stevep
Fleet admiral
Posts: 24,835
Likes: 13,224
|
Post by stevep on Apr 8, 2018 0:01:16 GMT
It might be. But it might also be because sometimes we just have to put on a nice hat and shoot at English ships. Well many have tried, many have failed. Well you did better against the RN that most of our opponents in the last ~450 years. Not sure of anyone we clearly lost a war against.
|
|
jasonsnow
Sub-lieutenant
Posts: 569
Likes: 27
|
Post by jasonsnow on Apr 8, 2018 2:27:34 GMT
So imagine FDR dies of polio in the late 20's following a failed bid as James Cox's VP in the 1920 elections.
Hoover becomes President as usual, the Depression happens, and all that stuff.
What then? In 1932, Hoover seeks reelection, with the most possible Democrat running against him being John Nance Garner, Roosevelt's VP during OTL, who originally ran against FDR in the primaries before striking a deal and becoming his running mate. How would the Depression and WWII play out under a possible Garner administration? Or is the idea of Garner becoming President just too far-fetched?
|
|
lordroel
Administrator
Posts: 67,973
Likes: 49,378
|
Post by lordroel on Apr 8, 2018 7:58:02 GMT
So imagine FDR dies of polio in the late 20's following a failed bid as James Cox's VP in the 1920 elections. Hoover becomes President as usual, the Depression happens, and all that stuff. What then? In 1932, Hoover seeks reelection, with the most possible Democrat running against him being John Nance Garner, Roosevelt's VP during OTL, who originally ran against FDR in the primaries before striking a deal and becoming his running mate. How would the Depression and WWII play out under a possible Garner administration? Or is the idea of Garner becoming President just too far-fetched? Well we do have something like that called the Man in the High Castle, but there Roosevelt is shot in 1933 instead of dying off polio in the late 20's.
|
|
stevep
Fleet admiral
Posts: 24,835
Likes: 13,224
|
Post by stevep on Apr 8, 2018 9:44:27 GMT
So imagine FDR dies of polio in the late 20's following a failed bid as James Cox's VP in the 1920 elections. Hoover becomes President as usual, the Depression happens, and all that stuff. What then? In 1932, Hoover seeks reelection, with the most possible Democrat running against him being John Nance Garner, Roosevelt's VP during OTL, who originally ran against FDR in the primaries before striking a deal and becoming his running mate. How would the Depression and WWII play out under a possible Garner administration? Or is the idea of Garner becoming President just too far-fetched? Could be wrong but from what I've read, albeit a long while ago Garner had traditional views on economics, i.e. continue cutting spending and keeping the deficit low until the market 'corrects itself'. Roosevelt took him on as VP in part to mollify the more conservative wing of the party and I think he had little/no support for the New Deal so if he became President your unlikely to see a lot of Roosevelt's policies. While some conservatives will argue this will mean the market sorting the problem out in time without the 'big government' they hate this would mean there's a lot more suffering for the bulk of the population. If you follow the Keynesian view American continues in deep depression until something changes, possibly violently given the desperation in the country in 1932/33.
|
|
jasonsnow
Sub-lieutenant
Posts: 569
Likes: 27
|
Post by jasonsnow on Apr 8, 2018 15:49:12 GMT
So imagine FDR dies of polio in the late 20's following a failed bid as James Cox's VP in the 1920 elections. Hoover becomes President as usual, the Depression happens, and all that stuff. What then? In 1932, Hoover seeks reelection, with the most possible Democrat running against him being John Nance Garner, Roosevelt's VP during OTL, who originally ran against FDR in the primaries before striking a deal and becoming his running mate. How would the Depression and WWII play out under a possible Garner administration? Or is the idea of Garner becoming President just too far-fetched? Could be wrong but from what I've read, albeit a long while ago Garner had traditional views on economics, i.e. continue cutting spending and keeping the deficit low until the market 'corrects itself'. Roosevelt took him on as VP in part to mollify the more conservative wing of the party and I think he had little/no support for the New Deal so if he became President your unlikely to see a lot of Roosevelt's policies. While some conservatives will argue this will mean the market sorting the problem out in time without the 'big government' they hate this would mean there's a lot more suffering for the bulk of the population. If you follow the Keynesian view American continues in deep depression until something changes, possibly violently given the desperation in the country in 1932/33. Interesting... Could we see a rise of radical political views amongst the American population, seeing the New Deal's saving policies aren't happening and an inactive conservative government is in place? You see a lot of regions were poverty is extreme. Hell, think of the Dust Bowl and the rejected immigrants in California... perhaps breeding ground for extremist ideas on either side of the spectrum.
|
|
James G
Squadron vice admiral
Posts: 7,608
Likes: 8,833
|
Post by James G on Apr 8, 2018 18:36:57 GMT
Another idea to be unrealised... No Papal intervention in the dispute between Argentina and Chile sees the two of them go to war at Christmas 1978. Block and counterblow are struck with each side playing to advantages. The conflict sees Argentina gaining a 'victory' at the start in the disputed area but Chile responding by striking elsewhere. Other South American nations are drawn in. Where to go from there, I am not sure.
|
|
raunchel
Commander
Posts: 1,795
Likes: 1,182
|
Post by raunchel on Apr 8, 2018 19:23:42 GMT
Another one could be Zenobia inflicting a major defeat on Aerelianus, killing the emperor in the process. That could see large parts of the eastern parts of the Roman empire become Palmyrene, leasing to all kinds of alterations to history and probably some very big wars.
|
|
stevep
Fleet admiral
Posts: 24,835
Likes: 13,224
|
Post by stevep on Apr 8, 2018 22:17:29 GMT
Another one could be Zenobia inflicting a major defeat on Aerelianus, killing the emperor in the process. That could see large parts of the eastern parts of the Roman empire become Palmyrene, leasing to all kinds of alterations to history and probably some very big wars. That could be a huge game-changer. If she can build a stable empire in the east it could defend the region a lot more effectively against the Sassanian empire. However unless Rome totally collapses, in which case what happens to the chaos across about 2/3 of the empire, then sooner or later its likely to have a strong emperor reunite it. They will almost certainly then want revenge and of course the return of the richest provinces in the empire. You might get a Roman emperor who decides, possibly after a long civil war to reunite the empire. that its too weak to really attack Palmyria but if he manages to create a new stable state, for a few years, its likely to regain wealth and confidence and a successor is going to want to 'complete' the task. As such I think your right that there is likely to be a number of big wars in the Med as a result and Palmyria has the problem of being threatened from both east and west by larger and probably more powerful states. Its going to need a lot of skilled management and/or luck to maintain its position under such circumstances. Not sure how this would affect other factors. Most noticeably the OTL rise of eastern cultures, especially a certain Jewish sect ? Possibly a more limited empire, restricted more towards its Roman-Greek core could turn against foreign/eastern ideas in response to the conflict with Palmyria. Or simply the lack of a universal empire makes it more difficult for a universal religion to gain influence. Also while such a reunited empire stripped of its eastern provinces would be markedly poorer it may, provided it doesn't clash insistently with Palmyria be easiler to keep together. It doesn't have to guard against Persian attacks and has a significantly smaller area that the emperor and his officials can possibly rule more practically. Or everything could fall apart. You could end up with both states crushed, an earlier and more complete dark age in west and central Europe and the Persians in charge of an empire as large as that achieved by the Achasmenid's at their height.
|
|
raunchel
Commander
Posts: 1,795
Likes: 1,182
|
Post by raunchel on Apr 8, 2018 22:28:26 GMT
Another one could be Zenobia inflicting a major defeat on Aerelianus, killing the emperor in the process. That could see large parts of the eastern parts of the Roman empire become Palmyrene, leasing to all kinds of alterations to history and probably some very big wars. That could be a huge game-changer. If she can build a stable empire in the east it could defend the region a lot more effectively against the Sassanian empire. However unless Rome totally collapses, in which case what happens to the chaos across about 2/3 of the empire, then sooner or later its likely to have a strong emperor reunite it. They will almost certainly then want revenge and of course the return of the richest provinces in the empire. You might get a Roman emperor who decides, possibly after a long civil war to reunite the empire. that its too weak to really attack Palmyria but if he manages to create a new stable state, for a few years, its likely to regain wealth and confidence and a successor is going to want to 'complete' the task. As such I think your right that there is likely to be a number of big wars in the Med as a result and Palmyria has the problem of being threatened from both east and west by larger and probably more powerful states. Its going to need a lot of skilled management and/or luck to maintain its position under such circumstances. Not sure how this would affect other factors. Most noticeably the OTL rise of eastern cultures, especially a certain Jewish sect ? Possibly a more limited empire, restricted more towards its Roman-Greek core could turn against foreign/eastern ideas in response to the conflict with Palmyria. Or simply the lack of a universal empire makes it more difficult for a universal religion to gain influence. Also while such a reunited empire stripped of its eastern provinces would be markedly poorer it may, provided it doesn't clash insistently with Palmyria be easiler to keep together. It doesn't have to guard against Persian attacks and has a significantly smaller area that the emperor and his officials can possibly rule more practically. Or everything could fall apart. You could end up with both states crushed, an earlier and more complete dark age in west and central Europe and the Persians in charge of an empire as large as that achieved by the Achasmenid's at their height. All of these (and more) are possible, although I think that some emperor would probably defeat the Palmyrenes, or perhaps the Persians do it. It usually isn't that nice to be between two militarily powerful empires. But it could make for a very interesting timeline, if only I had the time and knowledge for such an endeavour.
|
|
James G
Squadron vice admiral
Posts: 7,608
Likes: 8,833
|
Post by James G on Apr 14, 2018 11:16:33 GMT
A Lebed-led Russia in the late 90s and early 00s. Alexander Lebed would be Russia's Napoleon and make the new Russia he led a military expansive state where many of the old USSR borders were restored in Central Asia and the Caucasus. This would cause diplomatic conflict with the West and military stand-offs. Eventually, on the eve of a possible conflict with the West, Lebed dies and the storm doesn't come to pass.
|
|
lordroel
Administrator
Posts: 67,973
Likes: 49,378
|
Post by lordroel on Apr 14, 2018 11:25:05 GMT
A Lebed-led Russia in the late 90s and early 00s. Alexander Lebed would be Russia's Napoleon and make the new Russia he led a military expansive state where many of the old USSR borders were restored in Central Asia and the Caucasus. This would cause diplomatic conflict with the West and military stand-offs. Eventually, on the eve of a possible conflict with the West, Lebed dies and the storm doesn't come to pass. If i had not read the wiki article about him i would not have believe you James, but it does indeed say that he was compared by some Western and Russian analysts to Augusto Pinochet and Napoleon Bonaparte.
|
|
stevep
Fleet admiral
Posts: 24,835
Likes: 13,224
|
Post by stevep on Apr 14, 2018 12:02:42 GMT
A Lebed-led Russia in the late 90s and early 00s. Alexander Lebed would be Russia's Napoleon and make the new Russia he led a military expansive state where many of the old USSR borders were restored in Central Asia and the Caucasus. This would cause diplomatic conflict with the West and military stand-offs. Eventually, on the eve of a possible conflict with the West, Lebed dies and the storm doesn't come to pass. Long time since I've heard of him. He was a military leader but I got the impression that he was fairly liberal and that if he had come to power he would have been more interested in internal reform and might have avoided the xenophobic kleptocracy that plagues Russia currently. Definitely would be nationalistic but not necessarily expansionist. Could be totally wrong but IIRC there was a fair level of disappointment in the west when he died fairly suddenly.
|
|
James G
Squadron vice admiral
Posts: 7,608
Likes: 8,833
|
Post by James G on Apr 14, 2018 12:15:59 GMT
A Lebed-led Russia in the late 90s and early 00s. Alexander Lebed would be Russia's Napoleon and make the new Russia he led a military expansive state where many of the old USSR borders were restored in Central Asia and the Caucasus. This would cause diplomatic conflict with the West and military stand-offs. Eventually, on the eve of a possible conflict with the West, Lebed dies and the storm doesn't come to pass. If i had not read the wiki article about him i would not have believe you James, but it does indeed say that he was compared by some Western and Russian analysts to Augusto Pinochet and Napoleon Bonaparte. He's someone I've used in stories before as a serving Soviet Airborne officer. Whether he would be a Napoleon or Pinochet is only speculation but I do like the idea. Long time since I've heard of him. He was a military leader but I got the impression that he was fairly liberal and that if he had come to power he would have been more interested in internal reform and might have avoided the xenophobic kleptocracy that plagues Russia currently. Definitely would be nationalistic but not necessarily expansionist. Could be totally wrong but IIRC there was a fair level of disappointment in the west when he died fairly suddenly. You might be right: it is only speculation that he would have been hardcore. He died in a helicopter crash: good timing it could be said if someone was a conspiracy theorist. I'd think that under a military leadership, there would be no rise of Putin and all of his former KGB guys in a post-Soviet Russia.
|
|
lordroel
Administrator
Posts: 67,973
Likes: 49,378
|
Post by lordroel on Apr 15, 2018 6:24:55 GMT
If i had not read the wiki article about him i would not have believe you James, but it does indeed say that he was compared by some Western and Russian analysts to Augusto Pinochet and Napoleon Bonaparte. He's someone I've used in stories before as a serving Soviet Airborne officer. Whether he would be a Napoleon or Pinochet is only speculation but I do like the idea. Long time since I've heard of him. He was a military leader but I got the impression that he was fairly liberal and that if he had come to power he would have been more interested in internal reform and might have avoided the xenophobic kleptocracy that plagues Russia currently. Definitely would be nationalistic but not necessarily expansionist. Could be totally wrong but IIRC there was a fair level of disappointment in the west when he died fairly suddenly. You might be right: it is only speculation that he would have been hardcore. He died in a helicopter crash: good timing it could be said if someone was a conspiracy theorist. I'd think that under a military leadership, there would be no rise of Putin and all of his former KGB guys in a post-Soviet Russia. Have tried to find many timelines with him replacing Putin but i do not find many at all.
|
|
jasonsnow
Sub-lieutenant
Posts: 569
Likes: 27
|
Post by jasonsnow on Apr 19, 2018 12:40:28 GMT
As unlikely as it is, Nicholas II is able to crack down on the communists before he is executed. Lenin and other Bolshevik leaders are quickly captured and executed, and protests are disrupted. The entire communist movement is broken up, and just barely, Nicholas II is able to hang to the throne. He quickly negotiates peace with Germany in 1916 and declares neutrality. He promises a new renewal for the people, attempting ambitious welfare reforms, establishing basic rights for the people and taking measures to ease social discontent. People stop rioting, and as the conditions improve, the Bolshevism slowly loses prominence. The Russian monarchy is saved, at least for a few years.
Basically, how could the tsar last till WWII?
|
|