lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Oct 16, 2016 7:29:07 GMT
The US (historically) raised 528,000 regulars and long-service volunteers in 1861; in 1862, there were calls in the summer of 1862 for another 300,000 long-service (36 month) USVs and 300,000 shot-service (9-month) USVs - the numbers that came forward were 420,000 36 months enlistments and 86,000 nine month enlistments. These numbers were separate from the various "local" forces (federal funding but geographic limits) which included the (historical) 3,000+ IHGs, the ~10,000 Missouri state troops, etc. that were raised beginning in 1862, much less the state troops raised on state account the same year and afterwards. The above numbers don't include the USCTs and their predecessors, raised (officially or not) beginning in 1862; about 50 percent of the 180,000 or so raised historically were enlisted in US states and territories that would have been in US hands in BROS, so call it ~90,000. The above also does not include the ~6,000 or so USVs raised on federal account from ex-rebels (historically) beginning in 1864, much less any USVs raised in 1863-65. The US numbers in BROS are basically historical, as follows: 1. 528,000 USV and regulars, as of December, 1861, historically; 2. 420,000 USV and regulars raised in response to the (historical) call in summer, 1862, but moved forward in BROS to the winter-spring of 1862 because of the changed strategic situation; 3. ~100,000+ federally funded state troops raised for local defense, in contested theaters (Missouri) and the US coastal states for harbor defense; same reason as 2; 4. ~45,000-90,000 US "Colored" Volunteers (by the states in free states as USVs, as "federal" USVs in slave states); same reason as 2) 5. ~10,000 "auxiliary" USVs (Indians, Canadians, ex-rebels) raised as such for the same reason as 2; That totals (roughly) 1.1 million men and some change. Best, I would toughed that the Union would raise more personal for the navy as they would have to fight the Royal Navy. |
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stevep
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Post by stevep on Oct 16, 2016 20:12:44 GMT
Three comments.
a) The reference to Britain being behind the curve in terms of enlisting a mass army would be true if we were comparing like with like. However whereas the US had a tiny regular army at the start of the conflict Britain already had a substantial one, while a lot of recent experience. Even if the US raised the numbers mentioned this will take time training and equipping while Britain can be shipping regulars westwards to defend Canada and put pressure on the US before this. Plus that the US as OTL will have to commit most of its forces against the Confederacy, which will be more powerful in this scenario.
b) The author also vastly underestimates the potential for coastal attacks by the RN. True four light river gunboats were lost in the poorly organised 2nd battle of the Taku Forts, possibly in part because of overconfidence after the earlier capture of the forts. However that's a world of difference from the ironclad warships and floating batteries that the RN can active and also quickly build more of. Manning coastal defences against such attacks is likely to be another strain on the US resources.
c) As mentioned in a previous private mail to the author how is this planned massive build-up affected by the economic problems and fiscal chaos caused by being at war with Britain and the resulting blockade?
Steve
PS On this point I must admit that having done some research on the size of the union recruiting the author is right about the number of recruits raised. [Although how quickly they become fully trained, equipped and competent for combat may be another question as I don't know how many of those troops were deployed in early 1862.] There is still the fact that Britain has a markedly higher starting base than the US and whether the US could follow the same course in the event of war with the US over the Trent.
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tfsmith121
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War is the remedy our enemies have chosen
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Post by tfsmith121 on Oct 31, 2016 2:03:29 GMT
Have now posted Part 4 of Chapter 9, also in September, 1862; the battle of Berthierville progresses, with skirmishing between Kearny's cavalry division and Paget's, and Doyle's 3rd Division washes up against the main line of the XII Corps and is stopped, absent yet another royal prince. Meanwhile, Sherman's XV Corps marches on to its destiny... warships1discussionboards.yuku.com/topic/32621?page=12Enjoy. |
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tfsmith121
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War is the remedy our enemies have chosen
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Post by tfsmith121 on Oct 31, 2016 2:11:44 GMT
The USN's personnel strength rose (historically) from 9,942 in 1860 to 27,881 in 1861 to 33,454 in 1862 to a high point of 58,296 in 1865... presumably that level of expansion would come more quickly in a BROS situation...
Best,
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Oct 31, 2016 3:56:44 GMT
The USN's personnel strength rose (historically) from 9,942 in 1860 to 27,881 in 1861 to 33,454 in 1862 to a high point of 58,296 in 1865... presumably that level of expansion would come more quickly in a BROS situation... Best, That will hurt the Union army expansion who has to fight a two front war. |
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tfsmith121
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Post by tfsmith121 on Nov 6, 2016 2:30:36 GMT
Not following you here; the personnel were separate.
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Nov 6, 2016 8:22:07 GMT
Not following you here; the personnel were separate. Sorry what i meant is unlike in OTL they have to fight the British in Canada and the Rebels in the South, that will stretch their manpower a lot and i would think the Union has to make choices who they feel is a bigger threat to them. |
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tfsmith121
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War is the remedy our enemies have chosen
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Post by tfsmith121 on Nov 7, 2016 3:47:26 GMT
Understood. The issue of strategy - defending on one front and attacking on another,for example - is one thing; but mobilization is another. In BROS, the US mobilization is essentially as historical, except the time frame is sped up somewhat, given the differing strategic situation. Which fronts the troops and sailors are deployed to, however, is my take on the obvious strategies for the US (and UK, and rebels, etc.) in such a situation. Speaking of which, Hhve now posted Part 5 of Chapter 9, in which various and sundry demonstrate their capabilities at riverine warfare and the problems inherent in war between neighbors, and with various armed elements being involved. Collinson's and Creagh's St. Lawrence squadron (RN) face off against Stringham's and de Joinville's opposite numbers (USN and CV). Mayhem ensues, and a new element joins the combat equation... linkEnjoy. Best, |
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lordroel
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Post by lordroel on Nov 7, 2016 3:54:00 GMT
Speaking of which, Hhve now posted Part 5 of Chapter 9, in which various and sundry demonstrate their capabilities at riverine warfare and the problems inherent in war between neighbors, and with various armed elements being involved. Collinson's and Creagh's St. Lawrence squadron (RN) face off against Stringham's and de Joinville's opposite numbers (USN and CV). Mayhem ensues, and a new element joins the combat equation... linkEnjoy. Another good chapter to a already good alternate civil war. |
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