lordroel
Administrator
Posts: 67,964
Likes: 49,368
|
Post by lordroel on Jan 3, 2019 20:10:27 GMT
From Sea to Shining Sea Part 8four former Presidents had gathered for the occasion – Roosevelt, Cox, Hoover and Truman, with the ebullient T.R. lapping up the adulation of the crowd on a rare public appearance. Nice to see T.R, even if he is now 102 old if i did my calculations right.
|
|
simon darkshade
Inspector-General
Member is Online
Posts: 4,976
Likes: 5,840
|
Post by simon darkshade on Jan 3, 2019 20:15:53 GMT
He is indeed. A sprightly old fellow
And that, as they say, is that, the end of From Sea to Shining Sea.
It turned out to be a slightly longer storyline than I intended back in the beginning, but it hopefully served a purpose in bridging some storylines, fleshing out the world and telling a good story.
|
|
lordroel
Administrator
Posts: 67,964
Likes: 49,368
|
Post by lordroel on Jan 3, 2019 20:17:27 GMT
He is indeed. A sprightly old fellow And that, as they say, is that, the end of From Sea to Shining Sea. It turned out to be a slightly longer storyline than I intended back in the beginning, but it hopefully served a purpose in bridging some storylines, fleshing out the world and telling a good story. It was a good run simon darkshade, thanks for putting it on Alternate Timelines and allowing us to enjoy it and discuss it.
|
|
simon darkshade
Inspector-General
Member is Online
Posts: 4,976
Likes: 5,840
|
Post by simon darkshade on Jan 4, 2019 1:10:26 GMT
You're most welcome and thanks for providing many interesting questions that have stimulated deeper discussion and world building.
|
|
lordroel
Administrator
Posts: 67,964
Likes: 49,368
|
Post by lordroel on Jan 4, 2019 8:53:28 GMT
You're most welcome and thanks for providing many interesting questions that have stimulated deeper discussion and world building. Well you have put a very interesting timeline on this forum, so thank you again.
|
|
stevep
Fleet admiral
Posts: 24,832
Likes: 13,222
|
Post by stevep on Jan 4, 2019 9:29:10 GMT
From Sea to Shining Sea Part 8four former Presidents had gathered for the occasion – Roosevelt, Cox, Hoover and Truman, with the ebullient T.R. lapping up the adulation of the crowd on a rare public appearance. Nice to see T.R, even if he is now 102 old if i did my calculations right.
Damn I missed that.
|
|
simon darkshade
Inspector-General
Member is Online
Posts: 4,976
Likes: 5,840
|
Post by simon darkshade on Jan 4, 2019 10:20:10 GMT
Notes on Part 8
- The First Dog has rather refined tastes in literature. - The Soviet and Arab proposals take place in the background to the latter days of the Thompson Administration. The Arab one is the more straightforward: the member states of the Arab League see the best means of progressing towards full independence is through the promotion of a US-lead collective security alliance in the Middle East in place of more overt British hegemony. This may not work out in the way that anyone expects.
In the aftermath of the Red Shadow Crisis of April 1960, the Soviets and Americans look towards some measures of stabilising superpower tensions and the Cold War, having been brought to the edge of catastrophe by mistrust and manipulation. As such, back channel discussions on stabilising the balance of power in Europe are initiated, reaching a broad agreement for constraining German and Austro-Hungarian militarisation (in the view of the Soviets)/setting broad force levels for both blocs in Europe (the US view). - The French reaction is drawn from their historical issues with Anglo-American dominance of NATO, coupled with Gaullist grand strategy. Unlike the Great War, there is a big gulf between France and the two leading Western powers; to be precise, there is a huge gulf between the US and Britain and another big gap between Britain and France. Their proposal for a tripartite structure is a non-starter. - Skybolt is a very important system politically as a result. - The matter of mobilisation is not too complex, being a matter of timetables and bottlenecks. The first issue is procuring enough airlift and sealift assets and propositioning equipment in POMCUS sets; the second and larger issue is getting sufficient strategic warning to initiate mobilisation. REFORGER may be used as an acronym down the line... - The 2nd MAF would go to Scandinavia and the 4th MAF would go to the Mediterranean, where it possibly would be employed in the Middle East or the Balkans. - SS United States has a twin in the form of SS America, with both being larger and faster superliners. - The CX will result in an aircraft rather larger than the C-5 Galaxy... - Canadian Prime Minister Sir William Richardson is the 'grand old man' of the Western powers, having been in office since 1925. - Fort Alfred = Fairbanks - Thompson's farewell address is modelled fairly closely on that of Eisenhower, but has some distinct differences. Perhaps the most important is the absence of any reference to the threat of the military-industrial complex. - The inaugural military parade is an indicator of some different equipment and a more militarised society.
I might finish up with some analysis of where the United States stands at the beginning of the new administration.
|
|
lordroel
Administrator
Posts: 67,964
Likes: 49,368
|
Post by lordroel on Jan 5, 2019 11:27:03 GMT
- Canadian Prime Minister Sir William Richardson is the 'grand old man' of the Western powers, having been in office since 1925. That is a long time, it makes him the Darkearth Version of William Lyon Mackenzie King.
|
|
simon darkshade
Inspector-General
Member is Online
Posts: 4,976
Likes: 5,840
|
Post by simon darkshade on Jan 5, 2019 17:14:22 GMT
There is similarity in their political longevity and skills, but Richardson has far more personal charisma and is admired as a man, 'father of his nation' and role model. Whereas King was single and dabbled in the occult, Richardson is a happily married devout paladin with ten children. Whereas King was a civil servant then a career politician, Richardson was an Olympic gold medallist and Great War hero.
The full details of Richardson are in the 1947 article on Canada; he will be featured as a character in some future works.
Mackenzie King does not exist here, as his grandfather was executed for high treason before siring his mother.
|
|
simon darkshade
Inspector-General
Member is Online
Posts: 4,976
Likes: 5,840
|
Post by simon darkshade on Jan 5, 2019 21:02:46 GMT
America in 1961
At the beginning of the year and a new administration, the USA stands well positioned. There are some key differences from @ and some common chords.
Economically, the USA has a GDP of $5.62 trillion and a GDP per capita of $19557.5. The national debt is at 40% of GDP and falling. It has recovered strongly from the recession of 1957, which saw a GDP fall of 0.83%, with growth in the subsequent years being 5.24%, 4.96% and 4.47%. This level of growth is driven by manufacturing, the backbone of the US economy, although services overtook it in 1950; the largest industries are automotive, housing, steel, defence, aviation, electronics and telecommunication, petroleum and chemicals. There are four major car manufacturers - Ford, General Motors, Chrysler and American Motors. The major US airlines are TWA, American Airlines, United Airlines, Eastern Airlines, Capital Airlines, with Pan Am and US Airways concentrating on international flight.
Politically, the Democrats hold the House (264 Democrats, 194 Republicans, 36 Liberals/Whigs, 22 Conservatives, 4 Independent) and the Senate (52 Democrat, 40 Republican, 7 Whig, 1 Conservative) as well as the Presidency. The chief areas of difference between the major parties are domestic: health, welfare and the role of government; there is general concurrence on defence and foreign policy. Civil Rights aren't the same level of issue, due to earlier gradual desegregation moves. There is still a large amount of prejudice and de facto discrimination, but it has not come to the boil, so to speak, for a number of reasons.
Demographically, the USA is a small but noticeable amount more White. Hispanic migration in the South West hasn't begun to rise to the same exent and the Black population is more centred in the South. There are more Indians on the West Coast and a larger Native American minority. White is 90.5% (1.8% Hispanic), Black is 8.2%, Asian is 0.7% and Native American is 0.6%. The postwar baby boom is gradually slowing, but is still going strong.
American society is extremely homogenous, with the melting pot philosophy of migration still prevalent. The class divide is continuing to contract with the postwar boom in affluence. This is the heyday of the nuclear family. The move towards suburbanisation has been a major factor throughout the 1950s, with car ownership rates very high. It is a very Christian society, with Protestant denominations comprising the majority and church attendance around 75%. Unionisation rates are at 25% and falling slowly. 39% of the adult population are smokers and there is still quite an influential temperance movement, with the lack of nationwide Prohibition being a factor in its survival. Television ownership rates are very high and it is becoming the dominant medium in popular culture. Rock and roll never progressed beyond a regional musical style and variations of country and pop are the most popular musical styles. Fashion is quite conventional and formal, as in @, and hats are still considered de rigeur. Films and comics are still subject to fairly strict self-regulation of content.
The 1960 US military has 5,692,495 personnel (2,457,136 Army, 1,429,356 USN, 369,524 USMC, 1,636,479 USAF) or 1.97% of the population compared to 2,476,435 (873,078 Army, 617,984 USN, 170,621 USMC, 814,752 USAF) or 1.37%. There hasn't been the 1950s post-Korean War contraction in conventional strength in favour of nuclear weapons, particularly in the US Army. Of the 2,458,793 young men who turn 18 and reach military age annually, roughly 65% are drafted, many going on to serve part of their time in the reserves.
Interservice rivalry is still strong, with all three major services fielding their own nuclear missiles and the US Army looking to expand its fixed wing aviation assets. The USAF has SAC, TAC and ADC as semi-independent air forces after a certain fashion; there is something of a move towards common air frames in relevant cases. The general posture of the armed forces is trending more towards Europe than the Pacific in the aftermath of the Korean War, with US forces in Europe set to rise significantly. Deployment to Korea is likely to wind down completely within the first Kennedy Administration, given its position as a united American ally; it has already shrunk from a 1956 level of 5 divisions to a single infantry division, with copious support brigades and units. Kennedy's defence policy is going to be noticeably different with Clark Savage as SecDef. There won't be the same move away from bombers in favour of ICBMs, for one. The US Army is likely to expand.
The Cold War is going strong without a Khruschev thaw, although there has been greater cooperation since April 1960. Without a Red China, the strategic threat does not seem as monolithic, but it represents its own challenge. The Soviet empire in Eastern Europe lacks Bulgaria, Hungary, Bohemia, Slovakia and half of Germany, but this comprises a minor reduction in their threat and capabilities. The USSR's influence is somewhat constrained by the different geopolitical position of Africa and the Middle East; the Third World or Non-Aligned Movement simply isn't around.
US foreign influence and prestige is the strongest in the world, although the British Empire and France have varying degrees of independence of action and differences of view. The recent moves towards rapprochement by the Thompson administration have shuffled general alignment closer to what we'd be familiar with, but the 1960s will see some interesting changes. The League of Nations doesn't have the same power or cachet as the United Nations at this point.
(All economic stats are in 1990 USD for ease of reference and convertability)
|
|
lordroel
Administrator
Posts: 67,964
Likes: 49,368
|
Post by lordroel on Jan 5, 2019 21:11:02 GMT
America in 1961Politically, the Democrats hold the House (264 Democrats, 194 Republicans, 36 Liberals/Whigs, 22 Conservatives, 4 Independent) and the Senate (52 Democrat, 40 Republican, 7 Whig, 1 Conservative) as well as the Presidency. The chief areas of difference between the major parties are domestic: health, welfare and the role of government; there is general concurrence on defence and foreign policy. Civil Rights aren't the same level of issue, due to earlier gradual desegregation moves. There is still a large amount of prejudice and de facto discrimination, but it has not come to the boil, so to speak, for a number of reasons. Nice to see the United States is not hold captured by the two parties only as we see in OTL, this means the two big parties Democrats and Republics in the Darkearth verse can team up with the Liberals/Whigs and Conservatives when they need the votes.
|
|
simon darkshade
Inspector-General
Member is Online
Posts: 4,976
Likes: 5,840
|
Post by simon darkshade on Jan 5, 2019 21:20:56 GMT
It is a different development. The Liberals (generally still called the Whigs, despite their 1950s name change) have their heartland in Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin, the Dakotas, Wyoming and Montana, drawing from the constituencies of the Farmer-Labor Party and the Progressive Party of LaFollette. Their fortunes depend to wax and wane.
|
|
lordroel
Administrator
Posts: 67,964
Likes: 49,368
|
Post by lordroel on Jan 5, 2019 21:23:52 GMT
It is a different development. The Liberals (generally still called the Whigs, despite their 1950s name change) have their heartland in Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin, the Dakotas, Wyoming and Montana, drawing from the constituencies of the Farmer-Labor Party and the Progressive Party of LaFollette. Their fortunes depend to wax and wane. Was the Progressive Party also founded in 1924 as it happen in OTL.
|
|
simon darkshade
Inspector-General
Member is Online
Posts: 4,976
Likes: 5,840
|
Post by simon darkshade on Jan 5, 2019 21:38:43 GMT
No, it was not, due to a pre-existing party and constituency for the same general alignment.
|
|
stevep
Fleet admiral
Posts: 24,832
Likes: 13,222
|
Post by stevep on Jan 5, 2019 23:18:55 GMT
America in 1961Demographically, the USA is a small but noticeable amount more White. Hispanic migration in the South West hasn't begun to rise to the same exent and the Black population is more centred in the South. There are more Indians on the West Coast and a larger Native American minority. White is 90.5% (1.8% Hispanic), Black is 8.2%, Asian is 0.7% and Native American is 0.6%. The postwar baby boom is gradually slowing, but is still going strong. .... The 1960 US military has 5,692,495 personnel (2,457,136 Army, 1,429,356 USN, 369,524 USMC, 1,636,479 USAF) or 1.97% of the population compared to 2,476,435 (873,078 Army, 617,984 USN, 170,621 USMC, 814,752 USAF) or 1.37%. There hasn't been the 1950s post-Korean War contraction in conventional strength in favour of nuclear weapons, particularly in the US Army. Of the 2,458,793 young men who turn 18 and reach military age annually, roughly 65% are drafted, many going on to serve part of their time in the reserves.
That does sound like a lot whiter and more homogeneous an US.
With the other para is there a date missing here as it sounds like a comparison with another time, or with our smaller and less militarised world?
That is quite a proportion of the 18 year old males under arms. Presumably markedly bigger than OTL.
|
|