lordroel
Administrator
Posts: 67,973 
Likes: 49,378
|
Post by lordroel on Nov 4, 2017 15:23:56 GMT
Wonder if Poland who invaded by the Soviet Union is going to invite the help of Nazi Germany ore Germany invites itself into Poland. I believe they actually had a defense treaty before the war so Poland could well as for their help. You mean the German–Polish Non-Aggression Pact |
|
ankh
Warrant Officer
Posts: 254
Likes: 7
|
Post by ankh on Nov 4, 2017 16:13:44 GMT
That's the one, would this get Germany involved do you think? |
|
lordroel
Administrator
Posts: 67,973
Likes: 49,378
|
Post by lordroel on Nov 4, 2017 17:40:27 GMT
That's the one, would this get Germany involved do you think? I do not know, but Germany is not going to allow a second Communist country to appear at its borders. |
|
ankh
Warrant Officer
Posts: 254
Likes: 7
|
Post by ankh on Nov 4, 2017 21:20:06 GMT
That's the one, would this get Germany involved do you think? I do not know, but Germany is not going to allow a second Communist country to appear at its borders. Very true, but would Hitler contemplate a two-front year, he made a point of finishing off France before attacking the USSR IOTL so I hardly think he would be all that keen on a war with both at the same time, especially after what happened in World War One. |
|
lordroel
Administrator
Posts: 67,973
Likes: 49,378
|
Post by lordroel on Nov 4, 2017 21:24:01 GMT
I do not know, but Germany is not going to allow a second Communist country to appear at its borders. Very true, but would Hitler contemplate a two-front year, he made a point of finishing off France before attacking the USSR IOTL so I hardly think he would be all that keen on a war with both at the same time, especially after what happened in World War One. Well he only needs to keep it a defensive war in Poland, while in the mean time he (either with ore without the United Kingdom) finishes of Communist France before moving to engage the soviet Union, like a reverse of OTL where Germany first invaded Poland before striking at France. |
|
ankh
Warrant Officer
Posts: 254
Likes: 7
|
Post by ankh on Nov 4, 2017 21:30:51 GMT
Very true, but would Hitler contemplate a two-front year, he made a point of finishing off France before attacking the USSR IOTL so I hardly think he would be all that keen on a war with both at the same time, especially after what happened in World War One. Well he only needs to keep it a defensive war in Poland, while in the mean time he (either with ore without the United Kingdom) finishes of Communist France before moving to engage the soviet Union, like a reverse of OTL where Germany first invaded Poland before striking at France. That sounds plausible to me, thus we have a bizarre, almost reverse WW2. |
|
lordroel
Administrator
Posts: 67,973
Likes: 49,378
|
Post by lordroel on Nov 4, 2017 21:38:00 GMT
Well he only needs to keep it a defensive war in Poland, while in the mean time he (either with ore without the United Kingdom) finishes of Communist France before moving to engage the soviet Union, like a reverse of OTL where Germany first invaded Poland before striking at France. That sounds plausible to me, thus we have a bizarre, almost reverse WW2. Of course Germany will want to get something in return after having defeated France, like a modified version of the OTL Armistice of 22 June 1940, colonies i do not think they get as the United Kingdom will never go along with that, maybe the Germans do what to get back Alsace-Lorraine. |
|
ankh
Warrant Officer
Posts: 254
Likes: 7
|
Post by ankh on Nov 4, 2017 22:37:00 GMT
That sounds plausible to me, thus we have a bizarre, almost reverse WW2. Of course Germany will want to get something in return after having defeated France, like a modified version of the OTL Armistice of 22 June 1940, colonies i do not think they get as the United Kingdom will never go along with that, maybe the Germans do what to get back Alsace-Lorraine. That's certainly possible and presuming victory against the USSR what so you think they would take on the Eastern Front given that they were fighting on the same side as Poland? |
|
lordroel
Administrator
Posts: 67,973
Likes: 49,378
|
Post by lordroel on Nov 5, 2017 4:47:33 GMT
Of course Germany will want to get something in return after having defeated France, like a modified version of the OTL Armistice of 22 June 1940, colonies i do not think they get as the United Kingdom will never go along with that, maybe the Germans do what to get back Alsace-Lorraine. That's certainly possible and presuming victory against the USSR what so you think they would take on the Eastern Front given that they were fighting on the same side as Poland? Poland i would think and the Baltic's. |
|
stevep
Fleet admiral
Posts: 24,835
Likes: 13,224
|
Post by stevep on Nov 5, 2017 11:50:26 GMT
That could well be trust, but I would also assume that it would be closely tied to the USSR and so any attack by Germany on one or the other would bring a two-front war. Wich would bring Poland in the war which then would bring the United Kingdom in the war wich would result that the United Kingdom is allied to Germany and at war with France. That would depend on whether Britain has secured Polish independence, which in this vastly different scenario it might not have. Also that the 1st power to invade Poland is the Soviets. It could be Nazi Germany, although I doubt even Hitler would be stupid enough to do that. More likely he renews the non-Agression pact with Poland and uses it as a buffer while he attacks communist France. [Where elements of the right might well welcome him, at least at 1st]. That would prompt your scenario however with Stalin attacking Poland to aid France. Unless he goes through the Baltic states to hit E Prussia but that seems unlikely. |
|
lordroel
Administrator
Posts: 67,973
Likes: 49,378
|
Post by lordroel on Nov 5, 2017 11:52:26 GMT
Wich would bring Poland in the war which then would bring the United Kingdom in the war wich would result that the United Kingdom is allied to Germany and at war with France. Unless he goes through the Baltic states to hit E Prussia but that seems unlikely. Wich would be a very small front, i doubt Stalin is that crazy. |
|
stevep
Fleet admiral
Posts: 24,835
Likes: 13,224
|
Post by stevep on Nov 5, 2017 11:57:22 GMT
Wonder if Poland who invaded by the Soviet Union is going to invite the help of Nazi Germany ore Germany invites itself into Poland. I believe they actually had a defense treaty before the war so Poland could well as for their help. I don't think there was a defensive treaty but there was a non-aggression pact until Hitler cancelled it, after the destruction of Czechoslovakia meant Poland was his next target. Nazi-Polish Non-Aggression Pact, has more details. Apologies, should have read the entire thread 1st. Ninjed by lordroel. There is an horrendous thought, Poland having to call in the Nazis for aid!  Suspect they probably wouldn't do so at 1st as facing only one attacker and with the condition of the Red Army in 1939 they could probably hold for a while, while Germany is likely to be very busy in France. Also I think Poland and Romania had a mutual defence pact against the Soviets which might have been activated in this case. However I think ultimately the Poles would have to call in the Germans! Or possibly if France falls quickly some sort of peace is patched up, with Stalin getting parts of eastern Poland but the situation is likely to be very unstable. |
|
lordroel
Administrator
Posts: 67,973
Likes: 49,378
|
Post by lordroel on Nov 5, 2017 12:01:14 GMT
I believe they actually had a defense treaty before the war so Poland could well as for their help. There is an horrendous thought, Poland having to call in the Nazis for aid! Wich happens in Harry Turtledove six volume series of the The War That Came Early, where the anti-Communist Polish government openly moved to the side of Germany, considering Adolf Hitler to be a more tolerable neighbor than Joseph Stalin. |
|
stevep
Fleet admiral
Posts: 24,835
Likes: 13,224
|
Post by stevep on Nov 5, 2017 12:01:47 GMT
That's certainly possible and presuming victory against the USSR what so you think they would take on the Eastern Front given that they were fighting on the same side as Poland? Poland i would think and the Baltic's. I agree. I fear inviting the Nazis in to help against the Soviets would be like infecting yourself with bubonic plague to counter a dose of pneumonia. If Hitler gets his forces into Poland, even if invited in as an ally I can't see him leaving. No way this can end well for Poland. |
|
lordroel
Administrator
Posts: 67,973
Likes: 49,378
|
Post by lordroel on Nov 5, 2017 12:04:04 GMT
Poland i would think and the Baltic's. I agree. I fear inviting the Nazis in to help against the Soviets would be like infecting yourself with bubonic plague to counter a dose of pneumonia. If Hitler gets his forces into Poland, even if invited in as an ally I can't see him leaving. No way this can end well for Poland. Well the United kingdom did not declare war against the Soviet Union when it took their halve of Poland in 1939 and later took control of the Baltic countries in OTL, so i think also, once the Germans have entered into Poland, they will be difficult to get out. |
|
Suspect they probably wouldn't do so at 1st as facing only one attacker and with the condition of the Red Army in 1939 they could probably hold for a while, while Germany is likely to be very busy in France. Also I think Poland and Romania had a mutual defence pact against the Soviets which might have been activated in this case. However I think ultimately the Poles would have to call in the Germans! Or possibly if France falls quickly some sort of peace is patched up, with Stalin getting parts of eastern Poland but the situation is likely to be very unstable.