eurofed
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Post by eurofed on Sept 2, 2017 19:34:05 GMT
Sorry, a question. "Bronze swords" - engineering products of the Roman Empire? I'm not really sure what you are meaning here, since TTL Roman Empire is more advanced than Bronze Age civilizations to begin with. Even before the PoD at the beginning of the Common Era, it was a cutting-edge and sophisticated Iron Age civilization. After that it never declines, gradually evolves into a proto-market economy and highly urbanized High/Late Middle Ages & Islamic Golden Age civilization with no manorialism or feudalism, eventually it matures into an Early Modern global empire just as dynamic as and much more cohesive than OTL Europe, and shows no sign of slowing down its eventual progress into industrialization and beyond. As a large number of other Old World and New World polities they conquer, colonize, and assimilate in their progress to modern superpower can testify, they eat Bronze and Iron Age cultures alive. Only the Chinese and the Indians got a real chance of holding them back, and various factors unrelated to the technological, organizational, and resource gap make them leave half of Africa largely alone.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Sept 2, 2017 19:39:03 GMT
Would the Praetorian Guard still be a factor, as they where known to change emperors. and build a parallel guard corps You mean a second elite unit that can counter the Praetorian Guard.
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eurofed
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Post by eurofed on Sept 2, 2017 19:43:56 GMT
and build a parallel guard corps You mean a second elite unit that can counter the Praetorian Guard. Exactly. It's the "Legio I Italica". It works as a counterbalance for the Pretorian Guard pretty much like the professional bureaucracy works as a foil to the army at large. And vice versa, of course.
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johnro
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Post by johnro on Sept 2, 2017 19:47:43 GMT
Sorry, a question. "Bronze swords" - engineering products of the Roman Empire? I'm not really sure what you are meaning here, . information for thinking ... How can anyone kill with a "bronze sword"? There are also "bronze razors". It's not funny ! !! This is serious, this is "history"! Want to shave with a bronze shaver?
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Sept 2, 2017 19:48:38 GMT
You mean a second elite unit that can counter the Praetorian Guard. Exactly. It's the "Legio I Italica". It works as a counterbalance for the Pretorian Guard pretty much like the professional bureaucracy works as a foil to the army at large. And vice versa, of course. Also i wonder would Roman concrete see early reinforced concrete as with no fall of Rome the making of Roman concrete is not forgotten like OTL after when the use of cement gradually returned.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Sept 2, 2017 19:49:36 GMT
I'm not really sure what you are meaning here, . information for thinking ... How can anyone kill with a "bronze sword"? There are also "bronze razors". It's not funny ! !! This is serious, this is "history"! Want to shave with a bronze shaver? Okay what has this to do whith this thread and also i ask you, normal sentences.
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eurofed
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Post by eurofed on Sept 2, 2017 21:22:22 GMT
Exactly. It's the "Legio I Italica". It works as a counterbalance for the Pretorian Guard pretty much like the professional bureaucracy works as a foil to the army at large. And vice versa, of course. Also i wonder would Roman concrete see early reinforced concrete as with no fall of Rome the making of Roman concrete is not forgotten like OTL after when the use of cement gradually returned. Very much so. ITTL Europe-plus loses nothing of the technological, cultural, and socio-economic achievements of Greco-Roman civilization at its apex and doesn't have to reinvent them nor crawl itself out of the pit of manorialism and feudalism for the better part of a millennium, nor it suffers two millennia of fratricidal wars and the Arab world remains a resource rather than a threat. It keeps all of them and can keep building on them and integrating with new insights that were in its potential and ideas of Asiatic civilizations being shared over a fully-functional Silk Road. Therefore, its natural evolutionary pattern in these circumstances seems a direct jump from Roman Principate to a combo of High Middle Ages & Islamic Golden Age with no manorialism, feudalism, or division of Europe and the Med, then Renaissance, and eventually industrialization, only a half millennium or so earlier. Of course, the sophisticated Asiatic civilizations stand to gain as much as Roman Europe-plus from the Silk Road proto-globalization circuit. If Rome can get early efficient access to Hindu mathematics and the Four Chinese Inventions, China and India can get Roman concrete and engineering just as easily. This is one reason why I expect success of Rome likely boosts Chinese East Asia into being the superpower twin of Roman Europe-plus. The outcome of India is critically reliant on whether different circumstances in the rest of Eurasia can drive it to political unity in time to avoid being swallowed by the Romans when they achieve global reach. If it does, it can certainly become the third superpower. If not, Roman Europe-plus can certainly do what the Muslims and the British did, only with much better chances of lasting assimilation. If Rome remains strong and absorbs all of Europe and the Med, Persia doesn't stand a chance in the long term. The Romans shall eventually harness enough resources from their empire to eat them alive. Now if Persia could somehow achieve a fusion with India, it would be another matter entirely.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Sept 3, 2017 7:01:44 GMT
Also i wonder would Roman concrete see early reinforced concrete as with no fall of Rome the making of Roman concrete is not forgotten like OTL after when the use of cement gradually returned. Very much so. ITTL Europe-plus loses nothing of the technological, cultural, and socio-economic achievements of Greco-Roman civilization at its apex and doesn't have to reinvent them nor crawl itself out of the pit of manorialism and feudalism for the better part of a millennium, nor it suffers two millennia of fratricidal wars and the Arab world remains a resource rather than a threat. It keeps all of them and can keep building on them and integrating with new insights that were in its potential and ideas of Asiatic civilizations being shared over a fully-functional Silk Road. Therefore, its natural evolutionary pattern in these circumstances seems a direct jump from Roman Principate to a combo of High Middle Ages & Islamic Golden Age with no manorialism, feudalism, or division of Europe and the Med, then Renaissance, and eventually industrialization, only a half millennium or so earlier. Of course, the sophisticated Asiatic civilizations stand to gain as much as Roman Europe-plus from the Silk Road proto-globalization circuit. If Rome can get early efficient access to Hindu mathematics and the Four Chinese Inventions, China and India can get Roman concrete and engineering just as easily. This is one reason why I expect success of Rome likely boosts Chinese East Asia into being the superpower twin of Roman Europe-plus. The outcome of India is critically reliant on whether different circumstances in the rest of Eurasia can drive it to political unity in time to avoid being swallowed by the Romans when they achieve global reach. If it does, it can certainly become the third superpower. If not, Roman Europe-plus can certainly do what the Muslims and the British did, only with much better chances of lasting assimilation. If Rome remains strong and absorbs all of Europe and the Med, Persia doesn't stand a chance in the long term. The Romans shall eventually harness enough resources from their empire to eat them alive. Now if Persia could somehow achieve a fusion with India, it would be another matter entirely. I think if Rome does not fall as in OTL there might be more things they can advance with as they do not forget it.
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eurofed
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Post by eurofed on Sept 3, 2017 11:15:22 GMT
As promised, the main successful Rome TL I was revising is now posted. Go and enjoy it, most issues discussed in this thread are addressed there to the best of my ability.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Sept 3, 2017 11:18:36 GMT
As promised, the main successful Rome TL I was revising is now posted. Go and enjoy it, most issues discussed in this thread are addressed there to the best of my ability. Thanks for you effort in answering questions.
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eurofed
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Post by eurofed on Sept 3, 2017 11:30:37 GMT
As promised, the main successful Rome TL I was revising is now posted. Go and enjoy it, most issues discussed in this thread are addressed there to the best of my ability. Thanks for you effort in answering questions. It is always a pleasure since your questions and arguments are always constructive, kind, and helpful. Feel free to make more now that you have the entire ATL frame of reference I was relying upon for my answers. I may even post the modern Rome snapshot as an appendix to the main TL in the near future if I can revise it to my satisfaction.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Sept 3, 2017 11:35:37 GMT
Thanks for you effort in answering questions. It is always a pleasure since your questions and arguments are always constructive, kind, and helpful. Feel free to make more now that you have the entire ATL frame of reference I was relying upon for my answers. I may even post the modern Rome snapshot as an appendix to the main TL in the near future if I can revise it to my satisfaction. Will do it as soon as i have manged to go true the timeline.
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