lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jul 26, 2016 13:44:23 GMT
And if the Japanese take over i can say that many Philippine people will start a second independence war. Filipino history is unfortunate in that regard. It will not help them, the Japanese are not going to be so nice to them, and this will go on until the 1940s when the Pacific War breaks out, unless there is a giant oil field located in the Philippines i do not know about. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jul 26, 2016 13:52:08 GMT
Possibly,even probably. However if the Filipinoes have had a rough time under the Germans and with a Japanese liberation in 1914 coupled with some elements of Pan-Asianism Japan it might be that Japan takes a different path and stays pretty much a democracy that looks towards the western ones as their example you might have a much better relationship between the two nations. [As well as between Japan and the bulk of its neighbours ].
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Post by lordroel on Jul 26, 2016 13:56:54 GMT
Possibly,even probably. However if the Filipinoes have had a rough time under the Germans and with a Japanese liberation in 1914 coupled with some elements of Pan-Asianism Japan it might be that Japan takes a different path and stays pretty much a democracy that looks towards the western ones as their example you might have a much better relationship between the two nations. [As well as between Japan and the bulk of its neighbours ]. Why do you think that if Japan after having taken over the Philippines remains a democracy, it could also be the reverse and that the takeover of the Philippines result in a much earlier militaristic Japan who sees Asia as its domain. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jul 26, 2016 14:51:51 GMT
Possibly,even probably. However if the Filipinoes have had a rough time under the Germans and with a Japanese liberation in 1914 coupled with some elements of Pan-Asianism Japan it might be that Japan takes a different path and stays pretty much a democracy that looks towards the western ones as their example you might have a much better relationship between the two nations. [As well as between Japan and the bulk of its neighbours ]. Why do you think that if Japan after having taken over the Philippines remains a democracy, it could also be the reverse and that the takeover of the Philippines result in a much earlier militaristic Japan who sees Asia as its domain. It might do so but if their welcomed as liberators after defeating a brutal German occupation [say] there should be a decent amount of good feeling between the two groups. More to the point would be if the estrangement of Japan from the democractic west doesn't occur but I would say a welcome in the Philippines and the strengthening of the idea of Japan as the protector of other Asian nations might push them more into the other direction. Which in the longer run might make them even more hostile to western colonisation in east Asia so there could be a source of conflict there. [Although ironically since the US is deprived of its main Asian colony in TTL relations between an anti-imperialist Japan and the US might be reasonably good]. If Japan became autocratic earlier as a result of occupying the Philippines its likely to lead to a long and bloody war in the Philippines and also worsening relations with some western powers earlier. Most likely Britain and the US, epecially if the latter thinks its defeat of the Spanish in 1898 means it still have an 'interest' in the islands. |
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Jul 26, 2016 14:57:27 GMT
Why do you think that if Japan after having taken over the Philippines remains a democracy, it could also be the reverse and that the takeover of the Philippines result in a much earlier militaristic Japan who sees Asia as its domain. It might do so but if their welcomed as liberators after defeating a brutal German occupation [say] there should be a decent amount of good feeling between the two groups. More to the point would be if the estrangement of Japan from the democractic west doesn't occur but I would say a welcome in the Philippines and the strengthening of the idea of Japan as the protector of other Asian nations might push them more into the other direction. Which in the longer run might make them even more hostile to western colonisation in east Asia so there could be a source of conflict there. [Although ironically since the US is deprived of its main Asian colony in TTL relations between an anti-imperialist Japan and the US might be reasonably good]. If Japan became autocratic earlier as a result of occupying the Philippines its likely to lead to a long and bloody war in the Philippines and also worsening relations with some western powers earlier. Most likely Britain and the US, epecially if the latter thinks its defeat of the Spanish in 1898 means it still have an 'interest' in the islands. The article says the following: Filipino reformers admired all things German from its culture down to its industries. In fact, many of them have made Germany their home during their long exile in Europe and went on to the point of hoping that fellow Filipinos would imitate the German work ethic, efficiency, and frugality. Rizal even raised a German flag in his hometown. The idea of Philippines becoming a German colony would probably be welcome since most Filipino elites have a positive image for this rapidly progressive and modern European nation.
So how does the Germans running the Philippines turn into a brutal German occupation, the Philippines could turn out as a much bigger version of the Marianas with German education and health care. |
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spanishspy
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Post by spanishspy on Jul 26, 2016 15:59:02 GMT
It might do so but if their welcomed as liberators after defeating a brutal German occupation [say] there should be a decent amount of good feeling between the two groups. More to the point would be if the estrangement of Japan from the democractic west doesn't occur but I would say a welcome in the Philippines and the strengthening of the idea of Japan as the protector of other Asian nations might push them more into the other direction. Which in the longer run might make them even more hostile to western colonisation in east Asia so there could be a source of conflict there. [Although ironically since the US is deprived of its main Asian colony in TTL relations between an anti-imperialist Japan and the US might be reasonably good]. If Japan became autocratic earlier as a result of occupying the Philippines its likely to lead to a long and bloody war in the Philippines and also worsening relations with some western powers earlier. Most likely Britain and the US, epecially if the latter thinks its defeat of the Spanish in 1898 means it still have an 'interest' in the islands. The article says the following: Filipino reformers admired all things German from its culture down to its industries. In fact, many of them have made Germany their home during their long exile in Europe and went on to the point of hoping that fellow Filipinos would imitate the German work ethic, efficiency, and frugality. Rizal even raised a German flag in his hometown. The idea of Philippines becoming a German colony would probably be welcome since most Filipino elites have a positive image for this rapidly progressive and modern European nation.
So how does the Germans running the Philippines turn into a brutal German occupation, the Philippines could turn out as a much bigger version of the Marianas with German education and health care. Any dissent, though, would be crushed brutally and without mercy, as they did with the Herero. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Jul 26, 2016 19:22:38 GMT
The article says the following: Filipino reformers admired all things German from its culture down to its industries. In fact, many of them have made Germany their home during their long exile in Europe and went on to the point of hoping that fellow Filipinos would imitate the German work ethic, efficiency, and frugality. Rizal even raised a German flag in his hometown. The idea of Philippines becoming a German colony would probably be welcome since most Filipino elites have a positive image for this rapidly progressive and modern European nation.
So how does the Germans running the Philippines turn into a brutal German occupation, the Philippines could turn out as a much bigger version of the Marianas with German education and health care. Any dissent, though, would be crushed brutally and without mercy, as they did with the Herero. That would be the thing. It could go either way. Would Filipino respect for Germany and its culture exceed their desire for real independence and self-government? Would Germany realise its new colony would be a lot more cost efficient if a large amount of self-government is allowed and not too much imposed by Berlin? Possibly would the Germans agree to to appointing native Filipinos to key role in government? If the Philippines were decently treated and German rule proved popular you could see a really tough fight against any Japanese invasion and prolonged resistance which would poison relations between the islanders and their new rulers. Alternatively if the Germans have become oppressive and faced bitter resistance than the Japanese in 1914 could well be welcomed as liberators and a good relationship with Japan develop. |
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spanishspy
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Post by spanishspy on Jul 27, 2016 14:01:44 GMT
Any dissent, though, would be crushed brutally and without mercy, as they did with the Herero. That would be the thing. It could go either way. Would Filipino respect for Germany and its culture exceed their desire for real independence and self-government? Would Germany realise its new colony would be a lot more cost efficient if a large amount of self-government is allowed and not too much imposed by Berlin? Possibly would the Germans agree to to appointing native Filipinos to key role in government? If the Philippines were decently treated and German rule proved popular you could see a really tough fight against any Japanese invasion and prolonged resistance which would poison relations between the islanders and their new rulers. Alternatively if the Germans have become oppressive and faced bitter resistance than the Japanese in 1914 could well be welcomed as liberators and a good relationship with Japan develop. It all depends on whether the Germans swindle the Philippines out of Independence like the US did, and wage a war as brutal as the Philippine-American War to keep it. My apologies if I come off as defensive of the Philippines here; I'm half Filipino so I have a bias. |
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Post by lordroel on Jul 27, 2016 14:08:17 GMT
That would be the thing. It could go either way. Would Filipino respect for Germany and its culture exceed their desire for real independence and self-government? Would Germany realise its new colony would be a lot more cost efficient if a large amount of self-government is allowed and not too much imposed by Berlin? Possibly would the Germans agree to to appointing native Filipinos to key role in government? If the Philippines were decently treated and German rule proved popular you could see a really tough fight against any Japanese invasion and prolonged resistance which would poison relations between the islanders and their new rulers. Alternatively if the Germans have become oppressive and faced bitter resistance than the Japanese in 1914 could well be welcomed as liberators and a good relationship with Japan develop. It all depends on whether the Germans swindle the Philippines out of Independence like the US did, and wage a war as brutal as the Philippine-American War to keep it. My apologies if I come off as defensive of the Philippines here; I'm half Filipino so I have a bias. No apologizes needed, but i do feel dad if the Philippines come under the control of Japan, we all know about how they conducted them self in Korea and Taiwan. |
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Post by stevep on Jul 27, 2016 16:12:37 GMT
It all depends on whether the Germans swindle the Philippines out of Independence like the US did, and wage a war as brutal as the Philippine-American War to keep it. My apologies if I come off as defensive of the Philippines here; I'm half Filipino so I have a bias. No apologizes needed, but i do feel dad if the Philippines come under the control of Japan, we all know about how they conducted them self in Korea and Taiwan. Actually, while their behaviour in Korea was brutal and replusive, especially from ~1930, I have read they were not too bad in Taiwan and fairly popular there. |
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Post by lordroel on Jul 27, 2016 16:14:58 GMT
No apologizes needed, but i do feel dad if the Philippines come under the control of Japan, we all know about how they conducted them self in Korea and Taiwan. Actually, while their behaviour in Korea was brutal and replusive, especially from ~1930, I have read they were not too bad in Taiwan and fairly popular there. So it could go either way, but if the Philippine people start a new independence war i will think that people living in Japanese controlled Korea are better of than those living in Japanese controlled Philippines. |
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Post by spanishspy on Jul 27, 2016 16:22:09 GMT
Actually, while their behaviour in Korea was brutal and replusive, especially from ~1930, I have read they were not too bad in Taiwan and fairly popular there. So it could go either way, but if the Philippine people start a new independence war i will think that people living in Japanese controlled Korea are better of than those living in Japanese controlled Philippines. That seems likely - during WWII, it was Korean troops in Japanese service that did many bad things to Filipinos; the latter were the only people below the former. |
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Post by lordroel on Jul 27, 2016 16:23:43 GMT
So it could go either way, but if the Philippine people start a new independence war i will think that people living in Japanese controlled Korea are better of than those living in Japanese controlled Philippines. That seems likely - during WWII, it was Korean troops in Japanese service that did many bad things to Filipinos; the latter were the only people below the former. So would the Philippines do the same to lets say those living in Occupied Netherlands East Indies. |
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Post by spanishspy on Jul 27, 2016 16:24:22 GMT
That seems likely - during WWII, it was Korean troops in Japanese service that did many bad things to Filipinos; the latter were the only people below the former. So would the Philippines do the same to lets say those living in Occupied Netherlands East Indies. I doubt it; they were both seen as practically subhuman by the Japanese. |
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Post by lordroel on Jul 27, 2016 16:26:29 GMT
So would the Philippines do the same to lets say those living in Occupied Netherlands East Indies. I doubt it; they were both seen as practically subhuman by the Japanese. But 40 years of being part of the Empire of Japan might change that, or do you think the Japanese will treat the people of the Philippines worse than the people of Japanese Korea. |
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