away what they can, and indeed, will make the shipyards they take practically useless for quite some time to come. They have also gotten their hands on quite a few designs and the like, which will be very useful to them. The towed ships indeed are vulnerable to subs, but at this time, the US sub fleet was very poorly developed indeed, and for a large part was based in New York. The US will indeed be able to export through Canada, but that will require more infrastructure being built. The railways can't take such an increased amount of traffic. But it can be done, taking just a bit of time and investment. From what I could find, British agriculture in peacetime basically produced half of what was needed. This mostly was the result of some rather bad agricultural policies, but still. It will be hard to force farmers to change, and that too takes a lot of time. The British are indeed calling up reserves and making other preparations. They are feeling quite threatened. In Australia things are a bit worse because parts of the country are gone, and they are basically mobilizing completely. Battlecruiser Geloof, October 28, 1914Dearest Jakoba, Admiral Wolters’ report has finally arrived and a national day of celebration has been declared in honour of his victory. He has destroyed the main strength of the North American fleet and took several of their battleships and sunk the others. He has also taken many more prizes, although a list of damages to neutral ships was also prepared, in order to pay reparations to their owners. In total, the enemy fleet has lost six modern battleships in this attack, along with 5 older ones and 11 destroyers. Of their losses, three battleships were taken, although one had to be scuttled due to damage. Two however are being brought home. Two of the older battleships, two submarines, 4 destroyers, two old cruisers, and a plethora of other ships have been captured. The city has been made to surrender, and local shipyards and industries have been demolished. Furthermore, two unfinished battleships have also been taken. Curiously enough, one of them wasn’t even a North American ship, but one belonging to a nation called Argentine. Our own losses are damage to the Noorderlicht and two of the older battleships. Another older battleship has been sunk along with a cruiser and three destroyers. Other ships have suffered damage in varying degrees. Rear admiral Kleisterlee has fallen in battle at the head of his division. The marines have suffered very heavy losses however, not only in storming enemy fortresses, but also in the streets of the cities. It seems that many civilians took up arms in order to resist. They should see themselves as fortunate that admiral Wolters didn’t order the complete destruction of the city and its population in retaliation. Wolters also reported several other engagements. One was already described by you, at this more southern port, but he has also led part of his fleet further north, in order to strike at a city named Boston. The enemy warships there however fled north and he could only destroy a few of them and shell the naval yards before withdrawing to New York to replenish stocks. He however could tow an unfinished battleship with him, which is to be studied and finished if it can be brought home. Throughout the Carribean, a squadron of light cruisers under rear admiral van Bergen has been unleashed to engage North American shipping and to further disrupt their operations. Tidings such as these should fill every Dutchman with a deep pride in our martial prowess. Please, don’t let such horrible things bring you off your balance. It seems only logical to me that Mrs Gerard was deeply affected by her son’s death. Many peoples lack the moral backbone that defines our great nation and they frequently also don’t have the faith that allows us to be grateful for such things. The English are by their nature a slanderous people, as we have been demonstrated time and time again. I fear that they are the same in this world, strengthening me in my conviction that they are responsible for that underhanded attack on us. Please, pay them no heed. Everything you did was in perfect accordance with all laws and conventions, and you shouldn’t blame yourself. And don’t worry about the Greeks. From what I know they are weak and are directly opposed by the Turk. Should the need come, the Turk will ally with us and we will teach those degenerates a lesson they won’t quickly forget. Your loving father, Johan Rots Berlin, November 1, 1914Dear Father, Thank you so much for writing me about what has happened in the Americas. We received reports from The Hague, but those naturally are far too technical for someone such as me. In order to honour the victory, I hosted a small celebration, inviting our allies. The number of allies has increased, much to my happiness. It seems that Cuba has also declared war on the North Americans, which should give us some useful bases. We have also clarified to the Germans that they ought to consider the coast of these United States of America to be under blockade, and that we will sink or capture any ship within two hundred miles of North American shores. They didn’t seem to be too happy about this, but I told them that we had little choice in the matter and that I hoped that peace would soon be the norm again. I have also spoken to the emperor again, he was very curious about Battle of New York, and I told him a little. Not about our own losses of course, but I did say that we have captured their flagship. He expressed some worries about the city, given that there are many people there of German descent, and I explained to him that unfortunately, we were forced to fight there, mostly by armed civilians. When he asked what he did about that, the answer unfortunately was simple. Anyone out of uniform who raised arms against us was shot, or, if captured, hung. This rather shocked him, so I asked what he would order to have done with any French civilians who would shoot at his men. To that, he nodded in agreement and understanding. We also discussed our aims in this war. Of course, I couldn’t share everything, but I said that we intended to disarm them of larger warships, would take their pacific islands, give Panama to Colombia, remove them from the Carribean and Mexico, and of course, would demand an indemnity for the cost of this war. I also mentioned that we might establish some advantageous trade treaties. In return, he asked me about territorial gains at the cost of the North American mainland. I denied that we have any such ambitions as we don’t require any of those territories for our security. At that, he seemed to frown, and I naturally asked him, purely theoretical of course, what he would have demanded for Germany. He said that he would want to expand his colonial empire and attempt to gain an indemnity. He however didn’t have anything ready in his mind, so I presume that they’re not planning on getting us to join them that way. Uncle Sytze remains ill, there is little in the way of improvement in that regard, but he can fortunately do the basics of his duties. He has been meeting with representatives of the Turk, but naturally, I couldn’t be present. We have been meeting more frequently with representatives from multiple nations in the Caribbean and the Americas. They all appear to be trying to win our favour, although I presume that most of their contact is with our people in Nieuw-Holland. Fortunately, I have been able to achieve something at least. Together with some notable ladies in the city, I have started a fund to care for the orphans and widows that are created by this war. I hope that you can forgive me for donating part of my allowance to this as well. But what matters the most to me is how Mother is doing. She hasn’t written me in days, and I’m so worried. I almost decided to head back home, but I can’t forget my duties. Your faithful daughter, Jakoba
Raunchel
Ouch that is a bad defeat. Coupled with the losses at Norfolk and Boston it could pretty much knock out the USN and much of its production capacity. Going to take a long while for the US to come back from this. Can't see them agreeing to anything like the suggested Dutch terms. Dutch losses are very light if older battleships means pre-dreads which I suspect it does.
A bit surprised that Cuba is going to war with the US as it was only recently liberated from Spanish rule by the US. Could also find a number of those new 'allies' regretting their decisions in the future.
Also that the Germans didn't warn Jakoba that the blockade as mentioned is illegal under the rules of this world and is especially likely to cause problems as there will also be a lot of ships that are passing through the region without stopping at the US. Not to mention a lot of others on the way to or from it that won't know about such a Dutch declaration for quite some time as many ships didn't have radios or at least long ranged ones then. Britain is the only powerful neutral left not at war with someone I think but there are a number of smaller trading nations that are likely to be affected. In fact of they start attacking British MS, and they form about 50-60% of total world shipping at the moment so there's a damned good chance of that, its likely to make war virtually certain. Its not good for the other nations in the other war, especially Germany as without Britain to blockade it and with international rules currently forbidding the sort of actions the Dutch are suggesting they were probably still doing a lot of trade with the US.
Actually carrying out such an operation could be fairly awkward as well as the Atlantic is big and even restricting yourself to 200 miles [would the Dutch use that unit?] from the US shore that's a long reach while its also a long way from Dutch bases. Going to take a lot of time and coal to travel to and from even Cuba/Puerto Rico and you risk having such patrols vulnerable to attack. Especially if the US starts building subs quickly as that's something they can do a lot faster than a new battle-fleet.
Steve
The USN at this time is basically a non-entity. They were uniquely vulnerable in a way that European navy was and were actually quite concentrated in terms of production too. The older battleships indeed are pre-dreads. Dutch losses are relatively light because they basically got the Americans with their pants down. Something like that won't be happening again anytime soon. Dutch terms of course are completely unacceptable. The Dutch are treating them as a basis for negotiation, but they're underestimating American resolve and pride. Which, if I understand things correctly, was a common issue at the time. Everyone was expecting everyone else to quickly fold to superior will and strength. Cuba declared war because there were elements that still were very angry about the 1906 American intervention, including large parts of the armed forces. Together with some Dutch promises, that was enough for them to declare war on someone they see as already having lost the war. In the end, they will see what they want to see. They see a naval power that beats on the Americans with seeming impunity. But then again, the Americans don't have their proud traditions and lack sufficient training standards. They of course also don't draw from the right kind of people for their leadership. It won't be helping in terms of confidence (they now have proof that they're not dealing with complete incompetents), but at the same time, these were only a second-rate power.
I don't know here. Britain while it has a strong naval tradition has a small peace-time army and is largely unmilitarised. We're relied on the fleet to keep enemies at bay and we now have a powerful navy - they might not realise it actually outnumbers the RN, just across the channel. Its already shown itself as unfriendly and threatening and the example its just shown with the US will have a lot of people worried about another such attack. There will be concerns about protecting both the civilian population and the important industries as well as the naval and military bases from another such attack. All the while knowing we have to consider protecting the trade route Britain relies on and the remaining colonies. I could see in areas like Jamaica especially there are probably efforts to establish large militias to protect the island against a Dutch landing. This makes the concerns put in place in the "Battle of Dorking" war scare look fairly trivial.
Let's just say that one Northcliffe is aiming for record sales through fanning the flames of a proper war scare. The British aren't entirely certain about the size of the Dutch fleet here, but they have the certainty that if it combines with the German one, they are outnumbered. Of course, they have gotten their hands on some books and the like that claim almost fifty capital ships, but that doesn't mean that those are seen as completely believable. They however have all the reason in the world to be worried and there also is a lot of spontaneous work being done. The RN also has plenty of reason to be happy, they don't have to worry about funding anymore. |
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raunchel
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Post by raunchel on Dec 5, 2018 11:35:59 GMT
Battlecruiser Geloof, November 5, 1914
Dearest Jakoba,
Your mother is recovering, but she has decided to instead head to Ameland to find some relaxation. Your aunt will be accompanying her. I fear that the postal services from there might complicate matters.
I’m proud of you that despite all the difficulties that you face, you still do your utmost to help those in need and I could never judge you for using your allowance on charity. I however do urge you to be careful with your finances, your mother wouldn’t approve of spending overly much.
Our navy has indeed covered itself in glory with its victory off New York, and has only followed it by more victories. There has been another engagement around Hampton Roads, this time led by our actual fleet as it was steaming back south. The North Americans had abandoned their port, seemingly afraid of our forces, and admiral Wolters destroyed the local shipbuilding capacity. He also took one more battleship that was under construction and several smaller ones.
From what I gather, the enemy has lost at least eight modern battleships, which should leave them sufficiently crippled to be forced to sue for peace. On the western shores of North America, rear admiral Hendrikse aboard the Genade is cruising along the coast and has taken many prizes. He has also destroyed minor yards but had to withdraw without engaging any enemy fleet.
I have received word that admiral Oude Luttinkhuis has reached Formosa and is preparing his force for the attack that should take place within a few days.
Your loving father,
Johan Rots
Berlin, November 8, 1914
Dear Father,
It’s good to hear that Mother is going to one of the islands, it is a good place to recuperate and I wish that I could join her there. Unfortunately, the clash of my duties makes it impossible to obey all the demands placed upon me.
The mood in Berlin remains mixed. There has been dejection because the German advance has been forced back by the French, with what seems like incredibly losses on both sides. But there has been another victory over the Russians in forcing the Vistula, and the Germans are now on the outskirts of Warsaw.
It also is excellent to hear that the North Americans have suffered almost complete destruction as a naval power. It seems to have have made an impression on our hosts as well, they now treat us with more care, or so it seems to me at least. I believe that it is because we are now seen as an actual power, and not merely as a potential one.
I’ve heard a little about the investigation from lieutenant van der Bilt. He believes that the Germans are completely innocent as nothing, not even a hint pointing to their involvement, has been uncovered. I however don’t know about the English investigation.
There however has been another meeting with the English. Fortunately, ambassador Luns has taken up his position in London, and based on what I hear, he has been placed in a difficult position and the English press insists on mocking him, so this leaves communications difficult.
Anyways, Sir Edward invited us to discuss the matter of the North American war. It seems that the English are rather worried over it, and especially about our blockade of enemy ports. He explained that they believe that any and all shipping heading to their colonies there should be left unmolested, and naturally, I promised that we wouldn’t harm neutral shipping to neutral ports.
The heart of the matter however is something different. Like we do, the English import the majority of their food. And in their case, most of it used to come from the Americas. Naturally, they already lost their South American sources, which seem to have been coming mostly from Nieuw-Vlaanderen and further south, but another important part is the import of wheat and related products from North America. Naturally, they are rather worried now that we are basically stopping these exports of food.
Sir Edward said that it was something that his government truly worried about. I can understand the sentiment, although it surprises me that they didn’t make efforts to produce most of their food within their empire. But, they appear to have been rather short-sighted in that regard.
They require that we either allow the North Americans to still export food, or that we ourselves provide the necessary amounts to feed their population. Of course, we can’t possibly let our enemies still have their commerce, so I said that we would of course do nothing to stop the trade in food once they have asked for terms. But I would ask The Hague if there were some surpluses that could be sent to the English.
Naturally, I wrote The Hague about it with a recommendation to look into this as a strategy should it come to war. I believe that without food, the English will rapidly collapse. Of course, it is a weakness that we also suffer from, which is why Uncle Sytze wrote in this letter that we should aim to build stockpiles to last the length of such a war.
Now, I will return to the planning of the reception to celebrate my birthday. Many invitations have been sent out and accepted already, and it will be such a splendid little celebration!
Your faithful daughter,
Jakoba
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Dec 5, 2018 15:06:58 GMT
Battlecruiser Geloof, November 5, 1914Dearest Jakoba, Your mother is recovering, but she has decided to instead head to Ameland to find some relaxation. Your aunt will be accompanying her. I fear that the postal services from there might complicate matters. I’m proud of you that despite all the difficulties that you face, you still do your utmost to help those in need and I could never judge you for using your allowance on charity. I however do urge you to be careful with your finances, your mother wouldn’t approve of spending overly much. Our navy has indeed covered itself in glory with its victory off New York, and has only followed it by more victories. There has been another engagement around Hampton Roads, this time led by our actual fleet as it was steaming back south. The North Americans had abandoned their port, seemingly afraid of our forces, and admiral Wolters destroyed the local shipbuilding capacity. He also took one more battleship that was under construction and several smaller ones. From what I gather, the enemy has lost at least eight modern battleships, which should leave them sufficiently crippled to be forced to sue for peace. On the western shores of North America, rear admiral Hendrikse aboard the Genade is cruising along the coast and has taken many prizes. He has also destroyed minor yards but had to withdraw without engaging any enemy fleet. I have received word that admiral Oude Luttinkhuis has reached Formosa and is preparing his force for the attack that should take place within a few days. Your loving father, Johan Rots Berlin, November 8, 1914Dear Father, It’s good to hear that Mother is going to one of the islands, it is a good place to recuperate and I wish that I could join her there. Unfortunately, the clash of my duties makes it impossible to obey all the demands placed upon me. The mood in Berlin remains mixed. There has been dejection because the German advance has been forced back by the French, with what seems like incredibly losses on both sides. But there has been another victory over the Russians in forcing the Vistula, and the Germans are now on the outskirts of Warsaw. It also is excellent to hear that the North Americans have suffered almost complete destruction as a naval power. It seems to have have made an impression on our hosts as well, they now treat us with more care, or so it seems to me at least. I believe that it is because we are now seen as an actual power, and not merely as a potential one. I’ve heard a little about the investigation from lieutenant van der Bilt. He believes that the Germans are completely innocent as nothing, not even a hint pointing to their involvement, has been uncovered. I however don’t know about the English investigation. There however has been another meeting with the English. Fortunately, ambassador Luns has taken up his position in London, and based on what I hear, he has been placed in a difficult position and the English press insists on mocking him, so this leaves communications difficult. Anyways, Sir Edward invited us to discuss the matter of the North American war. It seems that the English are rather worried over it, and especially about our blockade of enemy ports. He explained that they believe that any and all shipping heading to their colonies there should be left unmolested, and naturally, I promised that we wouldn’t harm neutral shipping to neutral ports. The heart of the matter however is something different. Like we do, the English import the majority of their food. And in their case, most of it used to come from the Americas. Naturally, they already lost their South American sources, which seem to have been coming mostly from Nieuw-Vlaanderen and further south, but another important part is the import of wheat and related products from North America. Naturally, they are rather worried now that we are basically stopping these exports of food. Sir Edward said that it was something that his government truly worried about. I can understand the sentiment, although it surprises me that they didn’t make efforts to produce most of their food within their empire. But, they appear to have been rather short-sighted in that regard. They require that we either allow the North Americans to still export food, or that we ourselves provide the necessary amounts to feed their population. Of course, we can’t possibly let our enemies still have their commerce, so I said that we would of course do nothing to stop the trade in food once they have asked for terms. But I would ask The Hague if there were some surpluses that could be sent to the English. Naturally, I wrote The Hague about it with a recommendation to look into this as a strategy should it come to war. I believe that without food, the English will rapidly collapse. Of course, it is a weakness that we also suffer from, which is why Uncle Sytze wrote in this letter that we should aim to build stockpiles to last the length of such a war. Now, I will return to the planning of the reception to celebrate my birthday. Many invitations have been sent out and accepted already, and it will be such a splendid little celebration! Your faithful daughter, Jakoba Great Update raunchelSo another victory for the Republic in the Battle of Hampton Roads. |
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Post by eurowatch on Dec 5, 2018 15:08:23 GMT
Battlecruiser Geloof, November 5, 1914Dearest Jakoba, Your mother is recovering, but she has decided to instead head to Ameland to find some relaxation. Your aunt will be accompanying her. I fear that the postal services from there might complicate matters. I’m proud of you that despite all the difficulties that you face, you still do your utmost to help those in need and I could never judge you for using your allowance on charity. I however do urge you to be careful with your finances, your mother wouldn’t approve of spending overly much. Our navy has indeed covered itself in glory with its victory off New York, and has only followed it by more victories. There has been another engagement around Hampton Roads, this time led by our actual fleet as it was steaming back south. The North Americans had abandoned their port, seemingly afraid of our forces, and admiral Wolters destroyed the local shipbuilding capacity. He also took one more battleship that was under construction and several smaller ones. From what I gather, the enemy has lost at least eight modern battleships, which should leave them sufficiently crippled to be forced to sue for peace. On the western shores of North America, rear admiral Hendrikse aboard the Genade is cruising along the coast and has taken many prizes. He has also destroyed minor yards but had to withdraw without engaging any enemy fleet. I have received word that admiral Oude Luttinkhuis has reached Formosa and is preparing his force for the attack that should take place within a few days. Your loving father, Johan Rots Berlin, November 8, 1914Dear Father, It’s good to hear that Mother is going to one of the islands, it is a good place to recuperate and I wish that I could join her there. Unfortunately, the clash of my duties makes it impossible to obey all the demands placed upon me. The mood in Berlin remains mixed. There has been dejection because the German advance has been forced back by the French, with what seems like incredibly losses on both sides. But there has been another victory over the Russians in forcing the Vistula, and the Germans are now on the outskirts of Warsaw.It also is excellent to hear that the North Americans have suffered almost complete destruction as a naval power. It seems to have have made an impression on our hosts as well, they now treat us with more care, or so it seems to me at least. I believe that it is because we are now seen as an actual power, and not merely as a potential one. I’ve heard a little about the investigation from lieutenant van der Bilt. He believes that the Germans are completely innocent as nothing, not even a hint pointing to their involvement, has been uncovered. I however don’t know about the English investigation. There however has been another meeting with the English. Fortunately, ambassador Luns has taken up his position in London, and based on what I hear, he has been placed in a difficult position and the English press insists on mocking him, so this leaves communications difficult. Anyways, Sir Edward invited us to discuss the matter of the North American war. It seems that the English are rather worried over it, and especially about our blockade of enemy ports. He explained that they believe that any and all shipping heading to their colonies there should be left unmolested, and naturally, I promised that we wouldn’t harm neutral shipping to neutral ports. The heart of the matter however is something different. Like we do, the English import the majority of their food. And in their case, most of it used to come from the Americas. Naturally, they already lost their South American sources, which seem to have been coming mostly from Nieuw-Vlaanderen and further south, but another important part is the import of wheat and related products from North America. Naturally, they are rather worried now that we are basically stopping these exports of food. Sir Edward said that it was something that his government truly worried about. I can understand the sentiment, although it surprises me that they didn’t make efforts to produce most of their food within their empire. But, they appear to have been rather short-sighted in that regard. They require that we either allow the North Americans to still export food, or that we ourselves provide the necessary amounts to feed their population. Of course, we can’t possibly let our enemies still have their commerce, so I said that we would of course do nothing to stop the trade in food once they have asked for terms. But I would ask The Hague if there were some surpluses that could be sent to the English. Naturally, I wrote The Hague about it with a recommendation to look into this as a strategy should it come to war. I believe that without food, the English will rapidly collapse. Of course, it is a weakness that we also suffer from, which is why Uncle Sytze wrote in this letter that we should aim to build stockpiles to last the length of such a war. Now, I will return to the planning of the reception to celebrate my birthday. Many invitations have been sent out and accepted already, and it will be such a splendid little celebration! Your faithful daughter, Jakoba It pleases me to see Our great country claiming such impressive victories over the Americans. Unfortantly I fear that the war Will soon develop into a stalemate With niether side being able to do much damage against each beside the occasional Dutch raid or shelling of American cities. And a mistake I caught is Jakoba's mention of the Germans forcing the Vistula and nearing Warzawa. Considering Warzawa is on the western side of the Vistula, Crossing it would put the Germans on the wrong side of the river. |
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raunchel
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Post by raunchel on Dec 5, 2018 15:21:48 GMT
Battlecruiser Geloof, November 5, 1914Dearest Jakoba, Your mother is recovering, but she has decided to instead head to Ameland to find some relaxation. Your aunt will be accompanying her. I fear that the postal services from there might complicate matters. I’m proud of you that despite all the difficulties that you face, you still do your utmost to help those in need and I could never judge you for using your allowance on charity. I however do urge you to be careful with your finances, your mother wouldn’t approve of spending overly much. Our navy has indeed covered itself in glory with its victory off New York, and has only followed it by more victories. There has been another engagement around Hampton Roads, this time led by our actual fleet as it was steaming back south. The North Americans had abandoned their port, seemingly afraid of our forces, and admiral Wolters destroyed the local shipbuilding capacity. He also took one more battleship that was under construction and several smaller ones. From what I gather, the enemy has lost at least eight modern battleships, which should leave them sufficiently crippled to be forced to sue for peace. On the western shores of North America, rear admiral Hendrikse aboard the Genade is cruising along the coast and has taken many prizes. He has also destroyed minor yards but had to withdraw without engaging any enemy fleet. I have received word that admiral Oude Luttinkhuis has reached Formosa and is preparing his force for the attack that should take place within a few days. Your loving father, Johan Rots Berlin, November 8, 1914Dear Father, It’s good to hear that Mother is going to one of the islands, it is a good place to recuperate and I wish that I could join her there. Unfortunately, the clash of my duties makes it impossible to obey all the demands placed upon me. The mood in Berlin remains mixed. There has been dejection because the German advance has been forced back by the French, with what seems like incredibly losses on both sides. But there has been another victory over the Russians in forcing the Vistula, and the Germans are now on the outskirts of Warsaw. It also is excellent to hear that the North Americans have suffered almost complete destruction as a naval power. It seems to have have made an impression on our hosts as well, they now treat us with more care, or so it seems to me at least. I believe that it is because we are now seen as an actual power, and not merely as a potential one. I’ve heard a little about the investigation from lieutenant van der Bilt. He believes that the Germans are completely innocent as nothing, not even a hint pointing to their involvement, has been uncovered. I however don’t know about the English investigation. There however has been another meeting with the English. Fortunately, ambassador Luns has taken up his position in London, and based on what I hear, he has been placed in a difficult position and the English press insists on mocking him, so this leaves communications difficult. Anyways, Sir Edward invited us to discuss the matter of the North American war. It seems that the English are rather worried over it, and especially about our blockade of enemy ports. He explained that they believe that any and all shipping heading to their colonies there should be left unmolested, and naturally, I promised that we wouldn’t harm neutral shipping to neutral ports. The heart of the matter however is something different. Like we do, the English import the majority of their food. And in their case, most of it used to come from the Americas. Naturally, they already lost their South American sources, which seem to have been coming mostly from Nieuw-Vlaanderen and further south, but another important part is the import of wheat and related products from North America. Naturally, they are rather worried now that we are basically stopping these exports of food. Sir Edward said that it was something that his government truly worried about. I can understand the sentiment, although it surprises me that they didn’t make efforts to produce most of their food within their empire. But, they appear to have been rather short-sighted in that regard. They require that we either allow the North Americans to still export food, or that we ourselves provide the necessary amounts to feed their population. Of course, we can’t possibly let our enemies still have their commerce, so I said that we would of course do nothing to stop the trade in food once they have asked for terms. But I would ask The Hague if there were some surpluses that could be sent to the English. Naturally, I wrote The Hague about it with a recommendation to look into this as a strategy should it come to war. I believe that without food, the English will rapidly collapse. Of course, it is a weakness that we also suffer from, which is why Uncle Sytze wrote in this letter that we should aim to build stockpiles to last the length of such a war. Now, I will return to the planning of the reception to celebrate my birthday. Many invitations have been sent out and accepted already, and it will be such a splendid little celebration! Your faithful daughter, Jakoba Great Update raunchel So another victory for the Republic in the Battle of Hampton Roads. Thanks. Hampton Roads is a victory yes, but it's one of the mopping up kind. It was just another strike to deal with the remnants of the USN. Only a few ships in Philadelphia and Boston are left. Philadelphia was considered to be too sheltered to attack immediately, and the major warships from Boston managed to flee, leaving the city behind. Battlecruiser Geloof, November 5, 1914Dearest Jakoba, Your mother is recovering, but she has decided to instead head to Ameland to find some relaxation. Your aunt will be accompanying her. I fear that the postal services from there might complicate matters. I’m proud of you that despite all the difficulties that you face, you still do your utmost to help those in need and I could never judge you for using your allowance on charity. I however do urge you to be careful with your finances, your mother wouldn’t approve of spending overly much. Our navy has indeed covered itself in glory with its victory off New York, and has only followed it by more victories. There has been another engagement around Hampton Roads, this time led by our actual fleet as it was steaming back south. The North Americans had abandoned their port, seemingly afraid of our forces, and admiral Wolters destroyed the local shipbuilding capacity. He also took one more battleship that was under construction and several smaller ones. From what I gather, the enemy has lost at least eight modern battleships, which should leave them sufficiently crippled to be forced to sue for peace. On the western shores of North America, rear admiral Hendrikse aboard the Genade is cruising along the coast and has taken many prizes. He has also destroyed minor yards but had to withdraw without engaging any enemy fleet. I have received word that admiral Oude Luttinkhuis has reached Formosa and is preparing his force for the attack that should take place within a few days. Your loving father, Johan Rots Berlin, November 8, 1914Dear Father, It’s good to hear that Mother is going to one of the islands, it is a good place to recuperate and I wish that I could join her there. Unfortunately, the clash of my duties makes it impossible to obey all the demands placed upon me. The mood in Berlin remains mixed. There has been dejection because the German advance has been forced back by the French, with what seems like incredibly losses on both sides. But there has been another victory over the Russians in forcing the Vistula, and the Germans are now on the outskirts of Warsaw.It also is excellent to hear that the North Americans have suffered almost complete destruction as a naval power. It seems to have have made an impression on our hosts as well, they now treat us with more care, or so it seems to me at least. I believe that it is because we are now seen as an actual power, and not merely as a potential one. I’ve heard a little about the investigation from lieutenant van der Bilt. He believes that the Germans are completely innocent as nothing, not even a hint pointing to their involvement, has been uncovered. I however don’t know about the English investigation. There however has been another meeting with the English. Fortunately, ambassador Luns has taken up his position in London, and based on what I hear, he has been placed in a difficult position and the English press insists on mocking him, so this leaves communications difficult. Anyways, Sir Edward invited us to discuss the matter of the North American war. It seems that the English are rather worried over it, and especially about our blockade of enemy ports. He explained that they believe that any and all shipping heading to their colonies there should be left unmolested, and naturally, I promised that we wouldn’t harm neutral shipping to neutral ports. The heart of the matter however is something different. Like we do, the English import the majority of their food. And in their case, most of it used to come from the Americas. Naturally, they already lost their South American sources, which seem to have been coming mostly from Nieuw-Vlaanderen and further south, but another important part is the import of wheat and related products from North America. Naturally, they are rather worried now that we are basically stopping these exports of food. Sir Edward said that it was something that his government truly worried about. I can understand the sentiment, although it surprises me that they didn’t make efforts to produce most of their food within their empire. But, they appear to have been rather short-sighted in that regard. They require that we either allow the North Americans to still export food, or that we ourselves provide the necessary amounts to feed their population. Of course, we can’t possibly let our enemies still have their commerce, so I said that we would of course do nothing to stop the trade in food once they have asked for terms. But I would ask The Hague if there were some surpluses that could be sent to the English. Naturally, I wrote The Hague about it with a recommendation to look into this as a strategy should it come to war. I believe that without food, the English will rapidly collapse. Of course, it is a weakness that we also suffer from, which is why Uncle Sytze wrote in this letter that we should aim to build stockpiles to last the length of such a war. Now, I will return to the planning of the reception to celebrate my birthday. Many invitations have been sent out and accepted already, and it will be such a splendid little celebration! Your faithful daughter, Jakoba It pleases me to see Our great country claiming such impressive victories over the Americans. Unfortantly I fear that the war Will soon develop into a stalemate With niether side being able to do much damage against each beside the occasional Dutch raid or shelling of American cities. And a mistake I caught is Jakoba's mention of the Germans forcing the Vistula and nearing Warzawa. Considering Warzawa is on the western side of the Vistula, Crossing it would put the Germans on the wrong side of the river. The war will indeed soon come to a halt except for skirmishes. There isn't too much that can be achieved by the Dutch at this point. And the Americans really aren't in a position to challenge them at sea anymore. With the Vistula, I mean that the Germans reached it south of Warsaw, because of greater success from a stronger 9th army (and the Austrians being propped up). This means that they could advance further, and actually forced the Vistula. This puts them further to the east, and places Warsaw in a salient. Of course, the Russians aren't done for and have a lot of fight left in them. They're just facing more Germans because they switched some of the troops for the Belgian offensives to the east. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Dec 5, 2018 15:59:09 GMT
Great Update raunchel So another victory for the Republic in the Battle of Hampton Roads. Thanks. Hampton Roads is a victory yes, but it's one of the mopping up kind. It was just another strike to deal with the remnants of the USN. Only a few ships in Philadelphia and Boston are left. Philadelphia was considered to be too sheltered to attack immediately, and the major warships from Boston managed to flee, leaving the city behind. It pleases me to see Our great country claiming such impressive victories over the Americans. Unfortantly I fear that the war Will soon develop into a stalemate With niether side being able to do much damage against each beside the occasional Dutch raid or shelling of American cities. And a mistake I caught is Jakoba's mention of the Germans forcing the Vistula and nearing Warzawa. Considering Warzawa is on the western side of the Vistula, Crossing it would put the Germans on the wrong side of the river. The war will indeed soon come to a halt except for skirmishes. There isn't too much that can be achieved by the Dutch at this point. And the Americans really aren't in a position to challenge them at sea anymore. With the Vistula, I mean that the Germans reached it south of Warsaw, because of greater success from a stronger 9th army (and the Austrians being propped up). This means that they could advance further, and actually forced the Vistula. This puts them further to the east, and places Warsaw in a salient. Of course, the Russians aren't done for and have a lot of fight left in them. They're just facing more Germans because they switched some of the troops for the Belgian offensives to the east.
The one good thing for the Russians here compared to OTL is that with more German troops coming their way and the French going comparably better as they haven't been hammered by the attack through Belgium the Russians are less likely to be making offensive to take pressure off the French and more likely to withdraw eastwards, saving men and lengthening the German supply lines. Plus with an actual German invasion you could see more rallying around Mother Russia. Its quite possible that even without British involvement it could be a long war and one that the EPs might still even win, although an Ottoman dow, which is going to be very likely I suspect would make that markedly more difficult. A lot might depend on what Italy does but hopefully it will stay neutral.
Of course the down side for the Dutch in applying their own rules for commercial war rather than those of the world that they find themselves in is that those same rules could be applied against them. Which given the geographical position of Britain and the Netherlands could really have an impact on their trade provided that the RN could avoid being drawn into a big battle at the wrong time. 
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raunchel
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Post by raunchel on Dec 5, 2018 16:06:10 GMT
Thanks. Hampton Roads is a victory yes, but it's one of the mopping up kind. It was just another strike to deal with the remnants of the USN. Only a few ships in Philadelphia and Boston are left. Philadelphia was considered to be too sheltered to attack immediately, and the major warships from Boston managed to flee, leaving the city behind. The war will indeed soon come to a halt except for skirmishes. There isn't too much that can be achieved by the Dutch at this point. And the Americans really aren't in a position to challenge them at sea anymore. With the Vistula, I mean that the Germans reached it south of Warsaw, because of greater success from a stronger 9th army (and the Austrians being propped up). This means that they could advance further, and actually forced the Vistula. This puts them further to the east, and places Warsaw in a salient. Of course, the Russians aren't done for and have a lot of fight left in them. They're just facing more Germans because they switched some of the troops for the Belgian offensives to the east.
The one good thing for the Russians here compared to OTL is that with more German troops coming their way and the French going comparably better as they haven't been hammered by the attack through Belgium the Russians are less likely to be making offensive to take pressure off the French and more likely to withdraw eastwards, saving men and lengthening the German supply lines. Plus with an actual German invasion you could see more rallying around Mother Russia. Its quite possible that even without British involvement it could be a long war and one that the EPs might still even win, although an Ottoman dow, which is going to be very likely I suspect would make that markedly more difficult. A lot might depend on what Italy does but hopefully it will stay neutral.
Of course the down side for the Dutch in applying their own rules for commercial war rather than those of the world that they find themselves in is that those same rules could be applied against them. Which given the geographical position of Britain and the Netherlands could really have an impact on their trade provided that the RN could avoid being drawn into a big battle at the wrong time.
And there you have the heart of the Dutch problem. Because there were serious naval rivalries in the world they're from, it's much more acceptable to go against shipping. And here, you have several powers in close proximity that all rely on their merchant fleet for food supplies. That will lead to a lot of trouble on the home front... The Russians are taking a beating, but you're right. They're under less pressure and can actually withdraw to better bases (everything west of Warsaw for instance used European gauge, which makes things more difficult. The Austrians are still beating their head against a sharpened and poisoned rock in Serbia, and the French front is turning into a very densely-packed bloodbath. It can still be a long war, but as you say, there are lots of options there. |
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Dec 5, 2018 18:30:22 GMT
The one good thing for the Russians here compared to OTL is that with more German troops coming their way and the French going comparably better as they haven't been hammered by the attack through Belgium the Russians are less likely to be making offensive to take pressure off the French and more likely to withdraw eastwards, saving men and lengthening the German supply lines. Plus with an actual German invasion you could see more rallying around Mother Russia. Its quite possible that even without British involvement it could be a long war and one that the EPs might still even win, although an Ottoman dow, which is going to be very likely I suspect would make that markedly more difficult. A lot might depend on what Italy does but hopefully it will stay neutral. Of course the down side for the Dutch in applying their own rules for commercial war rather than those of the world that they find themselves in is that those same rules could be applied against them. Which given the geographical position of Britain and the Netherlands could really have an impact on their trade provided that the RN could avoid being drawn into a big battle at the wrong time. And there you have the heart of the Dutch problem. Because there were serious naval rivalries in the world they're from, it's much more acceptable to go against shipping. And here, you have several powers in close proximity that all rely on their merchant fleet for food supplies. That will lead to a lot of trouble on the home front... The Russians are taking a beating, but you're right. They're under less pressure and can actually withdraw to better bases (everything west of Warsaw for instance used European gauge, which makes things more difficult. The Austrians are still beating their head against a sharpened and poisoned rock in Serbia, and the French front is turning into a very densely-packed bloodbath. It can still be a long war, but as you say, there are lots of options there. I wonder, the Germans would love to get access true the Republic and move into France, but they might be fearful of the repercussions like the United States declaring war on them if they do so. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Dec 5, 2018 21:49:11 GMT
And there you have the heart of the Dutch problem. Because there were serious naval rivalries in the world they're from, it's much more acceptable to go against shipping. And here, you have several powers in close proximity that all rely on their merchant fleet for food supplies. That will lead to a lot of trouble on the home front... The Russians are taking a beating, but you're right. They're under less pressure and can actually withdraw to better bases (everything west of Warsaw for instance used European gauge, which makes things more difficult. The Austrians are still beating their head against a sharpened and poisoned rock in Serbia, and the French front is turning into a very densely-packed bloodbath. It can still be a long war, but as you say, there are lots of options there. I wonder, the Germans would love to get access true the Republic and move into France, but they might be fearful of the repercussions like the United States declaring war on them if they do so.
I can't really see the US being a factor here. It might declare war but in OTL 1917 the Germans - or at least the military leadership was convinced they could win before the US could become significant - either by USW or by defeating the allies in France. Here the US is looking a lot weaker with the bulk of its navy - or at least what people would count as its strength - destroyed and it reeling from the surprise Dutch attack and a number of powers joining in against it.
The issue might be Dutch willingness to put it's head into that grinder as they seem somewhat shocked by the size of the other continental armies and the casualties being taken. While they have a huge navy their army, at least in Europe doesn't seem that large. Also, although such an agreement might well be fatal for France if the latter was taken by surprise - which it might be - it would almost certainly forces Britain into the war against the CP's bloc. While a Dutch-German combination would be hugely dangerous to Britain, especially when the empires are taken into account - both British losses and the size of the Dutch empire - it would be better facing that in alliance with the opponents of the two powers.
Plus the Germans have already pulled at least some forces away to face France on their common border or Russia in the east so they might not have a massive amount still ready. Not to mention the Dutch could be reluctant to allow such a large forces to march through their homeland and it would have to march with the incompatible rail lines. That actually could be a serious problem in such a combination as German forces operating in NE France via the Netherlands would have to switch from common gauge to Dutch gauge then back to common again which would cause some problems.
Steve
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Post by eurowatch on Dec 6, 2018 7:16:25 GMT
It pleases me to see Our great country claiming such impressive victories over the Americans. Unfortantly I fear that the war Will soon develop into a stalemate With niether side being able to do much damage against each beside the occasional Dutch raid or shelling of American cities. And a mistake I caught is Jakoba's mention of the Germans forcing the Vistula and nearing Warzawa. Considering Warzawa is on the western side of the Vistula, Crossing it would put the Germans on the wrong side of the river. The war will indeed soon come to a halt except for skirmishes. There isn't too much that can be achieved by the Dutch at this point. And the Americans really aren't in a position to challenge them at sea anymore. With the Vistula, I mean that the Germans reached it south of Warsaw, because of greater success from a stronger 9th army (and the Austrians being propped up). This means that they could advance further, and actually forced the Vistula. This puts them further to the east, and places Warsaw in a salient. Of course, the Russians aren't done for and have a lot of fight left in them. They're just facing more Germans because they switched some of the troops for the Belgian offensives to the east. And that is also kind of the crux of the problem, as long as the Americans are not decisivly defeated on the battlefield they won't think they are defeated. Four years of constant Dutch raids and the navy either cowering in its ports or being constantly defeated Will prove nothing to the public aside from that the navy is incompetent. And when the government finally Agrees to at least some of the terms it Will spark an outrage, the United States are not defeated, so why should they pretend they are? In that kind of enviroment you Will get an American "stabbed in the back" myth. Ah, I see. While I don't think the Russians would be in good posistion even without the German reinforcements considering their backwardsness (at the beginning of the war they had two ambulances in the entire army) it makes sense that they would be in a worse posistion here. |
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raunchel
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Post by raunchel on Dec 6, 2018 8:33:07 GMT
And there you have the heart of the Dutch problem. Because there were serious naval rivalries in the world they're from, it's much more acceptable to go against shipping. And here, you have several powers in close proximity that all rely on their merchant fleet for food supplies. That will lead to a lot of trouble on the home front... The Russians are taking a beating, but you're right. They're under less pressure and can actually withdraw to better bases (everything west of Warsaw for instance used European gauge, which makes things more difficult. The Austrians are still beating their head against a sharpened and poisoned rock in Serbia, and the French front is turning into a very densely-packed bloodbath. It can still be a long war, but as you say, there are lots of options there. I wonder, the Germans would love to get access true the Republic and move into France, but they might be fearful of the repercussions like the United States declaring war on them if they do so. I wonder, the Germans would love to get access true the Republic and move into France, but they might be fearful of the repercussions like the United States declaring war on them if they do so.
I can't really see the US being a factor here. It might declare war but in OTL 1917 the Germans - or at least the military leadership was convinced they could win before the US could become significant - either by USW or by defeating the allies in France. Here the US is looking a lot weaker with the bulk of its navy - or at least what people would count as its strength - destroyed and it reeling from the surprise Dutch attack and a number of powers joining in against it.
The issue might be Dutch willingness to put it's head into that grinder as they seem somewhat shocked by the size of the other continental armies and the casualties being taken. While they have a huge navy their army, at least in Europe doesn't seem that large. Also, although such an agreement might well be fatal for France if the latter was taken by surprise - which it might be - it would almost certainly forces Britain into the war against the CP's bloc. While a Dutch-German combination would be hugely dangerous to Britain, especially when the empires are taken into account - both British losses and the size of the Dutch empire - it would be better facing that in alliance with the opponents of the two powers.
Plus the Germans have already pulled at least some forces away to face France on their common border or Russia in the east so they might not have a massive amount still ready. Not to mention the Dutch could be reluctant to allow such a large forces to march through their homeland and it would have to march with the incompatible rail lines. That actually could be a serious problem in such a combination as German forces operating in NE France via the Netherlands would have to switch from common gauge to Dutch gauge then back to common again which would cause some problems.
Steve
The USA isn't really what worries them at this point. After all, they don't really have all that much left in terms of means to project force. They have a small army, and even if they expand it, they can't send it across the ocean without taking the risk that it gets sunk on the way to France. The German worry in this regard would be about the British. The Dutch joining the Central Powers means that the British have to fight now. If they wait for their allies to be beaten, they will be all alone on their island and face an actual threat of invasion with the Dutch navy forcing the way to land the German army in England. The fear of invasion is the ultimate driving force of a lot of British paranoia, so they have to act. The Germans going through the Netherlands to get at France would get complicated. The railways aren't compatible, seriously slowing them down. At the same time, the French are by now well aware that the Germans would do exactly that and have preparations for a counterattack. Added to that, as Steven mentions, no one likes having a few million troops camping in your country when you don't know enough to have built up any kind of trust. The war will indeed soon come to a halt except for skirmishes. There isn't too much that can be achieved by the Dutch at this point. And the Americans really aren't in a position to challenge them at sea anymore. With the Vistula, I mean that the Germans reached it south of Warsaw, because of greater success from a stronger 9th army (and the Austrians being propped up). This means that they could advance further, and actually forced the Vistula. This puts them further to the east, and places Warsaw in a salient. Of course, the Russians aren't done for and have a lot of fight left in them. They're just facing more Germans because they switched some of the troops for the Belgian offensives to the east. And that is also kind of the crux of the problem, as long as the Americans are not decisivly defeated on the battlefield they won't think they are defeated. Four years of constant Dutch raids and the navy either cowering in its ports or being constantly defeated Will prove nothing to the public aside from that the navy is incompetent. And when the government finally Agrees to at least some of the terms it Will spark an outrage, the United States are not defeated, so why should they pretend they are? In that kind of enviroment you Will get an American "stabbed in the back" myth. Ah, I see. While I don't think the Russians would be in good posistion even without the German reinforcements considering their backwardsness (at the beginning of the war they had two ambulances in the entire army) it makes sense that they would be in a worse posistion here. Yes, and no politician will want to be the one to throw in the towel. Furthermore, even a white peace would be a difficult sell. The Americans feel humiliated and angry and the longer the war lasts, the more lives have been lost. Even if a president who knows that he won't be re-elected anyways tries to make peace, Congress just won't allow it. The Dutch also can't give in, they have after all won their victories. That means that the war can't end with them giving up anything even vaguely relevant, especially without important concessions. |
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raunchel
Commander
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Post by raunchel on Dec 6, 2018 8:33:36 GMT
Battlecruiser Geloof, November 12, 1914
Dearest Jakoba,
Happy birthday! I can still remember you when you were born, a mere twenty-one years ago. I had never imagined that you would have graced our newspapers and performed such duties for your country. I’m also happy to see you in correspondence with a fine young man, and hope that you will find someone suitable for marriage.
Please, don’t worry yourself over your responsibility towards your mother. She is in good hands and she herself has told me that she is proud of what you are doing and all the responsibilities you are taking. She is enjoying the cool sea air and has written me that she has enjoyed the storms, feeling like the wind has taken her worries away.
The English weakness is one we should indeed keep in mind, but it is one we also suffer from. You shouldn’t forget that the majority of our food comes from abroad, and I fear that we won’t be able to lean on European suppliers should war come. That means that it will be vital to quickly destroy the English fleet, should the need come.
Word from the Americas is that Wolters has apparently not withdrawn completely from New York, but has instead ordered more troops to be delivered there, in order to hold the city to force the North Americans to sue for terms. Personally, I believe that it is a good thing to hold enemy territory, but fear that it is too distant to hold in the face of a nation with tens of millions of inhabitants.
Admiral Oude Luttinkhuis has moved north to Japan, but we don’t yet have word about his findings. I pray for your good health and that of those poor people there.
Your loving father,
Johan Rots
Berlin, November 15, 1914
Dear Father,
Thank you for your kind words. I know that I don’t deserve them, but they still warm my heart. I’m certain that you heard about the good news that came as the most welcome gift on my birthday, the Chilean government finally seeing reality and asking for terms. I pray that the wars in the Americas can soon come to an end.
The celebration was wonderful. Everyone who matters in the city was here, including the emperor and several princes. One of them seemed besotted and I presume had had a bit too much to drink, and actually asked me to marry him! Naturally, I refused as politely as I could.
There however is something that is far more worrying. Uncle Sytze was told that our embassy in Madrid has been able to obtain certain documents from the German naval attaché, through his mistress. It’s painful that such methods have to be used, but it seems that this naval attaché held documents pointing to German involvement in the attack on our fleet. It seems strange to me, unbelievable even, if only because their emperor doesn’t seem to be a good liar, and he would have to know about such things.
Naturally, I have made enquiries about these revelations, without drawing attention of course. I have also briefly spoken to our own military attachés about this, but at least van der Bilt seems to find this believable. I personally have been unable to obtain any kind of supporting evidence.
I have also had the good fortune of making a new friend. Together with Karen, I attended a lecture on women’s education. There, I met with a young woman named Elsbeth, who was very excited to meet me. She told me that she was one of the first women to achieve her doctorate in Germany, and has a deep interest in politics, leading to an excellent conversation for the three of us. What truly surprised me however is that she actually speaks a little Dutch!
It however seems that there is far less demand now for lectures, and given our understaffed nature and the incredibly workload Karen is under, I decided to offer Elsbeth a position in helping me in my many tasks. Of course, not the sensitive parts, but there are so many things that have to be done.
Your faithful daughter,
Jakoba
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stevep
Fleet admiral
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Post by stevep on Dec 6, 2018 10:46:40 GMT
The war will indeed soon come to a halt except for skirmishes. There isn't too much that can be achieved by the Dutch at this point. And the Americans really aren't in a position to challenge them at sea anymore. With the Vistula, I mean that the Germans reached it south of Warsaw, because of greater success from a stronger 9th army (and the Austrians being propped up). This means that they could advance further, and actually forced the Vistula. This puts them further to the east, and places Warsaw in a salient. Of course, the Russians aren't done for and have a lot of fight left in them. They're just facing more Germans because they switched some of the troops for the Belgian offensives to the east. And that is also kind of the crux of the problem, as long as the Americans are not decisivly defeated on the battlefield they won't think they are defeated. Four years of constant Dutch raids and the navy either cowering in its ports or being constantly defeated Will prove nothing to the public aside from that the navy is incompetent. And when the government finally Agrees to at least some of the terms it Will spark an outrage, the United States are not defeated, so why should they pretend they are? In that kind of enviroment you Will get an American "stabbed in the back" myth. Ah, I see. While I don't think the Russians would be in good posistion even without the German reinforcements considering their backwardsness (at the beginning of the war they had two ambulances in the entire army) it makes sense that they would be in a worse posistion here.
That assumes that the US doesn't adapt. They won't be capable of building up a battlefleet capable of challenging the Dutch at sea in that period. Going really to take that long to get the 1st few new BBs in service. However they can do other things. Unless they come back quickly the Dutch are likely to find some more powerful defences for the main US ports, possibly including some of the 14" guns for the BBs that are no longer available. Properly positioned fortifications, unless there's a clear advantage in technology or training say, will virtually always defeat ships. Also if the Dutch ships are anything like OTL ones here their protection is mainly in the belt, against fairly horizonal fire, with relatively little deck or underwater protection. As such high angle shells as well as possibly having longer range can do a lot more damage.
Similarly while capital ships take a long time to build smaller ships don't and subs would seem an attractive option, both for helping defending US shores and taking the war to the enemy, which would make a blockade of the US a lot more difficult and also threaten both Dutch warships and their merchant trade. After such an attack and with the Dutch attacks on trade I can see very little opposition in the US to them implementing USW when they start getting the subs.
Another option is those new fangled flying machines. It only took 4 years OTL from unarmed scouts to Britain producing the 1st carriers and effective sea launched torpedo a/c and was planning an air-strike on the HSF. The US won't have the same level of army commitment as Britain and has a larger economy, probably a better tech base and definitely a greater incentive. Not saying you will see fleets of USN carriers driving the Dutch from the seas but land based air could further increase the costs of a blockade attempt, let alone raids within a year or two at most and a small carrier force by say 1917 could cause the Dutch a lot of problems on the high seas, especially since carriers are generally fairly speedy.
If the US is determined enough and given the shock of the attack and the nature of the Dutch attitude I think they will be, then in 2-3 years they could well be largely immune to Dutch attacks and causing a lot of problems for them in the Caribbean at least, as well as turning at least some of the new Dutch allies in the region. How far it goes from there would be difficult to tell.
Yes the Russians have their problems but this WWI is far more likely to play to their strengthens than their weaknesses. Fighting on the defensive to defend the homeland, with a lot of space to fall back into and the lower level of technology in the 1910s means that the sort of deep penetration attacks the Germans made in 1941/42 won't be possible so its going to be a long and bloody war with ever lengthening both front lines and for the Germans supply lines. Coupled with the gauge difference on the railways and a lot of wilderness for guerilla actions and there's only so far horse driven wagons can supply an army. The Germans will have the edge at 1st but things can definitely go pear shaped, especially if they overstretch themselves, which is almost certain if a limited war isn't fought.
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