futurist
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Post by futurist on Aug 26, 2016 22:59:24 GMT
What if Russia would have helped Hungary win its independence (in exchange for having Hungary become a Russian vassal state afterwards, of course) in 1848-1849?
For the record, the reason for this is that Russia would conclude that it is more in its own interests to weaken Austria and to have a Hungarian vassal state than to keep Austria intact. Plus, having a Hungarian vassal state would certainly give Russia a better strategic position in any future war with the Ottoman Empire.
Also, for the record, I would think that Russia would outright annex Galicia in this TL while separating Slovakia from Hungary and creating a separate Slovak puppet state afterwards. In turn, this would result in the rise of Ukrainian nationalism being reduced--perhaps significant reduced--and delayed; after all, as far as I know, in our TL, Ukrainian nationalism was allowed to develop and flourish in Galicia back when it was under Austrian rule. In addition to this, the large ethnic Romanian population in Transylvania would certainly eventually become a running and festering sore for Hungary and would thus very likely be used by Russia to put additional pressure on Hungary to "toe Moscow's line" in the future.
Anyway, any thoughts on all of this?
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futurist
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Post by futurist on Aug 26, 2016 23:01:49 GMT
Also, I suppose that Russia might allow Prussia to annex the northern part of the territory that was later known as the Sudetenland in our TL. After all, that territory was certainly *overwhelmingly* ethnically German.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Aug 27, 2016 8:02:35 GMT
What if Russia would have helped Hungary win its independence (in exchange for having Hungary become a Russian vassal state afterwards, of course) in 1848-1849? For the record, the reason for this is that Russia would conclude that it is more in its own interests to weaken Austria and to have a Hungarian vassal state than to keep Austria intact. Plus, having a Hungarian vassal state would certainly give Russia a better strategic position in any future war with the Ottoman Empire. Also, for the record, I would think that Russia would outright annex Galicia in this TL while separating Slovakia from Hungary and creating a separate Slovak puppet state afterwards. In turn, this would result in the rise of Ukrainian nationalism being reduced--perhaps significant reduced--and delayed; after all, as far as I know, in our TL, Ukrainian nationalism was allowed to develop and flourish in Galicia back when it was under Austrian rule. In addition to this, the large ethnic Romanian population in Transylvania would certainly eventually become a running and festering sore for Hungary and would thus very likely be used by Russia to put additional pressure on Hungary to "toe Moscow's line" in the future. Anyway, any thoughts on all of this? Well one effect of Russian controlled Hungary is no creation of the Austria-Hungary empire in 1867. |
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cornelis
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Post by cornelis on Aug 27, 2016 8:43:16 GMT
How do you see the institutional organization of the newly independent Hungary ? The Russians will not like a republic, but the Hungarians have no local candidate to kingship.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Aug 27, 2016 8:45:29 GMT
How do you see the institutional organization of the newly independent Hungary ? The Russians will not like a republic, but the Hungarians have no local candidate to kingship. Could they not install one, many countries in that time period who did not have a monarchy imported one from a different country. |
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cornelis
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Post by cornelis on Aug 27, 2016 9:10:51 GMT
These countries (Belgium, Greece, Balkan States) were newly created. Hungary is a multi-secular kingdom, with a clear inheritance line : dethroning the Habsburgs means cutting itself from this legitimacy. A proclamation of the Will of the People is the logic counter-argument, but it will not please the Russians to see an ally created on such godless foundations...
If the Hungarians/Russians chose a King, it could bring other wars (remember Franco-Prussian War) : a German will not please the French and the British, a Russian means religious problems, an Austrian is out of question. A Two-Sicilies Bourbon, maybe. Insignifiant on the greater scale, catholic, conservative, but with a distant connection to Hungary.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Aug 27, 2016 9:17:16 GMT
These countries (Belgium, Greece, Balkan States) were newly created. Hungary is a multi-secular kingdom, with a clear inheritance line : dethroning the Habsburgs means cutting itself from this legitimacy. A proclamation of the Will of the People is the logic counter-argument, but it will not please the Russians to see an ally created on such godless foundations... If the Hungarians/Russians chose a King, it could bring other wars (remember Franco-Prussian War) : a German will not please the French and the British, a Russian means religious problems, an Austrian is out of question. A Two-Sicilies Bourbon, maybe. Insignifiant on the greater scale, catholic, conservative, but with a distant connection to Hungary. You mean a Austria-Russian War perhaps, with Austria backed by Prussia. |
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