futurist
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Post by futurist on Jun 29, 2018 20:20:39 GMT
If Kaiser Karl would have been willing to make peace at any price in 1917 in order to get Austria-Hungary out of World War I, would the Bolshevik Revolution in Russia have been prevented?
Basically, if Austria-Hungary is willing to make peace on terms that are acceptable to the Allies (which would mean significant concessions on Austria-Hungary's part), then this would have been a huge morale booster to the Allies (even if parts of Austria-Hungary would have subsequently been occupied by Germany). However, my question is this--would this have been enough to prevent the Bolshevik Revolution in Russia?
Any thoughts on this?
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jun 29, 2018 20:24:14 GMT
If Kaiser Karl would have been willing to make peace at any price in 1917 in order to get Austria-Hungary out of World War I, would the Bolshevik Revolution in Russia have been prevented? Any thoughts on this? Think the Bolshevik Revolution in Russia was only a matter of time, having a surviving Austria-Hungary would not change that i guess. |
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Post by futurist on Jun 29, 2018 20:32:11 GMT
If Kaiser Karl would have been willing to make peace at any price in 1917 in order to get Austria-Hungary out of World War I, would the Bolshevik Revolution in Russia have been prevented? Any thoughts on this? Think the Bolshevik Revolution in Russia was only a matter of time, having a surviving Austria-Hungary would not change that i guess. The failed Kerensky Offensive and the Kornilov affair significantly helped the Bolsheviks in real life, though. Are both of these events still going to occur the same way in this scenario? |
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Post by lordroel on Jun 29, 2018 20:33:41 GMT
Think the Bolshevik Revolution in Russia was only a matter of time, having a surviving Austria-Hungary would not change that i guess. The failed Kerensky Offensive and the Kornilov affair significantly helped the Bolsheviks in real life, though. Are both of these events still going to occur the same way in this scenario? Depends on what Germany is going to do, are they going to allow Lenin to move to to Russia, what are German plans for a Austria-Hungary peace with the Allies. |
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Post by futurist on Jun 29, 2018 20:34:38 GMT
The failed Kerensky Offensive and the Kornilov affair significantly helped the Bolsheviks in real life, though. Are both of these events still going to occur the same way in this scenario? Depends on what Germany is going to do, are they going to allow Lenin to move to to Russia, what are German plans for a Austria-Hungary peace with the Allies. Germany almost certainly still sends Lenin to Russia in this scenario due to its desperation. As for Germany's plans for A-H, it probably occupies as much of A-H as it can for strategic reasons and also in an attempt to secure more manpower for the war effort. |
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Post by lordroel on Jun 29, 2018 20:36:24 GMT
Depends on what Germany is going to do, are they going to allow Lenin to move to to Russia, what are German plans for a Austria-Hungary peace with the Allies. Germany almost certainly still sends Lenin to Russia in this scenario due to its desperation. As for Germany's plans for A-H, it probably occupies as much of A-H as it can for strategic reasons and also in an attempt to secure more manpower for the war effort. So that would mean Austria-Hungary could end up on the allied side if the German Empire tries to invade Austria-Hungary, also does Germany have the troops to do that, they would be fighting a three front war. |
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Post by futurist on Jun 29, 2018 20:39:16 GMT
Germany almost certainly still sends Lenin to Russia in this scenario due to its desperation. As for Germany's plans for A-H, it probably occupies as much of A-H as it can for strategic reasons and also in an attempt to secure more manpower for the war effort. So that would mean Austria-Hungary could end up on the allied side if the German Empire tries to invade Austria-Hungary, also does Germany have the troops to do that, they would be fighting a three front war. Yes, I guess that Austria-Hungary would switch to the side of the Allies in this scenario. Of course, there is also a risk that Germany will refrain from invading A-H for this very reason. Basically, it would make more sense for Germany for A-H to become neutral than for A-H to become an Allied power. Also, I don't know if Germany would have had sufficient troops to invade A-H. Indeed, I'll let someone more knowledgeable answer this question. |
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Post by lordroel on Jun 29, 2018 20:40:42 GMT
So that would mean Austria-Hungary could end up on the allied side if the German Empire tries to invade Austria-Hungary, also does Germany have the troops to do that, they would be fighting a three front war. Yes, I guess that Austria-Hungary would switch to the side of the Allies in this scenario. Of course, there is also a risk that Germany will refrain from invading A-H for this very reason. Basically, it would make more sense for Germany for A-H to become neutral than for A-H to become an Allied power. Also, I don't know if Germany would have had sufficient troops to invade A-H. Indeed, I'll let someone more knowledgeable answer this question. My guess is that Germany needs to make peace with Russia, then it can deal with Austria-Hungary if needed. |
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Post by futurist on Jun 29, 2018 20:41:46 GMT
Yes, I guess that Austria-Hungary would switch to the side of the Allies in this scenario. Of course, there is also a risk that Germany will refrain from invading A-H for this very reason. Basically, it would make more sense for Germany for A-H to become neutral than for A-H to become an Allied power. Also, I don't know if Germany would have had sufficient troops to invade A-H. Indeed, I'll let someone more knowledgeable answer this question. My guess is that Germany needs to make peace with Russia, then it can deal with Austria-Hungary if needed. Agreed that making peace with Russia would be Germany's highest priority in this scenario. That said, though, this only has a chance of happening if the Bolsheviks still seize power in Russia in this scenario. |
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Post by lordroel on Jun 29, 2018 20:47:38 GMT
My guess is that Germany needs to make peace with Russia, then it can deal with Austria-Hungary if needed. Agreed that making peace with Russia would be Germany's highest priority in this scenario. That said, though, this only has a chance of happening if the Bolsheviks still seize power in Russia in this scenario. Still think that will happen, but if there is peace between Austria-Hungary it might free up Russian troops on the Eastern Front, but that depends on when Austria-Hungary signs a peace deal with the allies, is it before the outbreak of the February Revolution which was the first of two revolutions which took place in Russia in 1917 as i doubt any Austria-Hungary/Russia peace deal will save the Russian Empire from collapsing. |
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Post by futurist on Jun 29, 2018 20:48:59 GMT
Agreed that making peace with Russia would be Germany's highest priority in this scenario. That said, though, this only has a chance of happening if the Bolsheviks still seize power in Russia in this scenario. Still think that will happen, but if there is peace between Austria-Hungary it might free up Russian troops on the Eastern Front, but that depends on when Austria-Hungary signs a peace deal with the allies, is it before the outbreak of the February Revolution which was the first of two revolutions which took place in Russia in 1917 as i doubt any Austria-Hungary/Russia peace deal will save the Russian Empire from collapsing. If Austria-Hungary makes a separate peace, it will probably do so after the February Revolution and before the November (Bolshevik) Revolution. |
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Post by lordroel on Jun 29, 2018 20:52:51 GMT
Still think that will happen, but if there is peace between Austria-Hungary it might free up Russian troops on the Eastern Front, but that depends on when Austria-Hungary signs a peace deal with the allies, is it before the outbreak of the February Revolution which was the first of two revolutions which took place in Russia in 1917 as i doubt any Austria-Hungary/Russia peace deal will save the Russian Empire from collapsing. If Austria-Hungary makes a separate peace, it will probably do so after the February Revolution and before the November (Bolshevik) Revolution. So it will be the end of the Russian Empire, this deal would be a Treaty of Brest-Litovsk type of treaty but then only between Austria-Hungary and the Russian Republic (which is was between the February Revolution and the October Revolution). |
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Post by futurist on Jun 29, 2018 21:11:13 GMT
If Austria-Hungary makes a separate peace, it will probably do so after the February Revolution and before the November (Bolshevik) Revolution. So it will be the end of the Russian Empire, this deal would be a Treaty of Brest-Litovsk type of treaty but then only between Austria-Hungary and the Russian Republic (which is was between the February Revolution and the October Revolution). False. This treaty would involve large concessions--but on Austria-Hungary's part, not on Russia's part. Indeed, this will be a peace treaty between Austria-Hungary and all of the Entente/Allied powers. |
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Post by lordroel on Jun 29, 2018 21:16:05 GMT
So it will be the end of the Russian Empire, this deal would be a Treaty of Brest-Litovsk type of treaty but then only between Austria-Hungary and the Russian Republic (which is was between the February Revolution and the October Revolution). False. This treaty would involve large concessions--but on Austria-Hungary's part, not on Russia's part. Indeed, this will be a peace treaty between Austria-Hungary and all of the Entente/Allied powers. Kingdom of Italy will want some Austria-Hungary territory, others might as well, doubt we will see a Austria-Hungary looking like this United States of Greater Austria |
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Post by futurist on Jun 29, 2018 21:17:29 GMT
False. This treaty would involve large concessions--but on Austria-Hungary's part, not on Russia's part. Indeed, this will be a peace treaty between Austria-Hungary and all of the Entente/Allied powers. Kingdom of Italy will want some Austria-Hungary territory, others might as well, doubt we will see a Austria-Hungary looking like this United States of Greater AustriaYeah, what I'd expect in this scenario is for Austria-Hungary to keep Czechia, Slovakia, the Sudetenland, German Austria, (Hungarian) Hungary, and perhaps Slovenia and northern Croatia as well but to lose everything else. |
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